AACOMAS 2009 Matriculant Profile

[FutureCTDoc]

You are right what you are saying is incredibly ignorant. Your past background easily affects your study habits in the present.



Discrimination on religion isn't nearly the same as discrimination based on race. And what was the extent of your discrimination? And how does it affect the quality of the physician pool? The avg AA stats are 1-2 points lower than many D.O schools. 20 years ago the stats for M.D were a lot lower than they are today. Guess what they are whites who get into D.O and M.D schools with 21s(while it being very few for M.D) and they may have come from a bad background so they deserve a shot.

I disagree that discrimination based on religion is not worse than based on race. The Holocaust was religiously motivated, the killing of Kurds by Saddam, the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in the Balkans were all based on religion. The fact that I've been ridiculed, discriminated against because I am a Jew doesn't make it any less valid than if I dealt with the same affronts because of my skin tone. Discrimination is discrimination.

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[ncguy2005]

You are right what you are saying is incredibly ignorant. Your past background easily affects your study habits in the present.



Discrimination on religion isn't nearly the same as discrimination based on race. And what was the extent of your discrimination? And how does it affect the quality of the physician pool? The avg AA stats are 1-2 points lower than many D.O schools. 20 years ago the stats for M.D were a lot lower than they are today. Guess what they are whites who get into D.O and M.D schools with 21s(while it being very few for M.D) and they may have come from a bad background so they deserve a shot.

I had zero study habits in high school (wasn't a straight A student) and did just fine in college. I believe that study habits can be learned at any point, and I believe that people from all walks of life are capable of doing anything depending on how bad they want something.

However, its futile to argue with someone like you because you're one of the thousands on here who can't bend a little and try to respectfully understand someone else's point of view.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I had zero study habits in high school (wasn't a straight A student) and did just fine in college. I believe that study habits can be learned at any point, and I believe that people from all walks of life are capable of doing anything depending on how bad they want something.

However, its futile to argue with someone like you because you're one of the thousands on here who can't bend a little and try to respectfully understand someone else's point of view.

I wasn't a good student in Highschool and did pretty well in College and I know plenty of people who did well in highschool flunk out of college. Anecedotal evidence doesn't count for much. Also Highschool is pretty easy for the most part one doesn't have to study a lot.

Numerous studies have shown that the cultural environment one grows up in and the school system they go to affects future success in college and beyond.

I disagree that discrimination based on religion is not worse than based on race. The Holocaust was religiously motivated, the killing of Kurds by Saddam, the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in the Balkans were all based on religion. The fact that I've been ridiculed, discriminated against because I am a Jew doesn't make it any less valid than if I dealt with the same affronts because of my skin tone. Discrimination is discrimination.

The same can be said about race. Those groups that were severely persecuted deserve help. Also in America the discrimination against Jews is not nearly the same as it is with other minority groups. And I still don't see how AA's making up 3% of the prestigious D.O position lowers the quality of physicians.

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I wasn't a good student in Highschool and did pretty well in College and I know plenty of people who did well in highschool flunk out of college. Anecedotal evidence doesn't count for much. Also Highschool is pretty easy for the most part one doesn't have to study a lot.

Numerous studies have shown that the cultural environment one grows up in and the school system they go to affects future success in college and beyond.



The same can be said about race. Those groups that were severely persecuted deserve help. Also in America the discrimination against Jews is not nearly the same as it is with other minority groups. And I still don't see how AA's making up 3% of the prestigious D.O position lowers the quality of physicians.

Please, tell me the difference as to discrimination against Jews versus other minority groups. Jews have been discriminated against in admissions at universities and medical schools, they've been lynched and are just as hated by Hate Groups as any other minority group. If race is your litmus test then, Asians are discriminated against as well, don't they deserve affirmative action? I find it ridiculous that despite discrimination, I was able to get into a BS/DO and yet others can't? I've been discriminated against and yet it hasn't stopped me. Why should others be stopped?

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Please, tell me the difference as to discrimination against Jews versus other minority groups. Jews have been discriminated against in admissions at universities and medical schools, they've been lynched and are just as hated by Hate Groups as any other minority group. If race is your litmus test then, Asians are discriminated against as well, don't they deserve affirmative action? I find it ridiculous that despite discrimination, I was able to get into a BS/DO and yet others can't? I've been discriminated against and yet it hasn't stopped me. Why should others be stopped?

I've been discriminated against and I've gotten a couple M.D acceptances with just avg M.D stats . Got a publication in Nature and averaging around 17 hours a semester while working 15-20 hours a week. But that is only for me I can't use my standard and say I got a 32 which means everyone can get it.

Empirical evidence shows that this is not the case. Also Jews and Asians deserve AA if they become underrepresented in a field due to racism. Is this wrong? I'm not so ignorant to assume that my accomplishments are entirely my own. While my parents are lower middle class they come from an environment that cherishes education. I also worked with a researcher which helped me Which is why me and my brothers are in the position we are in now.

Also just because you have been discriminated doesn't mean your discrimination is severe or even moderate. And you can't use yourself to compare the life of someone else and use the old Bootstraps argument.

"My dad was poor and he isn't now which means that all poor people are lazy and deserve their predicament." When the truth is that dad in question worked hard AND was given an opportunity to succeed.

And while Jews have faced persecution they do not face it at the same level as other URMs given that many Jews are doing pretty well.

 

[Slack3r]

Can I just give my 2 cents... I think that if we're going to eliminate segregation then we need to stop trying to differentiate between the races. We need to stop saying that Blacks bring this, or Asians that. But rather say that everyone can contribute something.

What your doing by saying that race "involves more than skin color" is essentially perpetuating the idea that there are differences between the races. I disagree. Then again, I'm from England which is about as homogeneous as you can get.

Reading comprehension fail?

 

[JaggerPlate]

From the 2009 matriculant profile to the Holocaust .... only on SDN.

 

[Kate Nash]

Reading comprehension fail?

Well I think it's obvious what you mean't when you said "diversity," just being able to dance ballet doesn't make it any easier for you to get into a medical school, being a URM does.

I'm sorry if that seems blunt, but I rather not dance around the truth.

 

[christina30]

Well I think it's obvious what you mean't when you said "diversity," just being able to dance ballet doesn't make it any easier for you to get into a medical school, being a URM does.

I'm sorry if that seems blunt, but I rather not dance around the truth.

Yeah, it's obvious what they meant.

Diversity - "diverseness: noticeable heterogeneity; many and different; "a diversity of possibilities"

Diversity/heterogeneity doesn't just apply to race or color.

 

[Slack3r]

Well I think it's obvious what you mean't when you said "diversity," just being able to dance ballet doesn't make it any easier for you to get into a medical school, being a URM does.

I'm sorry if that seems blunt, but I rather not dance around the truth.

RC fail, x2?

 

[elftown]

I don't know if anyone pointed this out but I thought it was interesting.

Mean MCAT Applicant / Matriculant (Difference)
White, Non-Hispanic: 25.86 / 26.24 (0.38)
Hispanic/Latino: 23.77 / 24.81 (1.04)
African American: 20.80 / 21.77 (0.97)
Native American: 21.66 / 25.75 (4.09)
Pacific Islander: 22.86 / 25.00 (2.14)
Asian: 25.83 / 26.74 (0.91)
Multiple Races: 25.49 / 26.34 (0.85)
Foreign: 25.54 / 27.31 (1.77)

Mean GPA Applicant / Matriculant (Difference)
White, Non-Hispanic: 3.44 / 3.50 (0.06)
Hispanic/Latino: 3.30 / 3.40 (0.10)
African American: 3.18 / 3.33 (0.15)
Native American: 3.27 / 3.61 (0.34)
Pacific Islander: 3.38 / 3.45 (0.07)
Asian: 3.37 / 3.45 (0.08)
Multiple Races: 3.34 / 3.42 (0.08)
Foreign: 3.44 / 3.54 (0.10)

http://www.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/FastFacts/2009%20Osteopathic%20Medical%20School%20Applicants%209-1-2009.pdf
http://www.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/Summaries/2009MatriculantSummary.pdf

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I don't know if anyone pointed this out but I thought it was interesting.

Mean MCAT Applicant / Matriculant (Difference)
White, Non-Hispanic: 25.86 / 26.24 (0.38)
Hispanic/Latino: 23.77 / 24.81 (1.04)
African American: 20.80 / 21.77 (0.97)
Native American: 21.66 / 25.75 (4.09)
Pacific Islander: 22.86 / 25.00 (2.14)
Asian: 25.83 / 26.74 (0.91)
Multiple Races: 25.49 / 26.34 (0.85)
Foreign: 25.54 / 27.31 (1.77)

Mean GPA Applicant / Matriculant (Difference)
White, Non-Hispanic: 3.44 / 3.50 (0.06)
Hispanic/Latino: 3.30 / 3.40 (0.10)
African American: 3.18 / 3.33 (0.15)
Native American: 3.27 / 3.61 (0.34)
Pacific Islander: 3.38 / 3.45 (0.07)
Asian: 3.37 / 3.45 (0.08)
Multiple Races: 3.34 / 3.42 (0.08)
Foreign: 3.44 / 3.54 (0.10)

http://www.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/FastFacts/2009%20Osteopathic%20Medical%20School%20Applicants%209-1-2009.pdf
http://www.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/Summaries/2009MatriculantSummary.pdf

If I recall correctly, there were very few Native Americans applying, it may just be an artifact.

 

[Kate Nash]

I don't know if anyone pointed this out but I thought it was interesting.

Mean MCAT Applicant / Matriculant (Difference)
White, Non-Hispanic: 25.86 / 26.24 (0.38)
Hispanic/Latino: 23.77 / 24.81 (1.04)
African American: 20.80 / 21.77 (0.97)
Native American: 21.66 / 25.75 (4.09)
Pacific Islander: 22.86 / 25.00 (2.14)
Asian: 25.83 / 26.74 (0.91)
Multiple Races: 25.49 / 26.34 (0.85)
Foreign: 25.54 / 27.31 (1.77)

Mean GPA Applicant / Matriculant (Difference)
White, Non-Hispanic: 3.44 / 3.50 (0.06)
Hispanic/Latino: 3.30 / 3.40 (0.10)
African American: 3.18 / 3.33 (0.15)
Native American: 3.27 / 3.61 (0.34)
Pacific Islander: 3.38 / 3.45 (0.07)
Asian: 3.37 / 3.45 (0.08)
Multiple Races: 3.34 / 3.42 (0.08)
Foreign: 3.44 / 3.54 (0.10)

http://www.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/FastFacts/2009%20Osteopathic%20Medical%20School%20Applicants%209-1-2009.pdf
http://www.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/Summaries/2009MatriculantSummary.pdf

Really? a 21 for African Americans for acceptance... Jeeze. Can those people even read? I know high schoolers who could score better in their sleep.

More evidence that colleges are putting race above qualifications. I thought Affirmative Action was about equally qualified canidates not, let's take anyone that's black/hispanic/mixed.

That's messed up.

 

[Slack3r]

Really? a 21 for African Americans for acceptance... Jeeze. Can those people even read? I know high schoolers who could score better in their sleep.

More evidence that colleges are putting race above qualifications. I thought Affirmative Action was about equally qualified canidates not, let's take anyone that's black/hispanic/mixed.

That's messed up.

Judging by your reading comprehension thus far in the thread...

 

[Kate Nash]

Judging by your reading comprehension thus far in the thread...

Great job. I make an argument, you attack me personally. Really?

 

[keithokc]

I was curious as to what people thought about the different in stats for applicants versus matriculants to MD schools. This is the AAMC link for their 2009 data and puerto ricans and african americans (23.7, 26.1 respectively) have the lowest MCAT and GPA for the group, but it still much higher than a 21 as given my ACOMAS. There is also a large difference between the applicants and those who matriculate of all races. No race responses and foreign matriculants have the highest MCAT (32.2 and 31.6).

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table19-mcatpgaraceeth09-web.pdf

 

[medschl hpeful]

I never said it doesn't exist, I simply made a statement that the fat nerdy white kid deals with the same (if not more) discrimination in many parts of the country today.

Also making a statement about me being a healthcare provider from your opinion of me on a message board is what I would call being ignorant

I found the discussion quite interesting until you actually thought a fat nerdy"white" guy experiences the same discrimination as African Americans. It is amazing to me how racially insensitive one can be when they sit at the top of the food chain, still believing that yes..... in 2010 racism does not exist. Asians, Indian Americans, and other "minorities" do not receive the same harsh treatment as African Americans. This spills over to business, education and alike. Research, as I am certain that we are all very intelligent individuals. Perhaps take a moment and walk a mile in some one Else's shoes before you begin to ride high and mighty. Affirmative action has been put into place, not to discriminate against, but to offer a more fair playground., since many, even today discriminate at every opportunity.
Standardize testing is created for the masses of people. It focuses on their learning patterns, behavior, and use of language. A good portion of "white" America come from a long line of college educated individuals. "Black" America is still in the phase where there are barely second generation college educated family members. This is relevant. So, affirmative action is not saying that your getting a "pass" necessarily. Its saying that this style of testing is not what a good portion of the African American population taking these types of exams are use to as far as language etc. The intellect is there!!!! make no mistake. Nothing includes all or even most. I am only speaking in general terms. There is so much more to "that" conversation.
It will take decades to create a time and a place where we are all treated equally, and stand in awe of our differences instead of disgust. It is not today and it wasn't in 1968. I'm glad that your world appears that way. It must be a beautiful place. I'm not saying your a bad person. I think that you have to truly live it to understand it, or just be a lot more open!

 

[FutureCTDoc]

I found the discussion quite interesting until you actually thought a fat nerdy"white" guy experiences the same discrimination as African Americans. It is amazing to me how racially insensitive one can be when they sit at the top of the food chain, still believing that yes..... in 2010 racism does not exist. Asians, Indian Americans, and other "minorities" do not receive the same harsh treatment as African Americans. This spills over to business, education and alike. Research, as I am certain that we are all very intelligent individuals. Perhaps take a moment and walk a mile in some one Else's shoes before you begin to ride high and mighty. Affirmative action has been put into place, not to discriminate against, but to offer a more fair playground., since many, even today discriminate at every opportunity.
Standardize testing is created for the masses of people. It focuses on their learning patterns, behavior, and use of language. A good portion of "white" America come from a long line of college educated individuals. "Black" America is still in the phase where there are barely second generation college educated family members. This is relevant. So, affirmative action is not saying that your getting a "pass" necessarily. Its saying that this style of testing is not what a good portion of the African American population taking these types of exams are use to as far as language etc. The intellect is there!!!! make no mistake. Nothing includes all or even most. I am only speaking in general terms. There is so much more to "that" conversation.
It will take decades to create a time and a place where we are all treated equally, and stand in awe of our differences instead of disgust. It is not today and it wasn't in 1968. I'm glad that your world appears that way. It must be a beautiful place. I'm not saying your a bad person. I think that you have to truly live it to understand it, or just be a lot more open!

You do recognize no one has cornered the market on being discriminated against. One of my friends from high school, who is asian was effectively shut out of his top choice schools despite being above their medians and having strong ECs. Was that discrimination? Up until the 1960s their were numerus clausus restricting Jews at the Ivy League. Was that discrimination? What makes African Americans more discriminated against than Native Americans? Have you ever been to a reservation? Native Americans face discrimination and have been effectively left out of the economic mainstream.
As to your standardized test questions, the MCAT and the SAT are designed to allow anyone of any background to answer them. You do recognize that there is a conscious effort to make the SAT more accesible?
Tell me why the fact that being second generation in college is terrible? Up until recently most people didn't go to college irrespective of race. My father was second generation, he got a MD from Jefferson Medical College, my mother got her RN and she was first generation. So you know a lot of White Americans are at the same phase, being second generation college educated. I'm not certain that has a huge effect on them.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

bla bla bla

😱😱 Wow it sure seems that you are discriminated against seeing as your friend didn't get into the top college he wanted and also your parents most likely having in the 75% of average earnings for Americans.

I agree fat white kids face the same discrimination as URMs...oh wait.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/cchr/pdf/race_report_web.pdf

Everything being equal White felons have a better call back for jobs than AA with equal stats and no felon record. Among men who did not have a high school diploma, unemployment levels in 2006 were 8.5% for whites but 18.8% for blacks. That same year, unemployment was 2.5% for white men with college degrees yet 5.1% for black men with college degrees.

AA's are getting into D.O school at 2%[/2] with MCAT around 1 or 2 points lower than schools such as LMU and Pikeville. Why is it so good to be URM!

 

[ShyRem]

ENOUGH.

Closing this mess of a thread. If you want to continue to argue about AA/URM, take it to sociopolitical. But this one is DONE.

 

[christina30]

You do recognize no one has cornered the market on being discriminated against. One of my friends from high school, who is asian was effectively shut out of his top choice schools despite being above their medians and having strong ECs. Was that discrimination? Up until the 1960s their were numerus clausus restricting Jews at the Ivy League. Was that discrimination? What makes African Americans more discriminated against than Native Americans? Have you ever been to a reservation? Native Americans face discrimination and have been effectively left out of the economic mainstream.
As to your standardized test questions, the MCAT and the SAT are designed to allow anyone of any background to answer them. You do recognize that there is a conscious effort to make the SAT more accesible?
Tell me why the fact that being second generation in college is terrible? Up until recently most people didn't go to college irrespective of race. My father was second generation, he got a MD from Jefferson Medical College, my mother got her RN and she was first generation. So you know a lot of White Americans are at the same phase, being second generation college educated. I'm not certain that has a huge effect on them.

This. Most people in this country born to middle class families are 1st or 2nd generation to go to college. Looking at my father's side of the family, I am FIRST GENERATION to attend college.

I'm a white Italian American from a working class family - so am I discriminated against because my brothers and I are the first to go to college? Maybe.

In case you didn't know, Italians and the Irish were vastly discriminated against when they first came to this country, but I guess you'd like to conveniently ignore that fact. Every TV show depicting Italian-Americans shows them as either a)mobsters or b)guidos - but that's not discrimination.

As for the fat, nerdy, white kid, I think you're all missing the damn point. Chubby nerds get picked on pretty fiercely as children - and that's still discrimination, whether you like it or not.

Almost everyone has faced discrimination at some point or another in their lives. Stop arguing about Jews vs. Blacks vs. Native Americans... it's pretty pointless.