AAMC poaching rules and how to proceed

[deleted956024]

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Ive heard that the aamc has changed the rules to allow students to be able to go to another school even after matriculating to one

I got my first med school acceptance to UMKC which starts in January. I’m happy that I got in but this was basically my last choice school due to a lot of reasons. I’ve had 2 other interviews so far and 2 more coming up. The ones I went to already won’t tell me anything for another month but I have to put down a deposit and accept the offer for this school much earlier than that.

I have a few questions and was hoping someone with more knowledge than me can answer them. If I accept the umkc offer and I end up getting accepted elsewhere before school starts, can I still take the other offer? Also, since a lot of schools are waiting until spring to release decisions, if I get in somewhere else then, can I still go to that other school? Would it be advisable to do that or stay put at umkc?

@Goro , @gyngyn , @Faha , @LizzyM @Med Ed

 

[Med Ed]

Ive heard that the aamc has changed the rules to allow students to be able to go to another school even after matriculating to one

I got my first med school acceptance to UMKC which starts in January. I’m happy that I got in but this was basically my last choice school due to a lot of reasons. I’ve had 2 other interviews so far and 2 more coming up. The ones I went to already won’t tell me anything for another month but I have to put down a deposit and accept the offer for this school much earlier than that.

I have a few questions and was hoping someone with more knowledge than me can answer them. If I accept the umkc offer and I end up getting accepted elsewhere before school starts, can I still take the other offer? Also, since a lot of schools are waiting until spring to release decisions, if I get in somewhere else then, can I still go to that other school? Would it be advisable to do that or stay put at umkc?

@Goro , @gyngyn , @Faha , @LizzyM @Med Ed

Accept the seat and put down a deposit. If you get a more desirable offer before January then you're home free.

If you do end up matriculating at UMKC, I personally would have to put some sort of time limit on long I could wait on other schools. Unless you're independently wealthy, pulling out of one school to attend another requires a fair amount of effort to reroute the financial aid. You may also be on the hook for some or all of a semester's tuition. You may have a lease you need to break. Etc.

 

[Goro]

Ive heard that the aamc has changed the rules to allow students to be able to go to another school even after matriculating to one

I got my first med school acceptance to UMKC which starts in January. I’m happy that I got in but this was basically my last choice school due to a lot of reasons. I’ve had 2 other interviews so far and 2 more coming up. The ones I went to already won’t tell me anything for another month but I have to put down a deposit and accept the offer for this school much earlier than that.

I have a few questions and was hoping someone with more knowledge than me can answer them. If I accept the umkc offer and I end up getting accepted elsewhere before school starts, can I still take the other offer? Also, since a lot of schools are waiting until spring to release decisions, if I get in somewhere else then, can I still go to that other school? Would it be advisable to do that or stay put at umkc?

@Goro , @gyngyn , @Faha , @LizzyM @Med Ed

Welcome to our world in the D O schools and what we have to deal with. We have lost students who matriculated who got an acceptance at the state MD School.

Turn about being fair play, I suppose now state has to worry about students getting poached by schools like, Wake or Keck or Creighton

 

[deleted956024]

Accept the seat and put down a deposit. If you get a more desirable offer before January then you're home free.

If you do end up matriculating at UMKC, I personally would have to put some sort of time limit on long I could wait on other schools. Unless you're independently wealthy, pulling out of one school to attend another requires a fair amount of effort to reroute the financial aid. You may also be on the hook for some or all of a semester's tuition. You may have a lease you need to break. Etc.

So there’s no penalty for dropping after signing the offer letter? Would I just email the school to tell them?

Ya it’s tough cause with the new rules, I’d imagine waitlist movement is gonna extend a while too. The White coat ceremony at this school isn’t until August anyway. I just don’t want to be in a situation where I’m stuck on a bunch of waitlists at the end

 

[deleted956024]

Welcome to our world in the D O schools and what we have to deal with. We have lost students who matriculated who got an acceptance at the state MD School.

Turn about being fair play, I suppose now state has to worry about students getting poached by schools like, Wake or Keck or Creighton

Oh that sounds really rough but isn’t that why there’s high non Refundable deposits? This school wants you to put down a $1000 which is less than many DOs to my knowledge but nothing to scoff at either

Poaching seems like a benefit to the applicants and a headache for adcoms

 

[deleted956024]

I am unsure, but I believe that once DOE money gets dispersed, you cant move it. In Fall term, this happens about Sept 15th.

Another wrinkle in this may make the entire poaching argument moot. While AAMC cant prohibit schools from poaching, the schools themselves can do so. Some schools have language in their matriculation agreement where you attest to not being currently matriculated in another medical school when beginning matriculation at “our” school. OP should tread carefully else when the music stops else they may not have a seat, literally

They told us we have to fill out the fafsa for both last year and this year (so 2 total). I don’t know when loan money is given out in the spring but I’m guessing it’s not until January? Is there a place to check on DOE requirements? I know some people have been able to transfer med schools mid year so that doesn’t sound like a strict requirement to me

Is the matriculation agreement different than the offer letter? The offer letter just says,
Congrats you were picked and gives us two bubbles to pick from:

- I accept the offer of admission to the UMKC M.D. program for the semester beginning in January 2019.

-I do NOT accept the offer of admission to the UMKC M.D. program for the semester beginning in January 2019.

And then we sign it

 

[Goro]

Poaching seems like a benefit to the applicants and a headache for adcoms

Correct on both accounts!

Keep in mind that MD schools cannot charge the large deposits that do schools can.

They're going to find some way around this you know

 

[deleted956024]

Correct on both accounts!

Keep in mind that MD schools cannot charge the large deposits that do schools can.

They're going to find some way around this you know

I wonder how this school is able to do so then? I’m supposed to pay $1000 non refundable fee to hold my spot

 

[precisiongraphic]

I wonder how this school is able to do so then? I’m supposed to pay $1000 non refundable fee to hold my spot

That wasn't supposed to happen. Interesting (not in a good way).

 

[Goro]

I wonder how this school is able to do so then? I’m supposed to pay $1000 non refundable fee to hold my spot

Just to clarify, UKMC has a $1000 deposit? My understanding of the MD schools is that AMCAS or LMCE rules forbid that.

If you do have to pay the deposit (as would any DO acceptee), consider it insurance, or an investment. You'll make it back as a doctor.

But congrats on the accept!
👍👍👍😍😍😍
Now go read this:

• Goro's Guide to Success in Medical School (2018 edition)

 

[Med Ed]

So there’s no penalty for dropping after signing the offer letter? Would I just email the school to tell them?

Responding to the offer letter means you accept the seat or reject the seat. It is not a binding contract. If someone gets 10 acceptances and wants to take them all then that person would accept 10 offers. Whittling down to one would come later in the cycle.

Ya it’s tough cause with the new rules, I’d imagine waitlist movement is gonna extend a while too. The White coat ceremony at this school isn’t until August anyway. I just don’t want to be in a situation where I’m stuck on a bunch of waitlists at the end

To be honest, the anti-poaching rule never had much bite, but when schools could see other acceptances they typically would not bother chasing someone who had already matriculated elsewhere. The yield would be low and it would just cause resentment.

 

[Med Ed]

I am unsure, but I believe that once DOE money gets dispersed, you cant move it. In Fall term, this happens about Sept 15th.

Another wrinkle in this may make the entire poaching argument moot. While AAMC cant prohibit schools from poaching, the schools themselves can do so. Some schools have language in their matriculation agreement where you attest to not being currently matriculated in another medical school when beginning matriculation at “our” school. OP should tread carefully else when the music stops else they may not have a seat, literally

You can pull the money back and redirect, but it's not easy.

This is a very tricky situation to navigate. If it were me, and I did not get another offer by January, I would withdraw from AMCAS and learn to love UMKC.

 

[deleted956024]

Just to clarify, UKMC has a $1000 deposit? My understanding of the MD schools is that AMCAS or LMCE rules forbid that.

If you do have to pay the deposit (as would any DO acceptee), consider it insurance, or an investment. You'll make it back as a doctor.

But congrats on the accept!
👍👍👍😍😍😍
Now go read this:

• Goro's Guide to Success in Medical School (2018 edition)

Yes. They ask you to pay it after signing the offer. I thought the LCME said the same but maybe not. It could also be due to this school being so off schedule

They gave me until mid November. I’m planning on holding off until the last possible date right now since it’s non refundable. Another school should Let me know something in the next few days so hopefully I’ll have some more certainty in my life

 

[deleted956024]

Responding to the offer letter means you accept the seat or reject the seat. It is not a binding contract. If someone gets 10 acceptances and wants to take them all then that person would accept 10 offers. Whittling down to one would come later in the cycle.



To be honest, the anti-poaching rule never had much bite, but when schools could see other acceptances they typically would not bother chasing someone who had already matriculated elsewhere. The yield would be low and it would just cause resentment.

Thanks for the info! I know traditionally April is the time that you have to whittle down to one acceptance but since this school starts super early I’m wondering if there’s a date like that in nov/dec

But now that the acceptance reports are gone, would poaching not be more common? Looking around, it seems like most people have a top choice that they would drop everything for to go to

You can pull the money back and redirect, but it's not easy.

This is a very tricky situation to navigate. If it were me, and I did not get another offer by January, I would withdraw from AMCAS and learn to love UMKC.

Would I have to contact the DOE? I’m hoping I won’t have to do it but planning for it anyway

Ya that’s probably what I’m gonna have to do. It sucks cause not all school will tell you something earlier than the spring

 

[deleted956024]

The April Deadline was for schools that began matriculation after June 1st I think. UMKC has never been covered by the rule as they have a different matriculation cycle. If I am not mistaken, because of this they never followed the previous AAMC guidelines. So they can require a non-refundable deposit

Just to add for future readers, this is why it is vital to fully research schools prior to applying and dangers in applying to a school you really dont want to attend. As the old saying goes: Exercise caution in fanciful expectation else receipt of such actuality can cause consternation or something like that

Does that mean the rest of the aamc guidelines also don’t apply to this school?

I agree. I’m also a reapplicant and that was one of my state schools so that’s a big reason why I applied. Back then, I just wanted to get in somewhere but I never expected this cycle to go this well

 

[Med Ed]

Thanks for the info! I know traditionally April is the time that you have to whittle down to one acceptance but since this school starts super early I’m wondering if there’s a date like that in nov/dec

But now that the acceptance reports are gone, would poaching not be more common? Looking around, it seems like most people have a top choice that they would drop everything for to go to

Poaching may indeed become more common. We'll have to see.

Would I have to contact the DOE? I’m hoping I won’t have to do it but planning for it anyway

You would work through UMKC's financial aid office. Bear in mind they won't be thrilled about the situation.

 

[Med Ed]

Does that mean the rest of the aamc guidelines also don’t apply to this school?

I agree. I’m also a reapplicant and that was one of my state schools so that’s a big reason why I applied. Back then, I just wanted to get in somewhere but I never expected this cycle to go this well

The AAMC traffic rules have basically been a gentleman's agreement since their inception. The AAMC itself is rather limited in its ability to enforce any sanctions, and has instead relied on personal relationships to cajole schools into playing along. Since UMKC operates on a completely different timeline, and no doubt has to contend with many applicants in your situation, it makes perfect sense that it would not feel beholden to the deposit guideline.

 

[deleted956024]

You would work through UMKC's financial aid office. Bear in mind they won't be thrilled about the situation.

Their financial office seems very disorganized. The head guy giving us the presentation on interview day seemed unaware of a lot of basic things about their own university which doesn’t really inspire much confidence.

The AAMC traffic rules have basically been a gentleman's agreement since their inception. The AAMC itself is rather limited in its ability to enforce any sanctions, and has instead relied on personal relationships to cajole schools into playing along. Since UMKC operates on a completely different timeline, and no doubt has to contend with many applicants in your situation, it makes perfect sense that it would not feel beholden to the deposit guideline.

I see. They said they were going to close waitlist movement mid December and they normally don’t have any problems filling seats so it sounds like they’re not expecting that many to drop or there’s a bunch of people on the waitlist. It does suck that i may be losing out on a grand but I can see why they do it

 

[deleted956024]

The guidelines are indeed that, guidelines, despite the fact that they have been treated as actual rules for years. With UMKC having a different cycle then anyone else, they typically dont follow them. And you wanted to get into someplace and you did....... go to school and become a doctor

I do but I don’t want to be miserable at a school for 4 years either. When everyone from your tour guide to current/former students on here tell you not to go there, it makes you really look for other options

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I do but I don’t want to be miserable at a school for 4 years either. When everyone from your tour guide to current/former students on here tell you not to go there, it makes you really look for other options

If you decline the seat then you will likely never be a doctor. Schools will see that you turned down an MD acceptance, and seeing as you are already a reapplicant you probably aren't the kind of applicant that would get a different school to overlook that.

 

[puahate]

I do but I don’t want to be miserable at a school for 4 years either. When everyone from your tour guide to current/former students on here tell you not to go there, it makes you really look for other options

I understand how you feel but right now you just have to bite the bullet.

 

[OchemOficionado]

I do but I don’t want to be miserable at a school for 4 years either. When everyone from your tour guide to current/former students on here tell you not to go there, it makes you really look for other options

You didn’t dislike it enough at that point to withdraw your app from consideration.

 

[stubblesmcgee]

I do but I don’t want to be miserable at a school for 4 years either. When everyone from your tour guide to current/former students on here tell you not to go there, it makes you really look for other options

You should have withdrawn your application. Still, this is a pretty massive red flag about attending if I'm being honest. What were they saying? Every interview I went to had everyone telling me about how great it was.

 

[deleted956024]

If you decline the seat then you will likely never be a doctor. Schools will see that you turned down an MD acceptance, and seeing as you are already a reapplicant you probably aren't the kind of applicant that would get a different school to overlook that.

I understand how you feel but right now you just have to bite the bullet.

You’re right. Which is why I’m just hoping I hear back from another school before than

You didn’t dislike it enough at that point to withdraw your app from consideration.

I didn’t think I was gonna get in so I didn’t see it as an issue at that point. At the end of the day, I’d rather be a doctor than no doctor

You should have withdrawn your application. Still, this is a pretty massive red flag about attending if I'm being honest. What were they saying? Every interview I went to had everyone telling me about how great it was.

Didn’t think I would make it this far so I never considered it. One student told me that they get no support from the admin and it’s a hostile environment to be in. It’s super cliquey with rampant cheating going on among students. It’s also letter grading not p/f which is another reason it’s seen as cut throat and not collaborative. Plus the admin is apparently ok with students failing out. At least 3 out of the <20 students didn’t make it to white coat cause they failed the courses beforehand. My tour guide also told me it’s an ok school but you should also look at other options. None of the students there looked happy. In fact everyone looked dead and miserable which I’ve never seen at any of my interviews