ABEM finally releases pass rates for residency programs

[alpinism]

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Residency program scores for the past few years are listed on their website:
ABEM ONLINE DATABASE OF RECENT EXAM AND CERTIFICATION STATISTICS

Not surprisingly new CMG programs have significantly lower scores vs established non CMG programs scores
with many of all of the new programs with less than 75% pass rates and even some with less than 50% pass rates.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

In a shock to nobody, established programs are strong and newer programs are…well, a black eye on EM.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Interesting

you can watch almost everyone get dumber over time

 

[southerndoc]

Interesting

you can watch almost everyone get dumber over time

Some of it has to do with limited clinical rotations during Covid.

 

[deleted1223140]

Interesting to see that even some so called top programs like U maryland have sub 90% pass rates for the qualifying exam. My non top tier program had better pass rates. I still recall the rejection email they sent me years ago. Great selection criteria they’ve got there.

 

[WhatJobDoIPick]

Some of it has to do with limited clinical rotations during Covid.

Nah. It's all book knowledge. It's literally sitting down and doing rosh review.

Some of these pass rates are just abysmal. 70% lol. This field is cooked.

 

[DocEspana]

Nah. It's all book knowledge. It's literally sitting down and doing rosh review.

Some of these pass rates are just abysmal. 70% lol. This field is cooked.

It does crack me up when a place like NY-Presby has sub-optimal pass rates.

But I have to keep it to myself (outside of this post) because my own 'been around forever' residency did essentially average. We have history, thought apparently its a history of being completely acceptable-i-guess

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

There's some really odd stuff in there. For example, one program in Mississippi graduated 16 people over a three-year period, 6 of them took the written exam for the first time, and only 2 passed. Another one in Missouri graduated 18 people, 10 took the exam, and only 4 passed.

 

[Porfirio]

There's some really odd stuff in there. For example, one program in Mississippi graduated 16 people over a three-year period, 6 of them took the written exam for the first time, and only 2 passed. Another one in Missouri graduated 18 people, 10 took the exam, and only 4 passed.

You only need 5 years in Mississippi and Missouri to be FIRE.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Interesting to see that even some so called top programs like U maryland have sub 90% pass rates for the qualifying exam. My non top tier program had better pass rates. I still recall the rejection email they sent me years ago. Great selection criteria they’ve got there.

What the hell is up with the Houston programs (Baylor and UT Houston)? I thought they were pretty competitive programs, but both are sub 90% first time pass rate on the written which is abysmal for what are considered to be two of the more competitive programs in the state. And this was even present pre-COVID.

 

[cyanide12345678]

In a shock to nobody, established programs are strong and newer programs are…well, a black eye on EM.

Yeah the old good programs still have pass rates in the upper 90s. My own program has a 98% still.

Some of these programs with pass rates in the 50% should truly not exist.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Yeah the old good programs still have pass rates in the upper 90s. My own program has a 98% still.

Some of these programs with pass rates in the 50% should truly not exist.

Yes looks like my program is still in the 98-100% range. They provide amazing training.

 

[Major]

U Cin looking it be top dog.

Absolute abysmal though nationally.

Some programs absolutely need to be shut down

 

[endo]

U Cin looking it be top dog.

Absolute abysmal though nationally.

Some programs absolutely need to be shut down

Yes sir, Cinci don’t miss…

 

[deleted1223140]

Yes sir, Cinci don’t miss…

But seriously who’d wanna do residency in Cincinnati! I’d need to be on Lexipro for the duration. No offense to anyone who graduated from there

 

[southerndoc]

Yes sir, Cinci don’t miss…

I would expect all of the 4-year programs to have >95% pass rates.

 

[EctopicFetus]

But seriously who’d wanna do residency in Cincinnati! I’d need to be on Lexipro for the duration. No offense to anyone who graduated from there

I lived there before med school for a job i took. Oh my god.. terrible.. i worked at the same company and moved elsewhere. when the next project was back in cincy i told my boss i could not go back there and would quit before I went back. The client picked an option that would have required me to go back. My manager took me to lunch to tell this to me and I told him at the lunch i quit. He said go back and think about it. I went back to my desk and wrote my resignation letter LOL.. that was better than living in cincy for another 6-12 months.

I think if i had a family or was more settled it would be fine but man as a single/semi single person it was horrible. Now that was 2+ decades ago and it might be better now but the bitterness in my heart holds strong.

The Cincy resident grads I have worked with have been really strong, good residency but the city stinks.

 

[RustedFox]

What's wrong with Cincinnati?
I've never been there.

 

[cyanide12345678]

But seriously who’d wanna do residency in Cincinnati! I’d need to be on Lexipro for the duration. No offense to anyone who graduated from there

I did my away there. I regret it. I think i fell down my rankings because i was there literally when the best of the best students in the country were rotating there. SLOE came back as slightly above average essentially. I think it hurt me during the match. I was better off being the top dog at an average program rather than a slightly above avg student at a top program.

Life worked out just fine though. But i did not make my top 3 likely because of Cinci’s SLOE.

I personally ranked cinci no. 19 out of 20 in my rank list - that and Johns hopkins were both 4 year programs and by default ended at the very bottom.

 

[Pinner Doc]

As a northeasterner for life at the time, Cincinnati was never on my radar. I don’t think I could have told you they had a program or if it was good. Learned something new today.

 

[deleted1223140]

What's wrong with Cincinnati?
I've never been there.

Crime, poverty, not much to do, mediocre weather. Not the greatest city for residency when you'll need good outlets.

I did my away there. I regret it. I think i fell down my rankings because i was there literally when the best of the best students in the country were rotating there. SLOE came back as slightly above average essentially. I think it hurt me during the match. I was better off being the top dog at an average program rather than a slightly above avg student at a top program.

Life worked out just fine though. But i did not make my top 3 likely because of Cinci’s SLOE.

I personally ranked cinci no. 19 out of 20 in my rank list - that and Johns hopkins were both 4 year programs and by default ended at the very bottom.

I made the same mistake rotating at a different away site. I hate SLOEs. The fact that some of these top programs have failures shows that their program directors don't really know how to select people. My 4th year in med school absolutely sucked from not getting interviews at sites I wanted and feeling resentment towards others who did, because in my mind I was just as qualified if not more. It was easily the worst year of my life. I was treated like a second-class citizen by residents, attendings, nurses, even program coordinators. Life is a complete 180 now and I'm treated well, but things stick and that year really cemented my hatred for academics.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Crime, poverty, not much to do, mediocre weather. Not the greatest city for residency when you'll need good outlets.

I’d argue it’s the best kind of city for residency. It’s got pathology and there’s nothing to do but become a great EM physician.

 

[Major]

As a northeasterner for life at the time, Cincinnati was never on my radar. I don’t think I could have told you they had a program or if it was good. Learned something new today.

The city is meh. But the program is the founding EM residency program

 

[RustedFox]

Not much to do in Cinci?
Like, I've never been there - but any city with 2+ pro sports teams, several universities, etc can't be all that dull.

 

[xaelia]

Not much to do in Cinci?

Plus, you know, Kentucky is *right there*.

 

[Pinner Doc]

I do like bourbon

 

[Major]

Plus, you know, Kentucky is *right there*.

And the airport is in Kentucky

 

[EctopicFetus]

Take it with a grain of salt and keep in mind I was there before medical school. I had a very busy career pre medicine. I worked 60-80 hours a week. It’s dark, it incredibly boring. It is a city that to me felt like it was built for young and old families and very much catered to a boring middle class life that sounds good once married with kids. I was there semi single. The girls were not attractive, there was nothing to do other than grab a meal. It’s like the worst of Chicago without anything fun. Not much outdoors to do etc. Re the sports teams, the bengals are not amazing, the reds sucked ever since Nazi Marge Schott sold the team. Lots of racial tension.. it’s just not one of the “great” cities of America IMO.

 

[CajunMedic]

There's some really odd stuff in there. For example, one program in Mississippi graduated 16 people over a three-year period, 6 of them took the written exam for the first time, and only 2 passed. Another one in Missouri graduated 18 people, 10 took the exam, and only 4 passed.

I can speak to that program in MS. I did my TRI year there and thought that's where I wanted to stay. Those were the first few graduating years. It was heavily DO and most of them took the AOBEM exam. They also went through at least 4 PD's during that time as well

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I can speak to that program in MS. I did my TRI year there and thought that's where I wanted to stay. Those were the first few graduating years. It was heavily DO and most of them took the AOBEM exam. They also went through at least 4 PD's during that time as well

Was it because the PDs couldn't pass the ABEM exam?

 

[EctopicFetus]

I can speak to that program in MS. I did my TRI year there and thought that's where I wanted to stay. Those were the first few graduating years. It was heavily DO and most of them took the AOBEM exam. They also went through at least 4 PD's during that time as well

The program in Mississippi is that the one in Corinth? Also cause I don’t know. Is Aobem considered easier than ABEM?

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

What's wrong with Cincinnati?
I've never been there.

Look at how they eat "chili"

Those people are truly unhinged.

 

[NYEMMED]

Should be a new rule. Any program not above 90% passing should be closed automatically after 2 years

 

[anonperson]

Look at how they eat "chili"

Those people are truly unhinged.

Lol

I was waiting for someone to mention Skyline chili.

 

[southerndoc]

Lol

I was waiting for someone to mention Skyline chili.

I'm gonna plead ignorance. What is the deal with chili?

 

[anonperson]

I'm gonna plead ignorance. What is the deal with chili?

The flavor profile is odd. Cinnamon, hints of chocolate.
All on top of spaghetti with a healthy amount of shredded cheese

 

[EctopicFetus]

The flavor profile is odd. Cinnamon, hints of chocolate.
All on top of spaghetti with a healthy amount of shredded cheese

It’s legit the most overrated food. It’s not good. It’s like getting Chicago style pizza or a hot dog in nyc or sushi in Japan and it being crappier than the $1 version of this at dollar general.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I lived there before med school for a job i took. Oh my god.. terrible.. i worked at the same company and moved elsewhere. when the next project was back in cincy i told my boss i could not go back there and would quit before I went back. The client picked an option that would have required me to go back. My manager took me to lunch to tell this to me and I told him at the lunch i quit. He said go back and think about it. I went back to my desk and wrote my resignation letter LOL.. that was better than living in cincy for another 6-12 months.

I think if i had a family or was more settled it would be fine but man as a single/semi single person it was horrible. Now that was 2+ decades ago and it might be better now but the bitterness in my heart holds strong.

The Cincy resident grads I have worked with have been really strong, good residency but the city stinks.

I’m always surprised at people who have these strong feelings about midwestern cities.

I did college and fellowship in Cleveland. Came from the Northeast, which was where I grew up. Had a blast - I still like the city, even though I live in semi rural IL now. I dated and married someone from the Cleveland area. I’ve been to Cinci a few times and it seems similar to Cleveland.

Bottom line is that these cities aren’t that bad. I think some people are just melodramatic.

(That said, I do agree that “Cincinnati chili” is…not good.)

 

[eyeeye_captain]

Since I’m obviously clueless, I checked Doximity to see what some of the better programs are (it tracks pretty well for eyeballs).

Bunch of big name counties, but I wouldn’t have guessed Cinci and Carolinas were up there. Is Chicago some kind of EM Mecca? I mean I guess even the TV show was set there, but 4 in the top 20 including what looks like some community shop on the South Side.

Skyline chili has to be one of those acquired tastes. I was in Memphis a while back and let my curiosity get the best of me, got some BBQ spaghetti as a side. I wanted it to work since everything else was great, but just nah, something else that doesn’t belong on noodles.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I’m always surprised at people who have these strong feelings about midwestern cities.

I did college and fellowship in Cleveland. Came from the Northeast, which was where I grew up. Had a blast - I still like the city, even though I live in semi rural IL now. I dated and married someone from the Cleveland area. I’ve been to Cinci a few times and it seems similar to Cleveland.

Bottom line is that these cities aren’t that bad. I think some people are just melodramatic.

I haven’t spent much time in Ohio but people say this about every city that isn’t in a coastal state. There’s nothing to do, the dating scene is awful, etc. I find that the problem is generally in the mirror for those people.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

I haven’t spent much time in Ohio but people say this about every city that isn’t in a coastal state. There’s nothing to do, the dating scene is awful, etc. I find that the problem is generally in the mirror for those people.

Did you even look at the chili!?

 

[eyeeye_captain]

I haven’t spent much time in Ohio but people say this about every city that isn’t in a coastal state. There’s nothing to do, the dating scene is awful, etc. I find that the problem is generally in the mirror for those people.

Not always the case. I haven’t really enjoyed the times I’ve spent in Ohio, but if you’re talking the Midwest, I don’t think there are many people that adamantly say no to somewhere like Chicago, Milwaukee, maybe the Twin Cities, etc. Got your Texas lovers and similar for places like Nashville or Colorado.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I’m always surprised at people who have these strong feelings about midwestern cities.

I did college and fellowship in Cleveland. Came from the Northeast, which was where I grew up. Had a blast - I still like the city, even though I live in semi rural IL now. I dated and married someone from the Cleveland area. I’ve been to Cinci a few times and it seems similar to Cleveland.

Bottom line is that these cities aren’t that bad. I think some people are just melodramatic.

(That said, I do agree that “Cincinnati chili” is…not good.)

Not drama.. i lived there for a short period and literally quit a job when they were gonna send me back there (pre-med school). I lived in Chicago. Was a good city. Im not anti Midwest by any means. I am anti -Cincinnati 20 years ago tho. if you read my other statements I said i dont know if it changed but my experience was thru the lens of a single early 20s guy.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Not always the case. I haven’t really enjoyed the times I’ve spent in Ohio, but if you’re talking the Midwest, I don’t think there are many people that adamantly say no to somewhere like Chicago, Milwaukee, maybe the Twin Cities, etc. Got your Texas lovers and similar for places like Nashville or Colorado.

I’m not talking about the huge metros like Chicago, Houston, Dallas. I’m talking about the smaller metro areas. They’re not for everyone but neither is the coasts. People can still find fun things to do and interesting people in all of those smaller metros.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I’m not talking about the huge metros like Chicago, Houston, Dallas. I’m talking about the smaller metro areas. They’re not for everyone but neither is the coasts. People can still find fun things to do and interesting people in all of those smaller metros.

Correct

A fun person is fun anywhere

a boring person is boring anywhere

If you need the ocean as an emotional support waterbed that speaks more of you than it does lack of ocean elsewhere

 

[xaelia]

a boring person is boring anywhere

I'm versatile!

 

[eyeeye_captain]

I’m not talking about the huge metros like Chicago, Houston, Dallas. I’m talking about the smaller metro areas. They’re not for everyone but neither is the coasts. People can still find fun things to do and interesting people in all of those smaller metros.

I’m far from a coastal elitist, but I’d wager most people would take somewhere like Charleston or Asheville over Dayton and Akron. Cleveland and Columbus might be pushes at best. The Rust Belt is still rusting - bless the folks who live there for whatever reason. Plenty of the rest of the nation bores the hell out of plenty of people too.

When even Floridians are unhappy to see an Ohio license plate, that’s saying something.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I’m far from a coastal elitist, but I’d wager most people would take somewhere like Charleston or Asheville over Dayton and Akron. Cleveland and Columbus might be pushes at best. The Rust Belt is still rusting - bless the folks who live there for whatever reason. Plenty of the rest of the nation bores the hell out of plenty of people too.

Charleston isn’t really the kind of area we’re talking about since it’s, you know, on the coast. Kind of like your comment about the Rust Belt. I’m sure I could find cool things and people in each Rust Belt city. Just like medical specialties, city popularities will likely ebb and flow depending on their industries.

 

[DeadCactus]

My anecdotal perception has always been that board performance is terrible at the least competitive programs, approaches 100% at the boarder of mid and highly competitive programs, and than drops again at the most competitive programs. I attributed it to the competitive programs feeling like they can get away with more clinical abuse and less structured didactic education/test-prep. Seems to roughly match this data but maybe it's just confirmation bias.

 

[CajunMedic]

The program in Mississippi is that the one in Corinth? Also cause I don’t know. Is Aobem considered easier than ABEM?

No, it's the one in Hattiesburg. As far as easier? From what I've heard, yes. The main advantage was you could take AOBEM when it was offered during your last year of residency.