ABEM scam

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Hamhock

Hamhock

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How does an annual fee to ABEM ensure that I am qualified and up to date?

I have passed my initial ABEM certification exam. I have completed all of the ancillary requirements. I paid and completed my re-certification exam (which is now apparently only good for five, not ten, years).

Despite this, the ABEM website and reports state that my ABEM certification is "REVOKED" (in capital letters and highlighted in red on the website).

It will remain revoked unless I pay them over $1000 in annual fees. This money is not for more certification testing or to ensure I am continuing my education. It's just a fee.

Of note, there is only two options: "certified" or "revoked". I no longer practice emergency medicine, but I must maintain this certification to keep my critical care certification. So I just pay more money or they report my certification as 'revoked' in response to any inquiries.

This is a scam. This is in no way this empty annual fee is supporting me, other emergency physicians, or the community. Just a money grab and a bureaucratic waste.

This is yet another indication of physicians loosing control of our professional lives and medicine. I will now support the movement within my hospital to reject the requirement of ongoing ABMS re-certification. Perhaps ABMS certifications are useful initially, but this ongoing waste and theft is disgusting.

HH
 
I'm all for any organized movement to dump cash grabs

ABIM had a pretty similar revolt a few years ago. EM as a whole is pretty spineless from a lobbying standpoint but ABEM is trying real hard to find the inflection point where enough money is taken for people to reject it outright
 
EM docs as a whole make no effort to concentrate their power. Our real opportunity was during covid. Rahm Emmanuel said it best.. “

You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”​


The ship has sailed and we are just an after thought to our hospitals and legislators. Too many weak people were happy posing with their “healthcare heroes” signs. Then came pay cuts, crappier treatment at work, staffing cuts, nursing shortages etc.
 
EctopicFetus said:
EM docs as a whole make no effort to concentrate their power. Our real opportunity was during covid. Rahm Emmanuel said it best.. “

You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”​


The ship has sailed and we are just an after thought to our hospitals and legislators. Too many weak people were happy posing with their “healthcare heroes” signs. Then came pay cuts, crappier treatment at work, staffing cuts, nursing shortages etc.
Click to expand...

I think it was Churchill who said that first.
I was corrected a few months back when I attributed that quote to Emmanuel. I think I remember looking it up and seeing that bro was right; but I can't remember for sure.
 
RustedFox said:
I think it was Churchill who said that first.
I was corrected a few months back when I attributed that quote to Emmanuel. I think I remember looking it up and seeing that bro was right; but I can't remember for sure.
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www.foreignaffairs.com

Opportunity From Crisis

After disaster strikes, there is an opportunity to rebuild bigger and stronger. But as is often the case, an elite group seizes this opportunity to rebuild in their own image.
www.foreignaffairs.com www.foreignaffairs.com

Looks like no proof it’s Churchill. Either way the concept is correct regardless of who said it.
 
In my opinion ABEM is a scam, meant to line it's own pockets with the money earned by those actually helping patients. It has no interest in actually making a quality product, but rather to reap as much $$$ as possible from the every day working physician for it's administrative pockets. If I continue to work into my PGY 30's, maybe a class action lawsuit would be on my radar.
 
Hamhock said:
I no longer practice emergency medicine, but I must maintain this certification to keep my critical care certification
Click to expand...
I have good news. You don't have to do this anymore.

"9. Do I still have to complete the Assessment of Knowledge, Judgment, and Skills (KJS) requirement (recertification examination) for each specialty and subspecialty certification I have? Yes. All ABEM-certified physicians must take and pass the recertification examination for each certification they hold. Physicians who are subspecialty certified do NOT have to maintain their EM certification. However, ABEM believes that physicians who continue to practice Emergency Medicine in addition to their subspecialty should continue to maintain their EM certification."

Source: ABEM FAQ

I was please when this change happened (2018) and posted about it, somewhere in the entrails of this forum. While this does not completely eliminate the MOC burden/scam, it lessens it slightly You might want to contact ABEM, just to make sure this is still the policy if you are going to drop EM. But I remember when the changed happened and it is still on their website.

Even though I haven't worked an EM shift since 2011 and only work my subspecialty, I've decided to keep the EM cert. The rationale being, "I worked to hard to get it, to let it go that easy." But I would not fault anyone for dropping their EM and only keeping their subspecialty cert. It wouldn’t take much to convince me to do it.
 
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TysonCook said:
In my opinion ABEM is a scam, meant to line it's own pockets with the money earned by those actually helping patients. It has no interest in actually making a quality product, but rather to reap as much $$$ as possible from the every day working physician for it's administrative pockets. If I continue to work into my PGY 30's, maybe a class action lawsuit would be on my radar.
Click to expand...
A few years back an article was posted on this forum that mentioned the staff at ABEM get all expenses paid vacation to Hawaii and another destination. That's where out certification fees are going.
 
Birdstrike said:
Even though I haven't worked an EM shift since 2011 and only work my subspecialty, I've decided to keep the EM cert. The rationale being, "I worked to hard to get it, to let it go that easy." But I would not fault anyone for dropping their EM and only keeping their subspecialty cert. It wouldn’t take much to convince me to do it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I’m only 2 months into a one year fellowship and am already being asked how many EM shifts I want in my health care network after fellowship (if any), while also being asked what percentage FTE I want to work hospice and palliative. So it’s all very much on my mind.

I have heard for HPM diplomates that it’s actually cheaper/less onerous/some other reason to recert through ABIM if not going back to EM? I know there are other HPM folks here - can anyone comment?
 
Pinner Doc said:
Thanks for this. I’m only 2 months into a one year fellowship and am already being asked how many EM shifts I want in my health care network after fellowship (if any), while also being asked what percentage FTE I want to work hospice and palliative. So it’s all very much on my mind.

I have heard for HPM diplomates that it’s actually cheaper/less onerous/some other reason to recert through ABIM if not going back to EM? I know there are other HPM folks here - can anyone comment?
Click to expand...
I’m probably not alone in this, but I didn’t even know we didn’t have to maintain our primary certification. It’s not well advertised on abems site, although neither is anything else if we’re being fair.

Your continuing Ed goes through abims web portal no matter what, but as far as I know there is no option to actually be certified by abim unless that’s your main specialty board. I couldn’t even see my test results from boards til abem posted them, abim page just said “check your abem portal.”
 
Birdstrike said:
I have good news. You don't have to do this anymore.

"9. Do I still have to complete the Assessment of Knowledge, Judgment, and Skills (KJS) requirement (recertification examination) for each specialty and subspecialty certification I have? Yes. All ABEM-certified physicians must take and pass the recertification examination for each certification they hold. Physicians who are subspecialty certified do NOT have to maintain their EM certification. However, ABEM believes that physicians who continue to practice Emergency Medicine in addition to their subspecialty should continue to maintain their EM certification."

Source: ABEM FAQ

I was please when this change happened (2018) and posted about it, somewhere in the entrails of this forum. While this does not completely eliminate the MOC burden/scam, it lessens it slightly You might want to contact ABEM, just to make sure this is still the policy if you are going to drop EM. But I remember when the changed happened and it is still on their website.

Even though I haven't worked an EM shift since 2011 and only work my subspecialty, I've decided to keep the EM cert. The rationale being, "I worked to hard to get it, to let it go that easy." But I would not fault anyone for dropping their EM and only keeping their subspecialty cert. It wouldn’t take much to convince me to do it.
Click to expand...

Have you found it hard to keep up the cert despite not practicing?

I was lucky and grandfathered in to the 10-year path (I was the last class to get this opportunity) and as such I don't have to recertify until 2029. I sitll want to keep my certification up to date indefinitely but I wonder how it'll look to ABEM if I'm not doing any EM-based clinical practice.
 
Birdstrike said:
I have good news. You don't have to do this anymore.

"9. Do I still have to complete the Assessment of Knowledge, Judgment, and Skills (KJS) requirement (recertification examination) for each specialty and subspecialty certification I have? Yes. All ABEM-certified physicians must take and pass the recertification examination for each certification they hold. Physicians who are subspecialty certified do NOT have to maintain their EM certification. However, ABEM believes that physicians who continue to practice Emergency Medicine in addition to their subspecialty should continue to maintain their EM certification."

Source: ABEM FAQ

I was please when this change happened (2018) and posted about it, somewhere in the entrails of this forum. While this does not completely eliminate the MOC burden/scam, it lessens it slightly You might want to contact ABEM, just to make sure this is still the policy if you are going to drop EM. But I remember when the changed happened and it is still on their website.

Even though I haven't worked an EM shift since 2011 and only work my subspecialty, I've decided to keep the EM cert. The rationale being, "I worked to hard to get it, to let it go that easy." But I would not fault anyone for dropping their EM and only keeping their subspecialty cert. It wouldn’t take much to convince me to do it.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right -- and I have notified ABEM that I am letting my EM boards lapse.

That is quite different than marking my board-certification as REVOKED in red. This is clearly a punitive response from them and completely inaccurate. Infuriating.

HH
 
Does anyone know how to get ahold of Dr. Barton? She seems to be the executive director and she's an MD, presumably ABEM MD.

(edited, as photo hinted at doxing in retrospect)

HH
 
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Hamhock said:
Yes, you are right -- and I have notified ABEM that I am letting my EM boards lapse.

That is quite different than marking my board-certification as REVOKED in red. This is clearly a punitive response from them and completely inaccurate. Infuriating.

HH
Click to expand...
I didn't do any more research, but isn't it one or the other, only - "certified" and "revoked", irrespective of the reason?
 
I'm also in the last 10-year 2029 class, and I'll be going the "retired" route, I guess. I'm not reupping since I don't do EM at all and only do hospice and use the HDMC board now.
 
Apollyon said:
I didn't do any more research, but isn't it one or the other, only - "certified" and "revoked", irrespective of the reason?
Click to expand...
There are many more accurate descriptions of my state. 'Revoked' implies there was an active -- on the part of ABEM -- removal of my certification. Rather, I was and am certified, but I just haven't paid the fees for the next certification process.

I could be: lapsed; retired; pending re-certification; emeritus; hiatus; on hold; temporary hold; and so forth. My certification doesn't not need to be in a red box and titled, "REVOKED".

HH
 
Hamhock said:
There are many more accurate descriptions of my state. 'Revoked' implies there was an active -- on the part of ABEM -- removal of my certification. Rather, I was and am certified, but I just haven't paid the fees for the next certification process.

I could be: lapsed; retired; pending re-certification; emeritus; hiatus; on hold; temporary hold; and so forth. My certification doesn't not need to be in a red box and titled, "REVOKED".

HH
Click to expand...
All I said was there was no in between. It's not what you wish. As I said, I didn't look further. Someone said it was either "current" or "revoked", with no other options. So, I don't know.
 
HemorrhagicShock said:
Have you found it hard to keep up the cert despite not practicing?

I was lucky and grandfathered in to the 10-year path (I was the last class to get this opportunity) and as such I don't have to recertify until 2029. I sitll want to keep my certification up to date indefinitely but I wonder how it'll look to ABEM if I'm not doing any EM-based clinical practice.
Click to expand...
I haven’t found it hard. You just do the online stuff and although a few things have changed, not enough that I can’t pass. It’s multiple choice after all and what has changed isn’t so voluminous that it can’t be learned enough to pass.
 
Birdstrike said:
I haven’t found it hard. You just do the online stuff and although a few things have changed, not enough that I can’t pass. It’s multiple choice after all and what has changed isn’t so voluminous that it can’t be learned enough to pass.
Click to expand...
2nd this. I did all my required LLSA and other exams in a single afternoon (beer in hand). More effort to log in than do the test. What a f’ing joke.
 
HemorrhagicShock said:
Have you found it hard to keep up the cert despite not practicing?

I was lucky and grandfathered in to the 10-year path (I was the last class to get this opportunity) and as such I don't have to recertify until 2029. I sitll want to keep my certification up to date indefinitely but I wonder how it'll look to ABEM if I'm not doing any EM-based clinical practice.
Click to expand...
The MyEMCert stuff is a joke. The questions are in no way comparative in difficulty to actual board questions. I doubt you'd need anything near recent clinical practice to answer them correctly. Plus, AI can answer almost all of them flawlessly if you want to have it analyzing as back up.
 
Groove said:
The MyEMCert stuff is a joke. The questions are in no way comparative in difficulty to actual board questions. I doubt you'd need anything near recent clinical practice to answer them correctly. Plus, AI can answer almost all of them flawlessly if you want to have it analyzing as back up.
Click to expand...
Can confirm. I haven’t worked an ED shift in two and a half years and I passed all four in like 90 minutes. Only used WikEM a little.
 
Groove said:
The MyEMCert stuff is a joke. The questions are in no way comparative in difficulty to actual board questions. I doubt you'd need anything near recent clinical practice to answer them correctly. Plus, AI can answer almost all of them flawlessly if you want to have it analyzing as back up.
Click to expand...

This is so good to hear. I thought it would be some MCAT-level 5-layer type question where you really have to dive deep into the brain of the question writer to figure out the right answer.

I never intend to practice another day of EM for the rest of my life, but I want to keep the board cert in the event it's necessary for some other role in the future.
 
HemorrhagicShock said:
Have you found it hard to keep up the cert despite not practicing?

I was lucky and grandfathered in to the 10-year path (I was the last class to get this opportunity) and as such I don't have to recertify until 2029. I sitll want to keep my certification up to date indefinitely but I wonder how it'll look to ABEM if I'm not doing any EM-based clinical practice.
Click to expand...
We still have the 10-yr path in IM, but I don't consider myself being lucky. I believe these certifications serve no purpose.

How about the older docs who were grandfathered to not have to re-certify? Are they not good enough to practice medicine?
 
Splenda88 said:
We still have the 10-yr path in IM, but I don't consider myself being lucky. I believe these certifications serve no purpose.

How about the older docs who were grandfathered to not have to re-certify? Are they not good enough to practice medicine?
Click to expand...
I've always thought it strange that IM (and others) does that. When FM started requiring recert every 10 years it applied to everyone. Nobody got grandfathered in.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I've always thought it strange that IM (and others) does that. When FM started requiring recert every 10 years it applied to everyone. Nobody got grandfathered in.
Click to expand...
That shows you it's all about money.
 
Splenda88 said:
How about the older docs who were grandfathered to not have to re-certify? Are they not good enough to practice medicine?
Click to expand...
I have a good friend that missed lifetime cert for Rads by one year. She's a political animal, though, and, if ANYONE could get it, it would be her, and, she couldn't get it done. Slammed shut like a steel door.
 
Is it supposed to show some note (in all red) about activities required--then I click the link and it takes me to another page where everything looks completed?

Their site is garbage and seems to be always under maintenance or something...
 
I'm thinking about switching to an alternate board certification -- maybe ABPS.

ABEM is nothing but a racket. I have both EMS and EM board certification that renewed on a 10-year cycle. Both expire in 2029. Each MyEMCert and MyEMSCert test is $400. One EMCert can count for EMSCert... so that's 7 tests every 5 years = $2800!

What a freaking racket. I should just let my certification lapse and get out of medicine all together when it expires in 2029. The fact is I enjoy working in the ER, but good grief ABEM needs some major changes.

The RICO act comes to mind with their excessive testing fees.
 
I'm with you. I'll need a recert in 2030 and I'm thinking of letting it lapse, go ABPS, and I'll find work that accepts it rather than stay ABMS. It is a total racket and after PGY 20+ years practicing full time at a level I trauma center, it has absolutely nothing to do with making sure I'm a proficient EP. What a joke.
 
Groove said:
Doesn't ABPS certify anyone, FM/IM included? Wouldn't that be a bad thing for job security moving forward?
Click to expand...
As opposed to paying nearly $7000 every 10 years just for tests that take <30 mins to complete and are basically common sense to our specialty?

These tests should be valued at $25-50 each.
 
There should be a simple flow chart:

Did you graduate from an EM residency? Yes. Have you worked in the ED in the last 2 years? If yes, you’re board certified. If no, then maybe you can talk about doing something to make sure you’re proficient.
 
And the prices for the required modules/continuing certification rise every year. Last year they were $300 and this year $320. Are they just going to rise by $20/year? In 10 years is the fee going to be $500/year?
 
EMdoc235 said:
And the prices for the required modules/continuing certification rise every year. Last year they were $300 and this year $320. Are they just going to rise by $20/year? In 10 years is the fee going to be $500/year?
Click to expand...

One thing we can all be sure inflation will keep up with
 
EMdoc235 said:
Those “volunteer for us” emails they send are so annoying. Who actually volunteers for such a predatory organization?
Click to expand...
Easy answer.

Climbers.

You can't wear the boots without licking other's first.
 
xaelia said:
I think the worsening performance of EM trainees on their standardized testing indicates "graduating" isn't enough, anymore ...
Click to expand...
I agree that newer residents don’t seem to be as strong but as long as they keep passing residents through residency then ABEM will keep board certifying them. Anyone with cursory medical knowledge and the internet can pass the EMCert tests.
 
southerndoc said:
As opposed to paying nearly $7000 every 10 years just for tests that take <30 mins to complete and are basically common sense to our specialty?

These tests should be valued at $25-50 each.
Click to expand...
That's freaking nuts. With ABFM I pay I think $300/year and every activity they offer is covered including the longitudinal assessment that can replace the every 10 year test.
 
EMdoc235 said:
Those “volunteer for us” emails they send are so annoying. Who actually volunteers for such a predatory organization?
Click to expand...

Literally everyone who does uncompensated peer review for academic journals.
 
Is it actually reasonable on a professional level to practice ER after your BC expires? In truth?

What would happen if you went to court and plantiff discovered you are not board certified? I would love to have my board certification expire and not pay these stupid fees, but I doubt the hospital would continue to let me work?!?
 
thegenius said:
Is it actually reasonable on a professional level to practice ER after your BC expires? In truth?

What would happen if you went to court and plantiff discovered you are not board certified? I would love to have my board certification expire and not pay these stupid fees, but I doubt the hospital would continue to let me work?!?
Click to expand...
Lawsuit wise doubt it matters. Your hospital may care.. but you can do ABPS which is way cheaper.
 
I would be curious to know if my experience is reflected in the forum membership. Over the past 2-3 years, I've noticed the following:
1) It is impossible to call ABEM - literally nobody answers the phone. The only way to correspond is via email or portal "tickets" and reponses are ALWAYS email. They will not call you even if asked. This is nuts. An organization this big and important should be able to answer the phone.
2) The "new" ABEM portal is a disaster. They've taken a year to migrate over and I still see errors in my dashboard. The portal also flickers, frequently crashes, and seems unstable. My CCM dashboard doesn't even exist anymore as it is just a mirror of my EM dashboard with no records of my completed CCM MOC requirements.
3) Although the ABEM website has a lengthly list of leadership, directors, officers, etc., there is no way to contact these people - none. What is the purpose of "members-at-large" if the diplomats cannot contact these people to address issues such as what I describe.

In summary, this is appearing less and less like a professional organization. Perhaps others on this form have different experiences and can let me know if I'm off base. However, I'd be very interested in seeing an audit of their books.
 
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