yoman

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Hello everyone,

I am writing to you all in regards to your thoughts about the current NRMP match system and the way it is set up. As you know, there is a lawsuit going on against the NRMP and the NRMP is trying to save its ass with the "Save the match.org" website. This currently system favors the programs too much. Many program will talk to each other after the interviews are done and negotiate which students they want with another program and rank them in a way you are destined to go to that program no matter how you rank them. We as applicants dont know what really goes on behind the scenes, but I do have proof of this.

Another reason it should be abolished is that the NRMP is the "middle man" of this entire system. Medical students pay too much as it is for tuition and fees for boards exams, etc with practically no income. The applicant should have direct contact when it comes to acceptances/rejections with the institution instead of playing these "mind games" with each other. Also, the system should be set up the way fellowships/med school applications are currently. The programs should give an applicant an acceptance letter directly and it is up to the applicant to decide whether he or she wants to attend that place, cutting out the "middle man" or NRMP. If he doesnt accept, then the schools should look into their waitlist. It would save us money and swing the favor back towards the applicant in letting him make his own choice and destiny. These are just my opinions. Everyone has the right to theirs, but I wish someone would set up an organization and try to abolish the current match system. The system should be set up by medical students that favors medical students. After all, we are "cheap" labor when we become residents.

Residents: http://www.residentcase.com/
NRMP: http://www.savethematch.org/

Take the time to review the websites and familiarize yourself with the issues being addressed. The outcome of this decision will affect more than just the NRMP match (also being sued are close to 30 medical schools/hospital systems and all of the following bodies: AMA, AHA, AAMC, ACGME, ABMS). Moreover, it will set legal precedent, whichever way the verdit turns out.
 

greatdane

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i disagree completely....i am not saying the match system is not without flaws and is a little on the expensive side...but overall I am in favor or it
 

yoman

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Please read both websites... im sure one will gain a greater insight to what really is going on
 
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doc05

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you are an idiot. no system is perfect, but the match works, and without it, things would be worse.

Originally posted by yoman
Hello everyone,

I am writing to you all in regards to your thoughts about the current NRMP match system and the way it is set up. As you know, there is a lawsuit going on against the NRMP and the NRMP is trying to save its ass with the "Save the match.org" website. This currently system favors the programs too much. Many program will talk to each other after the interviews are done and negotiate which students they want with another program and rank them in a way you are destined to go to that program no matter how you rank them. We as applicants dont know what really goes on behind the scenes, but I do have proof of this.

Another reason it should be abolished is that the NRMP is the "middle man" of this entire system. Medical students pay too much as it is for tuition and fees for boards exams, etc with practically no income. The applicant should have direct contact when it comes to acceptances/rejections with the institution instead of playing these "mind games" with each other. Also, the system should be set up the way fellowships/med school applications are currently. The programs should give an applicant an acceptance letter directly and it is up to the applicant to decide whether he or she wants to attend that place, cutting out the "middle man" or NRMP. If he doesnt accept, then the schools should look into their waitlist. It would save us money and swing the favor back towards the applicant in letting him make his own choice and destiny. These are just my opinions. Everyone has the right to theirs, but I wish someone would set up an organization and try to abolish the current match system. The system should be set up by medical students that favors medical students. After all, we are "cheap" labor when we become residents.

Residents: http://www.residentcase.com/
NRMP: http://www.savethematch.org/

Take the time to review the websites and familiarize yourself with the issues being addressed. The outcome of this decision will affect more than just the NRMP match (also being sued are close to 30 medical schools/hospital systems and all of the following bodies: AMA, AHA, AAMC, ACGME, ABMS). Moreover, it will set legal precedent, whichever way the verdit turns out.
 

avendesora

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Originally posted by doc05
you are an idiot. .

Agreed. This has been discussed to death, without anyone really changing anyone's mind.

The people in medicine to make a buck as quick as possible are against the match. Those of us who see the educational value of the current residency system and who enjoyed looking at lots of programs before trying to find the right fit are for it.

Invariably, those who wish to abolish the match seem to view residency as "just a job".
 

tofurious

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With few exceptions, the ones who resort to calling others idiots first are usually the true idiots themselves.
 

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Originally posted by tofurious
With few exceptions, the ones who resort to calling others idiots first are usually the true idiots themselves.

But didn't you just call someone an idiot too?
 

Scrubbs

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Originally posted by tofurious
With few exceptions, the ones who resort to calling others idiots first are usually the true idiots themselves.

Sort of has a good ring to it like "I'm rubber, you're glue... Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!" Makes you just want to bust out with a good nanny-nanny-poo-poo! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

kungfufishing

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what proof is there that programs talk to each other/negotiate their "picks"?
Im sure this might happen a little, but considering that there are thousands of applicants and that program directors dont all know each other THAT well, I doubt this is all that common.
 

avendesora

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Originally posted by tofurious
I did it SECOND, not FIRST :)

Actually, if you want to get down to the semantics of it -- you were the third in line of "idiot callers". doc5 first, then me, then you.

I guess my true sentiments would have been better expressed by saying "this argument is idiotic" rather than calling people out, but it was just easier to hit the "quote" button.

Point is, no one is changing anyones' mind.

Have a nice day :laugh:
 

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I stand corrected. I am only worthy of a speaker-of-the-house idiocy.
 

PainDr

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I agree! Just because people know each other doesn't mean they compare notes about applicants. Actually, if you think about it, the idea of PDs sharing info is completely ridiculous! Why would anyone share info with their competitors?

As a resident, I have seen the process first hand. We actually come to the big faculty meeting and help decide how to rank people. We talk about board scores, personality, work ethic, hobbies, etc. We rank people based on how smart they are (assuming they're not weird, rude or lazy), how much we like them and how well we think they'll fit in with the team.

Those who want to abolish the match need to do a little research before shooting their mouths off and causing trouble. You want to talk about unfair treatment? In the old days people were manipulated, coerced and threatened! It was utter chaos.:scared:
 

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I agree that a healthy discussion about the current match system and possible alternatives is valid. I am left with a sense, however, that the people who oppose the current system seem to have a hidden agenda. I won't speculate as to what that might be. Those who are making claims about violations of the match protocol (ie. proof that program directors are discussing their match list with each other) are raising serious issues/ accusations and should do so only if they are willing to provide the rest of us with the "proof" that they have. Otherwise, these claims are unfounded at best and downright libelous at worst. Regardless, if we are to truly have an open and honest discussion, we should all have access to the facts and refrain from interjecting anecdote, speculation, or inference.

As for my own NRMP experience, I found it to be a relatively painless process. I haven't encountered any situations or other evidence that would lead me to believe that he process is unfair or biased against me, the applicant.

As an aside, I am suspicious of posters like yoman who are relatively new to this forum and whose profile leaves us guessing as to what experience or qualifications he/she has to contribute credibly to this discussion. For me, it raises even more questions about what ulterior motives yoman might have.
 

kungfufishing

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well, apollyon does have more of an insider viewpoint than I do, in that Im still on the applicant side of the fence. So for those of you who are in residency, do you think they really compare notes? I can see where they might over the people on the top of their list, but for the majority of us, the folks who are most likely in the middle, I just cant see them nit picking over their list and calling their buddies.
 

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Originally posted by kungfufishing
well, apollyon does have more of an insider viewpoint than I do, in that Im still on the applicant side of the fence. So for those of you who are in residency, do you think they really compare notes? I can see where they might over the people on the top of their list, but for the majority of us, the folks who are most likely in the middle, I just cant see them nit picking over their list and calling their buddies.

In my program, it's always a surprise who will come and who will not on match day. There appears to be little if any discussion between PDs. No one has the time. :(
 

avendesora

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I was thinking maybe some of this stems from the difference in specialties.

The application/interview process for me in IM was totally different than for those I know in Ortho or Rad-Onc, for example. I mean, my smallest interview group was about 10, with most closer to 30. Some programs interview 30 people total.

So I can see how if there's only 5 spots or something nationally for what you want to do it can seem more plausible that PDs would be talking. For me, UPenn or some of these huge programs trying to fill their 60 PGY1 spots without a match just seems ludicrous.

Also, those that are against the NRMP -- are you also against that SF match? What about the militay match?
Curious...
 
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Originally posted by Andrew_Doan
Knowing names and actually talking to them are two different things. ;)

No, I mean she personally knows them - talks to them, and knows details. My PD is also rapidly moving up the ACEP ladder, so it behooves her to know people. Maybe EM is just a tighter community (new kid on the block, we have to provide a united front).
 
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