About the President of ATSU

[KCOMStudent01]

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Thought this might be interesting to some people. This is a new account to protect my identity, otherwise I would fear reprisal. This an example of some of my problems with the administration of this school.
http://www.kirksvilledailyexpress.com/articles/2008/02/06/news/news1.txt

Curious about how this affects your opinion of my school. I still like my school and think they do a good job training us, but I feel there is a lot of hypochrisy among the administration.

 

[EEL08]

My response has nothing to do with the school but people who drink and drive seriously tick me off. 😡

 

[paramediclizard]

I can maybe understand making a mistake once, but twice...seriously get a grip. You know he had more than the famous "two beers" before leaving a "resturant" at 2:30 in the morning.

 

[justletmeinplz]

If he's not fired immediately it could (should) seriously hurt the school's reputation. I'd never go there knowing the school president was an old drunk.

 

[t-funk]

My response has nothing to do with the school but people who drink and drive seriously tick me off. 😡

Me too! I got hit by a drunk driver when I was sixteen and was too young to even realize he was drunk. He almost talked me out of calling the police by begging at my feet on his hands and knees. Luckily my best friend's mom showed up and understood what was going on. D&D is extremely selfish behavior.

 

[EEL08]

Me too! I got hit by a drunk driver when I was sixteen and was too young to even realize he was drunk. He almost talked me out of calling the police by begging at my feet on his hands and knees. Luckily my best friend's mom showed up and understood what was going on. D&D is extremely selfish behavior.

Wow that's awful. 👎 I don't know anyone personally who has had that experience but I have seen plenty stories on the news. I just always think that could have been my family on the road with that drunk driver. 🙁

 

[RoyalFB]

Has the school made any sort of statement about it yet?

 

[BusterDO]

I can maybe understand making a mistake once, but twice...seriously get a grip. You know he had more than the famous "two beers" before leaving a "resturant" at 2:30 in the morning.

I hope you're not referring to DUI's...never an excuse, period.

Fire this dude.

 

[fobw]

The Current Occupant of the White House has a DUI, and his vice president has two. Didn't hurt their careers a bit.

Consequences are a great gift that those two weren't given. I'd love to see a huge stink raised over this ATSU situation, by the administration and by the student body. Demand that McGovern step down and begin the standard 28 day inpatient treatment program, and demand that he not be eligible for reinstatement until he's 2 years sober. Good for everybody.

 

[spazzz]

The Current Occupant of the White House has a DUI, and his vice president has two. Didn't hurt their careers a bit.

Consequences are a great gift that those two weren't given. I'd love to see a huge stink raised over this ATSU situation, by the administration and by the student body. Demand that McGovern step down and begin the standard 28 day inpatient treatment program, and demand that he not be eligible for reinstatement until he's 2 years sober. Good for everybody.

the VP shot a man too. let's not forget that,

 

[sunny1]

.....in the face!!!!!!

 

[Jpc984]

A former president smoked pot but didn't inhale.

 

[RoyalFB]

I am wondering why KCOM students on SDN and the Kirksville Daily Express website feel the need to hide their identity when they address this issue. I can only imagine it is out of concern that they may be repremanded for speaking out against the university. I must say that I am a bit surprised if this is the case because I got the feeling during my interview that KCOM have extremely nice faculty and the admin seemed very pro-student. Is this not the case??

 

[Soca]

.....in the face!!!!!!

And he didn't go to police until he was sober...and he lied about how far away he was from the victim...and then, instead of apologizing to his friend and the American people, he made his friend apologize to him and the American people...and nobody cares.

 

[Cancer Man]

I am wondering why KCOM students on SDN and the Kirksville Daily Express website feel the need to hide their identity when they address this issue. I can only imagine it is out of concern that they may be repremanded for speaking out against the university. I must say that I am a bit surprised if this is the case because I got the feeling during my interview that KCOM have extremely nice faculty and the admin seemed very pro-student. Is this not the case??

I will try to answer that question... This second DUI incident with Dr. McGovern is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg of what goes on there. Had I known then what I know now, I would have gone elsewhere for my medical education. Now don’t get me wrong, KCOM’s education and training is good and it prepares you well for boards and residency, but that, like Dick Cheny, is not the topic of this particular thread.

There is a double standard. This is the second time that he has been arrested (not for DUI. (Read the newspaper article and the comments for more about how the community feels about this.) Nothing has happened and I would be very surprised if anything did happen. However, if a student got arrested (not convicted mind you) for a DUI, there would be severe repercussions. The student would probably be “asked to leave” in a not very polite manner, if you know what I mean. They scream professionalism yet act the opposite. KCOMstudent01 is correct. Hipocracy. They even keep a copy of all email going in and out of their servers and the administration has free access to it should they need it.

The administration at KCOM does not take kindly to dissenters. Let me give you an example. KCOM has a tradition called "Skit Night" where the students make funny videos or do live skits. It's a great stress reliever and everyone has a good time. When Dr. McGovern got his first DUI arrest, the students were told that if anyone brought it up, they would be placed on probation. Once a student is on probation, expulsion is on a hair trigger. There is really no such thing as “reprimand” as far as they are concerned.

I too got the pro-student/friendly faculty impression on my tour. However, it is a stark contrast to how things are once you are on the inside. As long as you keep your head down and your mouth shut, you are OK. However, if you become a dissenter, you become and enemy of the state. This is why no one says anything. No one wants to be executed. Now while I have spoken in generalities, there is a minority of administration and faculty who are genuinely student friendly and will help you no matter how much trouble you get yourself into.

KCOMstudent01 went out on a major limb here and for that, we should be appreciative. If his/her identity were to be revealed, he/she would probably be lined up in front of the firing squad known as the promotions board. ATSU/KCOM is a private institution and thus makes its own rules. I don’t think they are answerable to anyone, not even the AOA. However, I could be wrong… I wonder what the AOA would do if anything at all if they knew about this.


KCOMstudent01, shoot me a PM if you would like to discuss this further.

 

[MaximusD]

That's just ridiculous. The school can be sued for kicking out a student on those grounds. In fact, they could be sued for the entirety of losses to their medical career... that could be MILLIONS of dollars!!! He/she has first amendment rights, and unless teh matriculation agreement said something to the effect of relinquishing that right, the OP could sue if he/she were subjected to a internal hearing because of speaking about this (at least in this manner). If the OP were to call the president a drunk and a thief and use slander, etc that would be a different story.

I hate when groups of people get together and think they're above the law. Pisses me off SO f-ing much. It's like the military forum where people were trying to tell me that they don't have to abide by the contract.

That said, to the people who said that drunk driving is some sort of sin against humanity I just want to point out that you can surpass the legal drinking limit in many instances with two or three glasses of wine. Don't judge so hastily. When you are out at a party and you subjectively begin to "feel drunk" you are probably WELL past 0.08 and probably somewhere near .12-.15.

People that drive and blow a .15, on the other hand, get no sympathy from me.

So to go back to the original topic, I'm glad that the poster had the guts to come on here, but I want to assure that person that if they are attending the school and have signed a matriculation agreement, the school has to have a damn good reason for disciplining you unless they want an invitation to a lawsuit.

Secondly, I do agree that this guy should be strung up for dirnking and driving twice. However, it is not fair to chastize anyone who has EVER gotten a DUI. And trust me, I haven't (wouldn't be getting my USAF scholarship if I had...)... I'm just saying it can happen far easier than you'd expect.

 

[Willh]

And there's always Ted Kennedy.

Drives drunk, crashes, girlfriend dies...he staggers away, goes home and to sleep -- completely ignoring his girlfriend.

Rather than government, he should be in prison. When you do something that wrong...you just have to admit the person is a sociopath. He has no morals. I simply don't believe a person capable of such behavior is capable of change. He may be capable of realizing he needs to change, simply because people hate him...but it's only a surface change. It's a lie done with the same motivation as the previous wrong.

 

[VALSALVA]

I went to KCOM. What the current students on this thread are reporting was just as true a few years ago as it is now. Kirksville is a small pond and there are a few medium sized fish that basically own the town (literally and figuratively) and/or the school. As friendly as the school seems to be on the outside, there are some nasty people in the administration...for sure! These people can make your life hell almost at their own whim. The faculty are quite supportive of the students but are essentially powerless when it comes to expulsions, promotions board, etc. etc.

Most of the people in Kirksville are super nice, but, unfortunately, they're not the ones in power.

As a side note, the medical education is great at KCOM. As long as one doesn't get involved in school politics or stir the pot too much, KCOM is a great experience.

 

[Porco Rosso]

its a private college so you have to abide by their rules. they can argue that anything you say could be seen as a detrimental to the private institution and grounds for lawsuits. if it was a public university, it is a totally different ball game.

maybe he will take some time off and go to some type of a rehab program.

 

[ks417]

I believe that making the choice to attend a private institution automatically gives the presumption that you are willing to abide by private institutional rules and regulations. Do I think it's fair for student's to fear an unwarranted expulsion due to "hallway talk" about an administator, no, however I do believe that out of respect your administration you should give the benefit of the doubt until due process has been reached.

What I find odd about Kirksville student's and this issue, is the lack of school pride.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 90 percent of medical applicants get picked by the school, you don't pick the school (ie acceptance letters). Granted you might pick from the 1 letter you got. (that was a joke). My point is... Where is the school spirit?

"Yeah, he was arrested with suspection of driving under the influence, however, A.T. Still is offering me a great education and I hate to see any faculty here repremanded by the law. GO KIRKSVILLE!!!"


Just my .02.

 

[KCOMStudent01]

Here is what is currently happening:

To All ATSU Faculty, Staff, and Students:

President James J. McGovern has requested and been granted a medical leave of absence by the Board of Trustees. The Board has asked Dr. Jack Magruder, president emeritus of Truman State University and a member of the ATSU Board of Trustees to assume the role of Acting President during Dr. McGovern’s leave. Dr. Magruder has resigned his position on ATSU’s board to take on this responsibility.

ATSU is a healthy and vibrant institution. Our commitment to students and our educational mission is stronger than ever. We have excellent leadership at all levels of our University and expect this transition to be seamless.

Dr. Magruder will begin his duties February 14, 2008. We ask you to keep the McGoverns in your thoughts and prayers.


Adrian Anast, PhD
Vice President, Communications & Marketing
ATSU

 

[Jwalker9]

yeah well i guess alcoholism is a sickness...? but i would have liked to have seen a more definitive response to the situation. I guess there is a fine line that you can't cross when speaking about the personal issues of a school president. However, alcoholism quickly becomes exempt from being a personal issue when you put other people lives at risk, have DUI pictures in the paper, etc.

 

[Cancer Man]

Here is a follow up story in the Kirksville newspaper.

http://www.kirksvilledailyexpress.com/articles/2008/02/11/news/news1.txt

 

[bth7]

Another similar follow-up story:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/02/11/daily20.html

What's the local feeling on campus regarding these developments?

I want some juicy gossip people!



bth

 

[olivetofu]

What a shame...I've always seen ATSU as such a prestigious school, one deservingly bearing the name of A.T. Still. It is a shame that a leader of theirs cannot demand responsibility for himself.

The courage of the OP, IMO, is a tribute to the hard-working students and staff at ATSU. I appreciate posts like these tremendously. It is so difficult to be this honest, especially voluntarily. Thanks.

 

[bth7]

Interesting commentary published today:

This summer one of Truman's own was recognized as one of the top physicians in the nation.

Dr. Gerald Osborn, professor of philosophy and doctor of osteopathy, was named in the top 5 percent of physicians in the U.S., according to the Northeast Missouri Health Council Inc. At Truman, he teaches ethics classes - primarily biomedical ethic - but also works in federal health programs in Kirksville.

Osborn said he was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, where his family doctor was a D.O. and offered a model that inspired Osborn.

Osborn said he worked for the Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine as dean for two years but decided to leave because of differences with the president of the college. He said that after resigning, he was planning to return to Michigan, but many of his friends on the Truman faculty encouraged him to come teach at Truman.

Original article:
Osborn gains status as top U.S. physician



bth

 

[AnnAnon]

Here's the latest email:

"Our previous president has a different leadership style than our current president. Both presidents place a high degree of emphasis on facilitating learning, mentoring students, and engaging students and faculty. Under previous leadership independent stakeholders, on occasion, were able to bypass the university structure and obtain action directly from the President's office. With this administration that approach will not happen [underlined for emphasis]. I encourage all to understand the Mission Statement and 5 year plan and frame requests to the appropriate line of authority. This will help with strategic budgeting, improving educational quality, and improve resource allocation..."

So basically, when you remove all the fluff, it's all about damage control. If you complain directly to the president about us, you are only hurting the school.

Thoughts?


The info on Dr. Osborn was interesting. Does anyone know what happened? This place has been hemorrhaging professors the last few years so I'm not surprised.

 

[Old Grunt]

What a shame...I've always seen ATSU as such a prestigious school, one deservingly bearing the name of A.T. Still. It is a shame that a leader of theirs cannot demand responsibility for himself.

I think it bears his name, because he in fact founded it.

At any rate, always a shame to see leadership adapt a "do as a say and not as I do" attitude. If you can't lead from the front and set the example, you have no business in your job.

I don't agree that students should be kicked out of school for DUIs. However, it that is the standard that KCOM has enacted, then it should apply to the faculty as well.

I can't believe that an environment would become so sceptic that students would fear for retribution for simply speaking out. If I was a KCOM student and was impeded in any way from my professional degree for speaking out against the administraion, I would retain legal council. KCOM might be a private institution, but you have essentially entered into a contract with them by paying tuition in which you have a reasonable expectation that you will receive a degree upon performing to a certain academic standard that has nothing to do with your personal opinion about the people running the joing.

You don't get to make your own rules simply because you are a private institution. Many medical schools are private and still have to show just cause for dis-enrolling a student.

 

[Cabbage]

people that drive drunk are total a$$holes and should not be given a second chance. too bad being in power negates any normally perceived moral obligations. I totally agree that the OP could sue the hell out of the school if he was kicked out and get mad chedda in the bank. I still respect KCOM a lot, but people always remember the bad before the good. I feel bad for the students and all those affiliated with the school. anyways, at least he wasn't videotaped smoking crack rocks. haha

 

[Cancer Man]

Here's the latest email:

"Under previous leadership independent stakeholders, on occasion, were able to bypass the university structure and obtain action directly from the President's office. With this administration that approach will not happen [underlined for emphasis]. I encourage all to understand the Mission Statement and 5 year plan and frame requests to the appropriate line of authority. This will help with strategic budgeting, improving educational quality, and improve resource allocation..."

I remember multiple incidents that probably spawned this section of the email. To be frank, the reason that the university structure was bypassed was that it didn't work and nothing got done. I remember one particular incident where only after it went to the president did anything get done.

The definition of insanity is doing things the same way over and over again and expecting different results. The reason these "independent stakeholders" went straight to the president, is because that's when things were addressed. Would you pursue a course of treatment if you knew that it was grossly ineffective?

I gained respect for McGovern when he took care of things that were being ignored by the layers of administration below him. I've gained more respect for him by his recent actions. It takes a big man to admit he has a problem. I sincerely hope he and his family are able to recover from recent events.

Some in this thread have asked what the local feeling is about this. The links to the newspaper articles have comment sections to them. That should tell you all you need to know.

Few outside the ATSU/KCOM community realize just how far and strong the reach of KCOM is in the area. That's why people keep their head down. I remember one student was dismissed for something like "unprofessional conduct." The lawyer couldn't really do much except try to make the best out of a bad situation.

 

[Beau Geste]

I'm not really sure what the political debate has to do with the ATSU prez, but anyway, he should be held to the same standards the students are held to in addition to the legal prosecution.

IMO.