ABPM CAQ in Podiatric Surgery

[HalluxSlicer]

Thoughts on ABPM's Certificate of Added Qualifications in Podiatric Surgery?

Is it common for those with ABPM to not practice surgery while ABFAS certified are mainly surgical heavy?? Opinions, thoughts, and ideas about this would definitely be helpful because there is a lot of confusion among students since we do not get much information about ABPM, ABFAS, qualifications, certifications, etc in Pod Schools

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[Pronation]

My thoughts are:

1) you didn't bother to search

2) you couldn't even be bothered to look at both stickied threads that discuss this unfortunate issue ad nauseam

3) toenail surgery is the most challenging aspect of podiatry

 

[air bud]

Thoughts on ABPM's Certificate of Added Qualifications in Podiatric Surgery?

Is it common for those with ABPM to not practice surgery while ABFAS certified are mainly surgical heavy?? Opinions, thoughts, and ideas about this would definitely be helpful because there is a lot of confusion among students since we do not get much information about ABPM, ABFAS, qualifications, certifications, etc in Pod Schools

Wait, what is going on? I have been working my a** off for the last few months and have been out of the loop.

 

[Pronation]

Wait, what is going on? I have been working my a** off for the last few months and have been out of the loop.

Due to the complexity, you have to get special board certification in total toenail replacement surgery now.

Also all toe amputations must now be referred to as life saving surgeries.

 

[heybrother]

Wait, what is going on? I have been working my a** off for the last few months and have been out of the loop.

Toe vs Wade was over turned and now we can only amputate toes if it saves the foot, but every state has different podiatry scope of practice. #saveatoesavealife

 

[PTPuser]

I died a little inside when a toe was hanging on by a little slough and the doc goes, "let's do another round of collagen, and we'll see you next week". I could taste the smell....but let's do another one...

 

[air bud]

Due to the complexity, you have to get special board certification in total toenail replacement surgery now.

Also all toe amputations must now be referred to as life saving surgeries.

Life preservation. We are now specialists in Diabetic Life Salvation.

 

[air bud]

Toe vs Wade was over turned and now we can only amputate toes if it saves the foot, but every state has different podiatry scope of practice. #saveatoesavealife

You mean Toe vs Wait?

 

[heybrother]

I died a little inside when a toe was hanging on by a little slough and the doc goes, "let's do another round of collagen, and we'll see you next week". I could taste the smell....but let's do another one...

 

[Pronation]

You mean Toe vs Wait?

There is absolutely no waiting when people's lives are on the line here.

Infected big toe. Temp 100.5, HR 91, WBC 12.1k. Time: 1AM

!!!! SEPSIS ALERT !!!!!

Toe amputated by 2AM by ultra highly trained foot & ankle surgeon. Can hear everybody breathe a sigh of relief in OR, another life saved. Send page to hospitalist letting them know that foot & ankle surgeon has saved the patient's life.

 

[CutsWithFury]

There is absolutely no waiting when people's lives are on the line here.

Infected big toe. Temp 100.5, HR 91, WBC 12.1k. Time: 1AM

!!!! SEPSIS ALERT !!!!!

Toe amputated by 2AM by ultra highly trained foot & ankle surgeon. Can hear everybody breathe a sigh of relief in OR, another life saved. Send page to hospitalist letting them know that foot & ankle surgeon has saved the patient's life.

I haven't done a late night case in years. Give them antibiotics. I'll see them in the morning

 

[Pronation]

I haven't done a late night case in years. Give them antibiotics. I'll see them in the morning

No way. This is life and death. The patient is clearly septic. Just look at the labs. Big time sepsis. This requires immediately running out of your house and straight into the OR to save their life. This is just what we do as foot & ankle surgeons that do highly complex things such as diabetic limb salvage.

/s

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Thoughts on ABPM's Certificate of Added Qualifications in Podiatric Surgery?

Is it common for those with ABPM to not practice surgery while ABFAS certified are mainly surgical heavy?? Opinions, thoughts, and ideas about this would definitely be helpful because there is a lot of confusion among students since we do not get much information about ABPM, ABFAS, qualifications, certifications, etc in Pod Schools

Board certification (BC) is technically voluntary, unlike licensure which is mandatory to practice. However, BC is often a required element of hospital and surgical privileging and employment.

CMS (Medicare) requires hospitals to follow certain rules when they are privileging doctors.

1. BC can’t be a sole criterion in privileging
2. If BC is a required element in privileging, it must be BC in one’s primary specialty

In podiatry, because there is a single training program, the 3-year PMSR, and at the culmination of that program you are eligible to sit for either ABPM or ABFAS, both are considered certification in your primary specialty of podiatry.

The CAQ in Podiatric Surgery is a distinction beyond primary BC. Hospitals are not supposed to require that for privileging, but some may. And it also may make it easier for you to get surgical privileges.

The CAQ is designed to test the standard of the surgical experience in a 3-year residency.

 

[podwho]

I can't wait for the super advanced certificate of qualification. By making an added level they inherently devalue the the board certification. Also who else in surgery has this nonsense? Why stop at one certificate? Let's just keep it going with foot vs rearfoot certificate. Then derm. Then sports med.

I'm board certified and have a certificate too! Hire me! See me instead of the other who's only"board certified"

Edit... Oh wow that's exactly what caq is and costs 500$ lolllllllllllll I can't with abpm.

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

The CAQ in Podiatric Surgery is a distinction beyond primary BC. Hospitals are not supposed to require that for privileging, but some may. And it also may make it easier for you to get surgical privileges.

Setting aside every major podiatry organization's less than positive response to the CAQ, this right here is going to be a huge problem created entirely by ABPM.
- Will ABPM take legal action/cease and desist on behalf of non-CAQ ABPM certified pods who have been denied surgical privileges, or will this now only be reserved for surgery CAQ holders?
- Does ABPM understand that if the latter were true, they would expose themselves to litigation from non-CAQ certified pods?
- Will ABPM support potential hospital requirements for added CAQ or, as you mentioned, is certification in one's primary specialty 'enough'?
- What does this say about ABPM's claim of their main certification process 'protecting the public' if now added qualifications will be required?
- How does this process do anything to address entire hospital systems (and even a state or two) where ABFAS requirements are written in their bylaws?
There will likely be hundreds more scenarios if this moves forward. Given ABMS doesn't recognize podiatry boards at all, I suspect the only way this CAQ would be required or help with privileges at a hospital is if a non-ABFAS certified, ABPM CAQ certified pod made it so. Would this pod deny privileges to non-CAQ holders? Probably. Will this whole process muddy the waters and further add to the confusion of the public and medical community of our certification process? Most definitely. Who wins here? Certainly not the public, or pods. I think we know the answer.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Setting aside every major podiatry organization's less than positive response to the CAQ, this right here is going to be a huge problem created entirely by ABPM.
- Will ABPM take legal action/cease and desist on behalf of non-CAQ ABPM certified pods who have been denied surgical privileges, or will this now only be reserved for surgery CAQ holders?
- Does ABPM understand that if the latter were true, they would expose themselves to litigation from non-CAQ certified pods?
- Will ABPM support potential hospital requirements for added CAQ or, as you mentioned, is certification in one's primary specialty 'enough'?
- What does this say about ABPM's claim of their main certification process 'protecting the public' if now added qualifications will be required?
- How does this process do anything to address entire hospital systems (and even a state or two) where ABFAS requirements are written in their bylaws?
There will likely be hundreds more scenarios if this moves forward. Given ABMS doesn't recognize podiatry boards at all, I suspect the only way this CAQ would be required or help with privileges at a hospital is if a non-ABFAS certified, ABPM CAQ certified pod made it so. Would this pod deny privileges to non-CAQ holders? Probably. Will this whole process muddy the waters and further add to the confusion of the public and medical community of our certification process? Most definitely. Who wins here? Certainly not the public, or pods. I think we know the answer.

I echo all your thoughts. I appreciate if @diabeticfootdr can give his thoughts on this and the potential ramifications of pushing this process through which in the simplest form - adds more confusion to the mix. I still don’t understand how it benefits the public.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

It's clear that this is just a backdoor way to sneak some non abfas docs to get privileged surgically. More smoke and mirrors until abfas docs recognize it and close down backdoor at their respective facilities. At least in many east coast hosptials most bylaws say abfas or bust.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Setting aside every major podiatry organization's less than positive response to the CAQ, this right here is going to be a huge problem created entirely by ABPM.
- Will ABPM take legal action/cease and desist on behalf of non-CAQ ABPM certified pods who have been denied surgical privileges, or will this now only be reserved for surgery CAQ holders?
- Does ABPM understand that if the latter were true, they would expose themselves to litigation from non-CAQ certified pods?
- Will ABPM support potential hospital requirements for added CAQ or, as you mentioned, is certification in one's primary specialty 'enough'?
- What does this say about ABPM's claim of their main certification process 'protecting the public' if now added qualifications will be required?
- How does this process do anything to address entire hospital systems (and even a state or two) where ABFAS requirements are written in their bylaws?
There will likely be hundreds more scenarios if this moves forward. Given ABMS doesn't recognize podiatry boards at all, I suspect the only way this CAQ would be required or help with privileges at a hospital is if a non-ABFAS certified, ABPM CAQ certified pod made it so. Would this pod deny privileges to non-CAQ holders? Probably. Will this whole process muddy the waters and further add to the confusion of the public and medical community of our certification process? Most definitely. Who wins here? Certainly not the public, or pods. I think we know the answer.

Let me be clear:

ABPM believes hospitals and institutions should follow the many laws, regulations, and standards that govern the privileging of providers.

Accordingly, privileges should be based on a providers education, training, and current experience.

Board certification is not required at all for surgical privileges and hospitals are prohibited from using it as the sole criterion in privileging decisions. However, if board certification is an element of privileging, it must be certification in one's primary specialty. A CAQ should never be required to perform any privilege. But a hospital may look upon that favorably in determining a provider's delineation of privileges.

The privileging process is convoluted and not uniform from state-to-state and hospital-to-hospital. Localities are empowered (and required) to enact policies that protect their patients, as long as they don't violate the law.

Protecting the Public:

Board certification isn't the only mechanism to protect the public. In fact, there are probably more than a dozen entities and processes that are charged with protecting the public, including:

Licensing Board Exams
State Licensure
State Laws
Federal Laws
CMS Conditions of Participation
Accrediting Bodies
Certifying Boards
Medical-Legal System (via malpractice suits)
Peer Review
Hospitals

The ABPM Certification Exam is a psychometrically-validated process that is a trusted element in this public protection mechanism.

The CAQ in Podiatric Surgery is utilizing the same processes. It follows the CAQ in Amputation Prevention and Wound Care which started in 2017 and the CAQ in Podiatric Sports Medicine which started in 2022.

We currently have more podiatrists signed up to take the CAQ in Podiatric Surgery than we do the other CAQs and our Board Certification. And the deadline isn't until January 15, 2023.

It's clear that this is just a backdoor way to sneak some non abfas docs to get privileged surgically. More smoke and mirrors until abfas docs recognize it and close down backdoor at their respective facilities. At least in many east coast hosptials most bylaws say abfas or bust.

This is not backdoor and your demeaning of the validated process by which CAQs are developed shows your lack of knowledge.

Any ABPM-certified DPM can submit for privileging assistance and we've fought every hospital that has discriminated against a diplomate and we have an entire list of victories. In most cases, requiring ABFAS certification only for podiatric surgery privileges is violating the law. We don't lose those cases. But recognize that we can't fight every case at the same time and it takes a diplomate to be a damaged party and complain about it for us to act. In spite of all this, in our surveys, a vast majority of hospitals recognized ABPM certification for the full scope of podiatric privileges.

And I'll close by asking you some questions: Who is sticking up for you? Is it ABFAS and their <36% pass rate? Does the President of ABFAS participate in this forum and take questions from students, residents, and practicing DPMs? Or is it ABPM who says we're not going to let the profession be strangled by a self-serving organization that is testing at a level beyond the standardized 3-year residency program?

If the standard tested is beyond your training, it conversely harms the public by limiting access to competent surgeons.

We will continue to do the right thing and move Podiatry Forward!

Thank you.

 

[Sweatshirt]

Until ABFAS can write a non-trash certification exam and stop failing docs for having screws 1 thread too long with case submission, they are and will continue to be trash in my eyes. And all the docs that are ABFAS gatekeepers are trash as well

I welcome competition against the 2 certifying bodies. May they best man win

 

[CutsWithFury]

Until ABFAS can write a non-trash certification exam and stop failing docs for having screws 1 thread too long with case submission, they are and will continue to be trash in my eyes. And all the docs that are ABFAS gatekeepers are trash as well

I welcome competition against the 2 certifying bodies. May they best man win

It’s not competition. The ABPM CAQ doesn’t solve anything. It just makes things more confusing.

How about we put real money behind making the scope of podiatry universal throughout the USA? That would be so much more productive and beneficial to the profession.

 

[podwho]

Let me be clear:

ABPM believes hospitals and institutions should follow the many laws, regulations, and standards that govern the privileging of providers.

Accordingly, privileges should be based on a providers education, training, and current experience.

Board certification is not required at all for surgical privileges and hospitals are prohibited from using it as the sole criterion in privileging decisions. However, if board certification is an element of privileging, it must be certification in one's primary specialty. A CAQ should never be required to perform any privilege. But a hospital may look upon that favorably in determining a provider's delineation of privileges.

The privileging process is convoluted and not uniform from state-to-state and hospital-to-hospital. Localities are empowered (and required) to enact policies that protect their patients, as long as they don't violate the law.

Protecting the Public:

Board certification isn't the only mechanism to protect the public. In fact, there are probably more than a dozen entities and processes that are charged with protecting the public, including:

Licensing Board Exams
State Licensure
State Laws
Federal Laws
CMS Conditions of Participation
Accrediting Bodies
Certifying Boards
Medical-Legal System (via malpractice suits)
Peer Review
Hospitals

The ABPM Certification Exam is a psychometrically-validated process that is a trusted element in this public protection mechanism.

The CAQ in Podiatric Surgery is utilizing the same processes. It follows the CAQ in Amputation Prevention and Wound Care which started in 2017 and the CAQ in Podiatric Sports Medicine which started in 2022.

We currently have more podiatrists signed up to take the CAQ in Podiatric Surgery than we do the other CAQs and our Board Certification. And the deadline isn't until January 15, 2023.


This is not backdoor and your demeaning of the validated process by which CAQs are developed shows your lack of knowledge.

Any ABPM-certified DPM can submit for privileging assistance and we've fought every hospital that has discriminated against a diplomate and we have an entire list of victories. In most cases, requiring ABFAS certification only for podiatric surgery privileges is violating the law. We don't lose those cases. But recognize that we can't fight every case at the same time and it takes a diplomate to be a damaged party and complain about it for us to act. In spite of all this, in our surveys, a vast majority of hospitals recognized ABPM certification for the full scope of podiatric privileges.

And I'll close by asking you some questions: Who is sticking up for you? Is it ABFAS and their <36% pass rate? Does the President of ABFAS participate in this forum and take questions from students, residents, and practicing DPMs? Or is it ABPM who says we're not going to let the profession be strangled by a self-serving organization that is testing at a level beyond the standardized 3-year residency program?

If the standard tested is beyond your training, it conversely harms the public by limiting access to competent surgeons.

We will continue to do the right thing and move Podiatry Forward!

Thank you.

Okay buy like why does it cost $500

Also I still didn't see anywhere in there why we NEED this. How is this not more complicated? You said hospital would look favorably when you have caq but don't NEED it. So why am I getting it? Are they not looking favorably on abpm certificate now? Why not just offer better services for abpm to fight for the privileges and make it more valuable? Now your just taking more money from pods rather than investing in them. The hell does a hospital care about advanced certificate? How exactly does this move the profession forward? How long until the next advanced degree and fees to renew certification for another 500 every year?

 

[HardRoadPaved]

This is not backdoor and your demeaning of the validated process by which CAQs are developed shows your lack of knowledge.

Our Goal​

To protect the health and welfare of the public through an ongoing process of evaluation and certification of the competence of podiatrists in the specialty of Podiatric Orthopedics and Primary Podiatric Medicine​

Sorry doc... I dont see anyhing about surgery in the goal posted on the website of your board. I just see a backdoor that's being opened and the over reaching of ABPM.

 

[Pronation]

I don’t see the president of ABFAS coming to this forum and whining about “disgruntled” members.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

It’s not competition. The ABPM CAQ doesn’t solve anything. It just makes things more confusing.

How about we put real money behind making the scope of podiatry universal throughout the USA? That would be so much more productive and beneficial to the profession.

A quick Constitutional Law lesson for you. The practice of medicine is not a federally enumerated power in the US Constitution. Therefore, it is left to the States. All of medicine; MD, DO, DDS, and DPM, etc. The scope is actually different for MDs as well in each state (i.e. radiation and some drugs), albeit more minor differences than exist with DPM, DDS, NP, PA, PT, and DC amongst the states. And this is not unique to the US. Provinces in Canada and Countries across the Commonwealth also have different scopes.

And while I think you know this, the ABPM is the only organization putting meaningful resources behind eliminating discrimination of DPMs in state laws. We were prepared to file a lawsuit vs. the Oregon Medical Board until the Board decided to address the discriminatory treatment of DPMs by Board Certification. I testified in hearings and provided commentary and evidence for the State. The OMB meets again in January for a final decision and then we’ll decide how to proceed from there.

And we will be filing a lawsuit against the State of New York for similar discriminatory practices that seem to benefit only ~34 out of 2116 in the state.

Again, the argument is that not only are these laws discriminatory against ABPM and our diplomates, they treat all podiatrists differently by requiring board certification for some aspect of licensure, something not required of any MD/DO.

And lastly, if you feel so strongly about these issues, what have you done to improve the situation? Have you joined your local, state society? Are you on a committee? Do you visit with your state and federal legislators and tell them about podiatry?

You can take the easy road by just complaining on SDN or you can be part of the solution.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Okay buy like why does it cost $500

All CAQ exams are $295. If you need to submit cases it’s an additional $200. If you are already an ABPM Diplomate, there is no annual increase in your dues and no MOC fees. That’s it. A one time fee of $295 or $495.

Why you ask.

This exam has been in development for 2 years in the following process (as for any of our exams):

- Convene a Committee of Subject Matter Experts
- Create an Exam Blueprint (Content Outline)
- Item Writing (experts write questions and then they review as an exam committee)
- Field Testing (other subject matter experts not involved in the content writing take the exam)
- Field Test Item Analysis (consultant psychometrists analyze the results and provide the data to the committee)
- Adjust the Exam Based on the Field Test
- Construct the Actual Exam Based on the Blueprint
- Administer the Exam by PearsonVue
- Exam Analysis (psychometrists analyze results and make recommendations on items)
- Exam is Scored
- Final Validation Report by the psychometrists
- Standard Setting for Future Exams

Why the additional $200 for Case Review.

ABPM actually pays committee members and subject matter experts $200 to review and score the cases.

I think that’s pretty fair and we will continue to be fair.

 

[AttackNME]

If anyone reading this forum is confused, read this first:

Is Board Certification Overrated?

There’s less evidence of its value it than you might think. Board certification: it’s expensive and time-consuming. And it’s almost as much a necessity for practicing medicine today as a medical degree. Certification is a prerequisite for privileges at most hospitals and for credentialing by...

www.roswellpark.org

Then this:

Board Certification as Prerequisite for Hospital Staff Privileges

Case Dr. Mancini, the hospital director, called an unscheduled meeting of all medical staff. "I know the rumors have been flying," he said. "And you will be receiving formal policy statements and guidelines about this, but I wanted to first speak to you all, give you the news straight, and take...

journalofethics.ama-assn.org

Then this:

Board certification (BC) is technically voluntary, unlike licensure which is mandatory to practice. However, BC is often a required element of hospital and surgical privileging and employment.

CMS (Medicare) requires hospitals to follow certain rules when they are privileging doctors.

1. BC can’t be a sole criterion in privileging
2. If BC is a required element in privileging, it must be BC in one’s primary specialty

In podiatry, because there is a single training program, the 3-year PMSR, and at the culmination of that program you are eligible to sit for either ABPM or ABFAS, both are considered certification in your primary specialty of podiatry.

The CAQ in Podiatric Surgery is a distinction beyond primary BC. Hospitals are not supposed to require that for privileging, but some may. And it also may make it easier for you to get surgical privileges.

The CAQ is designed to test the standard of the surgical experience in a 3-year residency.

I think we might be getting a little too heated over board cert, it doesn’t seem to matter as much as I thought it did. Podiatrists in the United States are so much more advanced than the rest of the world, and we are evolving at a RAPID pace. These problems we are facing now are a natural step in this evolution.

 

[Sweatshirt]

It’s not competition. The ABPM CAQ doesn’t solve anything. It just makes things more confusing.

How about we put real money behind making the scope of podiatry universal throughout the USA? That would be so much more productive and beneficial to the profession.

Of course it's competition. As a younger physician why would I bother wasting time and money on ABFAS when 1) It's a trash exam, certification process, and organization... and 2) my current and future hospital does not require ABFAS

If ABFAS loses enough people to ABPM then they will lose money and be forced to update their policies and certification process or else they'll die off. Competition is good

 

[icebreaker32]

Of course it's competition. As a younger physician why would I bother wasting time and money on ABFAS when 1) It's a trash exam, certification process, and organization... and 2) my current and future hospital does not require ABFAS

If ABFAS loses enough people to ABPM then they will lose money and be forced to update their policies and certification process or else they'll die off. Competition is good

Most still end up working for themselves and it really does not matter in many parts of the country if you are board certified by ABFAS or ABPM....or actually if you are board certified at all honestly.

The reason all this matters is the politics of out profession to an extent, but mainly because the job market sucks.

Want a good job?

ABPM......better get that CAQ in surgery and do a limb salvage fellowship.

ABFAS.....more have Foot than they ever used to, so you better have done that fellowship or have RRA also.

If you do not have the above you better have connections or go to the Dakotas.

You can also still open your office like you always could, but the profession does not market itself like that and if they did I am unsure how many applicants really want to be a small business owner.

If we could agree on one board it would be great, but even better would be to and cut the supply of podiatrists in half. The training and job market would be so much better for all.

Look at primary care, more DOs, more NPs, more PAs, more foreign doctors and still a shortage of PCPs.

We were either lied to or our leaders were just wrong. Aging boomers and diabetes did not create a shortage of podiatrists like we were told.....the job market sucks about the same as it used to a generation ago.

 

[Feli]

Of course it's competition. As a younger physician why would I bother wasting time and money on ABFAS when 1) It's a trash exam, certification process, and organization... and 2) my current and future hospital does not require ABFAS

If ABFAS loses enough people to ABPM then they will lose money and be forced to update their policies and certification process or else they'll die off. Competition is good

This is the choice that's been there awhile.

ABFAS will never hurt you.

...Who is sticking up for you? Is it ABFAS and their <36% pass rate? Does the President of ABFAS participate in this forum and take questions from students, residents, and practicing DPMs? ...

I think ABFAS has 1yr president term limits... you know, so things don't get out of hand?

 

[diabeticfootdr]

I think ABFAS has 1yr president term limits... you know, so things don't get out of hand?

Touché

 

[msion]

I don’t see the president of ABFAS coming to this forum and whining about “disgruntled” members.

ABFAS will just send letters to hospital admin telling them it's the only acknowledged board certification for podiatrists, and anyone without that ABFAS board shouldn't be granted hospital privileges.

 

[Steveington]

ABFAS will just send letters to hospital admin telling them it's the only acknowledged board certification for podiatrists, and anyone without that ABFAS board shouldn't be granted hospital privileges.

Whoa! Did they do this? That's terrible

 

[icebreaker32]

Whoa! Did they do this? That's terrible

Would not be surprised if they send letters stating they are they only recognized board for surgery which is technically true.

There are lots of others boards than just ABPM and ABFAS out there. ABFAS has been around longer than when all residents had surgical residences or all students even had residencies.

We need to eventually find a way to have training and one board that both have legitimate standards and a higher pass rate.

The debate on ABFAS versus ABPM is a worthy discussion, but no where close to the importance of a debate about on why after 7-8 years of training does the job market suck so bad for podiatry. The reason is severe saturation. It does not mean you can not create your own job, but it makes finding a good job very difficult. Solo practice is an option, but a less desirable one every year, which makes the discussion that much more important.

If I was a residency graduate I would rather enter an MD (RN, PA, NP etc) like job market on track for ABPM than than be a fellow on track for ABFAS RRA in the podiatry job market.

We need this discussion with our leaders and schools not just on this forum. All they can do is punt and point to an average salary survey, name a few shinning stars and show lots of glossy pictures of surgery, which does nothing to deal with the job market a recent residency graduate will face.

Supply far outweighs demand for good jobs. The first job is a very, very important consideration for any profession. A good job for podiatry is like graduating from generic state university in finance and trying get a job in investment banking on Wall Street….not happening without some luck, connections or something that sets you apart. You better be fellowship trained at a top program in total toenail replacement surgery if you want to give yourself the best chance possible at a good job in this profession. The extra training and credentials are usually not really needed to perform well in the job you will get. It is needed to get the job in the job market you will face. I guess being fellowship trained in total toenail replacement surgery….I really mean total ankle replacement surgery……is the "Harvard" of the podiatry world. The job market is not only good, but great for the "generic state universities" of the world in many other healthcare professions.

 

[Pronation]

Would not be surprised if they send letters stating they are they only recognized board for surgery which is technically true.

There are lots of others boards than just ABPM and ABFAS out there. ABFAS has been around longer than when all residents had surgical residences or all students even had residencies.

We need to eventually find a way to have training and one board that both have legitimate standards and a higher pass rate.

The debate on ABFAS versus ABPM is a worthy discussion, but no where close to the importance of a debate about on why after 7-8 years of training does the job market suck so bad for podiatry. The reason is severe saturation. It does not mean you can not create your own job, but it makes finding a good job very difficult. Solo practice is an option, but a less desirable one every year, which makes the discussion that much more important.

If I was a residency graduate I would rather enter an MD (RN, PA, NP etc) like job market on track for ABPM than than be a fellow on track for ABFAS RRA in the podiatry job market.

We need this discussion with our leaders and schools not just on this forum. All they can do is punt and point to an average salary survey, name a few shinning stars and show lots of glossy pictures of surgery, which does nothing to deal with the job market a recent residency graduate will face.

Supply far outweighs demand for good jobs. The first job is a very, very important consideration for any profession. A good job for podiatry is like graduating from generic state university in finance and trying get a job in investment banking on Wall Street….not happening without some luck, connections or something that sets you apart. You better be fellowship trained at a top program in total toenail replacement surgery if you want to give yourself the best chance possible at a good job in this profession. The extra training and credentials are usually not really needed to perform well in the job you will get. It is needed to get the job in the job market you will face. I guess being fellowship trained in total toenail replacement surgery….I really mean total ankle replacement surgery……is the "Harvard" of the podiatry world. The job market is not only good, but great for the "generic state universities" of the world in many other healthcare professions.

I can tell you that hospitals couldn’t care less if you’re trained in TARs. They want to know if you’re ok with doing what none of the other surgical specialties want to deal with, which is slaying diabetic foot pus. If you’re ok with this then welcome to the $350k+ per year club, if you’re selected out of 100+ applicants.

 

[icebreaker32]

I can tell you that hospitals couldn’t care less if you’re trained in TARs. They want to know if you’re ok with doing what none of the other surgical specialties want to deal with, which is slaying diabetic foot pus. If you’re ok with this then welcome to the $350k+ per year club, if you’re selected out of 100+ applicants.

While I am not disagreeing, there are different employed hospital settings. The typical might be to take lots of call and be production based, there are also settings where hospital systems employee many podiatrists that take little call and are compensated either strictly on production after a couple years or sometimes base and bonus. For a true pus only job, I would think a diabetic limb salvage fellowship would look good, but any fellowship might sadly look better than none.

As far as getting the interview/job hometown connections often go a long way also.