ABPS Test

[footdoctor]

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I will be taking my ABPS forefoot and rearfoot qualifying test in June. I was wondering if anyone who has previously taken this exam has any helful tips on studying and preparing for this exam. Thank You

 

[Darklord]

I'm a prepod but do you have those expensive-published study materials?

 

[dpmgrad]

I will be taking my ABPS forefoot and rearfoot qualifying test in June. I was wondering if anyone who has previously taken this exam has any helful tips on studying and preparing for this exam. Thank You

I took the Goldfarb Foundation Board Review course when I was preparing for the ABPS board exams. It was very helpful. You get the Hershey Manual, Boards by the Numbers, and lecture notes plus written and oral mock exams. Unfortunately, the Goldfarb Foundation Board Review course was back in February. They give the course early so that candidates have time to work on areas that they are weak at.

On the Goldfarb Foundation website, there is also a written exam board review CD by Dr. Goss. This was also very helpful. Since I was a resident in the Philadelphia area, I attended Dr. Goss' weekly academic sessions, which included all of the powerpoint presentations and the exams on the CD. Hence, I did not have to purchase the CD since I already went through that material already.

The recently graduated residents and I got questions from this classic article on both the foot surgery and reconstructive rearfoot surgery written exams. You should read this article and know it well.

Astion DJ, Deland JT, Otis JC, Kenneally S: Motion of the hindfoot after simulated arthrodesis. J. Bone Joint Surg Am: 1997 Feb; 79 (2): 241-6.

It is one of the required articles to read during my residency training.

If you PM me, I will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have about the exam and share with you any pointers. Good luck on your exam.

 

[PADPM]

footdoctor,

Not to be "picky", but I really need to correct a common error regarding the ABPS exam. I was an examiner for the oral portion of the ABPS exam for 10 years, so I'm pretty well versed on the entire process.

Contrary to your post, there is NO "forefoot" examination. There is a "foot" examination and rearfoot/reconstructive, but no "forefoot". Many candidates are often surprised during the foot exam when there are rearfoot procedures or more complicated procedures on that portion of the exam.

The questions on that portion of the examination are not limited to the "forefoot" but encompass the ENTIRE foot, and the last time I looked, the calcaneus, talus, etc., were included in the foot. So please be prepared no matter which exam you take.

When doctors are certified by the ABPS, there is NO certificate that says "forefoot", but there are certificates that say "FOOT".

I think you've got my point.

Regardless, good luck on the exam and do not keep studying the morning of the exam. If you wake up and are STILL studying, you're not ready. You should be able to wake up, eat breakfast and take the exam without cramming.

Relax, prepare ahead of time and you'll do fine. And don't ask anyone else what how they answered questions following the exam or you'll drive yourself crazy.

 

[phillypd]

PADPM-

Is your job really sweet? I was just wondering, cause your always on here. I was wondering if your retired or just supervising?... I didn't think that any of the doctors had this much time to be scrolling thru message boards...
I want your job!!!!!!!!😀

 

[PADPM]

phillypd,

Take a look at the times of the majority of my posts. They are usually pretty early in the am or late in the p.m. On occasion, if I have a break in the day I will post from my office.

I doubt if you want my "sweet" schedule. I work very long hours and start early in the morning SIX days a week, and work two evenings a week. Sometimes if I get to the office early, I'll write a post or two, or when I get home I'll write a post or two before eating dinner.

But I can assure you that I'm far from retired and I'm not in a supervisory role. Each one of the docs in our practice works long hours and we are presently looking for another associate to help handle the work load.

Sorry, no slacking here. I just FIND the time for everything I do, including work, leisure and play.


(by the way, the word is "you're", not "your" when you state "you're always on here".) Just thought I'd let you know so that one day when you write a letter to another professional, YOUR grammar is correct.

 

[allenmarchallo]

phillypd,



(by the way, the word is "you're", not "your" when you state "you're always on here".) Just thought I'd let you know so that one day when you write a letter to another professional, YOUR grammar is correct.

Dr. PADPM,

You're forgetting one of the most basic rules in using quotations. Periods always go inside the quotation marks. 😉

But it's ok sinse wurr on da internet & no1 usually writes propurr english.

(Hope you can enjoy a good )

 

[PADPM]

allenmarchallo,

There's a huge difference between a quick typo when writing a response in a hurry such as my misplaced period, vs. a constant grammatical error regarding the use of the wrong use of a word.

On this site, posters are constantly using "your" instead of "you're" and "their" instead of "they're", etc. As future professionals they really should know the difference.

 

[phillypd]

allenmarchallo,

There's a huge difference between a quick typo when writing a response in a hurry such as my misplaced period, vs. a constant grammatical error regarding the use of the wrong use of a word.

On this site, posters are constantly using "your" instead of "you're" and "their" instead of "they're", etc. As future professionals they really should know the difference.

Only you would say something....... Don't worry, I use proper letter writing when need be. This is not a professional venue...so when in Rome you do what the Romans do.....😱

 

[PADPM]

Not a professional venue???? Oh, I'm sorry, I always consider myself a professional so forgive me for my error.

 

[Darklord]

The period isn't a big deal. I actually think it can go inside or outside. I'll double check with my English professor this week.

Commonly confused words are more important.

 

[PMSIII]

I have a question regarding that (qualifying) exam as well. How involved is the NBPME with the ABPS qualifying exam? And in what capacity?

Thank you

 

[PADPM]

I believe that the NBPME has absolutely nothing to do with the ABPS examination. The ABPS has it's own examination committee that is solely (no pun intended) responsible for the questions on the written and oral examinations, and works with a testing company to make sure that it's exams are statistically relevant and scoring/means/standard deviation/median and all that other testing jargon is "kosher".

Additionally, the actual written test is taken by some of the examiners prior to being given to the candidates to look for flawed questions, etc., and similarly, the oral questions are also "beta tested" prior to the actual examination. It is a very long process prior to the actual implementation of the real examination.

However, even with this process, it's not unusual for some questions to actually get tossed if statistically there are too many candidates having a problem with that particular question. It may be a problem with interpretation, ambiguity, etc. So the actual testing process is really relatively fair.

 

[NatCh]

.............

 

[PADPM]

Interestingly, the oral exam is starting to also go "computer". That's when I decided to no longer volunteer as an oral examiner for the exam. I was very aware of the computer interactive process, and did not agree with the computer model for the oral portion of the exam.

Those that support the computer state that it takes all subjectivity out of the exam, and will also save the ABPS and candidates considerable money. It will allow the ABPS to administer the exam at several locations instead of just Chicago, which means it will not have to pay for the airfare, food and lodging of all the ABPS examiners (examiner do not get paid for their actual time, just for their expenses as mentioned). It will also save candidates considerable money since the exam can be given regionally via computers, therefore they won't have to spend money on travel expenses, hotels, etc.

However, as someone that was an examiner, I still can not support the exam with good conscience. There still needs to be a human side to the oral portion of the exam, after all we are still humans treatiing humans and that's what the oral portion of the exam is really testing.

There are MANY candidates that I passed over the years that would have definitely failed a computer based "oral" examination. No, I did not give them any unfair advantage or give away any answers. These were bright doctors that KNEW the answer and I sensed that as another "human", and as such, I drew the answer out of them. I gave them NOTHING.

Often, when moving on to another "point to pass" in a particular question, a candidate would suddenly recall some information that was pertinent to a previous "point to pass" and go back and give me that answer. In some computer situations, that's NOT possible, since you need to make a choice in order to move on to the NEXT "point to pass" and there's no turning back.

We're all nervous when taking the exam, and sometimes some information we know suddenly "pops" into our head and then we ask the examiner if it's OK to go back to a particular point. And in some computer questions that's possible and in many you would have simply failed.

There are dozens of other examples of when a candidate gave me AMAZING anwers that may have differed slightly from the "acceptable" answers on my list of "points to pass". However, the candidates answers were just as valid as the ABPS "points to pass". Therefore, how could I fail this candidate? The computer would fail him....period.

A overly simplified example would be if one of the answers to a question was that a proximal procedure had to be performed. And a second point to pass was to name 2 proximal procedure out of the 3 listed by the ABPS. The ABPS listed a closing base wedge, an opening base wedge and a Lapidus. Then the candidate says.." a closing base wedge, an opening base wedge and a cresentic base osteotomy".

The ABPS didn't list cresentic base osteotomy as a proximal procedure in it's list of 3, but it's certainly valid and acceptable, but it's NOT on their list.

Would YOU fail the candidate for a completely valid answer??? Yes, I could continue to "probe" him until he says Lapidus, but he did give me a completely valid answer, so in this case I would pass the candidate since he obviously knew the material, and I would not fail him based on this ABPS omission.

However, the computer would have failed him on this point.

So that's why I can not support the computer model for the oral portion of the ABPS exam. There must be some form of subjectivity, since medicine is certainly not black and white, as long as that subjectivity does not involve emotion.

 

[NatCh]

.............

 

[PADPM]

NatCH,

You're preaching to the choir. I'm a man of principles, therefore opted not to return as an examiner since I didn't like the way the test was headed. I could not justify the use of the computer for the oral exam since I did not believe it allowed for the interaction that is mandatory to truly determine whether a candidate is fully capable of answering a question.

I do not accept mediocrity and will walk away if I don't believe in a system....therefore I walked. The ABPS was too excited and too eager to incorporate technology, and they forgot about the human factor.

 

[krabmas]

The period isn't a big deal. I actually think it can go inside or outside. I'll double check with my English professor this week.

Commonly confused words are more important.

If the complete sentence is contained in the quotes then the punctuation goes inside the quotes. If the sentence is a statement and followed by who said the statement then the comma goes inside the quotes and the period at the end of the sentence. Questions and exclamations are different.

 

[NatCh]

NatCH,

You're preaching to the choir. I'm a man of principles, therefore opted not to return as an examiner since I didn't like the way the test was headed. I could not justify the use of the computer for the oral exam since I did not believe it allowed for the interaction that is mandatory to truly determine whether a candidate is fully capable of answering a question.

I do not accept mediocrity and will walk away if I don't believe in a system....therefore I walked. The ABPS was too excited and too eager to incorporate technology, and they forgot about the human factor.

When does the ABPS intend to start using computer-based oral exams?

 

[PADPM]

They have already started. I believe they have integrated computer based oral exams into the test already, and the present examination has some "human" based oral questions and some computer based questions.

If I'm correct, the plan was to eventually phase into a completely computer based oral exam once all the kinks were worked out.

 

[podpal]

Is the pass/fail rate the same with the new computer model, as compared to the older oral exam? Wouldn't there be less examiner bias via a computer model? As an examiner, did you see pass/fails based on who a candidate was rather than what they knew or do you believe it was unbiased? In your opinion is it worth it to go for ABPS certification if your position doesn't require it, ie hospitals & insurance companies do not require it and it doesn't affect one's bottom line?

 

[NatCh]

In your opinion is it worth it to go for ABPS certification if your position doesn't require it, ie hospitals & insurance companies do not require it and it doesn't affect one's bottom line?

I know you were asking PADPM, but in my opinion ABPS cred would be worth it if for no other reason to remove the possibility of it becoming an issue at some point in your future. Your job might not require ABPS credentials now, but what if that were to change several years out? By then, if you haven't been working on your logs and other credentialing materials you may be hosed.

 

[PADPM]

I do not know the pass/fail rate since some of the computer based questions have been implemented, but those numbers are readily available from the ABPS.

I don't believe that pass/fail had anything to do with "who a candidate was" since I had no idea who a candidate was when I interviewed him/her. There is supposed to be total anonymity. Let me explain....

A few weeks prior to the exam, each examiner is sent a list of candidates taking the exam. The examiner is supposed to cross anyone off the list that is a friend, relative, competitor, former resident, partner, associate, etc., etc. However, I'm sure that some unscrupulous examiner in the past has "pushed through" a former resident or current associate, etc. However, that is DEFINITELY the exception and not the rule, because you never know what candidates are going to be randomly assigned to you as an examiner. It's basically pot luck.

As an examiner, the only control you have is who you cross OFF your list, but you can not pick who you WILL examine. The odds that you will actually examine someone you want to is very, very slim.

And once a candidate enters your room, there is not supposed to be any "small talk". You can certainly be polite, but you are not to ask or speak about any personal information. You can't ask a candidate about his/her past training, where he/she trained, how many years he/she trained, how many years he/she has been in practice, etc.

The "small talk" is really about the weather and other B.S. The candidate isn't allowed to ask the examiner about his/her practice or personal information.

So, the bottom line is that there really should be NO bias, because the examiner should really no NOTHING about the candidate other than the candidate's personal appearance and knowledge during the exam.

And yes, I would always recommend obtaining any credentials such as the ABPS while you can, because you never know when that will be required and it's a decision you never want to regret in the future.

It will never hurt you to have those credentials, that's something I can guarantee.

 

[podpal]

Thanks for the responses. Is it less work to go for the ABPOPPM certification? ABPOPPM board cert will still allow a pod to become a residency director, have surgical privilages, and be recognized by insurance companies. ABPS cert seems like a longer haul and a pain in the rear to maintain. Practitioners I know who are ABPOPPM cert seem happy with the status and the board. Practitioners I know who have ABPS cert or qualification seem to complain about the process substantially more.

With the residency shortage coming up in 2010 and 2011, ABPS will seem like an old boys network. It already does to many pods who weren't so lucky to get surgical programs. Even those who have surgical training cannot get the surgical cases needed in practice and end up in a cycle of struggle.

There should be another means to achieve ABPS certification, such as through workshops with cadaver specimens to learn surgical technique. These already exist and are excellent programs. The profession should allow everyone the same post grad training or implement and alternate training forum so that everyone gets the same shot at board certification.

 

[NatCh]

Thanks for the responses. Is it less work to go for the ABPOPPM certification? ABPOPPM board cert will still allow a pod to become a residency director, have surgical privilages, and be recognized by insurance companies. ABPS cert seems like a longer haul and a pain in the rear to maintain. Practitioners I know who are ABPOPPM cert seem happy with the status and the board. Practitioners I know who have ABPS cert or qualification seem to complain about the process substantially more.

With the residency shortage coming up in 2010 and 2011, ABPS will seem like an old boys network. It already does to many pods who weren't so lucky to get surgical programs. Even those who have surgical training cannot get the surgical cases needed in practice and end up in a cycle of struggle.

There should be another means to achieve ABPS certification, such as through workshops with cadaver specimens to learn surgical technique. These already exist and are excellent programs. The profession should allow everyone the same post grad training or implement and alternate training forum so that everyone gets the same shot at board certification.

The ABPS credentialing process does require an awful lot of detail, and I don't understand the need for some of their requirements. For instance, when you submit an x-ray you also have to submit a letter verifying that you have not altered it. It seems to me that if a person were going to alter an x-ray, he or she could just as easily lie on the verification letter. You also have to submit a letter from your surgical facilities stating that you do have privileges there, which is fine, but the letter must be notarized. The person at my surgical facility that takes care of such letters told me that none of the other (non-podiatric) surgeons' certifying boards require that their letters be notarized; they just need a letter. When you submit x-rays the instructions say to mark the x-rays with specifically a 2" x 1" adhesive label. Have you ever tried to find a 2" x 1" piece of label? It's not a standard size. There was also a recent discussion asking why an applicant must log every single case he or she does versus just the cases applicable to the board certification process.

Nonetheless, the ABPS is pretty much recognized as THE surgical certifying board for our profession. Whether fair or not, some hospitals (mine, for instance) specifically mandate ABPS credentials. They do not recognize other certifying boards.

I did not apply for ABPOPPM credentials but I did once take a quick look at their requirements. They did not require the surgical caseload that ABPS does, but they still required submission of several case histories. It still appeared to be a significant amount of work, so in my opinion if you are to go to the trouble of preparing for either certifying board then make it ABPS and you will be covered regardless of where you work. I do not know if it is justified or not, but I get the feeling that the primary reason for applying for the ABPOPPM board is that one does not have the surgical caseload for the ABPS board requirement. If you do have the surgical caseload for the ABPS board then you may as well obtain that credential and cover your butt.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Thanks for the responses. Is it less work to go for the ABPOPPM certification? ABPOPPM board cert will still allow a pod to become a residency director, have surgical privilages, and be recognized by insurance companies. ABPS cert seems like a longer haul and a pain in the rear to maintain. Practitioners I know who are ABPOPPM cert seem happy with the status and the board. Practitioners I know who have ABPS cert or qualification seem to complain about the process substantially more.

I am ABPOPPM certified and happy with it. It was not "easier" knowledge-wise from the ABPS, but it was less superfluous BS and chest thumping.

I was qualified in ABPS and I just resigned my status this year, since they implemented a new rule that you have to log all of your cases (whether you intend to use them or not) into an online logging system called Residency Resource. This is a very time consuming process and ABPS did not give the qualified members any say or advanced notice of the change. Coincidentally, Residency Resource is owned by ABPS.

ABPOPPM and ACFAOM are down to earth organizations that are less expensive than ABPS and ACFAS. You are still a "board certified podiatrist" by an organization that is recognized by APMA.

 

[PADPM]

As someone who IS board certified by the ABPS and someone who DID serve as an examiner for the oral examination for many years, I can tell you that there is a definite "good 'ol boy" attitude among a significant number of the current upper echelon in the ABPS.

It is not a user friendly organization, and they have busted the stones of many candidates and residency programs. I know of several residency programs that were shut down for ridiculous reasons, rather than being helped by the ABPS. Ultimately this meant less residency positions for the graduating students.

And I've already spoken in other posts about the crap about the "good 'ol boys" creating the re-certification requirement to "assure" the public that the certification process means something and to "assure" public safety, yet those that implemented the rule grandfathered themselves in so they don't have to take a REAL exam, but simply take a self assessment exam, therefore there is NO chance they can possibly lose THEIR certification.

Of course they always set TWO standards. Those for the "other guys" and those for themselves.

And once again remember, I AM ABPS certified and I was an examiner. I do know B.S. when I see it, and that's why I decided to stop flying out to Chicago and listen to the crap from these guys each year.

I still believe the ABPS credential is important, but that does not negate the importance of the orthopedic/primary podiatric medicine board.

 

[NatCh]

...........

 

[Darklord]

= I can tell you that there is a definite "good 'ol boy" attitude among a significant number of the current upper echelon in the ABPS.

I hope those good ol' boys are dead or retired by the time I become a podiatrist (10 years from now). 😎

 

[PADPM]

Do me and yourself a favor as a future "medical" professional....don't ever wish anyone were dead, especially if it is for your benefit. Even if it's a joke, it's in poor taste.

 

[cool_vkb]

Do me and yourself a favor as a future "medical" professional....don't ever wish anyone were dead, especially if it is for your benefit. Even if it's a joke, it's in poor taste.

👍

Plus i dont understand why preeeeeee pods put their noses in questions like "ABPS", "surgical procedures" , "residency reviews", etc . A Topic like medical practice or salary definetly makes sense. but prepods advising or questioning attendings is really amusing and i must say "Stupid"!.

I have nothing against prepods and i strongly encourage all prepods to do every possible research and question evry small discrepancy you see when making a career choice. but contributing useless and silly posts deviates the thread from its orignal topic and wastes everybody's time.

I hope moderators block prepods from posting in residency/attending forums. not because they are prepods but because there are somethings which we learn when we are in Pod school. people not yet in school have no idea what the heck they are blabbering or questioning especially on topics that are based on boards, abps, medical procedures,etc etc.

 

[Darklord]

My apologies Cool_Vkb and PADPM.

I guess what I meant to say is that I hope certification boards progress in terms of accessibility and become more "down to earth" by the time I enter the profession, if I enter it. I don't wish to ABPS "good ol' boys" to die, I just hope that they are out of the profession soon, so that podiatry can progress, as it has, hence the

or retired 😎

Cook_vkb, I never advised or questioned any attendings (though I do to podiatry students occasionally), nor would I think of doing so. I merely intended to make a "crude joke", which was relevant to the topic. Such comments on PADPM's part have lead to interesting discussions, such as about watches. Nevertheless, I will abstain from posting in such threads if you wish.

Peace 🙂
Darklord

 

[cool_vkb]

Cook_vkb, I never advised or questioned any attendings (though I do to podiatry students occasionally), nor would I think of doing so. I merely intended to make a "crude joke", which was relevant to the topic. Such comments on PADPM's part have lead to interesting discussions, such as about watches. Nevertheless, I will abstain from posting in such threads if you wish.

Peace 🙂
Darklord

mere bhai it was not pointed towards you. some other prepod asked PADPM where does he finds time to post all these valuable info. and mocked about his practice,etc. i was addressing that.

Attendings posting their experience and insight is a blessing for us. lets not create conditions where they might start leaving or find posting here as a pointless thing because whenever some important post comes up, a prepod has to be present to ruin the moment for us. Remember that DO-DPM thread war few months back when some fellow went in their thread and diverted the whole topic.

just browse thru the present topic/thread. every person is seriously discussing the topic of ABPS and waam we have a bunch of people posting useless things. its a big distraction to the reader.

 

[cool_vkb]

Speaking of that, I asked the Chief of Credentialing at my hospital why they decided to mandate ABPS credentials over any of the other certifying boards. His response? He knew one of the founding fathers of ABPS from Residency and called him. The ABPS founding father told him that ABPS was the best. No chance for bias there, hey?

Isnt ABPS for surgery? how can ABOPPM or whatever the board is for ortho & medicine (sorry i dont remember the exact abbreviation) replace ABPS credentials. i was thinking ABPS is for surgeons and ABOPPM etc are for non-surgery.

 

[NatCh]

Isnt ABPS for surgery? how can ABOPPM or whatever the board is for ortho & medicine (sorry i dont remember the exact abbreviation) replace ABPS credentials. i was thinking ABPS is for surgeons and ABOPPM etc are for non-surgery.

You are correct that the ABPS is recognized as our surgery-oriented board, but remember that not everyone wishes to be surgery-intensive, and the ABPS is not the only board recognized by our profession and the APMA. The problem is when you have a hospital that specifies ABPS credentials versus merely being "Board Certified or Eligible."

I'll see if I can elucidate the problem rather than obfuscate:

Many insurance companies and malpractice carriers require that one be "board certified" or working towards it. In addition, they may mandate that one have hospital privileges.

So say you are a podiatrist who is competent but either does not desire or cannot obtain ABPS certification. An example would be someone who wants a sports medicine or diabetic wound care-focused practice who does not do the wide range of surgeries needed for ABPS requirements. You might be the best and busiest doc in the region for prescribing orthotics let's say, and don't really care to enter an operating room.

What happens next:

1. You might be competent and Board Certified but not ABPS Certified
2. You therefore cannot maintain hospital privileges
3. You therefore cannot maintain membership on insurance provider panels
4. You lose your malpractice insurance coverage
5. Your business fails
6. You become a disgruntled DPM

As an example, our own Dr. Rogers, who is well-known in the diabetic foot care realm and surely is as competent a surgeon as anyone else, is Board Certified but not ABPS Certified. He therefore would be unable to obtain hospital privileges in Bend, OR and as a result would not be accepted on insurance provider panels. He therefore would be unable to work in all of Central OR despite likely being more well-versed in diabetic foot care than anyone currently in this state, and the limiting factor was the hospital's requirement specifically for ABPS credentials. Had they simply mandated "Board Certified" then the entire scenario would be different.

There are many different ways to treat a patient in a hospital other than surgery. Dr. Rogers would not even be permitted to see an inpatient on a consult for an ingrown nail.

 

[PADPM]

NatCH,

Perfectly stated.

 

[podpal]

Thanks for your responses. As the residency crisis looms closer, it's nice that the CPME dropped its REQUIREMENT that pod residency directors be ABPS cert to run a program. The AACPM lists about 440 residency slots and they recently posted the number of expected grads for 2009-12. Next summer we should find another 80+ students with NO chance of getting a residency under our current "system". Over 500 students will graduate in 2010 and 2011 and over 600 will graduate in 2012.

Now that "normal" non-ABPS cert pods can become directors of PM&S programs, the possibility of starting programs should be much easier. This eliminates the "good ole boys" from preventing program development. Before this new rule, ABPS cert was REQUIRED to be residency director for any PSR program.

I can see no advantage to ABPS board cert. for myself. Our hospitals don't require it, our area has conservative care opportunity out the ying yang, and it would be really difficult to obtain the surgical case load in practice with the small patient population we have here.

Thanks for the input!

 

[cool_vkb]

Now that "normal" non-ABPS cert pods can become directors of PM&S programs, the possibility of starting programs should be much easier. This eliminates the "good ole boys" from preventing program development. Before this new rule, ABPS cert was REQUIRED to be residency director for any PSR program. !

Sir! if i understand correctly. ABPS is the only board for pod surgeons. and as all pod residencies have a good portion of surgery be it a 36 or 24. So how can non-ABPS (which means non surgery) podiatrist become director of a Surgical subspeciality training program ? i mean he himself wont be a surgeon right! how can he teach surgery? or manage a surgery program?

ofcourse if its a non surgery program (like they had back in those days) it will really make no sense to have ABPS requirement.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

As an example, our own Dr. Rogers,

Very correct NatCh. I don't do many of the procedures "required" by ABPS and found myself attempting to find unnecessary reasons to perform those specific surgeries.

I did 240 cases last year and I'm going to do probably 300-320 this year. But they are Kellers, toe arthroplasties, amputations, I&Ds, debridements, skin grafts, TALs, Charcot recons, Ankle or STJ fusions, STATTs, etc. The problem is that I don't have "diversity" in my 1st ray procedures, don't do trauma, etc.

I decided to resign my ABPS status recently because I was "voting with my pocketbook", since they won't listen to anything else. I insisted upon a refund and they did give me one, believe it or not.

The larger issue in our profession is the division. We are all podiatrists. A podiatrist is a physician and a surgeon of the foot and ankle. There is no need for so many organizations and boards, plus the expense of all these are amazing! $1600 to APMA, $400 to ACFAS, $400 to ACFAOM, $200 to ABPS, $200 to ABPOPPM - and then if you are board certified in wound care $400 or a member of the Amer Diabetes Assoc $400. That's $4600 per year in memberships - ridiculous!!

There needs to be the APMA, a college of podiatry, and a board of podiatry.

The problem is ACFAS and ABPS are so elitist that they want separation of the profession into surgeons (supposedly more glamorous) and non-surgeons.

Every podiatrist should know how to/be trained how to do surgery and practice podiatric medicine. Then let the DPMs decide if they want to subspecialize later or be a general podiatrist.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Sir! if i understand correctly. ABPS is the only board for pod surgeons. and as all pod residencies have a good portion of surgery be it a 36 or 24. So how can non-ABPS (which means non surgery) podiatrist become director of a Surgical subspeciality training program ? i mean he himself wont be a surgeon right! how can he teach surgery? or manage a surgery program?

ofcourse if its a non surgery program (like they had back in those days) it will really make no sense to have ABPS requirement.

It's true. The program director can be board certified by either ABPS or ABPOPPM.

 

[NatCh]

Sir! if i understand correctly. ABPS is the only board for pod surgeons. and as all pod residencies have a good portion of surgery be it a 36 or 24. So how can non-ABPS (which means non surgery) podiatrist become director of a Surgical subspeciality training program ? i mean he himself wont be a surgeon right! how can he teach surgery? or manage a surgery program?

ofcourse if its a non surgery program (like they had back in those days) it will really make no sense to have ABPS requirement.

Not having ABPS credentials does not necessarily mean you are not a surgeon. It just means you didn't go through their credentialing process. You can be an extremely capable surgeon and never enroll in any society.

ABPS, ABPOPPM, ACFAS, and any other society is just something you pay to take part in. It is to show the general public that you have passed a minimum set of criteria, which supposedly means you have a certain level of competence.

 

[cool_vkb]

Not having ABPS credentials does not necessarily mean you are not a surgeon. It just means you didn't go through their credentialing process. You can be an extremely capable surgeon and never enroll in any society.
ABPS, ABPOPPM, ACFAS, and any other society is just something you pay to take part in. It is to show the general public that you have passed a minimum set of criteria, which supposedly means you have a certain level of competence.

Oh really. i never knew that. i always though ABPS as they say is the license to do surgery. lol.

so does that mean that a guy who did PMS-24 (who is not eligible for ABPS rearfoot stuff) can still do rearfoot if he took extra training outside residnecy may be thru perceptership or fellowship,etc etc.

And what are the disadvantages of not being ABPS certified?

 

[NatCh]

Oh really. i never knew that. i always though ABPS as they say is the license to do surgery. lol.

so does that mean that a guy who did PMS-24 (who is not eligible for ABPS rearfoot stuff) can still do rearfoot if he took extra training outside residnecy may be thru perceptership or fellowship,etc etc.

And what are the disadvantages of not being ABPS certified?

If you know how to do the procedures and your state laws AND hospital bylaws permit it, then I don't know what there would be to stop you from doing it. Look at Dr. Rogers for example. He does RF/Ankle but has no affiliation with ABPS. You may have to prove to a Credentialing Committee that you've previously done whatever procedures you are applying to get privileges for by showing case logs.

The disadvantage would be if some entity (e.g., insurance company, hospital, etc.) specifically mandated ABPS Certification. Most entities I've come across, other than my own goofy hospital, just say "Board Certification" without specifying by whom.

Honestly most of the general public and even other doctors have only a vague understanding of podiatry at all, so they certainly don't know what the ABPS, ABPOPPM, ACFAS, or any other podiatric society is. The most they might look for is the term "Board Certified" and leave it at that. The distinction between the societies is understood mostly only within our profession. Try asking the next MD/DO/DDS/DMD/relative/neighbor you come across, "What are your feelings regarding ABPS versus ABPOPPM?" See if you get any response other than a perplexed stare.

 

[cool_vkb]

Try asking the next MD/DO/DDS/DMD/relative/neighbor you come across, "What are your feelings regarding ABPS versus ABPOPPM?" See if you get any response other than a perplexed stare.

Dont know about neighbors but one of my cousin (he is a high school dropout but owns 6 subways.lol. so he is kind of a bigshot in that sense and pretends he knows everything.) so with his limited knowledge a few months back he asked me what does a DPM means? i replied what do you think? the reply was "P- is pen....s and you guys are the male organ specialist😱" Doctor of Pen..s Medicine . lol i cant imagine asking him the difference between ABPS and ABPOPPM. he he.

 

[podpal]

For Cool VKB, thank you for the question. To clarify one thing though. I'm not a sir, I'm an attractive, rather small female podiatrist...LOL.

Regarding the Residency Directorship requirements, they have changed. In the past, residency programs could be totally nonsurgical, except perhaps nail procedures and ulcer care, called PPMR's "primary podiatric medical residency" or RPRs "rotating podiatric residency". The resident would rotate through with MD or DO residents as well as conservative care DPMs. PPMR's could lead to board cert via ABPOPPM. Surgical programs were called PSR "podiatric surgical residency" and were 12 month, 24 month, or 36 month. The PSR's HAD to be directed by an ABPS cert pod ONLY.

Since the development of PM&S programs, "podiatric MEDICINE & Surgery", the requirement for directors to be ABPS board cert was dropped. A director can be ABPS or ABPOPPM or even OTHER EXPERIENCE EQUIVALENT and still direct a program. This means that students who will graduate in 2010 and beyond should be bugging pods all over to set up residency programs. If there is a hospital with existing rotations like exist at any teaching hospital, it's a matter of finding a pod who will accept directorship.

This is a big blessing, a huge favor that CPME did for the profession. We all will need to take action though, or you or your classmates will be stuck in a situation where they can't work because of lack of residency's where states require it to practice.

 

[cool_vkb]

For Cool VKB, thank you for the question. To clarify one thing though. I'm not a sir, I'm an attractive, rather small female podiatrist...LOL.
Regarding the Residency Directorship requirements, they have changed. In the past, residency programs could be totally nonsurgical, except perhaps nail procedures and ulcer care, called PPMR's "primary podiatric medical residency" or RPRs "rotating podiatric residency". The resident would rotate through with MD or DO residents as well as conservative care DPMs. PPMR's could lead to board cert via ABPOPPM. Surgical programs were called PSR "podiatric surgical residency" and were 12 month, 24 month, or 36 month. The PSR's HAD to be directed by an ABPS cert pod ONLY.

Since the development of PM&S programs, "podiatric MEDICINE & Surgery", the requirement for directors to be ABPS board cert was dropped. A director can be ABPS or ABPOPPM or even OTHER EXPERIENCE EQUIVALENT and still direct a program. This means that students who will graduate in 2010 and beyond should be bugging pods all over to set up residency programs. If there is a hospital with existing rotations like exist at any teaching hospital, it's a matter of finding a pod who will accept directorship.

This is a big blessing, a huge favor that CPME did for the profession. We all will need to take action though, or you or your classmates will be stuck in a situation where they can't work because of lack of residency's where states require it to practice.

Oops my appologies MADAM! 🙂 . where do you practice?

as for residencies. oh yes we will be constantly requesting the attendings and physicans to consider opening a residnecy program where ever its possible. we are really in a tough spot and i hope all this works out good.

lol as for now i dont wanna think about it. like a self denial mode. he he. it really upsets me when i start thinking abt these things. so iam trying to block them till i start my 3rd year. i hve my surgery exam (forefoot) tomorrow and excited abt it. then off to india for 15 days 😀 . im shadowing a MD (endocrinilogist in mumbai) who is very famous in diabetic limb stuff. hope it will be a good experience 🙂

 

[NatCh]

...then off to india for 15 days 😀 . im shadowing a MD (endocrinilogist in mumbai) who is very famous in diabetic limb stuff. hope it will be a good experience 🙂

Hey, would you consider posting some pics of the experience on this board? I'd be quite interested in seeing that!

 

[cool_vkb]

Hey, would you consider posting some pics of the experience on this board? I'd be quite interested in seeing that!

i will def try my best. if the patient and doc agrees.

 

[Podfather]

Good old boys ha! Anyone who would do their research and not just spout poison would see the examination committees are filled with predominately younger recently boarded DPMs. As for logging, the process, the examination my experiences it is a fair, efficient, and logical process. Do you think and organization with a dues system wants people to fail? Absurd! Most of the changes implemented over the years were secondary to issues within the profession. The split to Foot and RRA was accomodate those DPMs in states with limited scope or DPMs whose residencies did not offer RRA training. Prior to that it was difficult to become boarded.

The ABPS has little to do with egos like other organizations. The VOLUNTEERS who spend 4-6 weeks out of their practices to be involved receive no pay, lose income, and are away from their families. Yet they are never promoted. Honestly can you off the top of your head name their officers, board, committee members, the chairman?

Is it a perfect process? Nothing is. My final observation is that people who make the effort and pass feel it was fair and those who don't think it's bias, unreasonable and an attempt to exclude.

 

[Feli]

... the examination committees are filled with predominately younger recently boarded DPMs....

...The ABPS has little to do with egos like other organizations. The VOLUNTEERS who spend 4-6 weeks out of their practices to be involved receive no pay, lose income, and are away from their families. Yet they are never promoted. Honestly can you off the top of your head name their officers, board, committee members, the chairman?

Is it a perfect process? Nothing is. My final observation is that people who make the effort and pass feel it was fair and those who don't think it's bias, unreasonable and an attempt to exclude.

I would tend to agree here.

I attended the ABPS membership meeting at the ACFAS annual meeting, and I was amazed to see all the volunteers and hours that are required for exam composition, reviewing, and testing. My residency director is pretty involved on ABPS, and I quickly noticed that it takes a lot of hours of travel, reading, review, etc... and it's certainly not as if it pays great. A lot of the guys on the ABPS board are well trained and heavy contributers to podiatric education (many residency directors, lecturers, authors, etc). I think the people who are sour to the ABPS process could consider getting involved and improving it by volunteering their services as question reviewers, on-siteetc.

I'm sure it's never an easy job being on ABPS, state boards of podiatry, etc. It's a position which doesn't pay well and gets taken for granted by most, and on top of that, those who fail to get/keep a license, fail to get certified, etc are up in arms and venting their frustratation with the board and the whole process.