ABS QE/CE Pass Rates

[LucidSplash]

In the opinion of the those at the attending level, to what degree should a GS applicant consider the QE/CE 1st attempt pass rates from the last 5 years when evaluating programs and constructing their rank list? The numbers likely reflect a combination of the training one receives at the program with the individual pre-existing abilities of the graduates. But from this side of the fence I'm not certain if there's a "best way" to think about this.

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[gerickson03m]

Having just finished both, the written exam pass rate is aroun 80-85%, its on a curved scale. The oral pass rate is around 70%. Thus if a program as above an 80% pass rate, they are above average.

 

[SLUser11]

In the opinion of the those at the attending level, to what degree should a GS applicant consider the QE/CE 1st attempt pass rates from the last 5 years when evaluating programs and constructing their rank list? The numbers likely reflect a combination of the training one receives at the program with the individual pre-existing abilities of the graduates. But from this side of the fence I'm not certain if there's a "best way" to think about this.

Board pass rates are extremely important. The whole point of residency is to teach you how to operate and prepare you to become a board certified surgeon.

Low pass rates can sometimes reflect "pre-existing ability" issues, which is why less-competitive programs will often have low scores. Still, low pass rates usually reflect a poor surgical curriculum. Low pass rates should be a huge red flag.

 

[JackADeli]

...Thus if a program as above an 80% pass rate, they are above average.

Board pass rates are extremely important. The whole point of residency is to teach you how to operate and prepare you to become a board certified surgeon.

... low pass rates usually reflect a poor surgical curriculum. Low pass rates should be a huge red flag.

I have to generally agree with the above. I think the written is especially important pass rate to look at....

In general, you would like to see a 100% first take pass rate on the written. That is not realistic and not going to happen. But , you should see in a program that the majority of residents are CONSISTENTLY first take passing the written exam.

A program with a "stable" administration (i.e. no major changes in program director and primary teaching attendings) with say consistently 3 out of 4 graduates passing the written is good. You may even see an occasional 100% (4 out of 4) pass rate over the preceding 5 years. By the same token, you might see an off year in which 2 out of 4 or even 3 out of four fail. However, if it is a stable program, in which previous track record is good, that may be a bad year reflecting more on the residents then on the program.

What this all means is that the track record of stable faculty to get their graduating chiefs to pass is the important consideration. It is hard to judge if the faculty is unstable, the caliber of residents are unstable, and the pass rate bounces like an ECG every year. Such a program I would avoid.

 

[Celiac Plexus]

Having just finished both, the written exam pass rate is aroun 80-85%, its on a curved scale. The oral pass rate is around 70%. Thus if a program as above an 80% pass rate, they are above average.

FYI - The pass rate for the qualifying (written) exam given this year in August was 75%. The bottom quartile was failed.

 

[balaguru]

UT Southwestern had a 5 year 100% pass rate on the oral and written boards from at least 2005 (maybe even further back) to 2008 (when I applied) for 12-13 graduates per year. One person failed 2 years ago tarnishing that reputation.

In general, you would like to see a 100% first take pass rate on the written. That is not realistic and not going to happen. But , you should see in a program that the majority of residents are CONSISTENTLY first take passing the written exam.\

 

[JackADeli]

UT Southwestern had a 5 year 100% pass rate on the oral and written boards from at least 2005 (maybe even further back) to 2008 (when I applied) for 12-13 graduates per year. One person failed 2 years ago tarnishing that reputation.

I think that is excellent. The overall track record is excellent. I think every program should seek to be 100% first take pass program, every resident (i.e. not necessarily applying med-student) should expect their program to be a 100% first take pass program ...and do their part to study and teach to promote that goal. My point of it not being a realistic expectation is a matter of a consistent 100% track record.... Someone will fail at some point. As you note, UT had a break in its track record 2yrs ago. I was simply trying to make the statement that a program with a solid track rcord will still have the off years. As in your example, if the record of 100% first take pass is broken, I would not suddenly look down on that program. It may be a resident specific issue with anotherwise stable/consistent/well run program.

JAD