ACA - aka ObamaCare and why you shouldn't be surprised.

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You would need to massively change things more in order to achieve a great amount of savings and they probably will never be able to do that. Too many players making too much money to change it that much. When the ACA left the healthcare companies in place as the middle-men, you already knew right then that costs would continue to rise albeit perhaps just a little bit slower.

That's it right there. It's a government sanctioned racket. The only solution is to go to a cash market and let the offer come down to an un-subsidized bid. Costs would go down to 20% of what they are today.

 
The middle class always take the hit. The money has to come from somewhere right? The poor obviously don't have the money. The rich got their lobbyists.

The employers just pass on the cost to the employees.


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The business model is not as simple as taking in more premiums than paying out in claims. Health insurers in today's modern casino gulag economy make money investing. They really don't have an incentive to control HC costs. In a perverse way they rather see costs increase so they can justify higher premiums. In a way you could look at the ACA as a backdoor way of keeping the financial bubble inflated.
 
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Death spiral is certainly an important thing to consider and abate, but when a certain population of people are used to paying for a risk pool that specifically excludes sick people, and all of a sudden they're required to financially care for their fellow citizen regardless of condition, they just need to suck it up because that's how much healthcare actually costs.

Sure it's cheaper to kick people to the curb. Pretty sure that's what the Nazis were doing, you know, drag on the state kinda thing 🙄

Agreed. You also must consider individuals and their motives. If you have multiple plans in a marketplace, they will likely (collusion aside) set differentiation amongst themselves to compete. Many do this on price and or access. If from year to year plans are evaluating their risk profile and resetting their premium prices based on what they believe they will get from a patient risk profile they will be exposed to risk depending how accurate they can forecast. If something about your plan attracts more risk than your peers (low premiums, good will, different marketing, etc.) you're in trouble if you didn't forecast for it.
 
Ascribing a "Risk vs Value" proposition to healthcare can become problematic if done to the n-Th degree. When healthcare companies start playing hot potato to kick anyone who has a condition to the curb, then they're probably looking at it too much from a profit perspective. At a certain point we just need to cover as many as possible and feel lucky that we haven't gotten a condition ourselves "yet". Most everyone will eventually have something, it's just a matter of when and if you're lucky enough to catch it soon enough. Therefore, it's probably better to not look upon people who need to use healthcare as "risky" people or simply a financial burden to contend with as we or someone close to us will certainly be in the same position eventually.

As to Obamacare, it is doing what it was created to do:

1.) Provide some sort of healthcare to those who would otherwise have none
2.) Give some help to everyone by cutting down on how much the healthcare companies can screw you over (like pre-existing conditions) because otherwise (as we've already seen) they would indeed screw you to the n-Th degree without conscious.
3.) Slow the rise of healthcare costs (not stop it, just slow it some)

Some comements on #1: Low income people and folks in their 50s/60s (pre-medicare and not poor enough to get medicaid) would have a hard time getting healthcare. Healthcare companies don't want these people because they are too "risky" and thus could dampen their profits. For older folks, it also sucks because a lot of businesses engage in age discrimination too. These corporations like to quietly lay these people off partly because they don't want to pay for their expensive healthcare or their families. Then they get it on the other end because healthcare companies want to charge a fortune because they are considered "risky". They have no recourse but to try to get to medicare age if they can last that long.

Some comements on #3: People like to whine that the rates are still high and use that as an excuse to say that the ACA is a failure. However, all it did was slow the cost growth and also, it's actually to the benefit of some to raise the costs as much and as soon as possible. Therefore, you have forces that are pushing costs as high as possible to reap the profits.

You would need to massively change things more in order to achieve a great amount of savings and they probably will never be able to do that. Too many players making too much money to change it that much. When the ACA left the healthcare companies in place as the middle-men, you already knew right then that costs would continue to rise albeit perhaps just a little bit slower.

That is not what Obama said. He said each household will see a drop of $2 k because of ACA. Instead it went up. Way up.


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http://www.csbj.com/2016/10/21/amendment-69-proposes-single-payer-health-care/


This will be law of the land sooner rather then later unless something seriously changes in the voting booths. At least now we have some idea of how it will be paid for.

A 10% payroll tax where the employer eats 2/3's of the cost along with also charging senior citizens (who won't benefit from above legislation) if they make more then $24k a year and all active and retired military members (who again are using Tricare and won't benefit from above situation).

I pay effectively $500 a year for my health insurance ( I get $750 of my premiums back to my HSA), granted I have a high deductible plan, however I don't use more then preventative care at this point which is free and even if I did meet my deductible one year it is still less then my portion of the above plan for the year and that doesn't include my >3k savings yearly for the years I don't use my insurance.
 
How are your employer group insurance plans going? My Walgreens one is actually going down next year.

2016 United Bronze $617.16/yr ($23.74/pay check), $4,395 employer subsidy.
2017 United Bronze $384.84/yr ($14.80/pay check), $4,694.28 employer subsidy.

Bronze is a PPO with $3k deductible then 20%, $5,950 max OOP, and they give us $150 in a HRA.
 
How are your employer group insurance plans going? My Walgreens one is actually going down next year.

2016 United Bronze $617.16/yr ($23.74/pay check), $4,395 employer subsidy.
2017 United Bronze $384.84/yr ($14.80/pay check), $4,694.28 employer subsidy.

Bronze is a PPO with $3k deductible then 20%, $5,950 max OOP, and they give us $150 in a HRA.

If you notice your's is down due to your employer picking up $300 more. Overall your actual total cost for plan has remained flat (your portion + employers). My plan has gone up a few dollars a paycheck.
 
If you notice your's is down due to your employer picking up $300 more. Overall your actual total cost for plan has remained flat (your portion + employers). My plan has gone up a few dollars a paycheck.
Right. Employee portion going down, employer subsidy going up, total cost almost flat. What's there not to like?

The way Walgreens does it is they have a private Aon Hewitt exchange where they have a few big insurance companies competing for our business. I would say a lot of people just go for the cheapest, which forces the insurers to offer the lowest premiums.

Actually it was the same OP as this thread who, three years ago, predicted this private exchange would be a disaster, but so far it's been working out ok.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ployee-health-insurance-to-exchanges.1033467/
 
All of these insurance companies are trying to get the healthy, young customers.

Low monthly fee, high deduction plus HSA...that is how you do it.

I am predicting the government will increase max contribution to HSA. It is just a great way to save money....no income tax, no medicare tax, no social security tax. Everybody will use healthcare eventually so your HSA money will be put to a good use.


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I think we should cut the amount of people on Medicaid by one half and use that savings to lower everyone else's health insurance costs.


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