Academic career (clinical focus) with PsyD training

[chicandtoughness]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi all! One of my clinical supervisees (current APCC in California) is considering applying for doctoral programs in psychology. She's an older student in her mid/late 40s and is interested in being a clinical professor at a university (not necessarily with tenure, but not as an adjunct). She specifically wants to work in a department of psychology and not counseling (hence why no PhD in Counselor Education), and is interested in focusing on the clinical practice piece. For example, coordinating the practicum/internship program, teaching clinical skills classes, etc. She doesn't necessarily care about the prestige of the university she works at, as long as it's not a diploma mill/online churn and burn program like Walden or Grand Canyon.

She has no research experience, little time to get it, and no interest in having a research career. As you can expect she is focusing her app primarily on PsyD programs (and given that she's in California and does not want to leave, realistically those are the programs she'll probably get into with her career profile).

I know enough to caution her against FSPPs and alert her that research is not optional in any worthwhile doctoral program, but I don't know enough about the current landscape in academia hiring to say much more about the feasibility of her plan. Any current or past faculty members want to chime in? Can she accomplish what she wants with a PsyD? I know California PsyDs aren't necessarily the cream of the crop unfortunately, but she's not willing (nor realistically does she have the background) to put in several years of postbac/RC work to relocate for a Rutgers or Baylor or IUP. I've already encouraged her to reach out to anyone in her network, including any PsyDs from her undergrad program, but the more info the merrier (and I can tuck it away in my back pocket for other future supervisees).

EDIT: If it matters, she's in SoCal, actually living right near Loma Linda. From the sound of it she wants to stay in the area.

 

[Sanman]

If she does not want to leave CA for the program, is she going to want to leave CA for the job? Full-time academic positions require a national search. If not, you are getting a PhD/PsyD for what amounts to 1-2 job openings, maybe. Will she be competitive? That depends on luck and how many connections she can make. Find a faculty member that publishes with a lab and maybe latch on. Mind you non-tt jobs don't pay well unless you are teaching on top of a clinical caseload. Realistically, it is unlikely she will have the CV or ever get an interview with no research interest. Maybe a glorified title with the occasional teaching or superivision option at a hospital. Counselor education was the better option IMO, less competition and more openings.

 

[PsyDr]

Have her make a list of all of the graduate psychology programs in the area, and then identify the number of positions she would want. Then look up their payments on public data stuff.

IMO, there's going to be like 2 jobs that pay BS. The chances of her getting her dream job, near her house, at a pay level that makes any sense is very low.

Also: Loma Linda is some variety of religious. IIRC, they used to require you to not smoke or drink, or do anything cool. Somehow I don't see that going over well with some southern California lady.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Agree with the above. She needs to readjust her goals. Perhaps a quality master's degree and providing clinical supervision in addition to doing her own clinical work would scratch the teaching/training itch.

 

[R. Matey]

Counselor education was the better option IMO, less competition and more openings.

Also, believe or not, less pay than an assistant clinical educator at your local AMC or at a decent R1. I've seen these positions advertised for as little as $60-70k in the Midwest within the past year. I doubt the coasts do much better.

ETA: I don't think an assistant clinical position in a psychology dept is anything to aspire to. In psych depts, these people are there to basically provide supervision so the TT folks can focus on their research. It also comes with hefty second-class citizenship vibes, free of charge.

 

[Sanman]

Also, believe or not, less pay than an assistant clinical educator at your local AMC or at a decent R1. I've seen these positions advertised for as little as $60-70k in the Midwest within the past year. I doubt the coasts do much better.

ETA: I don't think an assistant clinical position in a psychology dept is anything to aspire to. In psych depts, these people are there to basically provide supervision so the TT folks can focus on their research. It also comes with hefty second-class citizenship vibes, free of charge.

Nothing she is contemplating doing is going to bring much money, certainly not southern CA money. Visiting assistant professors or those on teaching contracts make about that much as well.

 

[R. Matey]

Nothing she is contemplating doing is going to bring much money, certainly not southern CA money. Visiting assistant professors or those on teaching contracts make about that much as well.

Agreed. Clinical educator at the AMC would pay ok (if she could get it), but wouldn't be worth the loans or opportunity cost.

 

[chicandtoughness]

Should probably have mentioned that she is not hurting for money (husband makes bank and is happy to throw money at her problems lmao) so that doesn't seem to be a major factor in her decision making. Regardless, all useful information for me to relay, thank you for everything y'all have shared so far!

 

[Sanman]

Should probably have mentioned that she is not hurting for money (husband makes bank and is happy to throw money at her problems lmao) so that doesn't seem to be a major factor in her decision making. Regardless, all useful information for me to relay, thank you for everything y'all have shared so far!

And that is why she will never accomplish her goals. It is hard to motivate yourself to complete slave labor when you have options. On the other hand, SoCal will have another rich female therapist in cash only PP a few years from now. So that demographic will be well tended to in the event all the other ones are unavailable or otherwise engaged.

 

[PsyDocNess]

Only other thing I could think of is maybe attending California Baptist? They have a Psy.D program. Also another religious institution like Loma Linda but it is in Riverside.

 

[cara susanna]

Southern California is competitive, especially the bigger cities. My former mentor took a training director position at one of the notorious for-profit programs and their academic credentials are impeccable.