Academic Dishonesty

[kratosis]

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So I was academiclly dishonest. I got my exam scantron back and changed 2 answers and gave it back to the professor saying the scantron made a mistake. Yes i know, very pathetic.

my question is how do i explain this in the primary explanation, there is not enough room to explain it fully. i am afraid if i leave it general as in (i was academically dishonest) they might think i copied off a student during an exam or something.

it happened once and never again in the following 3 semesters, nor will it ever happen again. i have learned my lesson.

also i am scared if i report it, i may be screened out because of it, and if i dont, what if they do a check and find out?

any suggestions/advice on how to write about this in the primary? and what if i dont report it for the fear of being automatically rejected??

any help is appreciated!

 

[Ost3oclast]

So I was academiclly dishonest. I got my exam scantron back and changed 2 answers and gave it back to the professor saying the scantron made a mistake. Yes i know, very pathetic.

my question is how do i explain this in the primary explanation, there is not enough room to explain it fully. i am afraid if i leave it general as in (i was academically dishonest) they might think i copied off a student during an exam or something.

it happened once and never again in the following 3 semesters, nor will it ever happen again. i have learned my lesson.

also i am scared if i report it, i may be screened out because of it, and if i dont, what if they do a check and find out?

any suggestions/advice on how to write about this in the primary? and what if i dont report it for the fear of being automatically rejected??

any help is appreciated!

If this shows up on a transcript then its gonna be bad news OP.... Many people say that this is one of the things your app cannot recover from. I'll let somebody else chime in.

 

[gmcguitar4]

If you got caught, you should have alternate plans cause academic dishonesty ain't good on your app.

 

[kratosis]

Did you get caught?
If yes: You're done, you will never get into medical school unless you show changes in character.
If no: Then don't mention it and stew in your bad feels.

Yes i did get caught and was reported to the dean and it was put in my file. and they say i have to report it. i also received a lower grade for that class (was earning a B, and got a D instead). Idk if they report it on the transcript though.

but it never occured again for 3 subsequent semesters, doesnt that show change in character? i have learned alot more from that experience than from acing my upper level bio courses. i know that.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Go to your dean and check if it is on your record and whether you're able to expunge it if it exists.

Basically you've messed up big. And no 3 semesters isn't enough, you're going to need to spend a lot longer "growing up". Your integrity is shot and your tact was weak, it's going to hurt massively. Consider taking half a decade off to wash it away through things like americorp.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Go to your dean and check if it is on your record and whether you're able to expunge it if it exists.

Basically you've messed up big. And no 3 semesters isn't enough, you're going to need to spend a lot longer "growing up". Your integrity is shot and your tact was weak, it's going to hurt massively. Consider taking half a decade off to wash it away through things like americorp.

This. OP, it sounds ridiculous, but to even have a shot, you're going to have to take years off....

 

[kratosis]

Go to your dean and check if it is on your record and whether you're able to expunge it if it exists.

Basically you've messed up big. And no 3 semesters isn't enough, you're going to need to spend a lot longer "growing up". Your integrity is shot and your tact was weak, it's going to hurt massively. Consider taking half a decade off to wash it away through things like americorp.

If I call the dean and he is able to expunge it, how does help? does that mean i do not have to report it anymore for this cycle?

 

[Ost3oclast]

If I call the dean and he is able to expunge it, how does help? does that mean i do not have to report it anymore for this cycle?

If you get it expunged, nobody would know it happened. You could say you had never been caught.....there are some moral aspects to that though....

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

If you get it expunged, nobody would know it happened. You could say you had never been caught.....there are some moral aspects to that though....

I'm not sure if he would have to report it or not.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I'm not sure if he would have to report it or not.

Yeah....I mean morally you would be obligated to report it regardless....

 

[Dreamstoo]

It's better to take a D or an F in a class then ever cheat. A D or a F may haunt you for awhile but you can retake it. An academic dishonesty event however can really mess with a person's long time future. I'm sorry but even though it was one incident, I would also maybe talk to your pre med adviser at your school on whether or not you should entirely give up the idea of pre med. I have 2 Cs from freshman year, I had no idea what I was doing half of the time in calc 1/calc 2 but kept honest with myself. Worked my butt off for calc 3 and calc 4, got Bs.

I have failed many college midterms that counted 10-15% and accepted it. I found new ways on how to improve, never ever try to go back to a professor to get points if you wrote or changed answers on your exams.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yeah....I mean morally you would be obligated to report it regardless....

I think the op may need to report it if it was ever on his record as a rule.

 

[Ost3oclast]

I think the op may need to report it if it was ever on his record as a rule.

Yeah thats what I was thinking. You know some people wouldnt if it was expunged though...

 

[Goro]

You do have to report it and you explain it in a special section on the AACOMAS application form. You'd better make a very explanation in your PS about how you own it now.


Even with that, you may get interviews, and then it's on how you handle it face-to-face.

But at my school, you'd likely end up being rejected. There's good data to show that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest medical students (and earlier). While some people believe in the power of redemption, we tend to be VERY harsh with cheaters. After all, we get so many applicants without a blemish on their record, why should we take a chance on you?

Suggest you start thinking about other career plans.

Yes i did get caught and was reported to the dean and it was put in my file. and they say i have to report it. i also received a lower grade for that class (was earning a B, and got a D instead). Idk if they report it on the transcript though.

but it never occured again for 3 subsequent semesters, doesnt that show change in character? i have learned alot more from that experience than from acing my upper level bio courses. i know that.

 

[TriagePreMed]

You have to look into another career. Maybe liberty university will let you in if you say the holy spirit cleaned you up after this.

I think the worst part is how petty the cheating was. gambled it all for two bubbles in a scranton.

 

[coolingglasses]

Wild how this is more damaging than some arrests.

Makes sense though.

 

[TopTomato]

You do have to report it and you explain it in a special section on the AACOMAS application form. You'd better make a very explanation in your PS about how you own it now.


Even with that, you may get interviews, and then it's on how you handle it face-to-face.

But at my school, you'd likely end up being rejected. There's good data to show that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest medical students (and earlier). While some people believe in the power of redemption, we tend to be VERY harsh with cheaters. After all, we get so many applicants without a blemish on their record, why should we take a chance on you?

Suggest you start thinking about other career plans.

I'm just curious, have you ever accepted anybody with a blemish like that on their application? From what i've seen, its pretty much a death sentence.

 

[TopTomato]

I think the worst part is how petty the cheating was. gambled it all for two bubbles in a scranton.

I know especially since 2 extra questions on a scantron pretty much comes out to like 5 points MAX on an exam.. if that.

 

[kratosis]

You do have to report it and you explain it in a special section on the AACOMAS application form. You'd better make a very explanation in your PS about how you own it now.


Even with that, you may get interviews, and then it's on how you handle it face-to-face.

But at my school, you'd likely end up being rejected. There's good data to show that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest medical students (and earlier). While some people believe in the power of redemption, we tend to be VERY harsh with cheaters. After all, we get so many applicants without a blemish on their record, why should we take a chance on you?

Suggest you start thinking about other career plans.

Yes I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense. I have come this far and I guess I will cast my net wide, if someone offers me an interview I can explain my situation and why this occurred pretty well. the rest is up to the Almighty.

 

[kratosis]

You have to look into another career. Maybe liberty university will let you in if you say the holy spirit cleaned you up after this.

I think the worst part is how petty the cheating was. gambled it all for two bubbles in a scranton.

This "petty cheating" is a blessing in disguise. My whole life changed after this incident. Idk about any spirits but I became a new man through repentance, inside and out. I became spiritual. Thats what I love about God. If you are sincere in repentance and commit to never making that sin again, God forgives and thinks nothing of it. If you saw me walking down the street, you'd probably think its the return of Jesus (flowing black beard). lol

At the end of the day, both the homeless man and the doctor are going 6 feet under into the same grave. I am at peace regardless of what happens. As long as God has forgiven me, I will be fine. Death can come at anytime, and to me, thats the only thing that really matters.

 

[kratosis]

Wild how this is more damaging than some arrests.

Makes sense though.

I have been arrested too, in my days of ignorance. hahah

 

[Ost3oclast]

I have been arrested too, in my days of ignorance. hahah

Dang man.....I think it just may be too much...

 

[kratosis]

I'm just curious, have you ever accepted anybody with a blemish like that on their application? From what i've seen, its pretty much a death sentence.

I am also very interested in knowing if anyone has ever been accepted after an incident such as mine. I guess it depends on the severity of the action and if there has been demonstrated character change (however they gauge that).

They dean of student affairs actually gave me two options after hearing my explanation, 1 saying he would give me the F for the class and the other that he would give me a D so i can pass. I emailed him asking him for a letter on my behalf because he saw that this was my first offense and that i was remorseful (teary eyed), etc.

Death is just a new beginning. just a new beginning.

 

[kratosis]

I know especially since 2 extra questions on a scantron pretty much comes out to like 5 points MAX on an exam.. if that.

if your father is not Asian, i would not expect you to understand. hahah. although it may seem funny but when illiterate asians come to the US, they have dreams of their children becoming doctors and engineers and highly educated, things they could never afford for themselves growing up in their countries. we have this drilled into us and in my case, caused me to be a cut throat premed student who was not willing to settle for a B grade in a class and made what may possibly be the biggest mistake of his life. but i am happy it happened. i have learned and matured. med school or not, i am glad it happened, gave me a chance to do some introspection and follow the ways of the pious predecessors.

i originally got an 80 on the exam, each questions was worth 5 points on the scantron, so 10 points would give me a 90. lol

 

[wjs010]

im sure tons of people have cheated during college and not gotten caught...maybe it ate them up later and they admitted it, but I'm guessing not. OP, I think you should do what others have said herein and work on improving how others are going to perceive your character..no, you are not a horrible person for having cheated...you did mess up though. Just be honest, work on character building EC's, keep trying hard...if you have to report it, then own up to it, and finish strong. I think you can redeem yourself, you just can't cheat anymore. It would also be wise to show sincerity in your interviews...i don't mean a tear, i just mean try not to laugh it off. good luck

 

[wjs010]

if your father is not Asian, i would not expect you to understand. hahah. although it may seem funny but when illiterate asians come to the US, they have dreams of their children becoming doctors and engineers and highly educated, things they could never afford for themselves growing up in their countries. we have this drilled into us and in my case, caused me to be a cut throat premed student who was not willing to settle for a B grade in a class and made what may possibly be the biggest mistake of his life. but i am happy it happened. i have learned and matured. med school or not, i am glad it happened, gave me a chance to do some introspection and follow the ways of the pious predecessors.

i originally got an 80 on the exam, each questions was worth 5 points on the scantron, so 10 points would give me a 90. lol

see? to me, that sounded like an honest explanation...I think you are well on your way..just don't make it look like it was your dad's fault in interviews. Everyone messes up...you're on the right track

 

[DrZed]

You seemed screwed... or are trolling... Not only did you cheat, but you have an arrest record as well... Being asian isn't an excuse. They have their expectations of you, but at the end of the day, it's your life.

I only see 2 ways you have a shot. One is you have an insane GPA and MCAT score and manage to get someone interviewing you that "understands" you, or two, you apply to one of those religious schools and hope you'll be able to convince them that this someone made you see the light and got saved or whatever.

Either way though, I would look into another career option as a backup... you're fighting an uphill battle that's covered with oil while wearing weights.

 

[kratosis]

im sure tons of people have cheated during college and not gotten caught...maybe it ate them up later and they admitted it, but I'm guessing not. OP, I think you should do what others have said herein and work on improving how others are going to perceive your character..no, you are not a horrible person for having cheated...you did mess up though. Just be honest, work on character building EC's, keep trying hard...if you have to report it, then own up to it, and finish strong. I think you can redeem yourself, you just can't cheat anymore. It would also be wise to show sincerity in your interviews...i don't mean a tear, i just mean try not to laugh it off. good luck

thank you dr. acula for your kind words. i appreciate your kind input. what kind of EC's would you suggest I partake in that build character? I have tutored college chemistry and biology at my college for 3 years. i was a student mentor for the student development department for incoming freshman and sophomores. i have volunteered at soup kitchens serving the homeless over the summer. what kind of character building EC's would you suggest in my case?

i will do my best if i am granted interviews. i deff understand that this matter is nothing to laugh at. thank you again. 🙂

 

[kratosis]

see? to me, that sounded like an honest explanation...I think you are well on your way..just don't make it look like it was your dad's fault in interviews. Everyone messes up...you're on the right track

it was deff not anyone's fault but my own. i changed the answers, not my dad. when we spoke later on that night, my father did apologize to me for pushing me so hard and we bonded in a new way.

 

[wjs010]

thank you dr. acula for your kind words. i appreciate your kind input. what kind of EC's would you suggest I partake in that build character? I have tutored college chemistry and biology at my college for 3 years. i was a student mentor for the student development department for incoming freshman and sophomores. i have volunteered at soup kitchens serving the homeless over the summer. what kind of character building EC's would you suggest in my case?

i will do my best if i am granted interviews. i deff understand that this matter is nothing to laugh at. thank you again. 🙂

hell you have better EC's than I do and I already applied. Your EC's look good. Try habitat for humanity or boys and girls club, as well as americorps.

 

[kratosis]

You seemed screwed... or are trolling... Not only did you cheat, but you have an arrest record as well... Being asian isn't an excuse. They have their expectations of you, but at the end of the day, it's your life.

I only see 2 ways you have a shot. One is you have an insane GPA and MCAT score and manage to get someone interviewing you that "understands" you, or two, you apply to one of those religious schools and hope you'll be able to convince them that this someone made you see the light and got saved or whatever.

Either way though, I would look into another career option as a backup... you're fighting an uphill battle that's covered with oil while wearing weights.

thank you for your input... i still do not know what trolling really means and im new to SDN.. is it like people who insanely lie about stats, stories, etc?!?!

my arrest is not on my record as it was wrongfully arrested for a crime i did not commit so the judge simply dismissed it.

i know being an Asian is no excuse, i was just trying to explain our culture which a bit different from the western culture, so you all should be grateful to God for having understanding parents. it am not blaming anyone but myself.

my cGPA is 3.1 and sGPA is 3.6 with a 27 MCAT: 8,9,10 (PS, VB, BS). so no, i do not have stellar stats, below avg cGPA in fact.

i am planning on applying to PA schools as a backup.

 

[kratosis]

hell you have better EC's than I do and I already applied. Your EC's look good. Try habitat for humanity or boys and girls club, as well as americorps.

thank you. I will look into them.

 

[TriagePreMed]

thank you for your input... i still do not know what trolling really means and im new to SDN.. is it like people who insanely lie about stats, stories, etc?!?!

my arrest is not on my record as it was wrongfully arrested for a crime i did not commit so the judge simply dismissed it.

i know being an Asian is no excuse, i was just trying to explain our culture which a bit different from the western culture, so you all should be grateful to God for having understanding parents. it am not blaming anyone but myself.

my cGPA is 3.1 and sGPA is 3.6 with a 27 MCAT: 8,9,10 (PS, VB, BS). so no, i do not have stellar stats, below avg cGPA in fact.

i am planning on applying to PA schools as a backup.

You're not going to get into anything academic. PA school can sometimes be harder to get into than some DO programs. They are also seeking honest people.

Your best bet is to switch to Engineering or some other major that will let you make money with just an undergraduate degree because no graduate school will take you.

 

[sylvanthus]

thank you for your input... i still do not know what trolling really means and im new to SDN.. is it like people who insanely lie about stats, stories, etc?!?!

my arrest is not on my record as it was wrongfully arrested for a crime i did not commit so the judge simply dismissed it.

i know being an Asian is no excuse, i was just trying to explain our culture which a bit different from the western culture, so you all should be grateful to God for having understanding parents. it am not blaming anyone but myself.

my cGPA is 3.1 and sGPA is 3.6 with a 27 MCAT: 8,9,10 (PS, VB, BS). so no, i do not have stellar stats, below avg cGPA in fact.

i am planning on applying to PA schools as a backup.

Dont bother with PA school. Alot require direct clinical experience and the GRE. Also they are no more lenient with cheating than medical school. Not sure where you got that idea from.

 

[TopTomato]

Dont bother with PA school. Alot require direct clinical experience and the GRE. Also they are no more lenient with cheating than medical school. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Yeah this, and also like somebody said before, I don't think anything academic is going to be "lenient" with cheating.

 

[kratosis]

You're not going to get into anything academic. PA school can sometimes be harder to get into than some DO programs. They are also seeking honest people.

Your best bet is to switch to Engineering or some other major that will let you make money with just an undergraduate degree because no graduate school will take you.

thanks but i will take my chances. i wont know for sure until i find out for myself. thank you.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Dont bother with PA school. Alot require direct clinical experience and the GRE. Also they are no more lenient with cheating than medical school. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Because they are not doctors, dude. They are losers that couldn't make it to MD/DO. We let them wear a white coat so they feel okay about themselves. Of course their schools will take just anybody that applies. Child Molestation conviction? Welcome to Pediatric PA!

 

[Goro]

Of all the people I've interviewed, only once, and that was over my objections.

I do have colleagues who feel that one can redeem themselves, so the OPs case will be school and interviewer specific.

I'm just curious, have you ever accepted anybody with a blemish like that on their application? From what i've seen, its pretty much a death sentence.

 

[GypsyHummus]

What would be the case if the academic dishonesty was not reported to the Dean and just left at the department level? Would ACCOMAS ever call in and investigate things outside of the dean's office?

 

[TopTomato]

What would be the case if the academic dishonesty was not reported to the Dean and just left at the department level? Would ACCOMAS ever call in and investigate things outside of the dean's office?

As long as it's not on your transcript or file, AACOMAS has no way of finding out. I've heard professors try to settle things within the classroom with the student such as taking an F in the class instead of having such a damaging mark on their record.

 

[GypsyHummus]

As long as it's not on your transcript or file, AACOMAS has no way of finding out. I've heard professors try to settle things within the classroom with the student such as taking an F in the class instead of having such a damaging mark on their record.

No, but what if it is on file at the department level?

I made a thread about this earlier,

My friend was accused of plagiarizing his final paper, using previous example from his own group discussions in his own paper without citing his source (himself). The prof caught it, he explained himself, and the prof just put a note in his file at the department letter. He was allowed to re-submit it for half credit. The Dean was not notified and no Institutional action was taken.

Would a medical school/ AACOMAS ever contact a department? Or is all that Academic and Criminal Background check handled with the Dean's office?

 

[GypsyHummus]

... what? That's as asinine as the guy who was accused of plagiarism when he wrote a book definition on his test.

Also chances are it's not necessary to report it. It's probably compiled as a pre-insitutional action file i.e if you do it once you get a warning, do it twice and it's a problem.

Yes, it was made very clear if it ever happens again, the world will end for him, literally (he showed me the note lol). However, the school/institution took no action, so I guess its not techincally an IA?

 

[TriagePreMed]

Yes, it was made very clear if it ever happens again, the world will end for him, literally (he showed me the note lol). However, the school/institution took no action, so I guess its not techincally an IA?

Usually there is a department like "Student Judicial Affairs." Schools won't be calling specific departments. As long as your "friend" keeps his mouth shut and not tell anyone else, I don't see how schools could ever find out. Reporting it or not is on their moral judgment.

 

[fluorescing]

thank you for your input... i still do not know what trolling really means and im new to SDN.. is it like people who insanely lie about stats, stories, etc?!?!

my arrest is not on my record as it was wrongfully arrested for a crime i did not commit so the judge simply dismissed it.

i know being an Asian is no excuse, i was just trying to explain our culture which a bit different from the western culture, so you all should be grateful to God for having understanding parents. it am not blaming anyone but myself.

my cGPA is 3.1 and sGPA is 3.6 with a 27 MCAT: 8,9,10 (PS, VB, BS). so no, i do not have stellar stats, below avg cGPA in fact.

i am planning on applying to PA schools as a backup.

PA schools may not be willing to overlook the IA with academic dishonesty either. You may also want to apply to nursing schools too. Maybe you can do some work as a RN and then eventually get a NP after you have worked as a RN for a few years.

 

[TopTomato]

Judging by what Goro said and what the general consensus is, i'm so glad I was never brave enough to even attempt trying to cheat.

 

[Dreamstoo]

Judging by what Goro said and what the general consensus is, i'm so glad I was never brave enough to even attempt trying to cheat.

Same, I used to see it happen a lot during my biology exams first year. And I remember saying to myself, if I got a 50% on this, I know I didn't know much. I wouldn't cheat to try to fabricate and convince myself I understood it. It's not worth it, my friend said during his Physics 3 exam, 3-4 kids got caught cheating. He got a B- in the class (went into the final with a C), he studied his butt off and his work paid off. I don't like how some people resort to cheating when they are nervous or overwhelmed during an exam. Just put whatever you know on the exam and move on with life. I got a 50 something on my calculus 1 final that was 40% of my grade. I shrugged my shoulders and learned from my mistake (had a personal problem the night before and I had trouble pushing it off for my last final, nothing major, just a huge fight with an old friend). I should have been practicing more problems and not have been on Facebook at all. We all learn from our mistakes

 

[Starry]

I would not trust a doctor who cheated even on something minor and has shown a willingness to cut corners. If I were on an admissions committee, this incident would make me wonder if the stresses of medical school would cause the student to do even more morally questionable things even if he has "learned" his lesson.

Sorry OP, but you might want to consider other career options.

It's kinda like that song by Rihanna: "Don't tell me your sorry when your not/When you know you're only sorry you got caught."

Somewhat-related-not-really-but-this-reminds-me: Some of my classmates in high school got caught cheating off another student and our English teacher called them "loathsome despicable creatures" in front of the entire class. And our teacher is normally such a sweet old lady too.

That phrase has stuck with me and shapes a lot of my moral outlook. Funny how just one small incident can change your life.

Edit: and OP, being Asian and under pressure to perform well is not an excuse. You're making us Asians look bad.

 

[Eleventhirteen]

You seemed screwed... or are trolling... Not only did you cheat, but you have an arrest record as well... Being asian isn't an excuse. They have their expectations of you, but at the end of the day, it's your life.

I only see 2 ways you have a shot. One is you have an insane GPA and MCAT score and manage to get someone interviewing you that "understands" you, or two, you apply to one of those religious schools and hope you'll be able to convince them that this someone made you see the light and got saved or whatever.

Either way though, I would look into another career option as a backup... you're fighting an uphill battle that's covered with oil while wearing weights.

🤣

 

[ToldYouSo]

OP, find out if it's been noted on your transcript (is it possible to order an official transcript and send it to yourself?) and if not, you might be ok in regards to that.

When it comes to LoR, you might be in trouble as it could be noted there if your school uses a committee letter. My school doesn't divulge who is on the pre-health committee, they all meet to discuss candidates after finals and include a separate recommendation form in the letter packet.

 

[CnsCrit]

.