Academic Dishonesty

[TriagePreMed]

First of all, I should say that there are a lot of really smart PAs out there that could have gone to medical school. I'm from the south, and I think a lot of female undergrads especially end up in nursing school or PA school simply because those are more typically in line with historical women's roles. Not the case for everyone, but it happens a lot.

As for the cheating--premed kids cheat all the time, and not just the old fashioned way. What is worse, tossing back some adderall to help you cram for a test, or changing a couple questions on a scantron? Its really sad and frusturating to me that this kid may have screwed over his whole future for getting caught when there are worse offenders out there who will never get caught. I tend to think that you might be ok for DO school if you can explain it and the schools will hear you out. The problem is, you might be borderline already since you have a lower-end MCAT and low GPA. I would say take a couple years off and strengthen your application in some way--which I would probably advise you to do even without the cheating situation. Get a MS or join the peace corps or TFA or something interesting to give back. You'll be fine.

I knew a few people in undergrad that cheated, but there are those of us that never did. I think we need to be rewarded for that in the sense that cheaters should be punished harshly. I'm not saying redemption can't exist, but if you're found cheating, there needs to be consequences. I don't see why that's "sad and frustrating" to you if it is their own doing. Sure, people don't get caught for worse things, but that's no excuse to give those caught a free pass.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Darthberghen]

As for the cheating--premed kids cheat all the time, and not just the old fashioned way. What is worse, tossing back some adderall to help you cram for a test, or changing a couple questions on a scantron? Its really sad and frusturating to me that this kid may have screwed over his whole future for getting caught when there are worse offenders out there who will never get caught. I tend to think that you might be ok for DO school if you can explain it and the schools will hear you out.

Bad assumption. DO schools have never tolerated or condoned cheaters and miscreants. There is zero tolerance for cheating and lying in medicine.

 

[schwasted589]

I knew a few people in undergrad that cheated, but there are those of us that never did. I think we need to be rewarded for that in the sense that cheaters should be punished harshly. I'm not saying redemption can't exist, but if you're found cheating, there needs to be consequences. I don't see why that's "sad and frustrating" to you if it is their own doing. Sure, people don't get caught for worse things, but that's no excuse to give those caught a free pass.

agreed. this was especially an issue with the program I did this past year.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

I knew a few people in undergrad that cheated, but there are those of us that never did. I think we need to be rewarded for that in the sense that cheaters should be punished harshly. I'm not saying redemption can't exist, but if you're found cheating, there needs to be consequences. I don't see why that's "sad and frustrating" to you if it is their own doing. Sure, people don't get caught for worse things, but that's no excuse to give those caught a free pass.

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[CnsCrit]

True, I agree that those that do get caught shouldn't be given a free pass. And, I didn't mean to suggest that DO schools would be any different than MD schools in terms of valuing academic honesty. I guess it just brought back some memories of people who I felt got away with chronic cheating.

 

[boxer0011]

The OP got into medical school, and a number of acceptances. Very inspiring

 

[cetrav]

Hey all... so what about *non*-academic dishonesty... a drinking related incident that I owned up to? Hopefully that's not as serious as cheating.

 

[Goro]

Nope, not as serious.

Hey all... so what about *non*-academic dishonesty... a drinking related incident that I owned up to? Hopefully that's not as serious as cheating.

 

[rangerdad]

Yeah....I mean morally you would be obligated to report it regardless....

Life is gray! Why should he ruin a lifetime opportunity for one mistake? Never understood the premises of blind honesty. Just my two cents.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Life is gray! Why should he ruin a lifetime opportunity for one mistake? Never understood the premises of blind honesty. Just my two cents.

Schools want blind honest because it is helps them both pick the ones they want and weeds out the ones they don't. It helps the school more than the student really.

 

[rangerdad]

I understand the process but HE should not risk his future (what ever it may be) if his record does not have a mark, morality aside. I cannot conclude if at the end he will be a good or bad doctor, but that's not the point I am defending or arguing.

 

[SOOyC52H1Sof]

calc 3 and calc 4, got Bs.

TIL there are 4 calculuses. Did you take it on a quarter system or something?

 

[IslandStyle808]

I understand the process but HE should not risk his future (what ever it may be) if his record does not have a mark, morality aside. I cannot conclude if at the end he will be a good or bad doctor, but that's not the point I am defending or arguing.

Sorry forgot to respond back. 'Blind honesty' never helps the student and always helps the school. I was never arguing against your point and actually agree with you completely. What I am trying to state is that medical schools never tell applicants NOT to divulge a weakness.

 

[kratosis]

Yes I was accepted to WVSOM And my state school in NY... Finishing my first year this summer. Thank you all for your honest intentions. this was quite the stereotypical SDN experience. lol

 

[IslandStyle808]

Yes I was accepted to WVSOM And my state school in NY... Finishing my first year this summer. Thank you all for your honest intentions. this was quite the stereotypical SDN experience. lol

Don't take SDN as the be all end all. There are many different people who take situations like this differently. I had two friends who withdrew from formal post-baccs (medical school level courses) and are currently in medical school (both MD). SDN would have said their chances of entering medial school are zero, but really it is more of a case by case situation.

Congrats none the less though. You are living your dream.

 

[Major]

OP^

 

[Major]

But seriously OP, congrats on your acceptance and completion of 1st year

 

[BorntobeDO?]

thank you for your input... i still do not know what trolling really means and im new to SDN.. is it like people who insanely lie about stats, stories, etc?!?!

my arrest is not on my record as it was wrongfully arrested for a crime i did not commit so the judge simply dismissed it.

i know being an Asian is no excuse, i was just trying to explain our culture which a bit different from the western culture, so you all should be grateful to God for having understanding parents. it am not blaming anyone but myself.

my cGPA is 3.1 and sGPA is 3.6 with a 27 MCAT: 8,9,10 (PS, VB, BS). so no, i do not have stellar stats, below avg cGPA in fact.

i am planning on applying to PA schools as a backup.

Congrats on getting accepted.

 

[EDK]

Yes I was accepted to WVSOM And my state school in NY... Finishing my first year this summer. Thank you all for your honest intentions. this was quite the stereotypical SDN experience. lol

Hey kratosis, I PM'ed you in the morning. If you don't mind, can you take a look at the message/conversation? Thank you and congrats.

 

[PA-idiot]

Yes I was accepted to WVSOM And my state school in NY... Finishing my first year this summer. Thank you all for your honest intentions. this was quite the stereotypical SDN experience. lol

I was wondering if you ended up telling them about the misconduct when you applied or was it not brought up?

 

[adrian710]

So I was academiclly dishonest. I got my exam scantron back and changed 2 answers and gave it back to the professor saying the scantron made a mistake. Yes i know, very pathetic.

my question is how do i explain this in the primary explanation, there is not enough room to explain it fully. i am afraid if i leave it general as in (i was academically dishonest) they might think i copied off a student during an exam or something.

it happened once and never again in the following 3 semesters, nor will it ever happen again. i have learned my lesson.

also i am scared if i report it, i may be screened out because of it, and if i dont, what if they do a check and find out?

any suggestions/advice on how to write about this in the primary? and what if i dont report it for the fear of being automatically rejected??

any help is appreciated!

I would prove yourself in a masters program and go from there. Too many other students to pick from. Why would they risk picking a cheater at their school?

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Jeez there are an awful lot of IA posts lately. You folks are the true underdogs.

 

[drchubbycheeks]

Yes I was accepted to WVSOM And my state school in NY... Finishing my first year this summer. Thank you all for your honest intentions. this was quite the stereotypical SDN experience. lol

Did you report the charge on your application or did you take a long shot and put no and hoped they wouldn’t see it?

 

[Robin-jay]

I have been arrested too, in my days of ignorance. hahah

Before or after 18?

 

[Robin-jay]

I would not trust a doctor who cheated even on something minor and has shown a willingness to cut corners. If I were on an admissions committee, this incident would make me wonder if the stresses of medical school would cause the student to do even more morally...

Soemtimes people forget that there's academics, and then there's real life.

Changing the scantron for extra points is a dumb mistake, and in the academia world, that can be pretty cut throat. But working in a hospital, I can tell you there are much more significant things than worrying if your phsician cheated on a physics test.

I believe in redemption though, in terms of one msitake. If you did this twice, you deserve to be blacklisted.

 

[de Ribas]

old thread

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

I think this post and OP's success in getting gaining acceptance should demonstrate the overemphasis that many people seem to place on the effect of academic dishonesty on medical schools applications. EVERYBODY cheats at some point in this path. However, people here appear to enjoy hypocritically talking down to those who are unfortunate enough to get caught. Especially if it is over something minor like one question on a scantron, I defy someone to rationally state one reason why someone who sporadically engages in this type of behavior should be barred from becoming a doctor.

 

[Goro]

I think this post and OP's success in getting gaining acceptance should demonstrate the overemphasis that many people seem to place on the effect of academic dishonesty on medical schools applications. EVERYBODY cheats at some point in this path. However, people here appear to enjoy hypocritically talking down to those who are unfortunate enough to get caught. Especially if it is over something minor like one question on a scantron, I defy someone to rationally state one reason why someone who sporadically engages in this type of behavior should be barred from becoming a doctor.

If we have to explain it to you, you won't understand anyway.

 

[de Ribas]

Especially if it is over something minor like one question on a scantron, I defy someone to rationally state one reason why someone who sporadically engages in this type of behavior should be barred from becoming a doctor.

I doubt that one who cheated only with 1 question on a Scranton never cheated before or will not cheat in the future. Yes, people learn from their mistakes, but more often cheating comes as a package and not as an individual occurence.

 

[Osminog]

I think this post and OP's success in getting gaining acceptance should demonstrate the overemphasis that many people seem to place on the effect of academic dishonesty on medical schools applications. EVERYBODY cheats at some point in this path. However, people here appear to enjoy hypocritically talking down to those who are unfortunate enough to get caught. Especially if it is over something minor like one question on a scantron, I defy someone to rationally state one reason why someone who sporadically engages in this type of behavior should be barred from becoming a doctor.

Academic dishonesty is not just a type of dishonesty, but it's also the most immoral type of dishonesty: lying for personal gain, at others' expense.

Honesty is a core component of a career in medicine. If you can't be honest to your patients, your colleagues, the public, etc., then you can't be a competent physician. If you are tempted to lie for personal gain, at others' expense, then you shouldn't be allowed within a ten mile radius of a white coat and stethoscope.

 

[Magus5454]

I think this post and OP's success in getting gaining acceptance should demonstrate the overemphasis that many people seem to place on the effect of academic dishonesty on medical schools applications. EVERYBODY cheats at some point in this path. However, people here appear to enjoy hypocritically talking down to those who are unfortunate enough to get caught. Especially if it is over something minor like one question on a scantron, I defy someone to rationally state one reason why someone who sporadically engages in this type of behavior should be barred from becoming a doctor.

Not everyone cheats. I think the idea is repugnant

 

[MD-2021]

I think this post and OP's success in getting gaining acceptance should demonstrate the overemphasis that many people seem to place on the effect of academic dishonesty on medical schools applications. EVERYBODY cheats at some point in this path. However, people here appear to enjoy hypocritically talking down to those who are unfortunate enough to get caught. Especially if it is over something minor like one question on a scantron, I defy someone to rationally state one reason why someone who sporadically engages in this type of behavior should be barred from becoming a doctor.

Well, OP is going to be a doctor in July. To me, it seemed like he was genuinely remorseful and I think he'll probably be a pretty good doctor.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Well, OP is going to be a doctor in July. To me, it seemed like he was genuinely remorseful and I think he'll probably be a pretty good doctor.

Well that's if he passed his boards and matches.

 

[Goro]

Not everyone cheats. I think the idea is repugnant

Generally, I've learned that people who engage in undesirable activities tend to project and think that all people engage in such activities. I forget the psychological term for that.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Generally, I've that people who engage in undesirable activities tend to project and think that all people engage in such activities. I forget the psychological term for that.

Nobody's integrity is completely impeccable. If you really believe that there are people out there who have never done anything that can be deemed as academic dishonesty, you probably aren't looking close enough.

 

[Goro]

Nobody's integrity is completely impeccable. If you really believe that there are people out there who have never done anything that can be deemed as academic dishonesty, you probably aren't looking close enough.

Solipcism is a sin, you know.

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

Solipcism is a sin, you know.

I must admit I had to look that one up. I do not believe I am saying that only my opinion counts. Just noting what I have seen over time. I have never met anyone who has not violated some academic policy one way or another while I was an undergrad. Whether that be sharing quiz answers to those who haven't taken them yet, clicking in for others who are not in class, or getting finished assignments from older classmates, I really don't think there is anyone out there who has not done something that medical schools would deem as "academic dishonesty."

 

[de Ribas]

I must admit I had to look that one up. I do not believe I am saying that only my opinion counts. Just noting what I have seen over time. I have never met anyone who has not violated some academic policy one way or another while I was an undergrad. Whether that be sharing quiz answers to those who haven't taken them yet, clicking in for others who are not in class, or getting finished assignments from older classmates, I really don't think there is anyone out there who has not done something that medical schools would deem as "academic dishonesty."

Honestly, I have not done anything you listed in my undergraduate career. I have seen people too working on Orgo Labs together and even copying from others, but I always believed that most students are honest and never cheat. Maybe I am naive.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Honestly, I have not done anything you listed in my undergraduate career. I have seen people too working on Orgo Labs together and even copying from others, but I always believed that most students are honest and never cheat. Maybe I am naive.

You’re depressingly naive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[de Ribas]

You’re depressingly naive.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

thanks

 

[anonybear]

Nah your cynicism is way more depressing. I never did any of those things in college. Or high school. I always got the sense that people who did things like that thought that it was ok because "everyone" did it... Because that feels better than realizing some people actually don't cheat even when no one's watching.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Nah your cynicism is way more depressing. I never did any of those things in college. Or high school. I always got the sense that people who did things like that thought that it was ok because "everyone" did it... Because that feels better than realizing some people actually don't cheat even when no one's watching.

Congratulations, you’re part of the extreme minority. The overwhelming majority of students commit SOME type of academic dishonesty, even if it’s extremely minor. I’m not a cynic, I’m a realist.
Never collaborated on an online quiz with someone? Never once in your life copied one single math problem? Most people have, and that includes most doctors. If that fact makes you depressed, deal with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[de Ribas]

Congratulations, you’re part of the extreme minority. The overwhelming majority of students commit SOME type of academic dishonesty, even if it’s extremely minor. I’m not a cynic, I’m a realist.
Never collaborated on an online quiz with someone? Never once in your life copied one single math problem? Most people have, and that includes most doctors. If that fact makes you depressed, deal with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

did you perform a study on this? how do you know that most people do it? just because you think it is or believe in it?

Did you survey college students on this topic? what is the source of information?

 

[Doc_Ock]

did you perform a study on this? how do you know that most people do it? just because you think it is or believe in it?

Did you survey college students on this topic? what is the source of information?

You’re a special kind of ignorant.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[The Dragon Slayer]

The people who are pretending that this sort of behavior is not practiced nearly unanimously by pre-meds either live under a rock or are going through their classes with their eyes shut.

 

[NicMouse64]

The people who are pretending that this sort of behavior is not practiced nearly unanimously by pre-meds either live under a rock or are going through their classes with their eyes shut.

I live under an honorable rock. Some schools have very strict policies when it comes to academic dishonesty. Some people have morals and some people have calculated that it's just not worth it. I could have been dishonest and gotten away with it plenty of times, but I did the calculation in my head it wasn't worth the risk. I may have graduated with just a 3.5, but I tried my best, won some and lost some, and have had interviews this cycle. If I had a big fat academic IA with a 3.9, I likely would not have any MD interviews.

 

[nezpas]

Congratulations (even though it is 5 years late), @kratosis on beating the odds and redeeming yourself.

 

[Kr#36]

Interesting to see a couple people who are so confident that "everyone" does this. I've never done it, nor did those I know well who are currently in or about to enter a career in medicine. Its easier to convince yourself that everyone cheats than it is to accept that people are outperforming you without cheating...

 

[Goro]

Congratulations, you’re part of the extreme minority. The overwhelming majority of students commit SOME type of academic dishonesty, even if it’s extremely minor. I’m not a cynic, I’m a realist.
Never collaborated on an online quiz with someone? Never once in your life copied one single math problem? Most people have, and that includes most doctors. If that fact makes you depressed, deal with it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Citations please. Again, avoid the sin of solipsism.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Citations please. Again, avoid the sin of solipsism.

Plagiarism: Facts & Stats - Plagiarism.org
"95 percent said they participated in some form of cheating, whether it was on a test, plagiarism or copying homework."
Eat it.