Academic Dismissal and Transferring

[Edward75]

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Hello,

I have a very tricky situation that I could use some advice on. I realize in advance that my options are severely limited, but am seeking advice from members on this board who might be able to offer a unique perspective.

I have recently been dismissed from my PharmD program at a highly regarded College of Pharmacy for academic reasons. In short, I could not handle the workload during my P4 clinical rotations and failed two rotations. I have severe anxiety, and this condition was known to the College and some accomodations were granted. Unfortunately, despite this assistance, it was deemed that I was not effecient nor proficient enough to meet the requirements for a P4 student. I can assure you that I was always personable and professional at my rotation sites and my dismissal from the College was solely due to academic reasons.

I am not ready to give up on my dream to become a pharmacist, although admittedly the cards are stacked against me. Is anyone on this board familiar with students gaining admission into another PharmD program despite being dismissed from a prior one? Thank you for any constructive advice you can provide.

 

[spacecowgirl]

In my experience (trying to transfer after P1), no one would take a transfer student in good standing without repeating a year + extra pre-reqs and even then it was not a guarantee. I don't think transferring after dismissal is likely. Your best bet is to contact schools directly. Sucks that you got this far (in debt).

 

[lactonerx]

Why isn't it an option to repeat your P4 year at the same institution after a demonstration of self improvement?

 

[Chris co2012]

I'm a P4 student as well.

I've heard that it's way worse to fail a rotation than it is to fail and get held back during years 1-3. I doubt you'll get another opportunity if they kicked you out for good. You should definitely appeal if possible.

 

[ValeRx]

I have never heard of anyone failing rotations unless you either a) didn't show up or b) didn't know ANYTHING. I knew of people who weren't the sharpest tools in the shed and still got A/B. In fact the lowest rotation grade I've ever heard of was a B+.

 

[bacillus1]

I have never heard of anyone failing rotations unless you either a) didn't show up or b) didn't know ANYTHING. I knew of people who weren't the sharpest tools in the shed and still got A/B. In fact the lowest rotation grade I've ever heard of was a B+.

I think this depends on the school and the preceptor. I've heard that it's not that hard to fail rotations in some places. I know people that got Cs on rotations in my school while doing pretty good work, and that would be failing in some programs.

 

[Edward75]

Thank you to all that replied. I requested that they allow me to repeat my P4 year but they did not grant that. Many people think that you have to do something heinous in order to fail a rotation, or be a total dunce. At my university there is a 1-4 point rating scale, where 4 is best (reserved for top 10% of students) and 1 is worst (not ready for practice). There are 10-15 different competencies listed under each point and you need to satisfy all of them in order to be awarded a particular point. So if you meet 14/15 of the competencies listed to score a 2 you by definition are assigned a 1 because you did not meet them all. All or nothing. The points are then tallied for a letter grade. I don't agree with this kind of scoring. And I think some preceptors follow this regimented grading system very closely while others are a little more relaxed when assigning points. I certainly think I had room for improvement and accept some of the responsibility...I simply do not think that I deserve to be dismissed when I have come this far. I am dismayed to hear that rotation grading is not this rigorous at other institutions, not because I believe that it should be, but because I wish I had chosen a school that was a little more relaxed and nurturing.

 

[Chris co2012]

I have never heard of anyone failing rotations unless you either a) didn't show up or b) didn't know ANYTHING. I knew of people who weren't the sharpest tools in the shed and still got A/B. In fact the lowest rotation grade I've ever heard of was a B+.

I think this depends on the school and the preceptor. I've heard that it's not that hard to fail rotations in some places. I know people that got Cs on rotations in my school while doing pretty good work, and that would be failing in some programs.

I got a C on a rotation. It was damn hard, and quite honestly, I wasn't interested in that particular practice. So I didn't care. I wasn't about to work my a** off to become a specialist for that one rotation. Then, the very next rotation, my preceptor/co-preceptors told me that I was the best of the five students we had there. I was very interested in my role there.

So, it really all depends.

Not to mention, I have personal feelings about how pharmacy is made up of a bunch of whiners who want to be physicians. *waits to get slammed by next poster for this comment*

 

[taken2]

I got a C on a rotation. It was damn hard, and quite honestly, I wasn't interested in that particular practice. So I didn't care. I wasn't about to work my a** off to become a specialist for that one rotation. Then, the very next rotation, my preceptor/co-preceptors told me that I was the best of the five students we had there. I was very interested in my role there.

So, it really all depends.

Not to mention, I have personal feelings about how pharmacy is made up of a bunch of whiners who want to be physicians. *waits to get slammed by next poster for this comment*

This is how I feel too about some preceptors especially clinical pharmacists. I personally do not like the idea of dismissing students in their final year of pharmacy school. I believe that any student that made it to final year in any program is capable of practising as a pharmacist. every pharmacy setting is not for everyone. I hated my clinical rotations. journal club, drug monographs, presentations and putting up with all the doctor wannabe clinical pharmacists was just too much for me. I loved community rotation and ended up doing 12 weeks at wal mart. Everyone should be given a chance, don't give them an A if they don't deserve it but don't fail them either.

 

[Chris co2012]

This is how I feel too about some preceptors especially clinical pharmacists. I personally do not like the idea of dismissing students in their final year of pharmacy school. I believe that any student that made it to final year in any program is capable of practising as a pharmacist. every pharmacy setting is not for everyone. I hated my clinical rotations. journal club, drug monographs, presentations and putting up with all the doctor wannabe clinical pharmacists was just too much for me. I loved community rotation and ended up doing 12 weeks at wal mart. Everyone should be given a chance, don't give them an A if they don't deserve it but don't fail them either.

I just thank God that I have easy rotations from here on out. That one rotation was my only intense clinical rotation. When that particular preceptor asked, "Do you have a cardio rotation?" I had quite the chuckle.

 

[Zytiga]

I am sorry to hear about your situation. I hate to say it but I would consider talking to a lawyer who specializes in your situation. Did they give you an mid evaluation and say you are at risk of failing? Those things matter.

 

[Sparda29]

Nope, I know someone who was failed because of personal problems with the preceptor.

This girl I know went to the rotation, and was getting a lot of attention from one of the guys there. The preceptor didn't like this because she was in love with that guy and wasn't happy that he was giving attention to this student instead of the preceptor. The problem was resolved once the school found out what was happening.

That's why I try to keep relationships out of the workplace. In fact, one of my preceptors turned out to be from the same mosque that my parents go to and was good friends with my mom. She was trying to set me up with her daughter, rofl.

 

[Dalteparin]

This is how I feel too about some preceptors especially clinical pharmacists. I personally do not like the idea of dismissing students in their final year of pharmacy school. I believe that any student that made it to final year in any program is capable of practising as a pharmacist.

I don't like the idea of dismissing students in their final year either. If the person truly can't practice, they should have been dismissed well before their 4th year. It's unfair for the school to a) send the student farther into debt which they won't be able to pay off and b) expect the rotation preceptors to make up for 4 years of neglect in one rotation, or even one year of rotations. (The very few times I've had a student who I considered flunking, it seemed that this was what the school expected of me. Just my opinion.)

Not to mention, I have personal feelings about how pharmacy is made up of a bunch of whiners who want to be physicians. *waits to get slammed by next poster for this comment*

I think some clinical pharmacists do have a stuck-up attitude. I am a clinical pharmacist and I sometimes get sick of them! But if you come to my rotation with the attitude of "you're a whiner who just wants to be an MD and I don't care about learning from you," don't be shocked if I take points off your grade... or complain about your bad attitude to someone I know who might be in a position to hire you. You don't need to like my area of practice or even want to be a clinical pharmacist, but you do need put some effort into the assignments I give you.

 

[Chris co2012]

I think some clinical pharmacists do have a stuck-up attitude. I am a clinical pharmacist and I sometimes get sick of them! But if you come to my rotation with the attitude of "you're a whiner who just wants to be an MD and I don't care about learning from you," don't be shocked if I take points off your grade... or complain about your bad attitude to someone I know who might be in a position to hire you. You don't need to like my area of practice or even want to be a clinical pharmacist, but you do need put some effort into the assignments I give you.

You would be mistaken to think I'd express my feelings to you openly.

And just because I feel the way I do, that doesn't mean I have a poor attitude. I'm not rebelling against learning. I'm stating my beliefs about what a pharmacist is and where he/she stands among healthcare professionals. You're not a physician, and you'll never be one.

I went to pharmacy school to become a pharmacist, and unfortunately, I think the meaning of a pharmacist is changing because of politics. To add to that, I've noticed that there are certain specialists out there who love the words I, me, my, and myself.

 

[Praziquantel86]

As others have said, I don't think you'll have a very easy go of it trying to transfer. I would attempt to exhaust all appeals at your school (take it as high as they can go) before thinking about transferring.

You may be granted acceptance at another school, you may not. You may have to repeat the curriculum, you may not. The only way to find out is to start calling around, as this is obviously all incredibly situation-specific.

 

[Dalteparin]

You would be mistaken to think I'd express my feelings to you openly.

And just because I feel the way I do, that doesn't mean I have a poor attitude.

Good! Your posts here had me fooled, but I'm glad you have the sense not to say things like this in real life. (I've had some students who weren't as wise as you.)

You're not a physician, and you'll never be one.

Again, that's good!! Like you, I went to pharmacy school to be a pharmacist. You couldn't pay me enough money to be an MD.

Anyway, I'm done hijacking the thread now. OP, if you really think you were wrongfully dismissed, get a lawyer.

 

[Chris co2012]

Good! Your posts here had me fooled, but I'm glad you have the sense not to say things like this in real life. (I've had some students who weren't as wise as you.)

Well, I'm allowed to have a poor attitude in retrospect, aren't I? 😉