Academic dismissal

[Nicholas29]

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Hi guys, I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I graduated from University of Rhode island in 2008 with a B.S. in Biological Sciences and a chem minor, with a cumulative gpa of 3.540 and my science gpa is somewhere around 3.7.

I am also a professional musician (pianist) and rather than going to grad school (which i should have done initially) I have been having fun making a living with gigs. I have realized however that this is not the most stable career path especially in such a small area as Rhode Island.

Here is my major concern as I have had a recent epiphany and decided that I want to apply to pharmacy school. I made the stupid choice of enrolling in an MBA program at Johnson and Wales which was not well planned and thought out. After my uncle's untimely passing the following year, when I was about half way through it, and due to the fact that I had absolutely no interest in the curriculum, I withdrew halfway through the spring semester, taking F's and getting academically dismissed. (pathetic I know)

anyways, I feel that with respect to applying to Pharmacy or any health profession related graduate program, that my performance and record in my undergrad degree exemplifies my aptitude and ability with science. What I am wondering is this:

Do I need to tell them that I did half an MBA when I apply? Or can I only send the transcripts of my successfully completed and pertinent degree? And if i elect to not give them that information about the dismissal, will they see it , find out regardless? I haven't contacted any admissions offices but I'm assuming they will say "give us all transcripts and explain in your personal statement" or something along those lines.

My apologies for the lengthy post but I am extremely grateful for any and all feedback if anyone has a free minute.

Nick

 

[RxConfused]

Hi guys, I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I graduated from University of Rhode island in 2008 with a B.S. in Biological Sciences and a chem minor, with a cumulative gpa of 3.540 and my science gpa is somewhere around 3.7.

I am also a professional musician (pianist) and rather than going to grad school (which i should have done initially) I have been having fun making a living with gigs. I have realized however that this is not the most stable career path especially in such a small area as Rhode Island.

Here is my major concern as I have had a recent epiphany and decided that I want to apply to pharmacy school. I made the stupid choice of enrolling in an MBA program at Johnson and Wales which was not well planned and thought out. After my uncle's untimely passing the following year, when I was about half way through it, and due to the fact that I had absolutely no interest in the curriculum, I withdrew halfway through the spring semester, taking F's and getting academically dismissed. (pathetic I know)

anyways, I feel that with respect to applying to Pharmacy or any health profession related graduate program, that my performance and record in my undergrad degree exemplifies my aptitude and ability with science. What I am wondering is this:

Do I need to tell them that I did half an MBA when I apply? Or can I only send the transcripts of my successfully completed and pertinent degree? And if i elect to not give them that information about the dismissal, will they see it , find out regardless? I haven't contacted any admissions offices but I'm assuming they will say "give us all transcripts and explain in your personal statement" or something along those lines.

My apologies for the lengthy post but I am extremely grateful for any and all feedback if anyone has a free minute.

Nick

Hi Nick,
I'm a current student at the College of Pharmacy in URI. So it's really nice to see a post from a fellow Rhody Ram. And you do need to tell them about the MBA, even if you didn't finish it, since you need to send them transcripts from all the colleges you've ever attended. Plus, they may find out about it on their own and that would be worse because it would seem like you're trying to hide it. I don't think you need to explain it in your personal statement, because it's not really relevant to what you're going to be studying. However, you should have some kind of explanation ready, if they ask you about it in the interview. I'm assuming that you were gonna apply to URI, but you should also apply to other colleges nearby like Massachusetts College of Pharmacy, because URI only has a limited amount of seats for transfer students since they mostly take people directly from high school.

 

[Nicholas29]

Hi Nick,
I'm a current student at the College of Pharmacy in URI. So it's really nice to see a post from a fellow Rhody Ram. And you do need to tell them about the MBA, even if you didn't finish it, since you need to send them transcripts from all the colleges you've ever attended. Plus, they may find out about it on their own and that would be worse because it would seem like you're trying to hide it. I don't think you need to explain it in your personal statement, because it's not really relevant to what you're going to be studying. However, you should have some kind of explanation ready, if they ask you about it in the interview. I'm assuming that you were gonna apply to URI, but you should also apply to other colleges nearby like Massachusetts College of Pharmacy, because URI only has a limited amount of seats for transfer students since they mostly take people directly from high school.

Thanks for you reply. PM me your name im sure you know some people I do from uri I'll hit you up on facebook.

I dont get why I need to tell them about it? It's completely irrelevant to pharmacy. are you like 100% positive?

 

[chemguy79]

Thanks for you reply. PM me your name im sure you know some people I do from uri I'll hit you up on facebook.

I dont get why I need to tell them about it? It's completely irrelevant to pharmacy. are you like 100% positive?

100% positive. You are required to report all grades that you've earned.

Granted, it's less than ideal, but your personal statement is the an opportunity for you to rectify past transgressions in your academic history.

Some would say to ignore mentioning it in your personal statement; However, in my opinion, the sooner that you address the issue regarding said program, the better off you'll be. An admissions committee member could say, "He quit one professional program. How are we to believe that he wouldn't quit ours?"

Furthermore, you'll have a stark downward trend in grades and it's better to explain it rather than to be rejected before an interview, finding out that the unfinished MBA program was the issue for said rejection.

 

[Nicholas29]

100% positive. You are required to report all grades that you've earned.

Granted, it's less than ideal, but your personal statement is the an opportunity for you to rectify past transgressions in your academic history.

Some would say to ignore mentioning it in your personal statement; However, in my opinion, the sooner that you address the issue regarding said program, the better off you'll be. An admissions committee member could say, "He quit one professional program. How are we to believe that he wouldn't quit ours?"

Furthermore, you'll have a stark downward trend in grades and it's better to explain it rather than to be rejected before an interview, finding out that the unfinished MBA program was the issue for said rejection.

Thanks. Yeah on my transcript it will show a trend from mid 3.5 range for first part then downward spiral

 

[chemguy79]

Thanks. Yeah on my transcript it will show a trend from mid 3.5 range for first part then downward spiral

All hope isn't lost ... (1) Be prepared that you will definitely be asked about it at interviews. Therefore, develop a strategy for explaining what happened in the program. (2) You'll need to show your interest (dare I say, passion) in/for pharmacy through extracurriculars, shadowing, and prepare to be asked if you'll leave this program if the material doesn't interest you.

Is it a cause for concern? Definitely. Is it completely irredeemable? Of course not.

It's definitely possible to get accepted with black marks on our transcript. However, it's up to the applicant to show that the marks are abnormalities versus a trend.

Avenues for Redemption: (1) Take the PCAT. (2) Shadow and work as a pharmacy tech if you're not doing so currently. (3) I don't know if taking classes would help since you've likely taken the pre-reqs, but you should do SOMETHING to reverse the trend in grades.

Good luck.

 

[Nicholas29]

All hope isn't lost ... (1) Be prepared that you will definitely be asked about it at interviews. Therefore, develop a strategy for explaining what happened in the program. (2) You'll need to show your interest (dare I say, passion) in/for pharmacy through extracurriculars, shadowing, and prepare to be asked if you'll leave this program if the material doesn't interest you.

Is it a cause for concern? Definitely. Is it completely irredeemable? Of course not.

It's definitely possible to get accepted with black marks on our transcript. However, it's up to the applicant to show that the marks are abnormalities versus a trend.

Avenues for Redemption: (1) Take the PCAT. (2) Shadow and work as a pharmacy tech if you're not doing so currently. (3) I don't know if taking classes would help since you've likely taken the pre-reqs, but you should do SOMETHING to reverse the trend in grades.

Good luck.

Thanks man. My whole thing is im just wondering how they would know. The undergrad institution where i took all pre-req I did very well. I dont know how they would find out I went anywhere else. That's what I'm saying.

 

[owlegrad]

100% positive. You are required to report all grades that you've earned.

Granted, it's less than ideal, but your personal statement is the an opportunity for you to rectify past transgressions in your academic history.

Some would say to ignore mentioning it in your personal statement; However, in my opinion, the sooner that you address the issue regarding said program, the better off you'll be. An admissions committee member could say, "He quit one professional program. How are we to believe that he wouldn't quit ours?"

Furthermore, you'll have a stark downward trend in grades and it's better to explain it rather than to be rejected before an interview, finding out that the unfinished MBA program was the issue for said rejection.

Hi, I am that guy.

IF the schools you are applying to have a supplemental section, mention it there and leave the PS for being your showcase of why pharmacy, why you will make a great pharmacist, etc. If the schools you are applying to do not have a supplemental essay, then I think chemguy's advice is rock solid. 👍

EDIT: And chemguy is correct, you must report all coursework, even the stuff you don't want to.

 

[Nicholas29]

Hi, I am that guy.

IF the schools you are applying to have a supplemental section, mention it there and leave the PS for being your showcase of why pharmacy, why you will make a great pharmacist, etc. If the schools you are applying to do not have a supplemental essay, then I think chemguy's advice is rock solid. 👍

I guess what I need to know is, how on earth would they know I was in a grad program if I don't mention it/ provide the transcript? I want to give the transcript that is pertinent to pharmacy.

 

[owlegrad]

I guess what I need to know is, how on earth would they know I was in a grad program if I don't mention it/ provide the transcript? I want to give the transcript that is pertinent to pharmacy.

You are headed down a bad road my friend. They will know. And even if you get away with concealing it (you won't), trying to start your career with dishonesty? Classy.

It is shockingly easy in this day and age to see every school a person has attended. In the past people have posted links to that exact service.

But don't give up hope. Our very own SHC1984 dropped out of dental school to pursue pharmacy. Others have similar stories. Yours may be different considering the F's and all, but that is what supplemental essays are for! Good Luck!

 

[Nicholas29]

You are headed down a bad road my friend. They will know. And even if you get away with concealing it (you won't), trying to start your career with dishonesty? Classy.

It is shockingly easy in this day and age to see every school a person has attended. In the past people have posted links to that exact service.

But don't give up hope. Our very own SHC1984 dropped out of dental school to pursue pharmacy. Others have similar stories. Yours may be different considering the F's and all, but that is what supplemental essays are for! Good Luck!

Fair enough. I can definitely explain it.

 

[chemguy79]

I guess what I need to know is, how on earth would they know I was in a grad program if I don't mention it/ provide the transcript? I want to give the transcript that is pertinent to pharmacy.

Easy answer; Did you accept financial aid? Schools routinely look up information to see if students are honest about where they attended schools. Your FAFSA would be a dead giveaway. If you didn't accept aid, you will need to report this information on PHARMCAS. Besides, if I were your classmate, I'd rat you out in a second. =) Bottom line ... You will get caught if you lie about it, point blank.

The fact that you're thinking about concealing the information is a poor way to start thinking a career in the healthcare field. Not a flame, but we both know that it's fact.

 

[Nicholas29]

Is there somewhere online where I can view my academic record I wonder?

 

[owlegrad]

Is there somewhere online where I can view my academic record I wonder?

An easy place to start is google. I bet you can find it using that in no time. 👍

 

[Nicholas29]

It's not as straight forward as I thought it was.

 

[Nicholas29]

Does anyone know where I can look up academic records? Assuming I apply somewhere and leave out a detail. I want to know how they would be able to find out.

 

[30Percent]

Does anyone know where I can look up academic records? Assuming I apply somewhere and leave out a detail. I want to know how they would be able to find out.

No

 

[Nicholas29]

No

No, you dont know of a site, or no they wont find out? this is really annoying me haha

 

[chemguy79]

Does anyone know where I can look up academic records? Assuming I apply somewhere and leave out a detail. I want to know how they would be able to find out.

Leaving out a detail as in attending a graduate program previously, being academically dismissed from the program, and trying to ensure that another program can't track down that information ...

The participants on this thread have offered you sound advice. If you insist on trying to lie/cover up parts your academic history to get accepted to pharmacy school, I can't imagine that there are many people (if any) on this board who are going to help you out with that. Numerous people have stated that you have to own up to your academic history. Honesty isn't the best policy ... it's the ONLY policy and if you choose not to do that, the onus is on you ... However, you will get caught for lying, period.

 

[Nicholas29]

Leaving out a detail as in attending a graduate program previously, being academically dismissed from the program, and trying to ensure that another program can't track down that information ...

The participants on this thread have offered you sound advice. If you insist on trying to lie/cover up parts your academic history to get accepted to pharmacy school, I can't imagine that there are many people (if any) on this board who are going to help you out with that. Numerous people have stated that you have to own up to your academic history. Honesty isn't the best policy ... it's the ONLY policy and if you choose not to do that, the onus is on you ... However, you will get caught for lying, period.

I understand what you are saying. I just dont see how it even matters and how they would magically know I did half an MBA. It has nothing to do with science and the courses I took for my BioSci degree I did well. I understand you and majority of members of the site are honest and good people and I respect that. I am just curious how they would just know I am leaving something out. I really dont feel bad doing so as I feel that entire MBA experience was a waste of a year of my life.

 

[UMterps]

AFAIK there isn't any "master file" that has a record of every institution that you attend. If you have ever applied for/accepted financial aid there will be a paper trail of that and I'm sure schools financial aid offices will be able to access this, especially since most aid nowadays is from the federal government through direct loans. when you apply and they ask for you to disclose ALL courses taken, not just those relevant to pharmacy, you are supposed to. You could roll the dice and hope that you don't get caught, but if you do, it should be immediate grounds for dismissal. its like lying on your resume or leaving stuff out to hide something. if they find it, they can terminate you. honestly, you're a grown man and its your call. its not like you can tell the admin office "SDN said I could leave it off". I do wonder why you didn't work w/ your professors to just withdraw you from the courses or give you an incomplete if you had extenuating circumstances. Fs and academic dismissals do not look good for schools either.

 

[cjflahave]

People have given their advice, but it seems you don't want to take it. Do what you want, but be willing to pay the consequences when you get caught.

 

[Nicholas29]

People have given their advice, but it seems you don't want to take it. Do what you want, but be willing to pay the consequences when you get caught.

People are giving their advice only to be 100% honest. I agree with the paper trail thing though. I'm an honest guy but I really would leave this one detail out if I could get away with it. I know thats kind of pathetic but its just the most drastic difference of transcripts, and I don't feel that it is an accurate example of my abilities as a student.

 

[cjflahave]

People are giving their advice only to be 100% honest. I agree with the paper trail thing though. I'm an honest guy but I really would leave this one detail out if I could get away with it. I know thats kind of pathetic but its just the most drastic difference of transcripts, and I don't feel that it is an accurate example of my abilities as a student.

They gave you the advice to be honest because if you do get caught, you will be dismissed. It's better to be straight up and explain it instead of being dismissed. It's your call though.

 

[Falokis]

If I remember right, Pharmcas asks for ALL transcripts. Believe me, I hated giving some of those up too. You should just apply, but do it when you are ready. Make sure you can say WHY you are ready now. Some people say not to put stuff like this in your PS, but I did and I got accepted, interviewed, or invited for an interview at every school I applied. It can probably help or hurt, but that all depends on how you word it and use it.

 

[Filler]

People are giving their advice only to be 100% honest. I agree with the paper trail thing though. I'm an honest guy but I really would leave this one detail out if I could get away with it. I know thats kind of pathetic but its just the most drastic difference of transcripts, and I don't feel that it is an accurate example of my abilities as a student.

Lets put it this way, your taking a huge risk trying to leave out that "little detail." At the end of the day, your going to spend a couple hundred to even thousands of dollars filling out the paperwork, taking the pcat, sending in supplemental app fees, going to interviews etc. If you get caught, all that time, money and effort will go down the drain..

And another thing, plenty of students that apply to pharm school have had a ****ty semester or two which didn't exactly provide an accurate example of their abilities, yet they didn't have the luxury of cherry picking their stats either.

Good luck.

 

[Project2015]

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/ might be the one tossed around. 🙄

 

[velvet75]

I was academically dismissed from a local community college due to two crappy semesters in a row but I didn't hide it from any of the pharmacy schools. Although, I didn't mention it in my personal statement there were some schools that asked if I had been academically dismissed. I merely told the truth and explained my situation. It is just so much easier to lay it on the line.

I feel being completely honest and straightforward helped me get into pharmacy school. I ended up having 3 interview invites out of the four schools that I applied to and was accepted to 2 of them.

I think it would hurt you more if you don't tell the truth!

 

[UES Girl]

Thanks for you reply. PM me your name im sure you know some people I do from uri I'll hit you up on facebook.

I dont get why I need to tell them about it? It's completely irrelevant to pharmacy. are you like 100% positive?

Are you kidding me ? 😕 Why do you need to tell them ? Because it shows adcoms exactly what you are trying to hide here, that given the lack of motivation on your part, you don't finish things you start. Who knows maybe you will decide pharm school is not what you and decide to drop out. I am not being a jerk here, I have seen this very thing happen within my own class - people dropping out because " they changed their mind" ultimately wasting someone else valuable spot. You might think you MBA efforts have nothing to do with pharmacy but in reality they do. Admissions need to know your prior academic history to make a call whether you are a right fit for their school and suited to be a pharmacist. If you have a valid reason for the dissmisal - death in a family, personal tragedy, etc, then you have nothing to fear as this sort of situation can then be explained in supplemental essays and even played up as: " look at what obstacles I've overcome in my past" card.

Bottom line is whether you get it or not, pharmcas specifically states in giant red letters that you must send in all transcripts, not just the pretty ones that work in your favor 🙄 and that by filling out application you agree or certify this to be true.The rest of us done it and survived. Should the school find out through background check or any other means that you lied and withheld this information, your acceptance will be withdrawn. I personally know someone who f@cked around similarly and their acceptance was suspended.


I may come across harsh in this post but it is because I am being harsh. The sole fact that you blatantly seem to not understand why you would need to disclose something like this is disturbing, appaling and infuriating. I'd expect heck of a lot more integrity and smarts from a fellow pianist.

 

[UES Girl]

Does anyone know where I can look up academic records? Assuming I apply somewhere and leave out a detail. I want to know how they would be able to find out.

🙄

 

[netmag]

I was academically dismissed from a local community college due to two crappy semesters in a row but I didn't hide it from any of the pharmacy schools. Although, I didn't mention it in my personal statement there were some schools that asked if I had been academically dismissed. I merely told the truth and explained my situation. It is just so much easier to lay it on the line.

I feel being completely honest and straightforward helped me get into pharmacy school. I ended up having 3 interview invites out of the four schools that I applied to and was accepted to 2 of them.

I think it would hurt you more if you don't tell the truth!

At the beginning of the PharmCAS app they explicitly ask if you've ever been disciplined for cheating or poor academic performance (they lump people with academic disciplinary actions in the same section with cheating and criminal disclosures which seems a bit harsh). However, they do have it in there so even though you didn't mention it in your personal statement didn't you have to mention it in that first section?

 

[SortingItOut]

Hi guys, I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I graduated from University of Rhode island in 2008 with a B.S. in Biological Sciences and a chem minor, with a cumulative gpa of 3.540 and my science gpa is somewhere around 3.7.

I am also a professional musician (pianist) and rather than going to grad school (which i should have done initially) I have been having fun making a living with gigs. I have realized however that this is not the most stable career path especially in such a small area as Rhode Island.

Here is my major concern as I have had a recent epiphany and decided that I want to apply to pharmacy school. I made the stupid choice of enrolling in an MBA program at Johnson and Wales which was not well planned and thought out. After my uncle's untimely passing the following year, when I was about half way through it, and due to the fact that I had absolutely no interest in the curriculum, I withdrew halfway through the spring semester, taking F's and getting academically dismissed. (pathetic I know)

anyways, I feel that with respect to applying to Pharmacy or any health profession related graduate program, that my performance and record in my undergrad degree exemplifies my aptitude and ability with science. What I am wondering is this:

Do I need to tell them that I did half an MBA when I apply? Or can I only send the transcripts of my successfully completed and pertinent degree? And if i elect to not give them that information about the dismissal, will they see it , find out regardless? I haven't contacted any admissions offices but I'm assuming they will say "give us all transcripts and explain in your personal statement" or something along those lines.

My apologies for the lengthy post but I am extremely grateful for any and all feedback if anyone has a free minute.

Nick

I'm with everyone else that you need to send that transcript in. If the pharmacy school doesn't catch you, someone else could give you away. A lot of pharmacists are going for MBAs. All you need is for someone to recognize you, and your secret is revealed.

I also think that you have the beginnings of a good personal statement based on your original post. Combine your "journey" with why you want to be a pharmacist, and you may have a good essay.

Of course, since this is a recent epiphany, I ask that you really research the pharmacy field. Go to other parts of this board. It's not a walk in the park. I don't want you to go through pharmacy school, get out into this job market, and become frustrated all over again.

If pharmacy school is still right for you, then research schools who often accept non-traditional student. They may be open-minded about your situation.

 

[ucrx]

I understand what you are saying. I just dont see how it even matters and how they would magically know I did half an MBA. It has nothing to do with science and the courses I took for my BioSci degree I did well. I understand you and majority of members of the site are honest and good people and I respect that. I am just curious how they would just know I am leaving something out. I really dont feel bad doing so as I feel that entire MBA experience was a waste of a year of my life.

It isn't just the grades that are important. Pharmacy schools (and most schools, jobs, etc.) look at character, personality, and many other things in deciding who to admit. It helps predict who may succeed and even improve the program. Will you just give up in a class that isn't interesting to you? They also need to consider the qualities important to being a pharmacist. Honesty and good morals are important. You'll be working with medications and can impact peoples' health and lives! Why don't you want to send the transcripts if it is something that is truly something that was out of character and will never happen again? If you decide not to send the transcripts, I can honestly say I hope they find out and that someone honest gets in over you.

I agree with the advice provided by SortingItOut. Make sure pharmacy is for you. You don't want to waste 3-4 years of your life or drop out again after realizing you made a bad decision. There are some schools (like MCP Worcester) in New England that take non-traditional students and will likely be understanding of a situation as long as you prove to them it isn't a true reflection of you. The new schools like St. Joe's in CT, UNE in ME, and WNEC in MA are also probably good options.

Just be honest, explain why you had this uncharacteristic academic period, and show them you won't do it again. Your undergrad record should help demonstrate this. I also think it would be a good idea to provide an explanation with your application even if you don't include it in the personal statement.

 

[Nicholas29]

You guys are awesome thank you for all the responses. I didn't mean to come across as a dishonest scumbag with this thread and definitely won't leave any details out. Have a great week!

 

[velvet75]

At the beginning of the PharmCAS app they explicitly ask if you've ever been disciplined for cheating or poor academic performance (they lump people with academic disciplinary actions in the same section with cheating and criminal disclosures which seems a bit harsh). However, they do have it in there so even though you didn't mention it in your personal statement didn't you have to mention it in that first section?

The schools I applied to didn't require me to apply through PharmCAS. They had their own application process.