Academic INR

[futureSuperStar]

Hi I'm wondering if a career in Interventional neuroradiology is amenable to being in a serious academic position. Would it be acceptable to a department at a large academic institution to hire someone with goals to apply for NIH grants and spend ~75% time doing research. If it is, how common is this?

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[bobjonesbob]

I know someone doing NIR who is only 50% clinical at a top academic institution. This is rare and takes many years to achieve.

 

[NDcienporciento100]

75% research in NIR would be exceptionally rare! Actually, probably impossible. Here is why... CAST criteria wants INR to perform a certain amount of stroke thrombectomy’s every year. I believe the number is 15 a year. I think if you were doing 75% research even in the busiest of stroke centers it would be hard to maintain certification.

 

[futureSuperStar]

Thanks so much for the replies, I really appreciate it. Is 30% reasonable with grant support? Like a day and a half of protected research time per week, on top of a day and a half of clinic with 2 days in the angio suite?

 

[Clean7795]

Why would you want to spend close to a decade of training only to not actually do what you're training for? If you're interested in those conditions you could do research on them as a diagnostic radiologist or neurologist and have the data brought to you by NIR and NSx.

If you just want to spend time doing metaanalyses and research on the efficacy of various techniques, that can be accomplished with 80% clinical.

 

[NDcienporciento100]

Why would you want to spend close to a decade of training only to not actually do what you're training for? If you're interested in those conditions you could do research on them as a diagnostic radiologist or neurologist and have the data brought to you by NIR and NSx.

If you just want to spend time doing metaanalyses and research on the efficacy of various techniques, that can be accomplished with 80% clinical.

It would not give you the level of understanding from the point of you of someone who actually performs those procedures.

 

[guytakingboards]

From my personal experience as a neuro DR guy, it seems like having free time as an NIR is not difficult to get. There's only so many NIR cases (elective and emergent) to go around. Both when I was in training and now as an attending, the NIR guys sat on their asses a lot. You wouldn't necessarily need protected time to get a lot of research done.

 

[sice4]

If the NIR aren't doing as many procedures and are sitting around a lot, then why is NIR known to have such a bad lifestyle?

 

[Neopolymath]

If the NIR aren't doing as many procedures and are sitting around a lot, then why is NIR known to have such a bad lifestyle?

Being on call is still being on call. Being consulted for things you can't help with over and over is still fatiguing I would imagine.

 

[irwarrior]

NeuroIR is much more than doing cases. You get called about a lot of abnormal vascular conditions and have to work out CNS vasculitides, FMD, evaluate small unruptured aneurysms in the clinic as well as intracranial atherosclerosis and follow up of your coiled aneurysms. The more aneurysms that you have treated the more number of cerebral angiograms you will have to do. Our INR do at least a day of clinic a week. Also, there are numerous code strokes that may not be a go based on NISH, comorbid conditions, ASPECT score , family wishes etc. Also, if your neuroIR do spine work they will be busy with kyphoplasty, spinejack, and other pain procedures which will all need clinic follow up. There is plenty of spine intervention and stroke to treat, there is a limited number of intracranial aneurysms per unit population. The call can be onerous due to stroke, but more and more INR are splitting these with the peripheral VIR in the larger groups.

 

[cybermed2424]

NeuroIR is much more than doing cases. You get called about a lot of abnormal vascular conditions and have to work out CNS vasculitides, FMD, evaluate small unruptured aneurysms in the clinic as well as intracranial atherosclerosis and follow up of your coiled aneurysms. The more aneurysms that you have treated the more number of cerebral angiograms you will have to do. Our INR do at least a day of clinic a week. Also, there are numerous code strokes that may not be a go based on NISH, comorbid conditions, ASPECT score , family wishes etc. Also, if your neuroIR do spine work they will be busy with kyphoplasty, spinejack, and other pain procedures which will all need clinic follow up. There is plenty of spine intervention and stroke to treat, there is a limited number of intracranial aneurysms per unit population. The call can be onerous due to stroke, but more and more INR are splitting these with the peripheral VIR in the larger groups.

Sorry to hijack - irwarrior what are the call schedules like that you've seen for INR?

 

[CyrusHabs7695]

is there also a major pay difference between standard IR vs. INR?

 

[irwarrior]

is there also a major pay difference between standard IR vs. INR?

INR has fewer doctors as they have fewer conditions than VIR docs that they treat. ie aneurysms, cerebral avm, MMA embo, tumor embolization etc. However, they are often needed for hospitals to cover stroke call. Given this they are frequently on q2/3 call depending on how many hospitals they end up covering. They may split stroke call with peripheral VIR if they are part of a larger hospital group. INR tend to get paid at a higher rate than peripheral VIR.

 

[ZJz4]

I am interested in Neurointerventional Radiology via the Radiology route. However, I spoke to a NeuroIR trained from Radiology who recommended I do neurology or neurosurgery as the Radiologists trained in this path aren't getting jobs. Just wondering if anyone can share their opinion on the matter.

 

[IRattending2021]

I am interested in Neurointerventional Radiology via the Radiology route. However, I spoke to a NeuroIR trained from Radiology who recommended I do neurology or neurosurgery as the Radiologists trained in this path aren't getting jobs. Just wondering if anyone can share their opinion on the matter.

in general, for the same condition (like PAD or stroke), it’s better to enter further upstream from the referral chain by being a cardiologist, neurologist, or better yet, vascular and neurosurgeon than try to be an IR. It’s the difference of having a guarantee practice in something versus 10% in the case of PAD depends on which job you take.

 

[irwarrior]

I think the strength of neurology is in their stroke and neurocritical training and in neurosurgery is their management of intracranial bleeding and tumors including ventriculostomy and decompressive surgeries. Neuro Interventionalists who go the radiology route should focus more time in Neuro ICU and stroke neurology and improve their neurology exam and knowledge of stroke trials which are the areas that they are weaker in.