Academic Integrity Question

[Choboy]

I was accused of an academic integrity violation by cheating on a test. I contested the charge but was found guilty anyway. I know that this is a negative impact on my record but it was only one time and I believe I have learned from this event. Would this be enough to make me ineligible for DO school or are my chances too low anyway. I have a 3.6 GPA if that helps.

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[DrCalculi]

I was accused of an academic integrity violation by cheating on a test. I contested the charge but was found guilty anyway. I know that this is a negative impact on my record but it was only one time and I believe I have learned from this event. Would this be enough to make me ineligible for DO school or are my chances too low anyway. I have a 3.6 GPA if that helps.

Yes, your chances are nonexistent at any U.S. medical school, whether it's DO or MD. Dishonesty is a deal breaker.

 

[Choboy]

thanks for your help, any chance with the Caribbean med schools or are they out of the question as well

 

[Night Hawk]

thanks for your help, any chance with the Caribbean med schools or are they out of the question as well

They'd love to have your money...

 

[HalfListic]

They'd love to have your money...

+1

But they're an ok last choice for fam practice

 

[Flim Flam Man]

I was accused of an academic integrity violation by cheating on a test. I contested the charge but was found guilty anyway. I know that this is a negative impact on my record but it was only one time and I believe I have learned from this event. Would this be enough to make me ineligible for DO school or are my chances too low anyway. I have a 3.6 GPA if that helps.

that sucks, did you actually cheat? what happened? How long ago was it? If it was freshman year maybe you could convince them that you changed and worked hard the rest of your undergrad, but if it was senior year that would look pretty bad

 

[Flim Flam Man]

Also, I think you'd have to have a pretty outstanding ap to make up for it, like really really strong. Do you have awesome ECs? Great LORs? if your ap is just average there are plenty of other average applicants that didn't get accused of academic dishonesty that they would most likely pick over you. Basically you'd have to have a super good excuse

 

[Flim Flam Man]

thanks for your help, any chance with the Caribbean med schools or are they out of the question as well

I wonder, I think there is another website dedicated to caribbean applications, I can't remember what it is, might be better to google it and ask there

 

[SnowyRox]

You contested it because you were innocent or because you could?

Cheating is stupid.

It will kill your chances of getting in straight from undergrad. Go work for a few years and revisit the topic later.

 

[MedPR]

At first I thought you were all trolling, but now I'm starting to wonder.

Is getting caught cheating seriously a deal breaker for all med schools?

 

[Goro]

You might get an interview, but I think you'd then be rejected outright. Let a few years pass, and take ownership of your transgression.

I was accused of an academic integrity violation by cheating on a test. I contested the charge but was found guilty anyway. I know that this is a negative impact on my record but it was only one time and I believe I have learned from this event. Would this be enough to make me ineligible for DO school or are my chances too low anyway. I have a 3.6 GPA if that helps.

 

[LifeTake2]

At first I thought you were all trolling, but now I'm starting to wonder.

Is getting caught cheating seriously a deal breaker for all med schools?

Yes, there are 20K people that apply and don't get in each year that DIDN'T get caught cheating.

Why would any admissions committee take someone that did?

It is very unlikely a proven cheater will find a school that will take them right out of UG in the US. The carrib schools, especially the 2nd tier possibly but since that is no guarantee you will ever practice it isn't a good option.

If the OP really thinks they can't image not being a Dr, time to get a job, put distance (3-5 years post-grad) and try again in their late 20's and argue they were young & stupid. Even then the odds are crappy, but they might be better than the <3% I'd guess they have today.

 

[MedPR]

Yes, there are 20K people that apply and don't get in each year that DIDN'T get caught cheating.

Why would any admissions committee take someone that did?

It is very unlikely a proven cheater will find a school that will take them right out of UG in the US. The carrib schools, especially the 2nd tier possibly but since that is no guarantee you will ever practice it isn't a good option.

If the OP really thinks they can't image not being a Dr, time to get a job, put distance (3-5 years post-grad) and try again in their late 20's and argue they were young & stupid. Even then the odds are crappy, but they might be better than the <3% I'd guess they have today.

The same reason why they take people who have demonstrated and/or been proven to have character issues.

1. Laziness (low GPA, etc)
2. Misdemeanors
3. Felonies
4. Quitting another profession
5. Failing out of another medical school
6. Failing out of another professional program

For those of you who fall into the category of number 4, I'm not trying to put you down. I'm just saying that it begs the question "If you quit X career, why won't you quit medicine too?" and based on what I've read on SDN, that's one of the things ADCOMs wonder about you.

I get that cheating is serious, I'm not arguing that. I'm just surprised that so many people are essentially saying "You cheated, you'll never be a doctor."

 

[TwinsFan]

The same reason why they take people who have demonstrated and/or been proven to have character issues.

1. Laziness (low GPA, etc)
2. Misdemeanors
3. Felonies
4. Quitting another profession
5. Failing out of another medical school
6. Failing out of another professional program

For those of you who fall into the category of number 4, I'm not trying to put you down. I'm just saying that it begs the question "If you quit X career, why won't you quit medicine too?" and based on what I've read on SDN, that's one of the things ADCOMs wonder about you.

I get that cheating is serious, I'm not arguing that. I'm just surprised that so many people are essentially saying "You cheated, you'll never be a doctor."

You're equating cheating to career changing?

Wow.



Sticking with a career only to discover another is a better fit for your personality/life goals etc. is NOT a character issue.

 

[MedPR]

You're equating cheating to career changing?

Wow.



Sticking with a career only to discover another is a better fit for your personality/life goals etc. is NOT a character issue.

I'm equating one mistake with another mistake. Changing careers may show what you say, or it may show your inability to commit to something and an unwillingness to work at it to make it better. It may also show that you were unhappy with your salary and are going into medicine for the steady high income. Those are character issues that certainly do not make for a good physician. Try to see things from more than one point of view; especially considering ADCOMs are looking for reasons not to let you into their medical school. They're definitely not giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Dharma]

The same reason why they take people who have demonstrated and/or been proven to have character issues.

1. Laziness (low GPA, etc)
2. Misdemeanors
3. Felonies
4. Quitting another profession
5. Failing out of another medical school
6. Failing out of another professional program

For those of you who fall into the category of number 4, I'm not trying to put you down. I'm just saying that it begs the question "If you quit X career, why won't you quit medicine too?" and based on what I've read on SDN, that's one of the things ADCOMs wonder about you.

I get that cheating is serious, I'm not arguing that. I'm just surprised that so many people are essentially saying "You cheated, you'll never be a doctor."

Sorry man, but cheating is a lot worse than a bit of academic laziness. Bad comparison you made there - not even close to being equivalent. Also not too many folks are getting into medical school with felonies either. People can barely find work at the local Home Depot with a felony on their record, forget medical school.

Plenty of people change careers as well. Not sure I've known of any who were said to "quit" their career either. How does an adcom know you won't quit medicine? They don't, but a demonstration of commitment to the path through clinical experience, volunteering, improving academics etc will show an adcom that a career changer is committed and serious about med school. This something that most non-trads have to prove before earning a seat.

There are most definitely a lot more career changers in medical school and working as doctors than there are caught cheaters. Cheating is pretty much a deal breaker. Not to be a dick, but cheating is horrible regardless of circumstance and shows a lack of character... getting caught means your dishonest AND stupid. That's what most would think at least.

This guy's chances of becoming a physician are pretty slim, although it's a worth a try. An honest explanation may go a long ways in the hands of a wordsmith. OP, I say give it a shot, explain yourself honestly without sounding like your still defending yourself too much, and see what happens. Good luck.

 

[Dharma]

If the OP really thinks they can't image not being a Dr, time to get a job, put distance (3-5 years post-grad) and try again in their late 20's and argue they were young & stupid. Even then the odds are crappy, but they might be better than the <3% I'd guess they have today.

This advice is actually the best possible route IMO.

 

[StarlingForce1]

I was accused of an academic integrity violation by cheating on a test. I contested the charge but was found guilty anyway. I know that this is a negative impact on my record but it was only one time and I believe I have learned from this event. Would this be enough to make me ineligible for DO school or are my chances too low anyway. I have a 3.6 GPA if that helps.

What have you learned from this event? The difference between right and wrong? Did you miss that part when you signed an agreement to abide by your university's code of conduct?

The likelihood of getting into a degree granting program, with recorded academic demerit for cheating on an exam, I regret to say, is slim-none. If you must become a physician, put all of your eggs into the Caribbean medical school baskets- they love tuition payments I hear - but you will not be accepted to a US MD or DO program, at least not until you wait a solid number of years, then redo a bachelors (if you can even get into another academic degree granting program at this point) and perform extraordinarily well without any violations of academic integrity.

Cheaters are unwelcome in the world of Academia, and it will be an uphill battle for you, I am afraid.

 

[medfreak1290]

I don't know, but I'm in a similar situation and I'm going for it. I've gotten into SGU but turned it down and now I'm applying for DO. However, I never contested it, so I don't have anything on my transcript or judicial review, etc. I just have one form deeeeeeep within my files that show a grade change from a B to a B-. I have a 3.7 GPA. I think you should be okay. Just don't sound too cocky, and show that you can commit to integrity for the future, and that you learned from the mistake. And seriously, people know that it is tough to get a great GPA cheating your way through college, so in the end, be honest about it, and show that you have moved past it in a learning manner, and you'll be okay. But cockiness can kill it all, so be careful.

 

[TwinsFan]

I'm equating one mistake with another mistake. Changing careers may show what you say, or it may show your inability to commit to something and an unwillingness to work at it to make it better. It may also show that you were unhappy with your salary and are going into medicine for the steady high income. Those are character issues that certainly do not make for a good physician. Try to see things from more than one point of view; especially considering ADCOMs are looking for reasons not to let you into their medical school. They're definitely not giving everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Changing careers is not a mistake.

I wouldn't trade my previous career for becoming an attending several years sooner. What I have learned becoming a great engineer is part of what will make my a great physician. I am sure some others feel the same about there previous careers as well.


On a side note, for people who didn't have previous careers beyond academics (major changers, straight to 2nd bachelors etc.) I can see a bit more skepticism with commitment to medicine. This shows more of a "lack of commitment" since they didn't follow through with their training or never actually used it in the real world. Even in these cases comparing that to a felony or cheating is silly.

 

[StarlingForce1]

Changing careers is not a mistake.

I wouldn't trade my previous career for becoming an attending several years sooner. What I have learned becoming a great engineer is part of what will make my a great physician. I am sure some others feel the same about there previous careers as well.


On a side note, for people who didn't have previous careers beyond academics (major changers, straight to 2nd bachelors etc.) I can see a bit more skepticism with commitment to medicine. This shows more of a "lack of commitment" since they didn't follow through with their training or never actually used it in the real world. Even in these cases comparing that to a felony or cheating is silly.

Agreed, on all points. What field of engineering?

 

[TwinsFan]

Automotive (M.E.)

 

[littlefield2]

It is well established fact that no U.S. medical school will accept people with disciplinary notation.

The mark is permanent on your undergraduate transcript. It is doubtful that you will be admitted in the U.S. anytime in the near future.

The GOOD thing is NOBODY will ask to see your undergraduate transcript after you finish medical school.

The second good thing about it is you WILL find a Caribbean school to accept you NOW.

Therefore, do yourself a big favor, go to the Caribbean, study, and you WILL find a residency of your fancy in the U.S.

NOBODY will EVER, EVER find out what happened. U.S. medical schools do not communicate with Caribbean schools and vice versa.

This is a proven method to QUICKLY erase your past and secure yourself a great future. Another BIG plus is you will receive the highly prestigious M.D. degree. 👍

(Always try the Big Four Schools first. Guaranteed rotations and Stellar matching record.)

 

[StarlingForce1]

It is well established fact that no U.S. medical school will accept people with disciplinary notation.

The mark is permanent on your undergraduate transcript. It is doubtful that you will be admitted in the U.S. anytime in the near future.

The GOOD thing is NOBODY will ask to see your undergraduate transcript after you finish medical school.

The second good thing about it is you WILL find a Caribbean school to accept you NOW.

Therefore, do yourself a big favor, go to the Caribbean, study, and you WILL find a residency of your fancy in the U.S.

NOBODY will EVER, EVER find out what happened. U.S. medical schools do not communicate with Caribbean schools and vice versa.

This is a proven method to QUICKLY erase your past and secure yourself a great future. Another BIG plus is you will receive the highly prestigious M.D. degree. 👍

(Always try the Big Four Schools first. Guaranteed rotations and Stellar matching record.)

Please define stellar, like, give examples of hospitals?

 

[drgioiadds]

Changing careers is not a mistake.

I wouldn't trade my previous career for becoming an attending several years sooner. What I have learned becoming a great engineer is part of what will make my a great physician. I am sure some others feel the same about there previous careers as well.


On a side note, for people who didn't have previous careers beyond academics (major changers, straight to 2nd bachelors etc.) I can see a bit more skepticism with commitment to medicine. This shows more of a "lack of commitment" since they didn't follow through with their training or never actually used it in the real world. Even in these cases comparing that to a felony or cheating is silly.

+1 I also don't think my first career was a mistake. If anything it opened my eyes to other aspects of healthcare I was interested in---leading to the career change.

 

[Night Hawk]

please define stellar, like, give examples of hospitals?

+1

 

[Night Hawk]

It is well established fact that no U.S. medical school will accept people with disciplinary notation.

The mark is permanent on your undergraduate transcript. It is doubtful that you will be admitted in the U.S. anytime in the near future.

The GOOD thing is NOBODY will ask to see your undergraduate transcript after you finish medical school.

The second good thing about it is you WILL find a Caribbean school to accept you NOW.

Therefore, do yourself a big favor, go to the Caribbean, study, and you WILL find a residency of your fancy in the U.S.

NOBODY will EVER, EVER find out what happened. U.S. medical schools do not communicate with Caribbean schools and vice versa.

This is a proven method to QUICKLY erase your past and secure yourself a great future. Another BIG plus is you will receive the highly prestigious M.D. degree. 👍

(Always try the Big Four Schools first. Guaranteed rotations and Stellar matching record.)

A) You certainly won't get what you fancy....B) D.O. = M.D. >>>FMG M.D. just sayin'

 

[StarlingForce1]

A) You certainly won't get what you fancy....B) D.O. = M.D. >>>FMG M.D. just sayin'

The FMG really depends. If someone has an MBBS from Oxford, or an MD,CM from McGill, or an MD from Cambridge, or an MD from Australian National University - no residency director in their right mind will question the standard you have had to meet in your studies - these schools are among the top medical universities in the world, as per Times Higher Education.

 

[Night Hawk]

The FMG really depends. If someone has an MBBS from Oxford, or an MD,CM from McGill, or an MD from Cambridge, or an MD from Australian National University - no residency director in their right mind will question the standard you have had to meet in your studies - these schools are among the top medical universities in the world, as per Times Higher Education.

Although I whole-heartedly agree, I don't know that those fall in the realm of the "big four" as refered to by the previous poster. If someone wasn't accepted to an M.D./D.O. school in the states for violations of academic integrity, then the prestigious shools you mentioned above would likely look upon his application with even more skepticism...

 

[StarlingForce1]

Although I whole-heartedly agree, I don't know that those fall in the realm of the "big four" as refered to by the previous poster. If someone wasn't accepted to an M.D./D.O. school in the states for violations of academic integrity, then the prestigious shools you mentioned above would likely look upon his application with even more skepticism...

Good point. You know what I love? Being a citizen of the U.K. You know what else I love? Clout at UK schools for being a UK citizen. Totally applying to KCL, Oxford, and Cambridge 🙂

 

[LifeTake2]

It is well established fact that no U.S. medical school will accept people with disciplinary notation.

The mark is permanent on your undergraduate transcript. It is doubtful that you will be admitted in the U.S. anytime in the near future.

The GOOD thing is NOBODY will ask to see your undergraduate transcript after you finish medical school.

The second good thing about it is you WILL find a Caribbean school to accept you NOW.

Therefore, do yourself a big favor, go to the Caribbean, study, and you WILL find a residency of your fancy in the U.S.

NOBODY will EVER, EVER find out what happened. U.S. medical schools do not communicate with Caribbean schools and vice versa.

This is a proven method to QUICKLY erase your past and secure yourself a great future. Another BIG plus is you will receive the highly prestigious M.D. degree. 👍

(Always try the Big Four Schools first. Guaranteed rotations and Stellar matching record.)

No doubt a troll but I can't help replying:

What logic do you use to argue that if cheating is a 100% no-no in the US, but perfectly fine in the Caribbean that there is not a difference in quality? There is a reason why they take candidates nobody else will.

Yes, there are Caribbean graduates that find residencies, even some that find ones they like. There are also ones that do well, score well and still end up working for an EMR company because they couldn't match and now have a MD, $$$ in debt and can't even prescribe penicillin.

 

[SLC]

One of the faculty members at my school asks everyone he interviews if they've cheated in school. If they say no they'd better be prepared to prove it somehow, cause he's convinced (as am I) that everyone does it a little at some point.

His take is that if you can't admit to something as innocuous as asking a friend for the answer to a homework question (when you were supposed to work on your own) then how can you be trusted to be honest when you accidentally hurt someone as a physician? And if you cant even realize when you are cheating then that's a problem too. Let's face it, we're all goig to make mistakes as doctors, can we own up to them and admit fault or will we try to deny wrongdoing and push the blame on someone else? Or worse, will we fail to see that we did anything wrong in the first place?

This faculty member (a young, but retired general surgeon) tells us he was never sued. He feels that the main reason is the when he made mistakes, he owned them, explained to the patient how they happened, and apologized.

That's a long winded way of outlining the problem with cheating, especially cheating and denying. It undermines your integrity, something of critical importance for a physician. No school wants someone like that on their alumni roster.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I like gutsy and brutally honest professors.

 

[nicolemsm]

One of the faculty members at my school asks everyone he interviews if they've cheated in school. If they say no they'd better be prepared to prove it somehow, cause he's convinced (as am I) that everyone does it a little at some point.

His take is that if you can't admit to something as innocuous as asking a friend for the answer to a homework question (when you were supposed to work on your own) then how can you be trusted to be honest when you accidentally hurt someone as a physician? And if you cant even realize when you are cheating then that's a problem too. Let's face it, we're all goig to make mistakes as doctors, can we own up to them and admit fault or will we try to deny wrongdoing and push the blame on someone else? Or worse, will we fail to see that we did anything wrong in the first place?

This faculty member (a young, but retired general surgeon) tells us he was never sued. He feels that the main reason is the when he made mistakes, he owned them, explained to the patient how they happened, and apologized.

That's a long winded way of outlining the problem with cheating, especially cheating and denying. It undermines your integrity, something of critical importance for a physician. No school wants someone like that on their alumni roster.

👍

Sounds like a reputable guy!