Academic Integrity Violation on Transcript - Can I still get a residency?

[InvisibleCactus]

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I am a P3 student and was found cheating on a closed book exam. I admitted and took full responsibility for the charges. My professor sanctioned a permanent notation on my official transcript. If I appeal, I have the possibility of getting it off my transcript but risk losing scholarships and my leadership positions in the college.

I am wondering what the chances are to get a PGY1 with the notation on my transcript?

 

[lord999]

You're done for any residencies that do the full background investigation (government) considering how late this is. You've put yourself on the marginal candidate side for most academic ones.

I'm surprised you don't lose the leadership or scholarships anyway as this is an academic integrity issue. Guess times change.

 

[InvisibleCactus]

If I appeal and et it off my transcript, would chances be just as slim?

 

[lord999]

If I appeal and et it off my transcript, would chances be just as slim?

If the site doesn't bother to follow up with references, I guess your chances improve. But what does it say about the site?

And the appeal succeeding is a Spartan if.

 

[Dr Wario]

If I appeal and et it off my transcript, would chances be just as slim?

I am confused, if you admitted it how exactly would you have a chance of getting an appeal? Was your confession obtained under duress?

 

[InvisibleCactus]

I do not want to appeal that I did not commit academic integrity, just the severity of the repercussions. I can appeal to get the violation removed from my transcripts and am trying to determine if it is worth it.

 

[ValeRx]

trying to determine if it is worth it.

Why wouldn't it be worth it? Try to get it removed... and if you appeal and it is denied, what are consequences of that? Rather if you do not appeal and it just stays there forever..?

 

[297point1]

Buddy, your time to negotiate the sanctions was before you "admitted it and took full responsibility for the charges". You had more leverage than you thought- (most) faculty are more than willing to play *if this, then that* when it comes to getting students with academic violations to agree not to contest the charges. Faculty don't got time for dealing with appeals and the multiple stops on the way up the chain of command or dealing with ethics or conduct boards, and few enjoy it (though there is the occasional sadist).

I am more than willing to cut a reasonable deal with someone who has a conduct violation. I don't want to be the one to go on trial, which was is what happened when I brought a pair of cases to a hearing years ago. I learned then that I should be in full Monty Hall Let's Make a Deal mode. Fewer headaches...and first time offenders are generally pleased they aren't getting expelled.

 

[InvisibleCactus]

Why wouldn't it be worth it? Try to get it removed... and if you appeal and it is denied, what are consequences of that? Rather if you do not appeal and it just stays there forever..?

The consequences are if the appeal is denied, I could potentially be removed from my leadership positions and other consequences added on top of the original.

 

[BenJammin]

You have no leverage. What is there to appeal? You did it and it will stay on your transcript forever. I hate to say this but you're definitely not getting a residency.

 

[BC_89]

The consequences are if the appeal is denied, I could potentially be removed from my leadership positions and other consequences added on top of the original.

I carry no weight on this but more curious on what I have gathered so far:

1) You admitted to cheating and took full responsibility of the charges
2) You do not want to appeal the academic integrity, just the severity of the repercussions (FWIW I had no idea anyone could do this)
3) Should you appeal, you risk potentially being removed from current leadership positions and "other consequences added on top of the original"

What good are the leadership positions if you have a black mark on your transcript? No amount of extra-curriculars / leadership roles will make up for it so if there really is something to appeal you have nothing to lose. Also, how exactly do you appeal the repercussions (consequences) but not the action (cheating)? Most programs would expel you on the spot for breaking the academic honor code. Correct me if I am missing something, but the ability to appeal a specific outcome is simply "granting the appeal" or "denying the appeal." What potential other consequences could be added on top of submitting an appeal? They could have kicked you out of school, taken away all scholarships, and removed you from leadership positions at this point but they didn't.

I feel like I am missing something or maybe I am out of touch of what constitutes an appeal and what doesn't (i.e. appeal the grounds of a specific chosen consequence but not the action leading up to it).

 

[deleted480308]

What exactly do you think “full responsibility” means if not having the school record you were cheating?

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Speaking from the residency applicant screening side of the table, and assuming you apply to no-name programs far, far away, no-one will notice forfeited leadership or scholarship positions during your P3 year. Most rubrics don't score 4 years of leadership more than 1 year. Little will even notice your scholarships.

Your biggest gamble, should you still apply, is who will write your LOR? Hospital pharmacy is small world- are you certain your preceptors don't know your history and won't allude to it on your letter?

 

[M0df]

Maybe OP knows someone whose punishment was even less severe than his? I fail to see how that could be possible though. I think you came out of it in decent shape. The downside of reopening the case seems to be far greater than the upside.

 

[deleted562805]

Speaking from the residency applicant screening side of the table, and assuming you apply to no-name programs far, far away, no-one will notice forfeited leadership or scholarship positions during your P3 year. Most rubrics don't score 4 years of leadership more than 1 year. Little will even notice your scholarships.

Your biggest gamble, should you still apply, is who will write your LOR? Hospital pharmacy is small world- are you certain your preceptors don't know your history and won't allude to it on your letter?

I second this. Your preceptors who are affiliate faculty of your school and who probably teach therapeutics in your P3 year will know about your academic cheating and if they don’t like you, will spread the word to other preceptors non affiliate with the school and even other health care professionals. Notice I am talking about your clinical rotations. Your community preceptor is not going to care as you are more or less free labor.

So you better make straight A’s in your clinical and hospital rotations in P4 year so that they can avoid writing about the academic issue.

Did you cheat on your therapeutics course? If so, that’s red flag to all residencies if it is on your transcript.

If I were you, I create a plan B or Plan C if you do not match to residency because if cheating is on your academic record and it is therapeutics course, then your chances of getting residency are unfortunately zero for any government or top academic residencies. You might have a marginal chance on rural residencies or new residencies programs. Do you have a work experience in retail, if you don’t. I would start applying to intern jobs ASAP.

 

[mentos]

I mean, do you even want a residency? My coworker did a residency and was unemployed for a year before her friend got her into the LTC where we work. You don't need a residency to work here btw, so she basically wasted two years.

 

[rxkrafted]

Try to get it off your transcript. why would you even contemplate risking your scholarship and leadership positions vs a permanent red flag on your transcript with a year left in your program if you're trying to do residency??

if you were caught cheating this time, how many times did you actually cheat in the past? how are your grades? if your grades aren't up to par, it might not even be worth all the hassle.

 

[deleted562805]

Try to get it off your transcript. why would you even contemplate risking your scholarship and leadership positions vs a permanent red flag on your transcript with a year left in your program if you're trying to do residency??

if you were caught cheating this time, how many times did you actually cheat in the past? how are your grades? if your grades aren't up to par, it might not even be worth all the hassle.

I agree. I would appeal to the Academic committee in your school, which includes clinical faculty affiliate with the school, who could potentially be your preceptors in your fourth year, Associate Dean, and one or two professors from your P2 and P1 years. It better be a strong letter for an appeal.

If the committee rejects the appeal, then you need to plead your case with the Dean of your Pharmacy school. And your letter to the Dean better be a strong letter for an appeal.

Forget about the leadership positions and scholarships. Get the cheating record removed from transcript and in your P4 year do some clinical research with a non affiliate faculty in a clinical rotation before Mid Year to at least help your chances for a residency and try to get three clinical rotations in the same hospital. Those things I mentioned should help you get a residency or even a job in a hospital, only if you exceed expectations and ace your rotations.

FYI, you really need to work really hard from hear on out and in your clinical rotations. Go above and beyond in those rotations to at least minimize this cheating history. In addition, you also seriously need to look for a intern job in retail so that if you don’t get matched in residency, you at the very least will have a pharmacy job after graduation. This is a suggestion if you don’t have work experience as of now. It is not too late if you have not started.

Do not wait till P4 year to look for intern jobs in retail

 

[confettiflyer]

Lots of good advice above that I won’t duplicate. But I am in agreement that a large tertiary institution residency with academic ties may be off the table.

Consider your P4 clinical rotation selections and try to select smaller/far away institutions that have fledgling/small (1-2 residents) residency programs.

I know I would weigh outstanding personality and 6 weeks of stellar rotation performance much higher than one incident of academic dishonesty. It doesn’t even sound like they automatically failed you/held you back.

This solves the LOR issue as I also agree an academic one is likely not a good avenue to pursue.

Spoiler alert: pharmacists are expected to look up everything they don’t know. The better pharmacists will even revisit the literature/guidelines they know by heart. Doesn’t excuse what the OP did, but I haven’t had a closed book exam since BCPS ~8yrs ago.

I’d rather have a scrappy/gritty pharmacist with a single black mark on a transcript vs some pretty boy straight A student who talks down to my technicians.

 

[wazoodog]

I’d rather have a scrappy/gritty pharmacist with a single black mark on a transcript vs some pretty bo

I'm all for scrappiness and grittiness, but I think the issue here is less about those qualities and more about a future HCP's attitude and commitment to carry out responsibilities with honesty and integrity when under pressure. As a pharmacist, there will be plenty of opportunities to be dishonest and there will be times of stress...and choosing the easy way out has the potential for serious consequences.

I think thats the roadblock the OP would have to show a very convincing case of remediation of, but its pretty difficult being that it's seen as such a fundamental value. Hands down, better to try getting it removed from your transcript and accept any loss of leadership positions as personal consequence (think of it as atonement).

FWIW, I believe that someone can commit to honesty and integrity after this kind of incident and consequences faced. Its still not the best first impression because people wonder if the cheating would have continued if you were never caught. Hopefully you can get the penalty reduced and your professors will keep it under wraps.

 

[confettiflyer]

I'm all for scrappiness and grittiness, but I think the issue here is less about those qualities and more about a future HCP's attitude and commitment to carry out responsibilities with honesty and integrity when under pressure. As a pharmacist, there will be plenty of opportunities to be dishonest and there will be times of stress...and choosing the easy way out has the potential for serious consequences.

And this is a very fair point to make, and I can’t stress enough the importance of having a just/open culture at an institution to mitigate these opportunities and incidents.

But this is also why I would want to see for myself over a six week window, and even as a resident we are only committed to that person for one year. Ultimate trial opportunity, but I also believe in second chances.