Academic Internship Vs. Private Practice equivalent

[micro555]

Hi there folks,

I've been researching several residency programs and run across ambiguous sentences like this for residency pre-requisites:

“Veterinarians who complete internships or who have equivalent experience years in private-practice experience are eligible to apply for residency programs."

• How many years of general practice is considered equivalent to one year of academic internship? 1 for 1? 1 for 4?
• Maybe the "equivalency number" depends on the residency that someone applies for (i.e. surgery vs. dermatology vs. IM vs. path vs nutrition)? Or perhaps, it isn't "required" on paper to do an academic internship, but you are much more competitive having completed one?
• Do you all think there is a rule of thumb, or is it basically each residency makes up its own rules on "XX years of private practice = 1 year academic internship"?
• Why do an internship if you could do one year in private practice with better hours, and better pay and qualify for the same residency position just the same?

Forgive me if I've posted in the wrong location.

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[JaynaAli]

Generally accepted numbers are that “equivalent experience” is 3-5 years of practice compared to a single year of internship. Even if some programs advertise they will accept someone who hasn’t done an internship, in my experience it’s much more common for people to have done one or more internships and it’s uncommon for someone without an internship to be selected. Sometimes people even practice a while and then go back and do an internship for a foot into the door. It can be hard to maintain relationships with specialists once you graduate and leave academia for private practice.

Edit: this is for private GP experience. Most places done care as much if your internship is private or academic. Academic residencies may have a slight preference for academic internship people but in general private practice rotating internship programs in specialty hospitals are one for one with academic internships.

 

[SocialStigma]

For most residencies, it would likely be a minimum of 3 years in GP. It would be highly unusual for someone to be accepted to a residency after just 1 year in practice. There are also many specialty fields that will not accept a candidate that hasn't completed at least a rotating internship, even if they have 5+ years in GP. I've never heard of anyone in the past 5-10 years who was accepted into a surgery residency program with only GP experience under their belt.

 

[micro555]

Wow, yes, I suppose for more competitive residencies that is definitely the case (i.e. surgery). What about less competitive ones (i.e. internal medicine or nutrition)?

 

[CalliopeDVM]

It will vary for each specialty, and they likely have that specific information on their websites.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

• Why do an internship if you could do one year in private practice with better hours, and better pay and qualify for the same residency position just the same?

If that were true, then yes, some people would go into general practice for a few years then apply for residencies. The problem is your premise is not true. For many residences, you will not be competitive if you don't have a rotating internship.

Also realize private practice is not the same as general practice. These days the majority of internships are at private practices.

Regarding the term "internship or equivalent experience" there is no universally agreed upon definition of "equivalent". It will depend on the program. It's really just a legal way for the program to say they might accept someone with experience other than a rotating internship.

If you feel comfortable sharing which type of residencies you are interested in we might be able to offer more specific opinions.

 

[PippyPony]

We have multiple faculty who did not do an internship before being accepted into residency programs. Average GP experience seems to be about 4-5 years to equal one year of a rotating internship.

This field continues to change and evolve as a whole -- my advice is to figure out what is important to you at a point in time and don't let traditional paths dictate what you can/can't do. Build a network, talk to people in the field you're interested in to see what that specific field requires, and don't be afraid to blaze your own trail.

 

[PippyPony]

• Why do an internship if you could do one year in private practice with better hours, and better pay and qualify for the same residency position just the same?

This is a good question, though.

My feeling about it is two-fold:

First, people typically see established paths as "safer" options and it's easier to follow a well-worn road than to do something unusual (not saying "easy" is a bad thing, btw). Second, an internship condenses multiple years of learning into one year while you build valuable relationships at the same time, so it's a fast track to the end goal of residency --> specialization --> better salary and quality of life.

I believe in previous surveys/studies, people come out in a financially similar place at some point, but then in the end, specialists have a higher ceiling. So an internship + residency may be crappy pay for the time you're there, but if you can hit that end goal in 5 years instead of 10, it's probably a better long term earning strategy. Of course, that's if you can afford to work for peanuts for 4-5 years right out of school, which not everyone can these days. On the other hand, it's not just about money, and an internship can offer things that other routes cannot (huge case volume --> more intense learning + growth being one of them).

The downside to taking a non-traditional path (in any setting, not just this) is that you always have to be prepared for what happens if you shoot your shot & it doesn't work out. Would you be happy remaining in GP, or do you just want to cut things for a living? That's the kind of thing to ask yourself.

 

[Minnerbelle]

There are certain types of specialties where experience as a gp can be helpful and have a number of specialists who started out in gp. Typically fields where they really gravitated towards certain aspects of gp and realized an unmet need. Behavior, dentistry, nutrition. Those types of things. And there are exceptions here and there for other more narrow pathed specialties. You really should network prior and find out what’s feasible with the specialty you’re considering.

But honestly, unless you want to do GP, don’t do it in lieu of an internship if your goal is to specialize. Not everyone was meant to be a GP, and it can be miserable at times even for those who love it. Sure, salaries are high right now so it might be tempting to not do the 1 year of cheap internship when you can earn 100-150k in that same year. But typically it’s not like 1 year of gp equates to 1 year of internship. There are some specialties that don’t consider gp experience equivalent to internship no matter how many years you have (I mean, it’s fundamentally different. They’re not wrong about that), and it can be a major handicap. Even for some specialties that don’t mind it, you’re usually talking 3-5 years of experience. That does NOT mean that 1 year of internship gives you the same knowledge/experience as 3-5 years in gp, which a lot of misguided interns/vet students confuse often. But 3-5 years doing something you don’t even want to do is brutal. And I don’t know where people are in their lives, but assuming traditional aged students or thereabouts who may have an interest in starting a family... you do want to think hard about how that fits with your career ambitions. It gets much harder once you have children or are actively trying to then go into a training program with minimal pay. And unfortunately, the biological clock is a real thing. You also don’t have forever to wait for the “right time,” if you are putting it off until you’ve reached your terminal career. In which case, it might really make sense to just take that first year hit in salary and move forward. You are much more likely to be able to absorb that your first year out than years later.

 

[Trilt]

We have multiple faculty who did not do an internship before being accepted into residency programs. Average GP experience seems to be about 4-5 years to equal one year of a rotating internship.

This field continues to change and evolve as a whole -- my advice is to figure out what is important to you at a point in time and don't let traditional paths dictate what you can/can't do. Build a network, talk to people in the field you're interested in to see what that specific field requires, and don't be afraid to blaze your own trail.

I'm interested to hear what fields your faculty are in and if they did their residencies recently or in the past?

With multiple internships or internship+ specialty internships prior to lots of residency positions seeming to be becoming more the norm, I feel like "equivalent experience" is less and less of a real thing.

 

[PippyPony]

if they did their residencies recently or in the past?

Within the last 10 years.

I agree that there seems to be an overall rising trend towards secondary specialty internships, particularly in very competitive fields like surgery and cardiology.

 

[allygator13]

I'm interested to hear what fields your faculty are in and if they did their residencies recently or in the past?

With multiple internships or internship+ specialty internships prior to lots of residency positions seeming to be becoming more the norm, I feel like "equivalent experience" is less and less of a real thing.

Agreed.