ECC residency PP vs Academic

[Vet593]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I have talked to some people about it, but I don't think I have heard enough opinions.
I am interested in pursuing an ECC residency. I will be doing my rotating internship this year in a PP (finances and location were big for me). Now, when it comes to residency, I am constantly debating about what route to take. Although I know I will be applying for both, I would like to know your thoughts about raking PP or Academic higher. I know, for example, that I would also be having teaching roles as a resident in an academic environment, however, I don't know when it comes to the learning experience and real-life situations, if an academic environment is better than PP.
I heard a surgery resident once that she thought that in Academia, since it's lower paced, it prepares you well for concepts but when it comes to hands-on experience maybe PP provided more opportunities (she still though it was great but was talking about the pros of each one). I think I understand that being true for internships, but is it like that for residency as well? Considering not as many places offer residencies (compared to internships), I really need to think about what I will be doing next. Additionally, since I am not the person that would simply go anywhere, I have limited placed where I would actually like to apply and I have this huge debate going on in my head.
Also, I don't know how "well" I'll be considered for Academia if I decided to do my internship at a PP.
Well. If you have helpful advice or just thoughts, feel free! 🙂

 

[battie]

@cdo96 is finishing her ECC residency this year

 

[JaynaAli]

I did a residency in a different specialty and my specialty only really has academic residencies, but imo as a former resident, program fit and who your mentors/coresidents will be is not considered enough. Being in a place where you don’t get along with your coworkers or you have trouble with staff and even mentors/faculty makes an already difficult residency even more difficult. I know I barely have any thought to who I’d be working with/under when applying and I should have considered that more. And I know no one starts residency thinking they won’t get along with people and places will hide their red flags to applicants, but there’s often smoke to signal a hidden fire. So much of residency is self direct learning or trial by fire, but being around people who aren’t getting along (even if you’re not the one involved in drama or if you are!) makes it even harder. I’ll let CDO and others chime in more about ecc specifically, but most likely there’s pros and cons to each. PP probably does have a bigger caseload and more opportunities, but academia may have more dedicated rounds and discussion/learning time which is equally important because of a board exam. In the end you’ll be fine in either so pick what seems like the better fit.

 

[Vet593]

I did a residency in a different specialty and my specialty only really has academic residencies, but imo as a former resident, program fit and who your mentors/coresidents will be is not considered enough. Being in a place where you don’t get along with your coworkers or you have trouble with staff and even mentors/faculty makes an already difficult residency even more difficult. I know I barely have any thought to who I’d be working with/under when applying and I should have considered that more. And I know no one starts residency thinking they won’t get along with people and places will hide their red flags to applicants, but there’s often smoke to signal a hidden fire. So much of residency is self direct learning or trial by fire, but being around people who aren’t getting along (even if you’re not the one involved in drama or if you are!) makes it even harder. I’ll let CDO and others chime in more about ecc specifically, but most likely there’s pros and cons to each. PP probably does have a bigger caseload and more opportunities, but academia may have more dedicated rounds and discussion/learning time which is equally important because of a board exam. In the end you’ll be fine in either so pick what seems like the better fit.

Thank you for your input, though. Food for thought for sure.

 

[SkiOtter]

@TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo @MOOSEygoosey as well for ecc input

 

[cdo96]

I am very tired and will write a more detailed and helpful response later, but one thing I needed to point out

since I am not the person that would simply go anywhere, I have limited placed where I would actually like to apply

It’s okay to be picky and to want to go specific places but it’s also important to be realistic. I think last year in the US and Canada there were 32 ECC residencies taking first years, taking anywhere from 1-3 new residents. So best case scenario, we’re talking through all of North America there were less than a hundred spots for first year ECC residents. That includes the in house interns, the ER doctors who decided into residency.

You need to think hard about if you want a residency or if you’re willing to not match and do 🤷🏻‍♀️ on the hope that you’ll get a residency at a place you would actually like. My best friend matched into her 9th choice hospital this year because that’s what was available.

 

[Vet593]

I am very tired and will write a more detailed and helpful response later, but one thing I needed to point out

It’s okay to be picky and to want to go specific places but it’s also important to be realistic. I think last year in the US and Canada there were 32 ECC residencies taking first years, taking anywhere from 1-3 new residents. So best case scenario, we’re talking through all of North America there were less than a hundred spots for first year ECC residents. That includes the in house interns, the ER doctors who decided into residency.

You need to think hard about if you want a residency or if you’re willing to not match and do 🤷🏻‍♀️ on the hope that you’ll get a residency at a place you would actually like. My best friend matched into her 9th choice hospital this year because that’s what was available.

Thank you so much. So far, I have like 10 places in my head within the states I am willing to go. I need to do more investigation about different programs for sure (and keeping an open mind), but the way different states treat women is a big factor for me (but not the most important which is why I am including a couple programs in states that still make me roll my eyes). But also, I know I would apply to both residencies and ECC internships (which I know there are only a few), to increase my chances of matching. I think I am more troubled and conflicted about what to rank first within those options -PP vs Academia- for the things mentioned above. Thank you for your input, I know getting into residency is getting harder each year. And please, any additional thoughts will be greatly appreciated (No rush, I can't imagine how busy you are).

 

[vwo]

Hope it's ok that I tag along on this thread, since I have the same question.

I'm currently a 3rd year student, also interested in pursuing an ECC residency, with a similar internal debate going on (PP vs. academia, internship and residency-wise). One of my mentors did her residency at Cornell and is very pro-academic. She's strongly encouraging me to go the academic route as well. I'm not going to be overly picky- I can see myself ranking at least 15 of the ~32 programs, obviously will need to get in touch with residents and visit some of these hospitals, but it's knowing what type of program fits with my goals that I'm struggling with (i.e. will academic or PP programs rise to the top of my list).

One important thing to note is that my vet school doesn't have a teaching hospital, so I'm missing out on the academic experience during my clinical year. I'll have a 2-week imaging rotation at a different school's teaching hospital, 3x 2-week PP ECC rotations, and a 2-week PP surgery rotation. That will be the limit of my 4th year specialty rotations (luckily all are before the match). I wanted an IM rotation, but didn't manage to get one as options are very limited at my school. I tried to organize externships at multiple different teaching hospitals, but nothing was available.

I'm sure that my internship will be pretty instrumental in influencing this decision for residency rankings, but I'm wondering if anyone has advice in general or for my internship based on the following:

Academic programs that (seemingly to me) are strong in ECC like Davis, Penn, CSU, NCSU, Cornell, UFL, Tufts appeal to me because I feel like I would be learning from "the best" at hospitals seeing the most complex cases where they are "doing the most" - but please tell me if that's naive, very open to hearing about whether this is as big of a deal in real life as it is in my mind. I'm also quite ambitious and feel motivated to participate in research (potentially throughout my entire career), I really enjoy teaching, and I think it would be really cool to contribute to textbook chapters, consensus statements/guidelines/etc. in the future, so these factors also make me lean towards academic programs.

On the other hand, I have a partner who will be coming with me to wherever I go, and his quality of life will be affected by the location, my salary, and the hours that I'll be working, and it seems as though some PP programs might be better in those aspects. I also think I can probably accomplish some of my research +/- teaching goals at some of the private practice internships/residencies like AVECCC, Red Bank, VSH Sorrento Valley, Angell, AMC (although struggling to justify the last 2 considering the pay and COL), maybe Ocean State or BP Tampa...

Curious to know if anyone has advice. Since I don't have any experience in a teaching hospital, should I aim to have at least one academic post-graduate experience? Also, I'm wondering if ECC-focused internships like at AVECCC would be a good choice (vs. true rotating internship), considering I won't have much experience in any other specialties in 4th year. Considering some of the goals I'm interested in, would a PP residency be limiting? Is a PP internship with a strong track record of matching to residencies any worse than an academic internship, if I wanted to match to an academic residency?

Thanks in advance to anyone who's able to answer some of my questions. Definitely feeling an internal struggle here!

Also, @Vet593 , where did you end up?