Accelerated program-Opinions please

[mjl]

Hey everyone, i posted this in the pre-opt section and havent gotten much of a response so I was hoping that putting it here would get it more replys. PCO is starting something called the scholars program this coming year which is essentially an accelerated OD program offered to those who they deem to be academically eligable. Ive been told that both the clinical and didactic experience in the program is equivalent to that of the normal program, it just seems that the didactic portion is sped up (10 week quarter, 1 week finals, 1 week break, repeat. no summer break or anything). Originally they were saying the total tuition would be the same for this program, just spread out over three years instead of four, but now they have changed it to say that there will be a renewable scholarship available to those participating equal to 25% of tuition. Originally I was content to just do the 4 year since im pretty young and wasnt in any rush to get through school, but now that they have added this scholarship im really on the fence. My main concerns are:

-How this program could potentially influence my employability. For any current OD's reading this, if you were hiring a new OD, would someone coming out of a brand new program like this be seen as a positive or a negative?

-The potential rigor of such a program. I know school over 4 years is challenging enough already, how would attempting it over 3 be?

-The fact that this is the first time they are doing it so my class would essentially be the guinea pigs

I would really appreciate anyones opinions or thoughts on this, Thank you!

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[q1we3]

if the number of patients seen is the same as someone who spent 4 years and no courses were skipped, which I doubt, then you might want to consider it since it is also cheaper. But, can you handle it?

 

[mjl]

They say that the clinical and didactic experience is equivalent. and yea the can i handle it question is one of the things im struggling with haha

 

[Commando303]

I'd say, no matter how bright you are, there's only so much that can be crammed into a given frame of time. I believe three years to complete an optometry program would be inadequate, and that to pay the same amount you would to complete it in four, would be unjustified.

 

[mjl]

I'd say, no matter how bright you are, there's only so much that can be crammed into a given frame of time. I believe three years to complete an optometry program would be inadequate, and that to pay the same amount you would to complete it in four, would be unjustified.

It is actually cheaper than the 4 year program, which is really the main draw for me. But I agree, it does seem like a lot to pack into three years

 

[The Doctor]

There are several medical schools which have similar programs (though they do not subtract from the overall time that must be spent in medical school they do free up time for other endeavors such as research or a second degree). I would strongly urge you not to choose the abbreviated program. You are training for the career for the rest of your life; when things get tough, you will be thankful that you have a bit of a break now and again. Four years will fly by. You can't expect to absorb things as quickly when you have less time to do so and less time to digest in between. Your ability to study for the optometry boards may be adversely affected due to less free time to study and less time to learn the material initially. Choosing a slightly cheaper option may be shortsighted if it causes you to have less confidence in your abilities or to miss out on hiring or financial opportunities later.You may also miss out from the benefit of spending 4 years as part of larger cohesive social group of classmates. I think there are maturational benefits to spending several years in professional school apart from straight-up classwork. I would think strongly about this before acting.

 

[thecgrblue]

Just like was said, a number of medical schools do such. A few do so only for those moving into primary care specialties.

 

[withinvision]

Did they tell you when the clinical side would start for Salus?

 

[mjl]

Thank you everyone for your replys so far. And withinvision, i was told the entire last year was externships, im not sure when the rotations at the eye institute start though

 

[Commando303]

It is actually cheaper than the 4 year program, which is really the main draw for me. But I agree, it does seem like a lot to pack into three years

Unless I'm mistaken, the four-year program costs a bit more than $32,000/year; the three-year costs slightly over $33,000/year. Yes, this means you save ~one year's tuition, but you also are using a year's less of the school's time and resources.

In my opinion, this fast-track offering of an O.D. degree is a poor choice. Certainly, I may be proved wrong, as the program takes off, but, myself, I don't know I'd wish to be the guinea pig on whom testing is done and initial kinks are ironed out.

Additionally, I'm unsure how one's internship schedule would look, in the three-year program.

 

[Roffles]

I wouldn't do it. Remember, you're learning this information for life. Cramming it all into four years is hard enough, so three would be awful. Also, as stated above, don't be a guinea pig paying for the privilege.

 

[Visionary]

This should definitely help with your oversupply issue.

 

[mclem222]

You probably could do the whole optometry curriculum in 2.5 years if you crammed it straight all together. I say go for it.. We're not brain surgeons here. Go for it..Those who say it is tough to get it all together in 4 years are kidding themselves. Why are summer breaks necessary? Its not like he will do more work at any one time..just less breaks. Probably makes sense to make it three years. Less loans, less time wasted...

 

[Shnurek]

You probably could do the whole optometry curriculum in 2.5 years if you crammed it straight all together.

When did you graduate? Our curriculum is currently so packed its almost like medical school. In fact my anatomy professor that works at NYU med and SUNY opto says the NYU med students have an easier curriculum. So I don't know maybe it is school specific.

 

[Visionary]

When did you graduate? Our curriculum is currently so packed its almost like medical school. In fact my anatomy professor that works at NYU med and SUNY opto says the NYU med students have an easier curriculum. So I don't know maybe it is school specific.

This is where you lose me.

 

[Shnurek]

This is where you lose me.

Her words, not mine. She has a PhD.

 

[Visionary]

Her words, not mine. She has a PhD.

So do I. What does that have to do with it?

Perhaps, she was simply playing to your inferiority complex.

 

[mclem222]

I went to school at Berkeley. At the same time my brother was a med student at NYU and I can tell you that in no way was our anatomy even close to his. (why should it be anyway?). I think your professor was saying that to stroke your egos a little. I love optometry but whoever says our anatomy is comparable to a med students is either a. an idiot b. has no clue c. is someone overcompensating because they did optometry because they didn't get into med school or got weeded out d. all of the above. I have a great disdain for the optom students and optometrists who started out premed and then didn't get the grades or bombed the MCAT and then switched to optometry and now have a big chip on their shoulder. It annoys the f)**k out of me. Though everyone in my class claimed optometry was their first choice I knew about 30% of them from school in California etc and about 60% of those people had gotten weeded out of the premed route.

 

[thiaeyemd]

I tend to agree. I was on the pre health advisory committee at NYU undergrad recently and starting out there are about 1000 freshman who are premed, 100 pre dental, 5-6 pre optom, 3-4 pre chiropractice and 3-4 pre podiatric. Also about 1000-1500 are pre law. However as seniors the numbers change.. about 100 freshman graduate premed or go to med school, another 150-200 go to dental school, 80-90 go to optometry school, 20 go to chiropractor school and 20-25 go to podiatry school. The rest drop out of the sciences completely. The two big junctures for that are after organic chemistry and after the MCAT. The law school matriculators is about 600-700. It is known in the health advisory department that people will get weeded out and go to the other health care careers. Not a judgement.. Just how it is.

Can't comment on how hard anatomy is for med students vs. optometry students. I know that our anatomy exams were harder than the anatomy exams for the dental students..we had a lot of similar classes.

 

[Shnurek]

I never applied to any medical schools, took the MCAT nor planned to apply. As soon as I did my research and found that there are DOs that are basically MDs and learnt about all the scope of practice issues and political uncertainties especially with Obamacare coming in, I decided to take the less beaten path. I'm not saying it is superior or inferior. Nobody can predict the future.

In reference to my professor, let me elaborate: She stated that since we are full fledged providers in four years we have to learn a bit differently. MDs/DOs have residencies to bolster their experience. So far, our training is very relevant. We discuss pathology early on. We focus our anatomical studies on structures superior to the diaphragm, our optics studies are very detailed and focused on the eye and our general procedural learning mimics those of medical students (patient history, blood pressure assessment etc. etc.) but only in relevance to the eye.

Heck, we can prescribe oral medications after four years while MDs/DOs have to do an intern year in most states in addition to their four years in med school to do that.

 

[Shnurek]

I went to school at Berkeley. \

Again I ask: when did you graduate? Not from where.

 

[thiaeyemd]

I think the fact that you can prescribe oral meds and yet you say your training is "above the diaphragm" doesn't vibe well with me. How does that make sense. Also the optometry privelges are legislated..Because you can do it after four years doesn't make you more qualified to or have more knowledge about systemic disease than a 4th year med student. That doesn't make sense. If you think a fourth year optometry student knows more about prescribing oral medications than a fourth year medical student just because it has been legislated..your kidding yourself.

 

[Shnurek]

We learn the renal system and liver/GI physiology in a class other than anatomy and we learn pharmacology at the same level as the medical students or so I've heard, haven't taken it yet. We may not know as much about general oral medications affecting the general human organism but we sure know more about the ones that treat the eyes more than any allopathic or osteopathic graduate at the time of their graduation. Hence, ODs are only allowed to rx orals to do with the eyes, not any oral med they please.

 

[The Doctor]

I suspect you did have better training in anatomy with respect to eye diseases and neuroanatomy than I did, Shnurek. Heck, I chose to skip the head dissection day due to time constraints, and we learned all of our neuroanatomy in one afternoon. My school actually has the shortest anatomy experience next to the University of Guam because of our accelerated curriculum. I think people were probably just taking issue with your verbiage and the idea that one was "harder" than another. I'd just imagined it was more rigorous and focused in the relative sense that it was targeted especially toward advanced ocular anatomy and eye pathology. In the same way, allopathic medical school anatomy is probably "harder" in a different sense in that it has a much higher overall volume of information to learn with respect to diseases that affect the entire body. Different pathways each with their own benefits. I suspect residency training will give me additional knowledge to bolster the basic ophthalmic anatomy training I've had, and I hope having learned about the rest of the body will help establish a good context for learning about basic mechanisms of disease. (For example, I just finished my last day of a course in integrative medicine today, and my final 45 minute presentation was about biological mechanisms of aging with respect to age-related diseases and complementary and alternative therapies -- just a different approach to training in systemic disease).

 

[Shnurek]

I'd just imagined it was more rigorous and focused in the relative sense that it was targeted especially toward advanced ocular anatomy and eye pathology. In the same way, allopathic medical school anatomy is probably "harder" in a different sense in that it has a much higher overall volume of information to learn with respect to diseases that affect the entire body.

Exactly, that's what I meant

 

[thecgrblue]

We learn the renal system and liver/GI physiology in a class other than anatomy and we learn pharmacology at the same level as the medical students or so I've heard, haven't taken it yet. We may not know as much about general oral medications affecting the general human organism but we sure know more about the ones that treat the eyes more than any allopathic or osteopathic graduate at the time of their graduation. Hence, ODs are only allowed to rx orals to do with the eyes, not any oral med they please.

It honestly doesn't matter what med students vs. optometry students know come graduation. Keep in mind that upon graduation med students are a MINIMUM of halfway done with their training. Its like OD students talking up their school b/c they learn to refract during year 1 instead of year 3 like school xyz.

When I interviewed at OD schools I was a little put off when they explained their anatomy curriculae and how simple it was.

You really can't try to compare the two curriculae. You are prepping for 2, though similar, very different paths. OD school piles on classes and classes dedicated to optics that med school would never even touch.

 

[q1we3]

If optometry school is easier than medical school. Why would any optometry student have a problem with that. If it is too easy for you get a full time job while in school. You people are fighting over who took more anatomy classes. I mean seriously?

 

[Commando303]

Why are summer breaks necessary?

They aren't, and you tend not to get them (in a four-year O.D. program).

 

[Commando303]

[...]my anatomy professor that works at NYU med and SUNY opto says the NYU med students have an easier curriculum. So I don't know maybe it is school specific.

I'd guess your professor's comment, or your interpretation of it, is incorrect.

We learn the renal system and liver/GI physiology in a class other than anatomy and we learn pharmacology at the same level as the medical students or so I've heard, haven't taken it yet. We may not know as much about general oral medications affecting the general human organism but we sure know more about the ones that treat the eyes more than any allopathic or osteopathic graduate at the time of their graduation. Hence, ODs are only allowed to rx orals to do with the eyes, not any oral med they please.

I cannot understand how you might make claims to what O.D.s know — and to what M.D.s/D.O.s do not — regarding coursework you've not yet even begun.

 

[Shnurek]

I cannot understand how you might make claims to what O.D.s know — and to what M.D.s/D.O.s do not — regarding coursework you've not yet even begun.

Have you? I'll wait for someone that has to disprove me OK? And plus it doesn't take a genius to read future syllabi.

 

[speyeder]

Perhaps, she was simply playing to your inferiority complex.

This.