Accept DO or Reapply...?

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Iyrics

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Hi Guys,

I have a major dilemma. I'm currently a 3rd year student at a state school (gpa 3.8, avg extracurricular) with 2 DO Acceptances (RowanSOM and NYITCOM) and 1 Wait list at Downstate. I was originally only applying for DO schools, but once I got my MCAT score (517, after scoring in the low 500s in practice tests) back in November, I rushed to complete my AMCAS application. Needless to say, it was a Hail Mary. If I don't get in this cycle, would you guys recommend taking the DO acceptances or reapplying next cycle? I have nothing against DOs, expect that the Match lists between DO and MD schools are incomparable and I'm fearful about my future opportunities.

Thank you!

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Hi Guys,

I have a major dilemma. I'm currently a 3rd year student at a state school (gpa 3.8, avg extracurricular) with 2 DO Acceptances (RowanSOM and NYITCOM) and 1 Wait list at Downstate. I was originally only applying for DO schools, but once I got my MCAT score (517, after scoring in the low 500s in practice tests) back in November, I rushed to complete my AMCAS application. Needless to say, it was a Hail Mary. If I don't get in this cycle, would you guys recommend taking the DO acceptances or reapplying next cycle? I have nothing against DOs, expect that the Match lists between DO and MD schools are incomparable and I'm fearful about my future opportunities.

Thank you!

I would turn down the DO acceptance and apply MD... as long as your ECs are up to par. This is a very odd situation because most would tell you to never turn down a DO acceptance, but with that GPA/MCAT combination I definitely would
 
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Given your young age, I would reapply. Since you would be considered a re-applicant, you should probably have some additional EC's to talk about next round. I've also heard that Downstate takes a lot of people off the waitlist, so you have a good chance of getting in.
 
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I would also consider reapplying. With those stats, you'll get MD interviews for sure. Just make sure to apply as soon as AMCAS opens this time.
 
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Depends on your definition of average ECs, in my opinion. MCAT and GPA alone will not get you an MD acceptance, but given that you already have DO acceptances, they are probably fine.
 
I would very strongly consider going to Rowan.
 
Only you can answer this. We can all only say what we would do in this situation. Me personally, I would turn down the DO acceptance and reapply MD without much hesitation.

It sounds like you are only a junior in college and around 20 yrs old. You make an investment in your career and life by where you go to medical school. The letters behind your name, where you go etc it all matters significantly. It lasts with you your whole life. This is your career. You define what your goals are and what you want to get out of a career in medicine. Me personally, I would absolutely give myself a full application cycle and get into a school in line with my accomplishments and the opportunities that can be within range coming with it. It's an investment in yourself, one that will pay enormous dividends the rest of your life.

Having said all this this the reasons and thought process behind making a decision like this are everything. This isn't really about "Do you want to be a doctor?" which will inevitably get thrown around ad nauseum on here. And there will be people who see this as "arrogant", accuse of other things and take offense at someone considering turning down the DO route. To be blunt, there are people who dont separate emotional driven sentiments and what they see as "youre saying youre too good to be a DO" from what's actually relevant in practically assessing this and what's best for you. All that noise is largely irrelevant and worth ignoring. And this isnt about what I or anybody else would do.

Ultimately what this comes down to is your goals in medicine, your overall priorities and how "risk averse" you are. A major question you need to address is:

We all know the DO bias/limitations are still very real. It's easy to run for an acceptance now. What you have to ask is 4-5 years down the line when you are applying for residency, how will the fact you have obvious limitations/restrictions/hurdles in the match process and will have to make sacrifices that many MD grads who had worse stats than you in UG wont have to deal with affect you and your career goals?

If they wont be affected, take the DO acceptance and dont look back. If they will, this is one reason amongst others to do something about it now while you can.

Turning down a DO acceptance is a risk. To me, it is one well worth taking in this spot. But the issue here isnt whether you turn down the acceptance or not as much as your reasons/thought process for behind the decision and your overall goals.
 
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Since you really don't want to be a DO, I suggest that you give up the acceptance and let someone who really wants to be a doctor have the seat.

And learn to use the search function, because this is only the billionth time I've seen this question here.


Hi Guys,

I have a major dilemma. I'm currently a 3rd year student at a state school (gpa 3.8, avg extracurricular) with 2 DO Acceptances (RowanSOM and NYITCOM) and 1 Wait list at Downstate. I was originally only applying for DO schools, but once I got my MCAT score (517, after scoring in the low 500s in practice tests) back in November, I rushed to complete my AMCAS application. Needless to say, it was a Hail Mary. If I don't get in this cycle, would you guys recommend taking the DO acceptances or reapplying next cycle? I have nothing against DOs, expect that the Match lists between DO and MD schools are incomparable and I'm fearful about my future opportunities.

Thank you!
 
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Just know that if you turn down a DO acceptance, the DO door will very likely be closed forever
 
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With those stats I would reapply. Apply broadly to MD to do everything you can to garner an acceptance. The DO door will be closed to you most likely so you need to know the risks but with those stats I think it is a risk worth taking
 
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You have yet to really give the MD application a fair shot and it isn't fair to your future self to go to a DO school at this point. Absolutely worth the gamble.

You will likely be able to get into a DO school again. With non-refundable deposits they have nothing to lose by accepting you and if it sticks they get to snag someone with high scores. It's really a win-win for them.


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Hi Guys,

I have a major dilemma. I'm currently a 3rd year student at a state school (gpa 3.8, avg extracurricular) with 2 DO Acceptances (RowanSOM and NYITCOM) and 1 Wait list at Downstate. I was originally only applying for DO schools, but once I got my MCAT score (517, after scoring in the low 500s in practice tests) back in November, I rushed to complete my AMCAS application. Needless to say, it was a Hail Mary. If I don't get in this cycle, would you guys recommend taking the DO acceptances or reapplying next cycle? I have nothing against DOs, expect that the Match lists between DO and MD schools are incomparable and I'm fearful about my future opportunities.

Thank you!
I agree with most of the others for the following reasons:
1) You don't seem to really want to be a DO.
2) You are worried about being able to match to more competitive programs or specialties, which is a legitimate concern.
3) You are likely young and in your third year of college, so there is no huge rush.
4) Your MCAT and GPA are strong and your acceptances at DO schools this cycle indicate that you can pass an interview so your chances of acceptance are good if you submit your AMCAS early.

So apply via AMCAS next year as early as possible. And this is coming from someone who likes being a DO student.
 
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Just know that if you turn down a DO acceptance, the DO door will very likely be closed forever
This situation is why I strongly advise students not to apply without knowing your MCAT score, thus take an MCAT early enough to get a score OR skip a cycle if you need to (which can make you a stronger candidate and more time for MCAT Prep). It also why I find applicants need to reach higher than their "absolute" numbers may suggest, because if you dont ask, they cant say yes. And lastly, you shouldnt apply to a school you won't attend. Frankly, this is equivalent of being "greedy," that maybe you can get "more" next time. An old Russian proverb says "better is the worst enemy of good." You got accepted and now you think you can do better. Of course, as @Bones 2020 said above, turning this down may prevent ever being accepted to DO again.

My first reaction is to say, take the acceptance and dont look back. Of course @Goro has a point in that you dont believe being a physician as a DO is good enough (though you apparently thought it previously). So maybe you should reapply and role the dice again. Maybe you will get lucky. Of course some schools will ask on secondaries if you have ever been accepted to any medical schools (allopathic US or foreign and osteopathic). I would look for that on secondaries before you reapply.

So, turn down an acceptance in DO to apply to MD, where less than 1/2 the applicants get a spot. With your GPA and MCAT is about 80% . Take a gamble if you want. Of course, 20% of the applicants with your stats dont get accepted to MD. It is worth the risk?
You have yet to really give the MD application a fair shot and it isn't fair to your future self to go to a DO school at this point. Absolutely worth the gamble.

You will likely be able to get into a DO school again. With non-refundable deposits they have nothing to lose by accepting you and if it sticks they get to snag someone with high scores. It's really a win-win for them.


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:confused: wait, if someone turns down a DO acceptance, is the DO door really closed forever? I know it's the case for MD schools and turning down the MD acceptance/reapplying, but does this apply for DO schools?
 
There's no official communication between schools, as thiere is via AMCAS, but more schools are adding the prompt "have you been accepted to other schools, MD or DO?"

Lie at your own peril.


:confused: wait, if someone turns down a DO acceptance, is the DO door really closed forever? I know it's the case for MD schools and turning down the MD acceptance/reapplying, but does this apply for DO schools?
 
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:confused: wait, if someone turns down a DO acceptance, is the DO door really closed forever? I know it's the case for MD schools and turning down the MD acceptance/reapplying, but does this apply for DO schools?

With so many qualified candidates, why would you (as a DO school) offer an interview, let alone an acceptance. to someone who already turned down two DO acceptances last year?
 
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Why did you even apply this cycle if there was a possibility of things coming down to this?
 
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:confused: wait, if someone turns down a DO acceptance, is the DO door really closed forever? I know it's the case for MD schools and turning down the MD acceptance/reapplying, but does this apply for DO schools?

In a recent thread in response to @Goro's insistence that if you turn down a DO acceptance you're out forever several individuals shared stories of people who turned down a DO acceptance and were accepted upon reapplication. DO schools know that the majority of applicants are using DO as a backup. They don't care if you really want to be a DO. If they accept you and you ditch them for a MD school they still get to keep your $1000-3000 deposit. If you end up matriculating they get to boost their averages with your stats and you'll pay 4 years of tuition like everyone else.

I have yet to hear a logical counterargument.
 
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Can you defer the DO and apply MD this cycle?

I would take the risk at applying MD. You would even have a good chance at your state school which will save money
 
The real answer is that you should not have applied blindly without an MCAT score. Hindsight is 20/20.

Since you screwed yourself out of a full MD cycle with those stats, I think it's worth a shot to try again. Apply on the first possible day, and very broadly - you don't get to be picky about geographic restrictions or much else. Apply both MD and DO and take what you get.
 
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Personally I would turn it down and reapply next year.
 
In a recent thread in response to @Goro's insistence that if you turn down a DO acceptance you're out forever several individuals shared stories of people who turned down a DO acceptance and were accepted upon reapplication. DO schools know that the majority of applicants are using DO as a backup. They don't care if you really want to be a DO. If they accept you and you ditch them for a MD school they still get to keep your $1000-3000 deposit. If you end up matriculating they get to boost their averages with your stats and you'll pay 4 years of tuition like everyone else.

I have yet to hear a logical counterargument.

Sorry, still not understanding the process of how it works. From what I'm reading, MD schools have a communication system via AMCAS where if you turn down an MD acceptance, you essentially get blacklisted from applying MD schools again. Even without an official system, medical schools have the secondary question asking whether you have been previously accepted to US medical school (ignoring the consideration of foreign acceptances, because it's a confusing matter not really relevant to the discussion). There aren't any MD-DO cross talks happening from what I have read.

So, if you are accepted to DO school, turn it down and reapply to MD, what exactly happens if you honestly say you turned down a DO acceptance?
  1. Will you be blacklisted by DO schools?
  2. Will you be blacklisted by MD schools? Even despite the absence of cross talks between MD and DO?
Because if the answers to these questions are both no, why would a DO school accept someone who turned down a DO acceptance last cycle? Is it really due to a profit incentive (i.e. happily take nonrefundable deposits, boost class sizes etc.) as you have said? Or is it due to something else entirely?
 
If anything you will find some, if not the same, DO school to accept you next year.
 
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Sorry, still not understanding the process of how it works. From what I'm reading, MD schools have a communication system via AMCAS where if you turn down an MD acceptance, you essentially get blacklisted from applying MD schools again. Even without an official system, medical schools have the secondary question asking whether you have been previously accepted to US medical school (ignoring the consideration of foreign acceptances, because it's a confusing matter not really relevant to the discussion). There aren't any MD-DO cross talks happening from what I have read.

So, if you are accepted to DO school, turn it down and reapply to MD, what exactly happens if you honestly say you turned down a DO acceptance?
  1. Will you be blacklisted by DO schools?
  2. Will you be blacklisted by MD schools? Even despite the absence of cross talks between MD and DO?
Because if the answers to these questions are both no, why would a DO school accept someone who turned down a DO acceptance last cycle? Is it really due to a profit incentive (i.e. happily take nonrefundable deposits, boost class sizes etc.) as you have said? Or is it due to something else entirely?

You should not tell any MD school about your DO acceptance. As far as MD school admission is concerned DO does not exist. Only US MD school acceptances count.

I have yet to hear a logical explanation of why someone who turned down a DO acceptance will be shunned by all DO schools in the future. Maybe someone like @Goro would want to reject an applicant who has done this because he feels personally slighted but as he has mentioned in other threads he does not get final say and may/does get overruled.
 
If we had a candidate who turned down an acceptance, there had better be a damned good reason, like illness, for their actions. My DO colleagues react very negatively to "MD-wannabes", and I have a low threshold for people who make poor choices.

Don't know how an MD school would react. @gyngyn? @LizzyM? @mimelim? What say you?

So, if you are accepted to DO school, turn it down and reapply to MD, what exactly happens if you honestly say you turned down a DO acceptance?

  1. Will you be blacklisted by DO schools?
  2. Will you be blacklisted by MD schools? Even despite the absence of cross talks between MD and DO?
Because if the answers to these questions are both no, why would a DO school accept someone who turned down a DO acceptance last cycle? Is it really due to a profit incentive (i.e. happily take nonrefundable deposits, boost class sizes etc.) as you have said? Or is it due to something else entirely?[/QUOTE]
 
If we had a candidate who turned down an acceptance, there had better be a damned good reason, like illness, for their actions. My DO colleagues react very negatively to "MD-wannabes", and I have a low threshold for people who make poor choices.

Sounds like they would be reacting negatively to 90% of the applicants

Also it's amusing that after 23k+ posts @Goro hasn't mastered quoting posts, one of the most basic forum actions
 
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Seeing someone with a MCAT 318, GPA 3.8 who is a third year and holding offers of admission to DO schools and waitlist at MD (WTF? do you have so many AP credits that you could graduate this Spring? Are you staying on for another year or taking a gap year?) most MD schools will only look at the MCAT, GPA, year of graduation (if it is this year) and wonder why the applicant is a reapplicant. The date of the MCAT might answer that question by inference (very late Fall score report date). So we have a 3.8/318 who applied late the first time around. Do we think he's worth interviewing? Most likely going to get a nibble from the score ******, for sure.
 
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With so many qualified candidates, why would you (as a DO school) offer an interview, let alone an acceptance. to someone who already turned down two DO acceptances last year?

Because regardless of how much we might want to admit it, DO schools have to take chances/risks on certain applicants each year. There is a reason the average stats are 3.5 after grade replacement and a 27 on the MCAT. The quality of the applicant pool dictates who they take. If they didnt have to take people who after grade replacement have 3.2-3.3's and 24-26's on the MCAT they wouldnt. But they do despite them being a significantly greater risk to struggle in med school and this has little to do with "hollistic admission". So when a school sees a 3.8/36 app who is the exact opposite of this, that's why they might perhaps be willing to accept them.

The answer to Lawper's question is the sample size of applicants in this situation with high stats who turn down a DO acceptance is so small it's very hard to predict how schools will react. There absolutely are people who turn down DO schools and get into MD schools in later cycles. But many MD schools wont ask about previous acceptances. How a DO school will react to seeing a high stat applicant reapplying after turning down an acceptance? At Goro's school, it sounds like the reaction will be very unfavorable. At all DO schools will this be the case though? It's very hard to get a good answer on that. Anecdotal SDN pieces of evidence of "look this poster turned down a DO and got into another DO school later" dont really say or show much and are conclusive of anything.

Like others have said turning down a DO acceptance is a risk. But there comes a point where we have to acknowledge inherent risks in everything we do(entering med school itself is a risk) and I personally consider historically 85% of people with these stats getting into an MD school(with the possibility of a DO school taking them again) a risk well worth taking with what's at stake.
 
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Are the score ****** managed by the infamous MCAT Madam? A cruel Mistress who gets you all excited with an interview invite, then leaves you tied up on a waitlist, hanging until she cruelly rejects as she does to thousands of people at every school each cycle.

You make it sound so kinky but there are always shades of gray in admissions.
 
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Are the score ****** managed by the infamous MCAT Madam? A cruel Mistress who gets you all excited with an interview invite, then leaves you tied up on a waitlist, hanging until she cruelly rejects as she does to thousands of people at every school each cycle.
You make it sound so kinky but there are always shades of gray in admissions.

Well... this got suddenly steamy... :hungover::dead::hungover::dead:

Seeing someone with a MCAT 318, GPA 3.8 who is a third year and holding offers of admission to DO schools and waitlist at MD (WTF? do you have so many AP credits that you could graduate this Spring? Are you staying on for another year or taking a gap year?) most MD schools will only look at the MCAT, GPA, year of graduation (if it is this year) and wonder why the applicant is a reapplicant. The date of the MCAT might answer that question by inference (very late Fall score report date). So we have a 3.8/318 who applied late the first time around. Do we think he's worth interviewing? Most likely going to get a nibble from the score ******, for sure.

518* :angelic:
 
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Anecdotal SDN pieces of evidence of "look this poster turned down a DO and got into another DO school later" dont really say or show much and are conclusive of anything.

Actually when someone claims that something NEVER happens anecdotes showing that it in fact does are very useful.
 
Actually when someone claims that something NEVER happens anecdotes showing that it in fact does are very useful.

If you assume the claims of these annonymous SDN users are true. That is certainly an assumption. There've certainly been posters on this site in the past who claim theyve gotten into MD Schools after turning them down in previous cycles and after reading those exact threads and their exact wording/phrasing my response has been to call bull****.

Some may be true but regardless, I wouldnt make a decision of this magnitude with a couple random anecdotes by anonymous users that have zero way of being verified having a significant influence on my final decision. Likewise, just because it works for one person, doesnt mean itll work for you. And all of this is coming from someone with the same stance as you that the OP should in fact reapply MD.
 
wai da fuq do people apply in november????????????????????????????????
 
Reapply. DO closes doors.
Oh, please dont even go there.

:confused: who closes what doors? :confused:

In all seriousness, I'm still a little lost with denying DO acceptance and reapplying DO successfully in the next cycle. That... doesn't make any sense, both on the side of the applicant and on the admissions. I sincerely believe that having an AMCAS-equivalent system for DO schools will eliminate such an approach and finally get rid of those nonrefundable deposits.

And yes, I think that denying a DO acceptance is worthy of being completely blacklisted by DO schools. It's just confusing why this approach isn't implemented.
 
And yes, I think that denying a DO acceptance is worthy of being completely blacklisted by DO schools. It's just confusing why this approach isn't implemented.

Simple: because it's not in the best interest of the schools so they won't agree to it.


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Simple: because it's not in the best interest of the schools so they won't agree to it.


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Now this question is admittedly silly, but if that's the case, why are MD schools so punishing towards applicants who denied an MD acceptance? Why would they get blacklisted?
 
Now this question is admittedly silly, but if that's the case, why are MD schools so punishing towards applicants who denied an MD acceptance? Why would they get blacklisted?

The risk of admitting someone who may not be committed to the profession, who may either end up failing/dropping out or decide not to practice medicine once they finish is unacceptably high when you consider there are plenty of other equally qualified applicants who are less risky. Each school will make its own calculation though and one may determine that the risk is acceptable. If there's anything you learn in medicine it's never say never. On the other hand a DO school may be more forgiving/lenient as they don't have any other applicants with similar stats who will realistically matriculate at their school.


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The risk of admitting someone who may not be committed to the profession, who may either end up failing/dropping out or decide not to practice medicine once they finish is unacceptably high when you consider there are plenty of other equally qualified applicants who are less risky. Each school will make its own calculation though and one may determine that the risk is acceptable. If there's anything you learn in medicine it's never say never. On the other hand a DO school may be more forgiving/lenient as they don't have any other applicants with similar stats who will realistically matriculate at their school.


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Well say that a DO applicant with a 3.2/24 has a DO acceptance and (foolishly) turns down the acceptance to apply DO again. Will this applicant be blacklisted by DO schools?

For the same reasons I mentioned before. What does it say about an applicant's motivation and commitment who applies to a school, gets accepted, but turns down the offer? This person cant even commit to an acceptance? Did they get scared off? Why didnt they defer? Can he/she commit to the lengthy training of a physician? With admissions being an negative process with the need to par down thousands of applications to a few hundred acceptances, questions like the above raise red flags and make the applicant very suspect. With hundreds of other qualified, why risk it?

Additionally, The MD schools are under much more binding agreements and guidelines via AAMC/AMCAS then the DO schools are under AACOM/AACOMAS. One of these is the admissions traffic rules and required reporting to AMCAS for MD, which the DO schools do not have under AACOMAS. Since the National Acceptance Report is associated to an AMCAS ID and all the schools use either AMCAS for processing or compliant software, the applicant is can be automatically flagged from the start like a deferred applicant from one application cycle to the next.

So more lenient policies (i.e. the lack of admissions traffic rules) seen in DO schools allow them to be more forgiving to applicants who turn down the DO acceptance and reapply?
 
On the other hand, even with the growth of first year seats in DO schools, their applicant pool is growing at a much faster rate than MD applicant pool. Where it is about 41% matriculation rate at MD school, it is about 35% matriculation rate at DO schools. On a applicant to seat basis, DO schools are more competitive than MD schools, thus have become more selective.

What? If DO schools are generally more competitive based on the applicant/seat ratio, surely someone who turns down the DO acceptance will be blacklisted! Traffic rules, lenient policies etc. whatever the reason, DO schools aren't acting on their best interests if they don't blacklist applicants who turn down the DO acceptance and reapply.

Or maybe they are by not blacklisting strong DO applicants (i.e. MD-caliber)?
 
On the other hand, even with the growth of first year seats in DO schools, their applicant pool is growing at a much faster rate than MD applicant pool. Where it is about 41% matriculation rate at MD school, it is about 35% matriculation rate at DO schools. On a applicant to seat basis, DO schools are more competitive than MD schools, thus have become more selective.

These statistics are meaningless without pointing out that the average stats of DO applicants are significantly lower. In fact Goro himself pointed out that half of the applications he looks at are from people who have no business applying to med school to begin with. When an organization (osteopathic med schools) lowers the bar so much (applicants routinely get in having not even achieved the average MCAT score) it will inevitably attract unqualified applicants who will make the process look artificially competitive.

The MD schools also get unqualified applicants but as you can see by all the students who only apply DO (like OP until he got his MCAT score back) there is naturally some self selection occurring.

Well say that a DO applicant with a 3.2/24 has a DO acceptance and (foolishly) turns down the acceptance to apply DO again. Will this applicant be blacklisted by DO schools?

They've got plenty of other applicants with similarly poor stats to choose from. They wouldn't need to reconsider this applicant. The only reason I and others are telling OP that he most likely will get into a DO school again despite turning them down the first time is because his stats are so far above the DO average.


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They've got plenty of other applicants with similarly poor stats to choose from. They wouldn't need to reconsider this applicant. The only reason I and others are telling OP that he most likely will get into a DO school again despite turning them down the first time is because his stats are so far above the DO average.

So the quality of the applicant pool is the driving factor here. Okay that makes sense, thanks!
 
To sum it up OP, it's possible that "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"
 
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