Acceptances with no Clinical Experience

[ProsporeMembrane]

I am currently in my second year of undergrad and so far I have only accumulated about 100 hours of shadowing and 200 hours of research in a lab at my university. I was actually planning on taking this entire summer to study and that leaves only my winter break at the end of the year. I want to refrain from pursuing any ECs during the semester so that I can focus on my courses and keep up my grades. Because of all of this and some discussions, I had with several other premed students I know, I was wondering what the chance of someone with a high GPA, high MCAT (meaning >518), the same amount of ECs that I have now, and a well written PS would fare in applying.

In short, have there been any students out there that have been accepted with 0 clinical experience or faculty members who have admitted students like this? Thanks for the help in advance!

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[theoceanman]

0 clinical experience will screen you out of 99%, if not all, medical schools. How do you know you want to pursue medicine without having any clinical experience? You're going to be rotating through hospitals your third and fourth years, sometimes even second year depending on the school, and having no experience in a hospital setting will make you a liability on their end. There's been students that have been accepted with relatively low clinical hours and experiences (lower hours or fewer experiences), but they had other aspects of their application make up for it, such as stellar EC's, passionate commitment to specific populations such as the underserved or rural population groups, and unique backgrounds. Despite this, they still had clinical experiences such as shadowing, hospital/clinic volunteering, and other clinical experiences that still showcase that their passion lies in medicine rather than academics such as a PhD.

A high GPA, high MCAT, and a well-written PS are commonplace amongst the thousands of applicants each school receives, for both MD and DO schools, therefore they'll need some factors in-place to screen individuals out, and this starts with clinical and non-clinical experiences following the stats of individuals. Hence, having great numbers on your application and good writing skills won't do much for a complete lack of clinical experiences.

People have academic priorities, family responsibilities, and social events they want to attend throughout undergraduate years, but still manage to put together a stellar application with all of these components, what's stopping you from engaging in some clinical volunteering during the summer or even during the full-time school semester? I was one of the many individuals at my university (T30 school) that volunteered once a week for several hours and volunteered even more during the summer on top of 9 credits worth of classes each summer, managing to obtain consistently good grades while still having time to hang out with friends and family weekly. I think being willing to make some sacrifices to get these experiences will be necessary.

 

[deleted877888]

Clinical experience is so important, you definitely will need some. It's valuable beyond just having the number of hours on your application through having experiences to talk about in your writing and interviews. To be honest, I don't even know how someone would have good writing with no clinical experience. How do you even know if it's what you want if you haven't worked with patients before?

 

[cj_cregg]

As others have said above, at least a couple hundred hours of clinical experience (ideally across multiple care settings) is the bare minimum, and a must not only because adcoms will want you to have it, but also for you to make sure you are embarking on the right career path for you. If you are not willing to to do extracurriculars during the semester, you need to prepare for a gap year or two to gain this experience.

You also need to plan on at least a couple hundred hours of volunteer work, a good chunk of that being directly with underserved patient populations.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Even the legacy applicants don't get considered if they have no/low clinical hours at the programs I have worked with. Don't try to cut corners.

 

[Goro]

. Because of all of this and some discussions, I had with several other premed students I know, I was wondering what the chance of someone with a high GPA, high MCAT (meaning >518), the same amount of ECs that I have now, and a well written PS would fare in applying.

Zero.

This is not the application of a person who dearly wants to be a physician. It is the application of someone who wants to be a doctor as long as it is convenient.

From the wise LizzyM: I am always reminded of a certain frequent poster of a few years ago. He was adamant about not volunteering as he did not want to give his services for free and he was busy and helping others was inconvenient. He matriculated to a medical school and lasted less than one year. He's now in school to become an accountant.

Here's the deal: You need to show AdComs that you know what you're getting into, and show off your altruistic, humanistic side. We need to know that you're going to like being around sick or injured people for the next 40 years.

Here's another way of looking at it: would you buy a new car without test driving it? Buy a new suit or dress without trying it on??

We're also not looking for merely for good medical students, we're looking for people who will make good doctors, and 4.0 GPA robots are a dime-a-dozen.

I've seen plenty of posts here from high GPA/high MCAT candidates who were rejected because they had little patient contact experience.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimer’s or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

 

[ProsporeMembrane]

I understand. I told everyone I spoke to the same thing as well. I need clinical experience. It will be hard for me to dedicate any time to ECs this semester and the summer, but my schedule is much more free starting next semester. I really want to apply next year and taking a gap year will be extraordinarily difficult for me due to reasons I won't delve into it. I will take it if it's a must, but I still intend to apply next year. In the time I have left (a little more than a year) how should I go about getting clinical experience? Are there any ways I can get the experience without enrolling in extra courses for like MA and CNA positions? I was thinking about trying to look for an ophthalmic assistant position if possible because I have heard you can start working without certification and slowly get it while. your working. Something like this would be way more feasible for me. Thanks again in advance for the help.


On a side note:
I have been perusing through some old threads. I see that people used to consider shadowing and clinical volunteering as clinical experiences. How did clinical experience change from shadowing and volunteering to becoming an MA or CNA?

 

[Just D.O. it]

I understand. I told everyone I spoke to the same thing as well. I need clinical experience. It will be hard for me to dedicate any time to ECs this semester and the summer, but my schedule is much more free starting next semester. I really want to apply next year and taking a gap year will be extraordinarily difficult for me due to reasons I won't delve into it. I will take it if it's a must, but I still intend to apply next year. In the time I have left (a little more than a year) how should I go about getting clinical experience? Are there any ways I can get the experience without enrolling in extra courses for like MA and CNA positions? I was thinking about trying to look for an ophthalmic assistant position if possible because I have heard you can start working without certification and slowly get it while. your working. Something like this would be way more feasible for me. Thanks again in advance for the help.

Just cram in some good meaningful work during the summer. Of course consistent, long term volunteering is probably the most "preferred", but if you're privileged enough to have your summer be largely free to do as you will with it, its very easy to get enough clinical work under your belt to "check the box" even in a single summer break. Regarding specific opportunities, your premed classmates are probably a better resource than us for the ones that will be accessible to you. Ask your peers and also phone the volunteer coordinators at any hospitals within driving distance.

Edit: Volunteering with patient interaction counts as clinical experience, you don't need to be an MA or CNA.

 

[cj_cregg]

I understand. I told everyone I spoke to the same thing as well. I need clinical experience. It will be hard for me to dedicate any time to ECs this semester and the summer, but my schedule is much more free starting next semester. I really want to apply next year and taking a gap year will be extraordinarily difficult for me due to reasons I won't delve into it. I will take it if it's a must, but I still intend to apply next year. In the time I have left (a little more than a year) how should I go about getting clinical experience? Are there any ways I can get the experience without enrolling in extra courses for like MA and CNA positions? I was thinking about trying to look for an ophthalmic assistant position if possible because I have heard you can start working without certification and slowly get it while. your working. Something like this would be way more feasible for me. Thanks again in advance for the help.


On a side note:
I have been perusing through some old threads. I see that people used to consider shadowing and clinical volunteering as clinical experiences. How did clinical experience change from shadowing and volunteering to becoming an MA or CNA?

Shadowing and volunteering are still clinical experiences. Shadowing alone is not adequate, and about 50 hrs of shadowing in multiple specialties/clinical settings is where you will max out the benefit from that. Ophtho assisting is fine but is very narrow in breadth and will not get you exposure to the different fields of medicine, which should be a goal for you to make sure medicine is the right career path for you. For clinical volunteering, you might look into hospice agencies and free clinics in your area.

I can certainly understand your hesitations with wanting to do ECs during the semester, and not wanting to take a gap year. There are lots of valid reasons this might be the case. Understand though that you will be putting yourself at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage come application time. Even with a couple hundred more hours of clinical experience and volunteering, which is probably the most you can realistically hope to get over the next year, these extracurriculars would put you in the bottom quartile of applicants to the unranked school I review for, and you would almost certainly not get an interview let alone an acceptance even with a perfect GPA and MCAT. Bear in mind that over half of applicants do not get into any medical school, and consider which half you are likely to be in.

If that is a risk you are willing to take, that's fine, but consider the position you'd be in for a planned gap year with activities directed at correcting the deficiencies in your application as it currently stands, vs. spending a bunch of time and money on applying, not getting in, taking an unplanned gap year, and then being a reapplicant.

 

[anonymous426]

Aside from issues with your application, you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you don’t have any clinical experience. I promise you will look back and bitterly wonder why nobody told you what it would be like. Medical school will get very difficult, and you owe it to yourself to find out ahead of time what the rest of your life will be like. Please just take a gap year, I know it seems like forever now but it could prove to be invaluable.

 

[deleted1161197]

As someone with essentially perfect stats (4.0/527) who did not get into a SINGLE medical school due to lack of clinical experience, please do not try this. Your arrogance will kill your application like it did mine.