Accepted into PharmD program Should I change to pursue PA

[Lnsean]

I'm assuming you're a pharmacist? Why do you do pharmacy? Are you in it for the money? All your posts are against the profession and very closed minded.

Pharmacy has progressed rapidly over the past several years. Immunizations, MTM, blood testing, childhood vaccinations, hospitals adding residency programs, more hospitals recognizing the need for clinical pharmacists, discharge counseling, and I have witnessed all of these during rotations.

I have preceptors where doctors ask the pharmacist which medication they should use on patients.

Did you get a pharmD? Cause anyone with a pharmD knows that our schooling is just intense and even harder than what PA/NP. Which is why we been gaining over the past years

It's people like yourself who are the reason why pharmacy historically hasn't progressed as much as nursing. How can you be a pharmacist and tell someone to do NP/PA because it's the future! Pharmacy has a bright future my friend. I love this profession and will defend any day of the week

Please students, do not respond to my posts and just move along. They are directed at working licensed professionals in our field. You do not have the credibility nor do you command the respect that comes with real experience. Responses and criticisms from fellow licensed colleagues are of course welcomed.

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[HobbitJane]

I'm guessing many of you couldn't get into med. school, so your shooting as high as possible on the health care hierarchy scale. The old scale of #1 Doctor, #2 Pharmacist, #3 Nurse, is gone. Pharmacists now linger somewhere south of #5. Prescription writing power is where it's at. Pharmacists don't have that authority and NEVER will. Insurance reimbursement for pharmacist knowledge is shrinking. People can look up drug info just as fast as a pharmacist. So when a NP or PA call in prescriptions, you will learn more about the authority afforded the pharmacist. NONE.

I personally have the knowledge to do well on the MCAT and the high GPA to get into medical school. The shortage of residencies, malpractice lawsuits and the lack of family time are what discouraged me from pursuing medicine. If I was still a freshman, sophomore, junior or senior who could afford a gap year, I would definitely choose a more stable field and walk away from this nightmare. So when the field of pharmacy is completely saturated, what will new graduates do? Beg on the street, go back to school and gather more debt, jump off bridges in frustration at the cesspool of hopelessness that life has become? These are real questions and unfortunately, answers are not available.

 

[pharmerjohn]

I personally have the knowledge to do well on the MCAT and the high GPA to get into medical school. The shortage of residencies, malpractice lawsuits and the lack of family time are what discouraged me from pursuing medicine. If I was still a freshman, sophomore, junior or senior who could afford a gap year, I would definitely choose a more stable field and walk away from this nightmare. So when the field of pharmacy is completely saturated, what will new graduates do? Beg on the street, go back to school and gather more debt, jump off bridges in frustration at the cesspool of hopelessness that life has become? These are real questions and unfortunately, answers are not available.

The stuff in bold... From exploring different forums on SDN, there seems to be major positives and negatives in every health profession.

LOL at the last part... I'm sure there will still be people employed, it won't be the complete doom and gloom scenario that you're describing. It'll be rough though...

 

[BlknOrange]

What? You realize a pharmacist will make 2x that of a PA... the salary alone justifies the cost of the degree.

PA = the MDs bitch, in reality. That's what you will be at a PA.

I really hope you actually shadowed a PA or NP and/or worked in a pharmacy, whether it be retail, hospital or anything else. I don't think a person who actually did those things would actually say something like you did because, in reality, the people we are serve in the pharmacy are...prescribers (MDs, PAs, NPs, Nurses, DMD/DDS, OD, Vets) and patients/customers who are picking up/using their meds. Guess what that makes us, working in pharmacy? Also, if you're not the MD, you are, by default, an MD's b*tch.

Don't get me wrong, pharmacy has made many strides and I am glad. Pharmacists do alot more than before but the dispensing role of the pharmacist is not going away, people will always need their meds and for a long time that will be the central role of majority of pharmacists.

To the OP: I am also working as a tech at walgreens that does around 300-500 per day depending on the season or time of month. I thought I wanted to become a pharmacist too but after working there, I changed my mind and now I want to do something more clinical. I am also working in hospital inpatient pharmacy as a tech and it's really different but almost no patient interaction and unfortunately, in a hospital setting, RNs and MDs are the dominant ones.

You've a tech for 4 years so you know exactly what you're getting yourself into and have talked to many pharmacists I bet or even met those who were pharmacy interns who never worked in a pharmacy and realized what majority of pharmacy is, which is retail, and also what kind of work a pharmacist does and all the crap he/she deals with on a daily basis. Besides, I don't see Walgreens or CVS going away anytime soon. Also, how many times have you seen your store do MTM?

 

[opinionfree]

If youre really opinion free and want to present a true picture of pharmacy to a prospective student, why does your post not include any of the benefits or satisfaction involved in the career?

The reason some people paint it as all roses is probably because people on the other side of things are being equally extreme.

I swear I don't get all the issues with my handle name, it's ironic sarcasm.
Now, to more important issues. I am very pro-pharmacy. I love the profession, as it is. If the profession can evolve, to allow a greater role for the pharmacist, even better. I have serious reservations regarding the scope of those duties. Misleading young people is the last thing I, or 99% of the other pharmacists on here, would ever want to do. These kids are investing a fortune for an education in a career that isn't growing in line with other medical disciplines. If anything, the role is shrinking by comparison. Unless you factor the pharmacist becoming tasked with the unwanted duties of higher level medical professions. These kids already have their heads filled with lofty ideas regarding the profession. They need to hear about the reality of the profession, from WORKING pharmacists.
Retail: by far the power player in employment for pharmacists. Saturation is causing the employers to reduce pay rates and scheduled hours. Pharmacists complain they are overworked. The solution: they work fewer hours. They are less fatigued and able to work harder, when they are scheduled. Profit margins combined with saturation, will demand lower hourly rates.
Hospitals: lets use a very broad definition of what encompasses a hospital setting. Not really a huge employer, in comparison to retail. As reimbursement rates are reduced, ancillary tasks pawned off to the pharmacist, will be absorbed by positions with greater license definitions. If someone can write a prescription, they can counsel a patient about the prescription. If someone can write a prescription, they can monitor the patients labs. etc.
I have no solutions. That is the responsibility of the student. It is our responsibility, as working pharmacists, to provide a realistic picture regarding the now and future of pharmacy.
Soapbox: Control your desires to procreate. The added pressures of feeding children, combined with decreased earning potentials, will destroy your marriages and sanity. Invest your money in Google and MasterCard. Befriend your pharmacist peers, instead of competing with them.

 

[htownzsos]

thanks for all the comments even the trolls lol but I seriously had the chance to speak with my pharmacy manager who does a ton of OT even goes to San Antonio(pulls 3 shifts )when he's on his 4 days off after working 10 days straight. He pretty much told me houston is badly saturated (makes sense when theres 2 pharm school in the city) and the jobs are in the smaller towns and cities so if your willing to move you'll be alright and I am not. A recent grad pharmacist pretty much said similar stuff and said he hates what he does and is trying to get into hospital full time while he currently does weekends at the hospital and m-f in retail. I'm seriously just considering going to pa school since ive done the shadowing for couple years and will start doing more volunteer work and work full time in a related field. if I don't get in my last option is to get my mba. ( I had applied to mutliple pharmd/mba programs that were out of state schools and got interviews but declined this cycle after second thoughts on moving out of state and being away too far from home and partially why i only applied to 3 school in texas) i'm in no hurry only 23 years old with no serious responsibilities yet single, no child support, or major financial issues. I've gone through the incarnate word curriculum and I honestly hated the nuts and bolts of chemistry 2 and organic chem 2 and just dont see myself doing it another four years of it in pharm school. appreciate yall's opinions!

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

What? You realize a pharmacist will make 2x that of a PA... the salary alone justifies the cost of the degree.

How much do you think PAs and pharmacists make?

 

[THE MTL]

Please students, do not respond to my posts and just move along. They are directed at working licensed professionals in our field. You do not have the credibility nor do you command the respect that comes with real experience. Responses and criticisms from fellow licensed colleagues are of course welcomed.

Then why did you respond to a student thread then? If all your posts are for licensed professionals. BTW I will be a working licensed professional in 4 months. But lets get to the main point, I just think its an ignorant thing to say what you just said. As a pharmacist you should support students cause we are the future and progression of this profession. Just because you graduated doesn't give you instant credibility in anything! Just because you're older does not make you wiser!

Also that brings me to the question. Who actually has more outlook on the market. You or me the student? Let's see I'm in my final year and I'm currently applying for jobs. All my friends getting interviews residencies and fellowships. I have friends who have multiple offers with little to no experience. And what do you do? You stay at your pharmacist job. I'm actively in the job market

Thank you.

 

[type b pharmD]

as a working pharmacist I concur with all the above and especially the bolded

I am also a working pharmacist, and I don't believe I've given out erroneous information either. The profession is more promising than some other health professions, imho. It is a fact that salaries continue to rise, so I'm not sure where people are pulling this downward wage trend piece out of (their butts?)

Youre going to find sour apples in any profession, it is my feeling that pharmacy has many, many more of them, due to the fact that people who were going into this for the paycheck didnt understand what the words corporate and retail meant.

Insurance reimbursement for pharmacist cognitive based services is expanding, not shrinking -- but that doesn't even matter when a pharmacist can improve profit/cost by hundreds of thousands without sending a single bill to a payor. In my area at least, almost every large private practice has just recently started hiring pharmacists, and paying them out of their own pocket, knowing that insurance reimbursement is coming (actually working on setting up how we can pay pharmacists for this) , and that in the meantime, saving their practice a few hundred thousand makes their salaries worth it.

 

[nextyearrx]

go to PA school or even physical therapist is a good profession

 

[lamasacrerx]

Here is a good article that better describe what you are getting into if you continue with pharmacy http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drug-topics/news/who-will-stand-pharmacy. My humble advise to you- Stay out of this Game for good. I am not exagerating....

 

[type b pharmD]

Here is a good article that better describe what you are getting into if you continue with pharmacy http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drug-topics/news/who-will-stand-pharmacy. My humble advise to you- Stay out of this Game for good. I am not exagerating....

Boring-ass opinion piece

 

[DruggieDoRight]

Boring-ass opinion piece

No, it's time to jump ship. I mean the argument the article presents is more vaild because of how many clicks it takes to get the full article (thankfully adblock exists).

I think one thing to consider when joining the profession is that it is changing, not that other healthcare professions aren't also changing, but it sounds like that if we all bitch loud enough we can actually get things done.

Compare pharmacy to law, since that is often compared because it's often seen as a dieing profession (whether it is or isn't is a debate to be had elsewhere). Many graduates from law school do not have jobs lined up after school, and even the ones from the tier one school where I live have struggles finding jobs locally for at least a respectable pay. At least one job I know of had 80 applicants from that school, and only one was selected. New graduates aren't walking into that yet for a couple of reasons. Many of the for profit schools have yet to be established in pharmacy, the scope of the practice is growing, and older pharmacists and baby boomers are beginning to retire. If we can slow down or altogether stop the new schools from popping up, and increase the barriers of entry (no more 2.0 GPAs and 65- PCATS) then we should be fine. I think a lot of the already established schools are already moving toward this.

Unfortunately, comparing pharmacy to law makes for a very poor argument since they are apples and oranges, but there are some similarities. Regardless, you should do your own research. Pharmacy isn't a gravy train you can jump on yell "Choo Choo" and have employers line up for miles to give you money.

 

[Lnsean]

Then why did you respond to a student thread then? If all your posts are for licensed professionals. BTW I will be a working licensed professional in 4 months. But lets get to the main point, I just think its an ignorant thing to say what you just said. As a pharmacist you should support students cause we are the future and progression of this profession. Just because you graduated doesn't give you instant credibility in anything! Just because you're older does not make you wiser!

Also that brings me to the question. Who actually has more outlook on the market. You or me the student? Let's see I'm in my final year and I'm currently applying for jobs. All my friends getting interviews residencies and fellowships. I have friends who have multiple offers with little to no experience. And what do you do? You stay at your pharmacist job. I'm actively in the job market

Thank you.

Is reading comprehension that hard? Let me break it up for you so it's simple:

1. I am responding to a student thread because I am a licensed professional who has practiced for a number of years. I am here (along with other pharmacists) to offer my experience and what I have seen in the real world practicing as a pharmacist. Whether the students here listen or not is up to their discretion. Why is this hard to understand?

2. I am not seeking your advice or what your opinions are because you lack experience and credibility. You have nothing tangible to offer. No?

3. While I asked that you ignore my posts; the opposite is not true. I have no intention of ignoring yours when you are posting misinformation.

 

[owlegrad]

I don't even know why the site is named "Student Doctor Network" considering how little a non-pharmacist can contribute to a conversation.

 

[mbt285]

I don't want any trolls and want serious advice from people that are in the field currently or know what their talking about. I was accepted into University of The Incarnate Program in San Antonio Texas a private school, Lived just outside city of Houston my whole life graduated with a BS in kinesiology exercise science. Accepted for the fall 2014 and and committed to attend, but I have worked as a tech for 4 years and have a good grasp at retail and know If i become a pharmacist I know I don't want to work for walgreens or cvs as I have heard many pharmacist from nearby stores have been burned out cuz of retail poor management and not enough help due to constant hours being cut so often and not coming back as fast in these companies if i do retail I prefer HEB, Kroger or Costco the businesses that don't rely so heavily on pharmacy income. Ive been with walgreens that does an average 300 to 400 rxs average per day. I am aiming for hospital in a more clinical role and thus planning to do a residency or working for mail order or pharmacy benefit manager company. However the reality/problem I'm concerned with is that the pharmacy saturation keeps coming up on this forum, a lot of other forums place that pharmacy is saturated with no jobs out there and even heard it from a floating pharmacist that Houston is saturated. I dont want to go to pharmacy school spend 200k (even it being in loans when my parents are barely making by) and not being able to find a stable job 90 to 100k job within 6 months or so. Honestly I want a decent pay 80k+, family time and feel like my skills and education was put to good use without being burned out like doctors are often said to be. My other option is become a physician assistant, a profession I did shadowing back in high school and was appealing as well, only problem is I'll have to wait till the next cycle ultimately wasting a year while I take the GRE, start the application process etc in HOPES of getting into a PA program which my mom has also suggested to me to do as well. Also with a number of classmates from high school and people I met in college moving on with new jobs, taking up family businesses I kinda feel behind even though I'm only 23 years old. My ultimate job if I become a pharmacist is to work with government in a investigative role such as with the FBI or DEA, or Texas board of pharmacy. Any suggestions or recommendations?

So, there are always going to be pros and cons to any job that you seek. You have to figure out what you want in a job and what you want to take from the job. I personally want a job that I make decent money, have the ability to work part time, and interact with patients. I have been a nurse for over 5 years and have interacted with PA's, NP's, MD's, as well as pharmacists. I personally think that the balance the pharmacist position will afford me will be best for me and my family and I will also be able to do what I love-patient care. PA's, NP's and MD's, I believe, all have crappy schedules. For me, that is the biggest draw back to each of those professions. If I had my say in it, I would be a CRNA, but my husband is seeking that career and quite frankly it would be near impossible for the two of us to hold jobs as CRNA's in the same area around our family, so pharmacy, for me, is a great second! The PA as well as NP positions are going to be saturated soon because with all the government interveening MD's will not be paid enough to warrent them going to medical school and so the sane will opt for PA/NP so they can do what they love in less time and be paid slightly lower than what MD's will be making here in the near future (my prediction with ObamaCare). So take it for what it is worth-mine is only one perspective, but I hope it helps in some way. Best of luck to you!

P.S. Have you heard of the profession of Cardiac Perfusion? Also not the best schedule if you want to do part-time, but a great option for medical profession as well as great pay with only 2 years of schooling. Once again, not for me because of the crazy hours and on-call time ...

 

[Lnsean]

I don't even know why the site is named "Student Doctor Network" considering how little a non-pharmacist can contribute to a conversation.

No, that is just my opinion. It shouldn't be a reflection of the whole community on student doctor network. They can contribute; obviously no one is stopping them. I just asked kindly that they don't respond to me because they really don't have any insights to offer me in terms of what working conditions are like and where the profession is heading. I'm not going to have a debate about it with someone who has yet to see an hour of real experience, where your credibility is being tested each day. It's like having a conversation on Paris with someone who's never been to Paris. Ya know?

"oh yea Paris!, it says here in the travel guide....excellent place for couples....so romantic"