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Accused of trying to be wonder woman

Discussion in 'Women in Healthcare' started by MangoSupasonic, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    Here's the peer reviewed article link too:

    Mating markets and bargaining hands: Mate preferences for attractiveness and resources in two national U.S. studies

    Summary: Rich women STRONGLY go for rich/"good career" males, Rich men go for slender and younger women.

    Not too complicated.

    Ergo, richer/higher income males often DONT value high income in their partner compared to slender/youthfulness likely due to wanting a family from a biological perspective.

    Women of all socioeconomic classes want men who earn equal or often MORE than they do as a primary motivator for commitment. This correlation is STRONGER for HIGHER income women.
     
    Prince090 likes this.
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  3. cj_cregg

    cj_cregg 2+ Year Member

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
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  4. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    So if a man who makes plenty of money as a physician doesn't really care about money in a mate but is more concerned mostly with a "slender body" and a "good looking" female (educated men had the HIGHEST correlation with that statistic), wouldn't those docs mostly go for younger, slender looking trophy wives as their most desirable goal?

    According to the survey, this is their highest value in a female they want to marry/date.
     
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  5. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    Also, here is an article from psychology today:

    Very Wealthy Men Marry Much Younger Women

    Wealthy men who presumably have their choices of women will marry FAR YOUNGER women as second wives.

    Ergo, wealthy men/high income men overall have a high correlation with interest in slender and younger women.

    The trade off appears to benefit both parties considering they are often able to achieve that goal due to the value that the younger/slender women put on wealth.
     
  6. cj_cregg

    cj_cregg 2+ Year Member

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  7. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    Your statement was in two parts:

    1) Your conservative rural guys didn't want a high income female. My solution: look for liberal open minded poorer guys that are willing to be house husbands. Problem solved.

    2) You claim that people of similar income brackets have "more in common" and therefore "are good mates". My answer: This is an incorrect assessment for the values that "educated" and "rich" men hold the HIGHEST. Sure women will often want a male with similar or higher income (particularly when they are high income themselves) as their highest ideals but NOT men ON AVERAGE.

    Ergo, I linked the article showing the strong correlation between rich men and younger/slender wives. Richer men are usually less interested in "common interests" with similar income/aged women compared to younger/slender women.

    That is why I linked multiple articles confirming that assessment.

    These are AVERAGES obviously so please don't come back with exceptions that will fall outside of these. They are called EXCEPTIONS for a reason.

    There is where the major disconnect is for female physicians.
     
  8. cj_cregg

    cj_cregg 2+ Year Member

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  9. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    1) Ok not all men like career women. And?
    2) Umm don't get the point
     
  10. na1433

    na1433

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    Having a job does not equal to abandoning your kids. You can choose a speciality that has better hours if your worried. Family practice, dermatology, or others. Ik alot of women who worry about family and being a doctor, but its manageable. My mom doubts me all the time on my decisions because she worries, and i think thats all it is. I think you should keep going.
     
  11. Gliabelle

    Gliabelle Dork Supreme 2+ Year Member

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    Wow, this thread sure is a ****show of irrelevant opinions that have nothing to do with the OP's situation. She already has her kids and her husband, so "leaving the workforce after she has kids" is a moot point, as is any blather about marrying up or down. OP, I went back to college after my divorce, when my youngest kid was 8 and my oldest was 13. I spent five years getting three BS degrees with honors, and am now halfway through an MS in neurobiology, and strongly considering applying to MD/PhD programs. I am re-partnered, and my partner is a med-school-bound 2nd year biochemistry undergrad with two sons; I am largely supporting the family on a graduate scholarship, as well as various TA and RA appointments, until he graduates. A close friend finished her MD program around the time I started school, and had her first baby during her third year. She got the residency she wanted, and did a third year as chief resident, then went into private practice as a primary care physician. She just had her second child last year, the kids are beautifully bonded to her, she's a great mom, and the family is doing fabulously well. Don't let anyone's wishy-washy insecurities and discouragement hold you back from your ambitions; there are risks involved in every endeavor worth doing. Many people have surprisingly negative gut reactions to people who make choices that are different from their own, because they feel like it invalidates their choices, so you can expect to hear a lot of criticism and discouragement. Devote yourself to doing well academically, and find programs that offer financial support to assist with medical school debt. Apply for everything! The best thing about this process is that while I have always been very close with my children, they have also expressed so much pride in me and encouragement for what I'm doing that no matter how discouraged I feel sometimes, especially by social attitudes (just this week a colleague asked me to babysit for him on Friday because his wife is out of town!) my children's admiration and love drives me to keep pushing forward to accomplish my goals. Anyway, that was a really long-winded way of saying that you can definitely do this, and your children not only won't suffer but there is research that strongly indicates that your successful pursuit of your goals will result in them, too, pursuing higher ambitions.
     
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  12. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    I wouldn't count on derm in any plans
     
  13. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    You have kids that are 8 and 13 with only being in a masters program? How old are you at this point?

    I also assume you have zero assets and most likely a decent amount of debt.

    If you are in the mid-late 30s before even starting an MD/PHD program, you would be mid 40s before getting out even into a residency with huge debts.

    How would you ever pay down your loans? This is considering you never get sick or have any hiccups along the way.

    These stories on here are NOT practical from a financial standpoint.
     
    Prince090 likes this.
  14. DokterMom

    DokterMom 2+ Year Member

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    Interesting contribution -


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    @Gliabelle - Thank you for your inspiring story. It's clear your success also inspires others... :confused:
     
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  15. MangoSupasonic

    MangoSupasonic

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    I log in after a month or so and see a fire storm. Yikes!
     
  16. MangoSupasonic

    MangoSupasonic

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    I think I failed to mention that I'm currently picking up the slack so that he can finish his academic/career goals. So I totally agree with your comment, it's a give and take and being totally honest with one another.
     
    Faefly likes this.
  17. RuralMedicine

    RuralMedicine Senior Member Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I am the female half of a dual physician couple. We divide up parenting responsibilities and household duties in a way that works for us and our professional responsibilities. We're both very involved parents and we work together and adapt to make it work for our family. It isn't always easy but it is possible and very worth it.
     
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  18. iqe2010

    iqe2010 7+ Year Member

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    I know of a female surgeon who was a single mother of 2 young kids when she began her journey to become a physician. Her story was very inspirational.

    Good luck, OP.
     
    Faefly likes this.
  19. BonsaiClouds

    BonsaiClouds

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    It's a little ridiculous that other people are lecturing and moralising on how to pursue your ambitions. Of course it can be done. It won't be easy, but it can be done.
     
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  20. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    Sorry to rain on your "I am woman hear me roar" discussion but reality kind've sucks.

    Choices need to be made or bad financial consequences are likely.

    Soon I will hear cries about "how unfair it is that I have alot of student loan debt", etc etc.
     
  21. DokterMom

    DokterMom 2+ Year Member

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    I'm sorry that your life is sucky. Mine's pretty great, actually. Busy, challenging, but very rewarding --

    Sure choices need to be made -- You can/have to do that too, right?
     
  22. DrCommonSense

    DrCommonSense

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    Im happy for you since its all perfect financially and you have overcome all those obstacles.

    Great job
     
  23. Hakuna Matata

    Hakuna Matata 2+ Year Member

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    Some of the sexist comments in this thread are ridiculous.
    OP- of course you can have it all. I'm in residency, married, 2 kids. Do I see my family less than I would if I were in a less grueling profession? Probably. Does that mean they have a worse life because of it? Hell no. I have an amazing family and we spend more quality time together than a lot of other non-medical families I know. Life is give and take. Do what you love. PM me if you ever want advice. Good luck.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  24. dpmd

    dpmd Relaxing Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Why make this assumption? She didn't even mention loans in her description and there is no reason to believe she walked away from the divorce penniless. Plus she mentioned an interest in the MD/Phd program which typically is associated with less debt incurred during school.

    As for the OP, her husband may earn enough money that they are able to avoid much debt for her training, and considering she is doing her part to help him achieve his academic and career goals it isn't unreasonable for his to spend some time doing the same. Depending on her eventual specialty he may find his "investment"in her pays off well.
     
  25. Faefly

    Faefly

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    I think she is allowed to follow her dreams without people telling her that her children will be ruined forever!
    I don't think to be a stay mom or working mom can make kids bad or good.
    What makes kids good is being a loving, supportive, mom + a good and loving father who loves and respect each other.


    Would you use this guilting technique if it was a guy who shared this?


    OP
    Please don't listen to doubters or people who tell you can't do it.

    I believe you can do it and it's a good thing that you don't share your dreams with others.

    I never tell people what my real dreams are.

    People don't want dreamers to reach their dreams.


    Look now how dreamers are sent out of this country but that unrelated to our story..

    Go for it!
     
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  26. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    You can't be in two places at once.

     
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  27. DokterMom

    DokterMom 2+ Year Member

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    You seem to assume that only a child's mother can raise a good person...
     
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  28. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    No, it takes two to tango, but generally speaking, women raise great children and men raise great adults. That is why there is scientific literature saying that the first 6 years of the child's life is the most formative. If mommy is gone all the time, that can lead to abandonment issues. That's why for thousands of years men would work and women would stay home with children. You can't uproot all 75k years of evolution or however long human history is and expect smooth sailing. That's like expecting humans to live an amphibious life style. Can you do it? I guess, but you are fighting against biology and making life tougher when you could just be a hunter and gatherer on land.

    Medical school will be there when your kids are 14 years old. With parenting its pay me now or pay me later three times as much.

     
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  29. I'm unsure about this. Perhaps the better word is a "female caretaker" rather than mother. I was raised by my grandmother and a nanny when my mom was in med school, and I have no issues with my parents.
     
  30. valid username

    valid username 7+ Year Member

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    I had the most amazing ObGyn elective earlier this year. A few weeks in the attending asked a few (appropriate) personal questions. Ever since that day he has called me Wonder Woman. Even when I went by months later to ask about my letter he introduced me to his students as Wonder Woman.

    I really loved helping the moms. I am pretty good at it but OB is too intense for me. The third time he told me what a great OB I would be (even though I told him I wanted to go into psych) I made it very clear "Absolutely not going to happen--of course it seems like I will make a great OB. It's not very hard when Super Man is in the room!"

    Of course you can do it. Of course you will make sure your children are taken care of. And OBs really are amazing. They are like mechanics who work on cars travelling down the interstate. You need to be a super hero to be an OB, so go ahead and embrace the title. Good luck to you.
     

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