ACGME-Resident Services

[zihuatanejo]

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There was a recent thread on whether it was worthwhile to complain about a program to ACGME. I had entertained that same question last summer shortly after my graduation from my residency program. On the last day of my residency, I was advised that a comment would be included in my summative evaluation based on a negative comment in an evaluation submitted in the last 3-4 months of residency. I had not gotten any feedback from this attending regarding this evaluation and even the content of her particular evaluation was in dispute and was based not on direct observations of me but rather on hearsay and inaccurate information. I never got a chance to discuss this evaluation with this attending and to present my side of the story. Initially, I tried to get answers through my residency program but they just stonewalled and did not answer my questions or address my concerns. Weeks would go by without responses to my inquiries.

After three months of wasting my time in my futile pursuit of answers from my residency program, I contacted ACGME resident services in late September, 2011. I encountered similar problems with the ACGME in that I would not get a response to my initial email to them for weeks. Finally on October 27, 2011. I got an email from Amy Dunlap at ACGME resident services that read in part as follows:

Even if I were to address your specific evaluation in the complaint letter and received a response from the program with answers to all of your questions, I could not share them with you. Complaints are confidential. You would only be privy to knowing whether or not the accreditation was affected (since that is the only thing that can be affected using the complaint process). What I am trying to tell you is that there is more possibility for me to get you the answers you seek by proceeding with a concern. There is no guarantee, but there is more possibility. If I address it as a complaint, there is no chance you will get these questions answered. If your goal is to prevent this from happening to another resident, I think that the concern process would also be quite useful. It lets the program know that they are on our radar and that we expect fair processes to be in place. It also asks that they truly investigate their own processes and exam how things are being done. In summary, I think you have a better chance of getting your goals addressed by using the concern process.

Amy Dunlap
Resident Services Associate

After another delay of two months of not getting updates on the progress of my concern or getting my follow-up emails ignored and otherwise rude and unprofessional conduct of ACGME staff members, I emailed Dr. Thomas Nasca, the CEO at ACGME to complain of this and did not get a response. I finally called Dr. Nasca's office and spoke to his assistant who was rather arrogant and seemed dismissive of my concerns. The next day, I was contacted by the ACGME attorney, Douglas R. Carlson. On December 16, 2011, Douglas R. Carlson wrote in an email attachment:

As ACGME has previously informed you, you have an individual dispute with your former residency program, and ACGME does not adjudicate individual disputes between resident physicians and programs. You have previously acknowledged that ACGME cannot force the program to remove a comment from your final summative evaluation. However, we have made inquiry of the program relating to your communications to us in an informal manner that does not implicate the accreditation process. We call this an inquiry relating to your concern that you brought to our attention. ACGME has received a response to our inquiry which provides the institutional and program perspective on your concern. The institution and program remain confident in the appropriateness of their actions relating to you. We understand that this is not the resolution that you desire, but it does end our concern process.

I was not satisfied with Mr. Carlson's response on behalf of the ACGME and sent a follow-up email reminding Mr. Carlson of Ms. Dunlap's previous email in which she recommended that I pursue a concern process because I was more likely to get answers to my questions or concerns that way rather than through a formal complaint process in which the communications with the institution or GME program would be kept confidential. I asked him if my former residency program had provided those answers and to share what he had learned from ACGME's supposedly informal communication with my former residency program. I also asked him to provide proof that ACGME had indeed contacted my former residency program and had received a response rather than me just accepting his unsubstantiated assertions.

On December 19, 2011, I received the following email from Douglas Carlson:

From: "Carlson, Doug" <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:21:54 -0600
Subject: RE: ACGME
To:

Contrary to your email, my email consists of statements, not allegations.

As is the norm among educational accrediting agencies, ACGME maintains the entire submission from the program as confidential.

Doug Carlson

I sent further emails to Mr. Carlson and Dr. Thomas Nasca, CEO of the ACGME, to get them to address my questions and concerns as the ACGME had indicated they would try to do in my communications with Amy Dunlap. I specifically wanted them to address the discrepancy between Mr. Carlson's claim that all communications between the ACGME and the residency program would be kept confidential and Ms. Dunlaps' statement that only in the case of formal complaints rather than concerns would the communications between the ACGME and the residency program be confidential. Mr. Carlson and Dr. Nasca have apparently decided to ignore my emails and have not provided any responses to what I believe to be very legitimate questions.

Has anyone else gotten this kind of arrogant, dishonest, dismissive, and rude treatment from the ACGME? On the flip side, has any resident ever found the ACGME's resident services to be helpful to them in any way?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

So to briefly summarize...

You were unhappy with an individual evaluation, so you complained to the ACGME to try and get your bad grade erased? Then when the process moved too slowly for your satisfaction, you started cold calling the ACGME president, and sending inflammatory emails to lawyers representing the ACGME?

And you are surprised/disgruntled that this didn't achieve the desired effect?

I sent further emails to Mr. Carlson and Dr. Thomas Nasca, CEO of the ACGME, to get them to address my questions and concerns as the ACGME had indicated they would try to do in my communications with Amy Dunlap. I specifically wanted them to address the discrepancy between Mr. Carlson's claim that all communications between the ACGME and the residency program would be kept confidential and Ms. Dunlaps' statement that only in the case of formal complaints rather than concerns would the communications between the ACGME and the residency program be confidential. Mr. Carlson and Dr. Nasca have apparently decided to ignore my emails and have not provided any responses to what I believe to be very legitimate questions.

At no point in the portion of the email from Amy Dunlap that you copied here does she state that the ACGME's communications with the residency program would not be confidential...

The emails you posted from Doug Carlson are very precisely worded. His comment on the difference between "statements" and "allegations" is particularly spot-on; his email (at least what you have posted here) contains only statements. By contrast your post is full of emotionally charged allegations.

I'm sorry this process hasn't gotten you the outcome you wanted, but I really don't think this was ever an ACGME appropriate issue to begin with, and you have so much anger over this that it appears to be affecting your ability to communicate effectively and negotiate the bureaucracy involved in the complaint/concern process.

 

[zihuatanejo]

So to briefly summarize...

You were unhappy with an individual evaluation, so you complained to the ACGME to try and get your bad grade erased? Then when the process moved too slowly for your satisfaction, you started cold calling the ACGME president, and sending inflammatory emails to lawyers representing the ACGME?

And you are surprised/disgruntled that this didn't achieve the desired effect?



At no point in the portion of the email from Amy Dunlap that you copied here does she state that the ACGME's communications with the residency program would not be confidential...

The emails you posted from Doug Carlson are very precisely worded. His comment on the difference between "statements" and "allegations" is particularly spot-on; his email (at least what you have posted here) contains only statements. By contrast your post is full of emotionally charged allegations.

I'm sorry this process hasn't gotten you the outcome you wanted, but I really don't think this was ever an ACGME appropriate issue to begin with, and you have so much anger over this that it appears to be affecting your ability to communicate effectively and negotiate the bureaucracy involved in the complaint/concern process.

If this matter was not appropriate for the ACGME to address, why didn't they just say that instead of leading me on for months? Frankly, you don't know what the hell you are talking about and I don't appreciate your response. Before you display your ignorance and arrogance, I suggest that you open up a dictionary and learn what allege or allegation means. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines "Allege" as "to assert without proof or before proving." Synonyms for "allege" include "affirm," "claim," "assert," "contend," "declare," "insist," and "maintain." So Mr. Carlson's unsubstantiated claims that ACGME had "informal" contact with my former residency program, had gotten a response from the program, and that the response was of the nature that he described could indeed be described as constituting "allegations" as well as being "statements" because he did not prove these claims and conveniently did not want to submit such proof because of the supposedly confidential nature of communications between the ACGME and residency programs.

So you think waiting for five or six weeks to get an update or any response is reasonable? Tell me exactly what it is that ACGME had done for me that would take them 3 months to accomplish. Also, tell me why ACGME can't or shouldn't share with me the results of their "informal" inquiry that took them 3 months to complete. Did you really read Amy Dunlap's email? She stated that I was more likely to get a response with a concern process rather than a formal complaint. Douglas Carlson, the attorney, seems to suggest that all communications between the ACGME and the residency programs are always confidential, including responses to a resident concern. I would say there is a discrepancy between those two statements. If you don't think there is a discrepancy, I would appreciate it if you would explain your rationale in a polite and sensible manner instead of calling me "emotional," "angry," or someone supposedly unable to form a coherent response due to their supposed anger. You did not see my responses to either Ms. Dunlap or Mr. Carlson. So how the hell do you know whether my responses were coherent or not? You have just exposed your own biases and prejudices with your stupid and idiotic comments and opinions. Your personal attacks on me are not welcome or appreciated. If you are going to act like a holier than thou tool, do it on another thread.

Your unprovoked attack on me is kinda creepy. I wonder what it is that I have done to you that made you so unhinged so as to respond in this way. You are the one who seems to be angry, and your anger seems to have resulted in a response devoid of logic and reason. So if you have nothing useful or constructive to say, I suggest that you don't respond and keep your idiotic perspectives and one-sided judgments to yourself. That is not so hard to do. Is it?

 

[DocDanny]

Calm down, dude.

There's no need to jump down his throat like that.

The fact of the matter is that you are pissed, and maybe it's justified, but your anger has biased you. You are unable to process this rationally.

I mean, you got into a fellowship, right? Why do you are so much? You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The ACGME concern/complaint process is designed to allow residents to raise concerns about programatic issues / problems / failures. It does not address individual resident issues, like your case. So, from the start, neither process (concern or complaint) was likely to help you nor yield any useful information. This process would only be helpful for trying to fix problems like "resident in my program are not supervised sufficienctly in clinic".

What Ms. Dunlap's email was trying to tell you is that by filing your issue as a "complaint", it would automatically be seen as an "aggressive attack" against your program. The ACGME would notify the program that the complaint would be investigated and their accreditation was at risk. For sure, you would not be told anything about the findings. If filed as a "concern", the program's accreditation would not be at risk. There was some chance that the program would change something, or talk to you about the situation. But regardless, the process remains confidential between the program and the ACGME. Ms. Dunlap was simply suggesting that by using the concern process, there was more of a chance that the ACGME inquiry might result in the program reviewing your case with you.

 

[45408]

If this matter was not appropriate for the ACGME to address, why didn't they just say that instead of leading me on for months? Frankly, you don't know what the hell you are talking about and I don't appreciate your response. Before you display your ignorance and arrogance, I suggest that you open up a dictionary and learn what allege or allegation means. The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines "Allege" as "to assert without proof or before proving." Synonyms for "allege" include "affirm," "claim," "assert," "contend," "declare," "insist," and "maintain." So Mr. Carlson's unsubstantiated claims that ACGME had "informal" contact with my former residency program, had gotten a response from the program, and that the response was of the nature that he described could indeed be described as constituting "allegations" as well as being "statements" because he did not prove these claims and conveniently did not want to submit such proof because of the supposedly confidential nature of communications between the ACGME and residency programs.

So you think waiting for five or six weeks to get an update or any response is reasonable? Tell me exactly what it is that ACGME had done for me that would take them 3 months to accomplish. Also, tell me why ACGME can't or shouldn't share with me the results of their "informal" inquiry that took them 3 months to complete. Did you really read Amy Dunlap's email? She stated that I was more likely to get a response with a concern process rather than a formal complaint. Douglas Carlson, the attorney, seems to suggest that all communications between the ACGME and the residency programs are always confidential, including responses to a resident concern. I would say there is a discrepancy between those two statements. If you don't think there is a discrepancy, I would appreciate it if you would explain your rationale in a polite and sensible manner instead of calling me "emotional," "angry," or someone supposedly unable to form a coherent response due to their supposed anger. You did not see my responses to either Ms. Dunlap or Mr. Carlson. So how the hell do you know whether my responses were coherent or not? You have just exposed your own biases and prejudices with your stupid and idiotic comments and opinions. Your personal attacks on me are not welcome or appreciated. If you are going to act like a holier than thou tool, do it on another thread.

Your unprovoked attack on me is kinda creepy. I wonder what it is that I have done to you that made you so unhinged so as to respond in this way. You are the one who seems to be angry, and your anger seems to have resulted in a response devoid of logic and reason. So if you have nothing useful or constructive to say, I suggest that you don't respond and keep your idiotic perspectives and one-sided judgments to yourself. That is not so hard to do. Is it?

.

You did not see my responses to either Ms. Dunlap or Mr. Carlson.

No, but I can only imagine.

 

[deleted103644]

If this matter was not appropriate for the ACGME to address, why didn't they just say that instead of leading me on for months?

If I sent the Supreme Court a complaint about a hangnail, should I expect an immediate response informing me that my foot hygiene is outside their jurisdiction?

The information that the ACGME was not going to be helpful to you is readily available. The ACGME has other responsibilities that take priority over your unnecessary correspondence.

If you continue to use this approach for conflict resolution in your professional career, it will likely be unpleasant and brief.

I'm being harsh, but seriously, some self reflection is in order here.

 

[DocDanny]

If the Supreme Court did rule on your hangnail, it'd likely be a 5-4 decision.

 

[zihuatanejo]

If I sent the Supreme Court a complaint about a hangnail, should I expect an immediate response informing me that my foot hygiene is outside their jurisdiction?

The information that the ACGME was not going to be helpful to you is readily available. The ACGME has other responsibilities that take priority over your unnecessary correspondence.

If you continue to use this approach for conflict resolution in your professional career, it will likely be unpleasant and brief.

I'm being harsh, but seriously, some self reflection is in order here.

Look buddy, you seem to be missing the main point and, please, the patronizing attitude is not necessary. Where is this information that is readily available indicating "the ACGME was not going to be helpful?" Can you please enlighten us and provide a link to this information? Believe me, I don't relish wasting my time and energy on a wild-goose chase. If the ACGME had not given me false hope by suggesting that the resident concern process might result in getting some of the answers that I had been seeking from my program and perhaps result in improvements in the feedback process regarding resident evaluations that could potentially benefit residents at my former residency program, I would not have pursued what is clearly in retrospect a hopeless quest. I just don't understand why you are blaming me instead of placing at least a portion of the blame on the ACGME for giving me false hope and leading me on during this whole fruitless and useless exercise.

 

[deleted103644]

Look buddy, you seem to be missing the main point and, please, the patronizing attitude is not necessary. Where is this information that is readily available indicating "the ACGME was not going to be helpful?" Can you please enlighten us and provide a link to this information? Believe me, I don't relish wasting my time and energy on a wild-goose chase. If the ACGME had not given me false hope by suggesting that the resident concern process might result in getting some of the answers that I had been seeking from my program and perhaps result in improvements in the feedback process regarding resident evaluations that could potentially benefit residents at my former residency program, I would not have pursued what is clearly in retrospect a hopeless quest. I just don't understand why you are blaming me instead of placing at least a portion of the blame on the ACGME for giving me false hope and leading me on during this whole fruitless and useless exercise.

The problem is you are placing none of the blame on yourself.

The ACGME did not lead you on at all (aside from slow response times, which are unavoidable). The lawyer's response was completely appropriate.

 

[DocDanny]

I still don't know why the OP cares so much.

According to his profile, he got his fellowship.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I just don't understand why you are blaming me instead of placing at least a portion of the blame on the ACGME for giving me false hope and leading me on during this whole fruitless and useless exercise.

I doubt that the initial point person for communication with residents has ANY authority to say what is or isn't an appropriate issue for them to address. If they turned away a resident with a legitimate complaint by mistake, it would be a huge problem. That's the point of the whole process, to investigate submitted concerns and complaints and determine their merit. So the point person tried to clarify with you the difference between a "concern" and a "complaint" and advise you on which avenue to seek, but was not going to tell you to take no any action.

What Ms. Dunlap's email was trying to tell you is that by filing your issue as a "complaint", it would automatically be seen as an "aggressive attack" against your program. The ACGME would notify the program that the complaint would be investigated and their accreditation was at risk. For sure, you would not be told anything about the findings. If filed as a "concern", the program's accreditation would not be at risk. There was some chance that the program would change something, or talk to you about the situation. But regardless, the process remains confidential between the program and the ACGME. Ms. Dunlap was simply suggesting that by using the concern process, there was more of a chance that the ACGME inquiry might result in the program reviewing your case with you.

This.

OP I did read Ms. Dunlap's email. She said that the concern process would have a possibility of getting you the answers you wanted. She never said that the ACGME would give you those answers in the form of revealing their conversation with the program.

Synonyms for "allege" include...

You left out an important definition and synonym:

"An assertion by implication regarded as unsupportable"

synonym "accuse"

 

[Law2Doc]

1. The issues you have aren't really what the ACGME is designed to police. You get evaluated by folks in your program. Thats true in every program. You don't have a right to have them removed if you don't like them, and don't have a right (or a need) to respond unless this presents an issue with continuing your residency. It's rare for a resident to never get something negative written over the course of 3-5 years, but most of the time it doesn't present any hurdles. If it does present an issue the PD feels you need to sit down and discuss with him he will, or if it requires program action you will get an opportunity to respond, you will, otherwise it just sits in your folder. The ACGME is okay with this form of review process and won't get involved with this unless you don't ever get to see any feedback or don't get to meet with your PD at least biannually, or don't get a chance to respond before they take a program action, put you on probation, kick you out, etc.

2. The ACGME highlighted for you that this isn't like a proper item for a Complaint and phrased it as a concern, which the representative hinted that was more likely to help others in the future than you specifically. She certainly didn't promise you that you would be involved in or share in the communications.

3. Dealing with multiple organizations always takes months. This is part of the reason this was more likely to benefit folks in the future rather than you.

4. Time to move on. You aren't even in the residency any more. You will need paperwork from your residency every time you apply for licensure, board certification, some jobs. Best not to antagonize them.

5. I don't know what you thought was going to happen here. You had a concern, the ACGME raised it for you. Maybe the program fixes their process, maybe it doesn't. It was never designed to help you personally. You aren't complaining about your program falling short on any ACGME requirements, just that you don't like what's in your jacket. Yes, it took months for someone to point that out to you, because you are dealing with big organizations that have things actually within their obligations to deal with first. They as a courtesy had a lawyer look stuff over and get back to you. You need to just thank them for at least looking into this and get on with your life.

 

[zihuatanejo]

Originally Posted by southernIM
OP I did read Ms. Dunlap's email. She said that the concern process would have a possibility of getting you the answers you wanted. She never said that the ACGME would give you those answers in the form of revealing their conversation with the program.

Is it not sort of an oxymoron to argue that the ACGME procuring responses from the program that answer my questions and then passing on that information to me is different than them "revealing their conversation" with the program? How esle would they pass on this information to me without in some way "revealing" at least a portion of their communication with the program? I think I understood AProgDirector's post, which (no offense intended) was much more cogent than yours. He stated that the residency program might actually choose to reveal this information directly to me through a concern process but that all communications between the residency program and the ACGME are confidential. This is not made clear in Amy Dunlap's email. I don't know why you are trying to argue otherwise.

I also find it interesting that you dig out a synonym for "allege" that supports your view of things but seemingly are not willing to consider viewpoints different than yours. I don't know if you know this but words can have different synonyms and different meanings that depend on the context.

 

[zihuatanejo]

The problem is you are placing none of the blame on yourself.

The ACGME did not lead you on at all (aside from slow response times, which are unavoidable). The lawyer's response was completely appropriate.

I am still waiting for you to provide to us what you described as readily available information indicating "the ACGME was not going to be helpful." Can you please enlighten us and provide a link to this information?

 

[deleted103644]

I am still waiting for you to provide to us what you described as readily available information indicating "the ACGME was not going to be helpful." Can you please enlighten us and provide a link to this information?

Read the information available on their website.

I'm guessing you are not a native speaker and are getting tripped up by subtleties in the English language.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

How esle would they pass on this information to me without in some way "revealing" at least a portion of their communication with the program?

When did they say that they would reveal any portion of their communication with the program?

I think I understood AProgDirector's post, which (no offense intended) was much more cogent than yours. He stated that the residency program might actually choose to reveal this information directly to me through a concern process but that all communications between the residency program and the ACGME are confidential. This is not made clear in Amy Dunlap's email.

That is exactly what I took away from Amy Dunlap's email.

 

[zihuatanejo]

1. The issues you have aren't really what the ACGME is designed to police. You get evaluated by folks in your program. Thats true in every program. You don't have a right to have them removed if you don't like them, and don't have a right (or a need) to respond unless this presents an issue with continuing your residency. It's rare for a resident to never get something negative written over the course of 3-5 years, but most of the time it doesn't present any hurdles. If it does present an issue the PD feels you need to sit down and discuss with him he will, or if it requires program action you will get an opportunity to respond, you will, otherwise it just sits in your folder. The ACGME is okay with this form of review process and won't get involved with this unless you don't ever get to see any feedback or don't get to meet with your PD at least biannually, or don't get a chance to respond before they take a program action, put you on probation, kick you out, etc.

2. The ACGME highlighted for you that this isn't like a proper item for a Complaint and phrased it as a concern, which the representative hinted that was more likely to help others in the future than you specifically. She certainly didn't promise you that you would be involved in or share in the communications.

3. Dealing with multiple organizations always takes months. This is part of the reason this was more likely to benefit folks in the future rather than you.

4. Time to move on. You aren't even in the residency any more. You will need paperwork from your residency every time you apply for licensure, board certification, some jobs. Best not to antagonize them.

5. I don't know what you thought was going to happen here. You had a concern, the ACGME raised it for you. Maybe the program fixes their process, maybe it doesn't. It was never designed to help you personally. You aren't complaining about your program falling short on any ACGME requirements, just that you don't like what's in your jacket. Yes, it took months for someone to point that out to you, because you are dealing with big organizations that have things actually within their obligations to deal with first. They as a courtesy had a lawyer look stuff over and get back to you. You need to just thank them for at least looking into this and get on with your life.

I appreciate your post. You make some good points. I was not interested in a "lawyer looking things over as a courtesy." I was interested in achieving results such as hopefully getting the residency program to answer the questions that I had posed to them and which they chose to ignore and getting the ACGME to take a look at the residency feedback process at my former residency program, which was lacking in this particular instance. I didn't expect to achieve everything I desired and I never had high hopes that the negative comment would be removed from my summative evaluation. My main goal was to prevent current and future residents at my former residency program from facing the same situation that I had faced. My main frustration with the ACGME is two-fold. One, I understand they are busy but getting periodic updates indicating that they have not forgotten about me would have been helpful. I don't think that is unreasonable. Not getting a response or update for up to two months at a time is problematic in my opinion. With the passage of time, it gets harder to remember and address problems that occurred in the past.

My second problem with the ACGME is that the response I got from their lawyer is something I could have gotten 3 months earlier when I initially contacted the ACGME. I already knew that the program stood by their decision because I had already appealed that decision within the institution before approaching the ACGME, and I never really had high hopes that they would change their decision. If I knew beforehand that I would waste this much time and energy and experience this much aggravation to get a response from the ACGME lawyer that was underwhelming to say the least, I would not have bothered pursuing this matter. The secretiveness of the whole process also bothers me. What do the residency programs have to hide if they are doing the right thing? Whose side is the ACGME on? It seems that they are on the side of residency programs given the fact that they are not willing to reveal the results of any of their communications with residency programs even if it indicates that a residency program had acted inappropriately. I am also astounded that a residency progam could get away with as much stonewalling as my residency program engaged in. My residency program was not even willing to answer factual questions that I had posed to them such as whether the attending who wrote the evaluation in question had in fact even observed my performance pertaining to the particular domains or competencies in question.

I am also not convinced that the ACGME actually did anything about what they acknowledged to be a possible problem with the feedback process regarding residency evaluations. Their response does not address this point at all.

 

[zihuatanejo]

Read the information available on their website.

I'm guessing you are not a native speaker and are getting tripped up by subtleties in the English language.

Hey Jackass, why are you getting defensive? Do you resort to insults when someone calls your bluff? So being a non-native speaker of English is now an insult in your opinion. You are probably a racist and insecure redneck hillbilly who likes to feel superior to immigrants and non-native speakers of English.

Your posturing and macho act are laughable. Take your act somewhere else bozo and leave this thread for people who want to make constructive comments.

 

[deleted103644]

Hey Jackass, why are you getting defensive? Do you resort to insults when someone calls your bluff? So being a non-native speaker of English is now an insult in your opinion. You are probably a racist and insecure redneck hillbilly who likes to feel superior to immigrants and non-native speakers of English.

Your posturing and macho act are laughable. Take your act somewhere else bozo and leave this thread for people who want to make constructive comments.

I did not meant it as an insult at all, actually.

As a non-native speaker, you will have a much harder time navigating situations like this. You misinterpreted something and are now blaming others - this is the wrong approach. It will affect your career negatively in the future.

 

[smq123]

As a reminder, please keep it civil. No name calling, no insults. Just because you don't agree with someone's post, please still keep it polite.

Thanks.

 

[142348]

To the OP,

You need to simmer down. Anyone who disagrees with you, you end up taking shots at them without considering their points, which for the most part have been valid. And I dont think the previous poster mean any offense; reading your posts could lead people to believe that English was not your first language and therefore, your comprehension of the situation may less than native English speakers.

You have an expectation that the ACGME owed it to you to send periodic updates. Why? Do you fund the ACGME or provide it with any compensation? It is an organization designed to police residency programs as a whole not address issues such as yours. It is pretty clear from my assessment of the acgme website : http://acgme.org/acWebsite/newsRoom/newsRm_acGlance.asp what they are focusing on. You graduated residency and are in fellowship, why continue to drag out a petty beef you seem to have? Get over it, finish your fellowship and start a successful career. Your attitude in this thread and your own descriptions of your interactions with the ACGME are pretty scary, not sure if I would want you on the same staff I work on.

 

[zihuatanejo]

I did not meant it as an insult at all, actually.

As a non-native speaker, you will have a much harder time navigating situations like this. You misinterpreted something and are now blaming others - this is the wrong approach. It will affect your career negatively in the future.

I am really galled by your condescending and patronizing attitude. I generally don't believe in pulling rank. But shouldn't you wait until you finish medical school first before you try to offer advice to someone who has already completed residency? I will try to be gentle. Your views and opinions are worthless and not helpful in my opinion. Your patronizing and condescending attitude is also not helpful. Do you really believe that I did not review the information on the ACGME website before I approached them? Tell me what information is on the ACGME website that would clearly indicate that the ACGME was clearly not going to be helpful in my case as you had previously asserted. If your conclusion of the ACGME not being helpful in my case was so patently clear from the beginning, why did the ACGME decide to proceed with a resident concern process rather than simply informing me that they could not address my particular concern based on some factors or criteria that are clearly delineated on their website?

I also don't buy it for one second that you did not mean to insult me when you made a completely unwarranted and unnecessary comment about me being a non-native English speaker. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[zihuatanejo]

To the OP,

You need to simmer down. Anyone who disagrees with you, you end up taking shots at them without considering their points, which for the most part have been valid. And I dont think the previous poster mean any offense; reading your posts could lead people to believe that English was not your first language and therefore, your comprehension of the situation may less than native English speakers.

You have an expectation that the ACGME owed it to you to send periodic updates. Why? Do you fund the ACGME or provide it with any compensation? It is an organization designed to police residency programs as a whole not address issues such as yours. It is pretty clear from my assessment of the acgme website : http://acgme.org/acWebsite/newsRoom/newsRm_acGlance.asp what they are focusing on. You graduated residency and are in fellowship, why continue to drag out a petty beef you seem to have? Get over it, finish your fellowship and start a successful career. Your attitude in this thread and your own descriptions of your interactions with the ACGME are pretty scary, not sure if I would want you on the same staff I work on.

Look, who said I wanted to work with you either? It just amazes me how egocentric some of the posters on SDN are. Call me scary, call me non-native speaker of English, or call me whatever you wish. I frankly could not care less about your opinion or anyone else's opinion of me on this forum. I just got an infraction for calling someone a Jackass in response to him clearly insulting me by making a completely unwarranted and unnecessary statement about me being a non-native speaker of English who therefore could not understand the subtleties of the English language. I wonder if he got an infraction for his inflammatory and racist post that I responded to or does SDN tolerate racists and bigots? I will terminate my relationship with SDN effective immediately. There is no good that will come out of having interactions with the likes of some of the people who frequent this forum. Have fun picking on other non-native speakers of English who frequent this forum. Don't forget to attend a Klan rally and burn a cross along the way.

 

[deleted103644]

I am really galled by your condescending and patronizing attitude. I generally don't believe in pulling rank. But shouldn't you wait until you finish medical school first before you try to offer advice to someone who has already completed residency?

Who says I'm still in medical school? I don't update details on SDN. You should also refrain from getting personal or you might receive a warning.

I also don't buy it for one second that you did not mean to insult me when you made a completely unwarranted and unnecessary comment about me being a non-native English speaker. What does that have to do with anything?

There are patterns in your posts that revealed you as a non-native speaker which means you may miss subtle points in the language. This is not a slight on your intelligence, just a limitation you should be aware of when you are dealing with situations like this.

You should really calm down.

 

[zihuatanejo]

Who says I'm still in medical school? I don't update details on SDN. You should also refrain from getting personal or you might receive a warning.



There are patterns in your posts that revealed you as a non-native speaker which means you may miss subtle points in the language. This is not a slight on your intelligence, just a limitation you should be aware of when you are dealing with situations like this.

You should really calm down.

I don't know what you are talking about. Instead of speaking in generalities, can you provide specific examples of "subtle points in the language" that I have missed and how those misses constitute "limitations" that I should be aware of when "dealing with situations like this." How did those "misses" indicate to you that I was a non-native speaker of English? You must have some abilities that I am not aware of.

 

[DocDanny]

Your english skills are pertinent to this conversation. You seem to have misunderstood what the description on their website mentions. Additionally, you misunderstood what was these individuals were trying to say in their emails to you. These are not personal attacks against you. I'm a native English speaker, and it's noticeable. It is subtle, but it's there.

Additionally, I think you need to take a deep breath and step back. You come across as a nasty little pissant cuss. You do not need to go for the throat of everyone who disagrees with you. Not everyone is out to get you.

Enjoy your fellowship!

 

[deleted103644]

It's mainly stylistic issues and your debate about the definitions of various words.

Also, going to accusations of racism and bigotry so quickly is a crutch. I have nothing against people who do not speak English natively - some of the most brilliant people I know fall in that category, I just would not want them drafting or interpreting legal documents for me.

(Or interpreting minutiae of the bylaws of various organizations.)

 

[zihuatanejo]

Your english skills are pertinent to this conversation. You seem to have misunderstood what the description on their website mentions. Additionally, you misunderstood what was these individuals were trying to say in their emails to you. These are not personal attacks against you. I'm a native English speaker, and it's noticeable. It is subtle, but it's there.

Additionally, I think you need to take a deep breath and step back. You come across as a nasty little pissant cuss. You do not need to go for the throat of everyone who disagrees with you. Not everyone is out to get you.

Enjoy your fellowship!

Again, provide specific examples to support your assertions or opinions. I did not misunderstand anything that was said in the emails sent to me. Perhaps I had a different interpretation of what was said than what the writer intended. Perhaps, the writer was not completely clear in what they were stating and their statements could be interpreted in different ways. That does not mean I did not understand what was said. Frankly, I don't understand why posters on SDN often harp on this point of someone being a non-native speaker of English and use it to feel superior about themselves. I assure you that being a non-native speaker of English is not the main issue here. Also, asking someone to explain the basis for their opinions and assertions is not the same as "jumping down someone's throat."

 

[zihuatanejo]

It's mainly stylistic issues and your debate about the definitions of various words.

Also, going to accusations of racism and bigotry so quickly is a crutch. I have nothing against people who do not speak English natively - some of the most brilliant people I know fall in that category, I just would not want them drafting or interpreting legal documents for me.

(Or interpreting minutiae of the bylaws of various organizations.)

This is one of the most incoherent posts that I have ever read on SDN. May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[deleted103644]

This is one of the most incoherent posts that I have ever read on SDN. May God have mercy on your soul.

Well, at least you've seen Billy Madison...

 

[smq123]

Ok.

Since some of the posters in this thread are unable to calm down and discuss things in a professional way, the thread is being closed.