Acls

[Cheisu]

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Me again. I was just wondering. I bought a book on ACLS, and this may seem like a dumb question, I know it would be good for a doctor to know ACLS, but do the doctors actually do it often, or do they just tell the nurse, "another round of ACLS" or something like that, and the nurses do it?

Just wondering.

 

[plouffes]

Me again. I was just wondering. I bought a book on ACLS, and this may seem like a dumb question, I know it would be good for a doctor to know ACLS, but do the doctors actually do it often, or do they just tell the nurse, "another round of ACLS" or something like that, and the nurses do it?

Just wondering.

I would imagine your facility would require that you are ACLS certified. I would say that it is imperative that you know ACLS, especially as a surgical intern/resident.

Depending on the type of facility, teaching vs. small, community hospital, where the CPR occurs in the hospital, the unit vs. the floor, that will influence your role in ACLS. In my facility, a large teaching hospital, in the units, nurses run many of the codes, until a resident arrives. On the floor, a CPR team responds (nurses from our unit) and it is paged over head. Nurses run the code until residents arrive. Hope this helps.

 

[Cheisu]

I'm not a med student yet. I'm a Sophomore in high school lol

 

[Winged Scapula]

You are required to be ACLS certified.

As a surgery resident, you will most likely be also required to have ATLS certification. Other specialties might require PALS, and other certifications.

Most hospitals have a "code team" - this may consist of IM and EM physicians, Anesthesiologists, etc. It is entirely hospital dependent. However, even if you are not on the Code Team, there may come a day when you are standing in a patient's room and they code. No waiting for the team.

Someone "runs" the code; someone is adminstering medications under the direction of the person running the code; other people are participating by doing CPR, intubating the patient, perhaps starting a central or peripheral line, etc. These roles are less clearly defined and the physician may be doing any of of those.

ICU nurses are often running codes until a physician or code team arrives. At that point, the physician generally takes over, orders "another round of ACLS" until the patient recovers or it is decided to call the code.

 

[Cheisu]

The book I bought was titled "ACLS Study Guide (third edition)" by Barbara Aehlert, RN, BSPA.

 

[Winged Scapula]

The book I bought was titled "ACLS Study Guide (third edition)" by Barbara Aehlert, RN, BSPA.

I see Barbara has written a lot of ACLS books. This is the "official one" we're tested from (frm the AHA):

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Card...5691250?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194825191&sr=1-1

 

[Cheisu]

I see Barbara has written a lot of ACLS books. This is the "official one" we're tested from (frm the AHA):

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Card...5691250?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194825191&sr=1-1

Is mine still good tho? It's pretty detailed. And it's not really time for me to get ACLS certified yet. I'm only a sophomore in high school and I'm not even allowed to take EMT until i turn 17 (i'm 16 right now, i turn 17 september 14th. Becuase I'm thinking about doing EMT while I'm in college, then stopping when it's time for med school. Or probably actually doing SOMETHING in-hospital. I'm positive I want to work in hospital, not in field.

 

[Cheisu]

BTW Kimberly, do you know of any certifications I could get right now? I'm already BLS certified (got 100% on the written test, piece of cake)

 

[Winged Scapula]

I dunno...I haven't read her book.

The thing to remember is that the protocols do change so dont' get too much into memorizing the algorithms if you are intent on studying for this now. They will be different, different drugs, etc. by the time you are ready to take the exam.

 

[Cheisu]

I dunno...I haven't read her book.

The thing to remember is that the protocols do change so dont' get too much into memorizing the algorithms if you are intent on studying for this now. They will be different, different drugs, etc. by the time you are ready to take the exam.

Very true though. I am just kind of interested in reading about it right now. I'm sure SOME of the stuff will remain the same, and still can be used (such as Atropine being the first drug given for symptomatic Bradycardia.

 

[surgeon2b forev]

first learn your basical cardiac life support before you start worrying about ACLS!

 

[Winged Scapula]

first learn your basical cardiac life support before you start worrying about ACLS!

He says in post #8 he is already BCLS certified.

 

[dynx]

Me again. I was just wondering. I bought a book on ACLS, and this may seem like a dumb question, I know it would be good for a doctor to know ACLS, but do the doctors actually do it often, or do they just tell the nurse, "another round of ACLS" or something like that, and the nurses do it?

Just wondering.

👍I have a new line for my admission orders:

ACLS PRN asystole or apnea, repeat PRN
Hold for Hearbeat or spontaneous respiration
Page H.O. If pt. still dead after three rounds.

 

[Blade28]

ACLS guidelines change every few years (or at least has done so in the recent past). I wouldn't worry about this until at least college, or if you ever become an EMT/paramedic.

Please don't worry about this kind of stuff now. I mean, seriously.

Besides, do you really want to be running codes at this stage? I'd be terrified of running a code unless I were at least an intern with a few months' experience under my belt.

Cheisu, again...you have 2.5+ years of high school left, followed by 4+ years of college and 4 years of med school. That's at least 10 more years until residency. Take it easy.

 

[-Goose-]

He paid money for an ACLS book. And he read it.

You know, when I was sixteen, I was hiding behind the Burger King across the street from my school in the mornings, drinking rum we paid the homeless dude to buy for us.

We must have gone to the same school. Sounds very familiar. 🙄

 

[Blade28]

He paid money for an ACLS book. And he read it.

You know, when I was sixteen, I was hiding behind the Burger King across the street from my school in the mornings, drinking rum we paid the homeless dude to buy for us.

I was too busy chasing girls to worry about (1) ACLS, (2) Burger King, or (3) homeless dudes.

And by "chasing," I really mean chasing. As in they were running away from me. And I ran after them. With scissors in my hands.

 

[SLUser11]

Also, I'm only going to be able to resist making fun of you for your myspace page for another day or so.

It's tough, isn't it? Maybe one of the hardest things I've ever done.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Also, I'm only going to be able to resist making fun of you for your myspace page for another day or so.

😱

Seriously, not to poke fun at your MySpace page or anything, but you may wanna tone down the Evil Sorcerer/Wiccan/Witchcraft stuff prior to your college applications. Unless, of course, you're thinking of meeting the admission quota for witches at Indiana State... 🙂

 

[Blade28]

What MySpace page?

Wait, do you need to be registered to view those pages? Because I refuse to register.

 

[Winged Scapula]

What MySpace page?

Wait, do you need to be registered to view those pages? Because I refuse to register.

No, just click on the link in his User profile and it will take you there.

I agree...college admissions committees do look for applicant pages and the Wiccan stuff will probably turn off most of them.

 

[Playmakur42]

.

 

[yaah]

What MySpace page?

Wait, do you need to be registered to view those pages? Because I refuse to register.

That's wise. I registered once because a friend wanted me to see her page. I then started getting "friend requests" (bear in mind all I have done is register) from people who were mostly (I think) young women who wanted people to visit their site. I then cancelled my account and sent myspace an email asking them to stop sending me emails and friend requests. I still continue to get friend requests, usually a couple every week. I am waiting to hear back from them again from my latest complaint.

In regards to ACLS, it borders on pointless to start studying for it. When you take the course they give you material to read and study. By the time you need to take it it seems far less exciting. And no one will require you to take it until you actually do need it, so don't bother. It isn't going to give you an advantage in applying to med school.

 

[Cheisu]

No, just click on the link in his User profile and it will take you there.

I agree...college admissions committees do look for applicant pages and the Wiccan stuff will probably turn off most of them.

Since when is being Wiccan a bad thing?

 

[Castro Viejo]

Since when is being Wiccan a bad thing?

No one said bad.

It's just not mainstream and the world wants mainstream and adores mainstream. When someone on one of these committes gets a hold of your MySpace page (unlikely, but trust me as someone who's been an admissions officer, they snoop around on SDN, MySpace, Facebook, and all that other nonsense) and sees that you practice a religion that's widely believed to be on the fringes of society, you'll be labelled "weird," "odd," and probably not someone they'd want in their institution.

Being young allows you the latitude to sort of experiment and read up on this kind of stuff, but as you age and become more enveloped in your career, you'll see that people generally have little tolerance for this kind of thing. Especially in medicine as a physician. And doubly especially in the world of ultra-conservative surgery. I don't know if you've realized this, but surgeons are probably much more conservative a group than your regular old doctor and this Wiccan stuff will make you a bit of an outcast.

But it's not bad. Just really, really, really different.

 

[Cheisu]

No one said bad.

It's just not mainstream and the world wants mainstream and adores mainstream. When someone on one of these committes gets a hold of your MySpace page (unlikely, but trust me as someone who's been an admissions officer, they snoop around on SDN, MySpace, Facebook, and all that other nonsense) and sees that you practice a religion that's widely believed to be on the fringes of society, you'll be labelled "weird," "odd," and probably not someone they'd want in their institution.

Being young allows you the latitude to sort of experiment and read up on this kind of stuff, but as you age and become more enveloped in your career, you'll see that people generally have little tolerance for this kind of thing. Especially in medicine as a physician. And doubly especially in the world of ultra-conservative surgery. I don't know if you've realized this, but surgeons are probably much more conservative a group than your regular old doctor and this Wiccan stuff will make you a bit of an outcast.

But it's not bad. Just really, really, really different.

Not really. Most surgeons are Atheists. Atheism is not conservative.

I would think christian surgeons would be worse. "Oh, well he sins, he deserved to die, and should burn in hell." I can just hear it now.

It's not a fringe. Wicca is a loving religion. Only those ignorant enough to label it as a "fringe of society" would be against it.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Not really. Most surgeons are Atheists. Atheism is not conservative.

I would think christian surgeons would be worse. "Oh, well he sins, he deserved to die, and should burn in hell." I can just hear it now.

It's not a fringe. Wicca is a loving religion. Only those ignorant enough to label it as a "fringe of society" would be against it.

According to some article in a throw-away journal (Surgical Rounds, Contemporary Surgery, etc.) or one of the surgical newspapers (General Surgery News or something like that), surgeons tend to be more spiritual (i.e., of the Judeo-Christian tradition) than other types of physicians. So you'd be wrong in presuming that most surgeons are atheists.

OK, I'm ignorant. But it's still a fringe religion.

 

[smq123]

Not really. Most surgeons are Atheists. Atheism is not conservative.

Where did you get this impression? Was it on a Grey's Anatomy episode? 😉

I would think christian surgeons would be worse. "Oh, well he sins, he deserved to die, and should burn in hell." I can just hear it now.

Actually, most physicians can be Christians and still provide good care. It has nothing to do with being a Christina - as long as you can separate your personal beliefs from what your patients need, you'll be fine.

It's not a fringe. Wicca is a loving religion. Only those ignorant enough to label it as a "fringe of society" would be against it.

"Loving" religion does not equal "mainstream" religion. It's not practiced by a large number of people, so it qualifies as "fringe of society," whether you like it or not.

While you want to be present yourself as a unique applicant (for college, med school, and residency), there are good ways and bad ways of doing that. Presenting yourself as a fervent practitioner of a poorly-understood (and somewhat frequently mocked) religion is not a good way.

 

[Blade28]

Not really. Most surgeons are Atheists. Atheism is not conservative.

I don't think this is true.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not much to add to what the others have said but since I made the comment about not mentioning Wicca I figured I would.

I never said Wicca was bad; I don't know enough about it to qualify it as such (or as good, for that matter). But it is unusual in the sense that it is not followed by a good number of people and in medicine, especially surgery, unusual is NOT what you want.

Heck, the US population won't accept a Mormon president because its considered "weird" in many circles. A friend of my parents was arguing that if Mit Romney were to win, he'd legalize polygamy. When I drolly remarked that the only Republican candidate that had been married to ONLY 1 woman was Romney, they tried to argue that was true of their beloved Rudy. Just like Guiliani, they've conveniently forgot his past behavior.

Anyway, my point is that adults in the US are fairly conservative for the most part, medicine is conservative and surgery of of the MOST conservative branches of medicine. Being different, even as a member of a loving religion, is not good.

And I would be doubtful that "most" surgeons are atheists. I'm sure some are and many would categorize themselves as agnostic. Surgeons are fairly representative of the general population, matched for age, gender and socioeconomic status. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority are Judeochristian.

We weren't trying to knock you for your beliefs only to make you see that many in our society (ie, surgery) do not accept alternative choices in life:

Long hair? It might work in some fields (ie, trauma), but you'd better cut it.

Birkenstocks or flannel with your scrubs? This isn't Family Medicine.

Facial hair? We'd rather not, but if you're old and look like Santa, we'll allow it or if you're overcompensating for some other shortcomings, ok. But keep it nicely trimmed.

Lip or eyebrow piercings? Not at work my friend.

Tattoos? Only in places covered by scrubs, thank you.

Female? The law says we have to take you AND make you feel welcome, so ok...c'mon in (but we won't necessarily like it).

Espousing fringe religious or social beliefs? Keep it to yourself please.

Gay, Lesbian or Transgender? Don't ask, don't tell...it worked for the military, eh?

 

[Blade28]

Heck, the US population won't accept a Mormon president because its considered "weird" in many circles.

BTW, it was a scandal when JFK (a Catholic) was elected, as every other president has been Protestant!

 

[Winged Scapula]

BTW, it was a scandal when JFK (a Catholic) was elected, as every other president has been Protestant!

True; I remember hearing that as well.

Even just a few years ago when Lieberman was running there were people with a problem that a Jewish man was in the mix.🙄

 

[SocialistMD]

I would think christian surgeons would be worse. "Oh, well he sins, he deserved to die, and should burn in hell." I can just hear it now.

I've heard many non-religious surgeons who don't believe in hell say basically the same thing.

I still can't figure out if you are a troll or not, but I don't think I was ever this annoying in my entire life. You assume a lot about adults, particularly those you come to for advice (the posters on this forum). I don't discourage your questions, but I do have a little advice for you on your road to become a surgeon.

1. I suggest you either develop or start to use that edit button inside your head that makes you think about what you say prior to laying out the diarrhea you sometimes post here. Surgeons like to hear well-thought out, concise ideas and plans.

2. You need to become a more critical reader if you plan to be a surgeon. Going off half-cocked about something when you misread or misheard something will only make you look like an idiot to any surgeon.

3. You need to respect the statements and opinions of others, even if you don't agree with them. There is something to be learned in what everyone says and people who have "been there and done that" usually have a better perspective on things than you do with your experience based on your favorite Thursday night show.

4. You need to learn to have thicker skin. You can't let the words of others fluster you into starting a war of words, or you will drown in the world of surgery. You need to be less defensive and to become a duck, letting the insults of others slide off your back like water, only taking the message and the experience of what to do next time sink in.

In truth, these are life lessons. I inserted "surgeon" into each, but could have just said "person," as surgeons, while having a higher standard for themselves than the general population, do not deserve any higher regard than Joe Blow off the street. Learning these things early is far more important than knowing the PEA arrest algorithm.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Not really. Most surgeons are Atheists. Atheism is not conservative.

Although already asked, I've gotta know: where did you get the impression that "most surgeons are atheists?"

Do you think surgeons are too "un-feeling" to believe in a higher being, especially the Judeo-Christian God? Do you think surgeons have no emotion? That they aren't human?

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard things in the OR or in the SICU where a surgeon will say something to the effect that he's done everything he can and now it'll be up to God to decide whether or not the patient survives. While this isn't proof, my observation of attendings in my program is that the vast majority of them are spiritual in some sense and I believe, to a limited extent, in my own limitations and what I've been trained to do and sometimes have to be comfortable with the idea that I can't control everything (although I really, really want to) -- especially outcomes.

And if that doesn't do it for you, what about the times where I've heard these things in the OR?

"Jesus F-ing Christ, Viejo, what the hell did you do that for?"

"Not so much tension when you're tying. No so much god damn tension!"

"I'm gonna pray that you figure out where the F- the bleeding is coming from."

😀 Residency's great, huh?

 

[Winged Scapula]

My favorite:

"Good Lord, where'd you learn to do that/tie like that/sew?"

Another attending of mine always used to say (when moonlighting at the local Catholic hospital): "Jesus Mary Joseph why are you always calling me from the ED in the middle of the god damn night?"

 

[Castro Viejo]

My favorite:

"Good Lord, where'd you learn to do that/tie like that/sew?"

Another attending of mine always used to say (when moonlighting at the local Catholic hospital): "Jesus Mary Joseph why are you always calling me from the ED in the middle of the god damn night?"

Surgeons have such a great sense of humor. 😍