ACPM vote

[newfeet]

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ACPM sent out the email to vote to amend the bylaws requirement that fellows also be a part of the APMA. I voted for removal of the APMA requirement. And yes I saw the ABPM response to the possible change. I think it’s a good move.

 

[Feli]

ABPM doesn't exist... it's one guy writing emails. It's been that way for a year.
It's now that one guy writing emails... and a bunch of new people who were put into place to pretend there still is a board.
I wish they could've gotten the impeach vote, but hey... res ipsa loquitur with the Board of Directors walkout.
He is obviously vested on ACPM requiring APMA and ABPM being a req for ACPM as he gets money and prestige (???) from both APMA and ABPM.
I didn't see ABFAS writing a "duty to inform" letter when ACFAS dropped APMA req.

...This is a good thing. APMA has had way too much power for a long time by requiring schools to pay students' dues, residencies to pay, boards to pay for recognition, practicing podiatrists to pay (if they wanted to be in any "member" orgs). Let people vote with their feet. The value of APMA functions and meetings and journal and whatever - or lacking value thereof - will stand on its own two feet.

If AMPA and their umbrella organizations (paid for with their dues) are going to keep stamping off on bogus residencies with subpar training and giving blessing to new podiatry schools without quality job market or quality residencies, they will probably continue to lose funding and power. I see nothing wrong with that. Maybe if people aren't forced to join APMA, the APMA will actually have to provide some value to people besides associate mill owners, deans and faculty, "leaders," "corporate partners"... people such as the remaining 95% of their membership who simply work and want good compensation and demand for their service and better job options and job quality. 🙂

 

[newfeet]

ABPM doesn't exist... it's one guy writing emails. It's been that way for a year.
It's now that one guy and a bunch of new people who were put into place.
I wish they could've gotten the impeach vote, but hey... res ipsa loquitur with the Board of Directors walkout.
He is obviously vested there as he gets money and prestige (???) from both APMA and ABPM.
I didn't see ABFAS writing a "duty to inform" letter when ACFAS dropped APMA req.

...This is a good thing. APMA has had way too much power for a long time by requiring schools to pay students' dues, residencies to pay, boards to pay for recognition, practicing podiatrists to pay (if they wanted to be in any "member" orgs).

If AMPA and their umbrella organizations (paid for with their dues) are going to keep stamping off on bogus residencies with subpar training and giving blessing to new podiatry schools without quality job market or quality residencies, they will probably continue to lose funding and power. I see nothing wrong with that. Maybe if people aren't forced to join APMA, the APMA will actually have to provide some value to people besides associate mill owners, deans and faculty, "leaders," "corporate partners"... people such as the remaining 95% of their membership who simply work and want good compensation and demand for their service and better job options and job quality. 🙂

I dropped APMA right after I voted. I might join again but I need a break from their fees. Hopefully this goes through.

 

[deleted285117]

Dropping my state association this year (in which the dues are linked to APMA). What a waste of cash.

Also, I voted yes to the change. Hoping to have more ACPM members now that APMA requirement is dropped and ABFAS members can now be fellows. Good move, ACPM.

 

[newfeet]

Dropping my state association this year (in which the dues are linked to APMA). What a waste of cash.

Also, I voted yes to the change. Hoping to have more ACPM members now that APMA requirement is dropped and ABFAS members can now be fellows. Good move, ACPM.

The fact that ABPM sent an email say APMA might start another college is weird. Was ASPS ever a hit?

 

[heybrother]

All of this board drama is just silly. The only reason I'm an ACPM member is because I have to get my points for ABPM. The only reason I'm an ABPM member is because I have to be board certified in something to keep surgical priviledges and ABFAS certifies sub-30% rearfoot and maybe 50% of people for foot. So my office pays my ABFAS yearly dues, I pay my ABPM dues and ACPM dues. It turns out we are paying APMA dues when we pay state dues even though APMA comes and clowns around on this forum.

Meanwhile we're dropping health insurance for our staff and just trying to stay in business in a world of collapsing revenue and increasing prices.

 

[Feli]

...Meanwhile we're dropping health insurance for our staff and just trying to stay in business in a world of collapsing revenue and increasing prices.

I do always get a smile out of how the people with cleverly-named-but-terrible-to-deal-with MCR advantage plans always think they have greaaat insurance and are amazed it didn't cover 100% of the visit/dme/surgery/whatever.

 

[newfeet]

All of this board drama is just silly. The only reason I'm an ACPM member is because I have to get my points for ABPM. The only reason I'm an ABPM member is because I have to be board certified in something to keep surgical priviledges and ABFAS certifies sub-30% rearfoot and maybe 50% of people for foot. So my office pays my ABFAS yearly dues, I pay my ABPM dues and ACPM dues. It turns out we are paying APMA dues when we pay state dues even though APMA comes and clowns around on this forum.

Meanwhile we're dropping health insurance for our staff and just trying to stay in business in a world of collapsing revenue and increasing prices.

I have ACPM for the points too. Is ABPM going to change the points system if ACPM dump APMA?

 

[heybrother]

I do always get a smile out of how the people with cleverly-named-but-terrible-to-deal-with MCR advantage plans always think they have greaaat insurance and are amazed it didn't cover 100% of the visit/dme/surgery/whatever.

I was told by patients with Humana over and over again that they had amazing insurance. The first few times it was funny because the patient would say "I have amazing insurance" and I'd check my fee sheet and then open up their chart/insurance to make sure I wasn't missing something. In my brain - "Humana, Amazing, Does not compute". In my area some large employers (hospitals, universities etc) had historically offered their employees some sort of health insurance for life. Those patients are then transitioned onto a MCR plan when previously they were on BCBS or some sort of local boutique employer plan that paid well. And then we the practice and the patient are subjected to the whims of United and their sub-Medicare fee schedules.

I was reading IPED awhile back and a guy from the class below me had written something about patient confusion about the quality of their plans and then advocated for patient's negotiating cash pay with doctors. To me this is one of those situations where patients and doctors interests aren't aligned. The simple truth is - large commercial insurances with terrible fee schedules are "in a patient's interest" until private practice doctors are willing to drop them. Low fee schedules destroy private practice. TMI, I had a vasectomy last year. I asked the urology PA that he thought it would cost. He said probably $1000-1500. They got reimbursed like right at Medicare - like $320-340 bucks. Awesome for me - terrible for them. Had I asked them for a cash fee rate they would assuredly asked for more than I paid.

 

[SouthPod7]

TMI, I had a vasectomy last year.

 

[AttackNME]

What are these points you speak of?

 

[newfeet]

What are these points you speak of?

They are points towards Evidence of Cognitive for the MOC. Watch acpm videos and they count towards Evidence of Cognitive.

 

[Pronation]

Here’s my evidence of cognitive: I’ve dropped all of these clubs

 

[Adam Smasher]

I've wanted to write a longer more thoughtful post about the MOC points, but they always seemed scammy to me. At face value, it's a good idea for diplomates (of any board) to go through activities so they are staying sharp. The problem is ABPM has this unholy alliance with Presents Podiatry and the Superbones type seminars. Those seminars in turn have always had a HEAVY commercial influence. I admit, no lecture endorses any one product. But if you do a presentation on garbage grafts or topical oxygen, it increases the likelihood that the attendee is going to prescribe one of these modalities and mimedx/organogenesis/integra/whatever new company comes along will cash in.

So we are required to either attend an infomercial conference or watch two infomercial lectures online every year just to maintain certification. All these companies make money and we're pawns in the game.

Oviously there are other ways to get your MOC points--get certified in hyperbaric medicine, publish a paper, be a residency director (so you can recruit residents to join the club), but those are not exactly easy things to do.

 

[newfeet]

I've wanted to write a longer more thoughtful post about the MOC points, but they always seemed scammy to me. At face value, it's a good idea for diplomates (of any board) to go through activities so they are staying sharp. The problem is ABPM has this unholy alliance with Presents Podiatry and the Superbones type seminars. Those seminars in turn have always had a HEAVY commercial influence. I admit, no lecture endorses any one product. But if you do a presentation on garbage grafts or topical oxygen, it increases the likelihood that the attendee is going to prescribe one of these modalities and mimedx/organogenesis/integra/whatever new company comes along will cash in.

So we are required to either attend an infomercial conference or watch two infomercial lectures online every year just to maintain certification. All these companies make money and we're pawns in the game.

Oviously there are other ways to get your MOC points--get certified in hyperbaric medicine, publish a paper, be a residency director (so you can recruit residents to join the club), but those are not exactly easy things to do.

That’s why I prefer to do the ACPM lectures. Presents Podiatry is terrible.

 

[air bud]

That’s why I prefer to do the ACPM lectures. Presents Podiatry is terrible.

Get ready for this to be reported!!!!!!!

 

[Adam Smasher]

Presents lectures are good for raw CME/MOC points. Play lecture on phone, walk way to do something productive with your life, come back after an hour, take and retake the 5-question quiz until you get 80%, done. It's a good time killer while you're just stuck someplace, like an airport layover. This year I was eligible for the self-assessment test which I took on an airplane--scored my 72%, yeah!!!

 

[newfeet]

Presents lectures are good for raw CME/MOC points. Play lecture on phone, walk way to do something productive with your life, come back after an hour, take and retake the 5-question quiz until you get 80%, done. It's a good time killer while you're just stuck someplace, like an airport layover. This year I was eligible for the self-assessment test which I took on an airplane--scored my 72%, yeah!!!

I do that with the free wound care CME from HMP.

 

[Poddy2Hotty]

Here’s my evidence of cognitive: I’ve dropped all of these clubs

Ditto.

Now we just need to create a legit SDN club. I would pay dues for that!

 

[diabeticfootdr]

I've wanted to write a longer more thoughtful post about the MOC points, but they always seemed scammy to me. At face value, it's a good idea for diplomates (of any board) to go through activities so they are staying sharp. The problem is ABPM has this unholy alliance with Presents Podiatry and the Superbones type seminars. Those seminars in turn have always had a HEAVY commercial influence. I admit, no lecture endorses any one product.

We don’t have an “unholy alliance.” Any organization giving CMEs can apply to be recognized for MOC points. We don’t charge them to apply. The MOC committee reviews the content and approves or denies.

PRESENT just applied before everyone else and early in the pandemic, they were organized for online education. So they had a head start.

There are many options now.

BTW, PRESENT is approved by CPME to give CECHs (a stupid podiatry acronym for CMEs).

 

[diabeticfootdr]

I have ACPM for the points too. Is ABPM going to change the points system if ACPM dump APMA?

No, we are not changing ACPM’s approval for MOC points. Their educational offerings are very good.

Anyone approved for CMEs (or CECHs) can apply to be recognized for MOC points.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

The fact that ABPM sent an email say APMA might start another college is weird. Was ASPS ever a hit?

APMA is required to have a “clinical affiliate” for Podiatric Medicine and Podiatric Surgery. That’s why they had to create ASPS after the split with ACFAS. So they will have to create another clinical affiliate or designate one for Podiatric Medicine if ACPM drops the requirement.

The point of the email was to inform everyone of that, which isn’t well-understood.

Also, I said we don’t have an official position on it. But to consider it when voting.

But ACPM never disclosed dropping ABPM as a requirement to be a fellow. The membership needed to be informed about that as a significant change before voting.

And, separately, my personal opinion (ABPM has no position on this either) is that the state society membership and national association membership shouldn’t be tied together. MDs don’t have to be a member of the state medical association to be a member of the AMA. They can chose either or both. This was mentioned by someone but it’s not part of any upcoming vote, FYI.

 

[AttackNME]

APMA is required to have a “clinical affiliate” for Podiatric Medicine and Podiatric Surgery. That’s why they had to create ASPS after the split with ACFAS. So they will have to create another clinical affiliate or designate one for Podiatric Medicine if ACPM drops the requirement.

Thanks for sharing, I didn’t know this. But why would they split and why does APMA need a clinical affiliate in both medicine and surgery? At the end of the day why do we need all these organizations? As a podiatrist I’m still confused

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Organizations should be compensated based on their ability to provide solutions and improvements in podiatry. Withholding payment from organizations that fail to provide valuable solutions can serve as a powerful motivator, encouraging them to strive for better outcomes and drive innovation in podiatric care.

 

[billBOB213]

BTW, PRESENT is approved by CPME to give CECHs (a stupid podiatry acronym for CMEs).

THANK YOU. Man I have asked so many people what the heck a ‘CECH’ was, glad we made that up in podiatry [emoji23]

 

[Feli]

Organizations should be compensated based on their ability to provide solutions and improvements in podiatry. Withholding payment from organizations that fail to provide valuable solutions can serve as a powerful motivator, encouraging them to strive for better outcomes and drive innovation in podiatric care.

Yes, this is why you do ACFAS, Podiatry Institute, GTEF, WPFAS, IFAF, AOFAS, and actual quality CME.

I had always wondered when I was in training how some of the joke podiatry "education" and meetings and journals and fake journals that basically make you dumber for having read or attended them stay in business, and the answer is corporate partnership$. I had thought maybe there were that many TFPs who actually bought into those, but it's that they make the those free or cheap and get the money from the sponsors.

... ABPM has this unholy alliance with Presents Podiatry and the Superbones type seminars. Those seminars in turn have always had a HEAVY commercial influence. I admit, no lecture endorses any one product. But if you do a presentation on garbage grafts or topical oxygen, it increases the likelihood that the attendee is going to prescribe one of these modalities and mimedx/organogenesis/integra/whatever new company comes along will cash in.

So we are required to either attend an infomercial conference or watch two infomercial lectures online every year just to maintain certification. All these companies make money and we're pawns in the game...

ding ding ding

 

[Adam Smasher]

PRESENT is approved by CPME to give CECHs

CPME accredited LECOM and re-accredited the SF 69ers. They are not a discerning group.

We don’t have an “unholy alliance.” Any organization giving CMEs can apply to be recognized for MOC points

Even if I give ACPM the benefit of the doubt, as a politician you surely must understand that perception is reality. And the MOC-presents partnership is a bad look.

 

[newfeet]

We don’t have an “unholy alliance.” Any organization giving CMEs can apply to be recognized for MOC points. We don’t charge them to apply. The MOC committee reviews the content and approves or denies.

PRESENT just applied before everyone else and early in the pandemic, they were organized for online education. So they had a head start.

There are many options now.

BTW, PRESENT is approved by CPME to give CECHs (a stupid podiatry acronym for CMEs).

As long as ACPM is still recognized for points I’m good.

End of the day there are too many organizations. I’m dropping some.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Even if I give ACPM the benefit of the doubt, as a politician you surely must understand that perception is reality. And the MOC-presents partnership is a bad look.

1. I think you meant ABPM?

2. What partnership? Any provider of CECHs can apply to have their content reviewed and accepted for MOC points. Should they be blocked as an organization from MOCs and on what grounds?

The ABPM doesn’t charge for this. The ABPM receives no money from PRESENT or any other CECH provider. In fact, we PAY exhibitor fees to those organizations when we are present with a booth.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

THANK YOU. Man I have asked so many people what the heck a ‘CECH’ was, glad we made that up in podiatry [emoji23]

Continuing Education Contact Hours

[emoji2371]

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Thanks for sharing, I didn’t know this. But why would they split and why does APMA need a clinical affiliate in both medicine and surgery? At the end of the day why do we need all these organizations? As a podiatrist I’m still confused

It’s the way the APMA Bylaws are interpreted. That there will be a clinical affiliate for each specialty area of practice.

I agree with you.

 

[Adam Smasher]

What partnership? Any provider of CECHs can apply to have their content reviewed and accepted for MOC points. Should they be blocked as an organization from MOCs and on what grounds?

Partnership may have been the wrong word. Association better? I wouldn't associate with them, on the grounds that they are too deeply in bed with their industry sponsors. Again, maybe we should give presents the benefit of the doubt, things aren't what they appear. But perception is reality.

Meanwhile, there are some really nice programs put on by the hospitals in my community that are broad in scope, cost $0, where I actually DO learn things but they count for zilch.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Partnership may have been the wrong word. Association better? I wouldn't associate with them, on the grounds that they are too deeply in bed with their industry sponsors. Again, maybe we should give presents the benefit of the doubt, things aren't what they appear. But perception is reality.

Meanwhile, there are some really nice programs put on by the hospitals in my community that are broad in scope, cost $0, where I actually DO learn things but they count for zilch.

PRESENT is just smart about their marketing.

Again, they’re approved by CPME to give CECH’s. They have several meetings and a lot of on demand education. If their content is reviewed and approved by MOC committee, it’s approved as an option. We haven’t received complaints about them as an option and I have no reason to exclude them.

Other options are some lectures at APMA, ACPM, ASPS, Goldfarb, several State meetings, and more.

I don’t see an issue with having many options for Diplomates.

MOC (which will be changing its name to Continuous Certification, similar to MD boards) is now a requirement of all certifying boards and a federal standard. Those standards will be changing to require objective assessments in the near future. But ABPM has always promoted mechanisms for Diplomates to demonstrate their continued learning without being too onerous.

This is better than a “high-stakes” recertification exam every 10 years in which you might fail and lose your certification. And since 1994 there is no longer “lifetime certification”.

 

[newfeet]

PRESENT is just smart about their marketing.

Again, they’re approved by CPME to give CECH’s. They have several meetings and a lot of on demand education. If their content is reviewed and approved by MOC committee, it’s approved as an option. We haven’t received complaints about them as an option and I have no reason to exclude them.

Other options are some lectures at APMA, ACPM, ASPS, Goldfarb, several State meetings, and more.

I don’t see an issue with having many options for Diplomates.

MOC (which will be changing its name to Continuous Certification, similar to MD boards) is now a requirement of all certifying boards and a federal standard. Those standards will be changing to require objective assessments in the near future. But ABPM has always promoted mechanisms for Diplomates to demonstrate their continued learning without being too onerous.

This is better than a “high-stakes” recertification exam every 10 years in which you might fail and lose your certification. And since 1994 there is no longer “lifetime certification”.

The website is very easy to use so that’s good. No issues with ABPM on that front. The current process is smooth. If we have to do something like MOC this is a painless way.

 

[RollingstonePod]

MOC (which will be changing its name to Continuous Certification, similar to MD boards)

And similar to ABFAS. Looks like you’re (ABPM) following their LEAD.

 

[Feli]

And similar to ABFAS. Looks like you’re (ABPM) following their LEAD.

You can say him and ABPM as the same thing.
Everyone else quit.
Don't you read the (PM) news?

 

[diabeticfootdr]

And similar to ABFAS. Looks like you’re (ABPM) following their LEAD.

No, ABPM’s MOC programs was one of the earliest, circa 2012. We followed Anesthesia and Internal Medicine at a time when a Diplomate enrolled in MOC would get a 0.5% increase in CMS reimbursement.

LEAD is new.

 

[RollingstonePod]

You can say him and ABPM as the same thing.
Everyone else quit.
Don't you read the (PM) news?

There were a couple of play on words in that statement.

That IS what I meant, you’re ABPM. How else can it be seen when the board you’re president of resigns and you then appoint the absent members. Also, ABFAS changed their MOC to continuous certification two years ago, in essence ABPM is following their LEAD.

 

[GreenHousePub]

And similar to ABFAS. Looks like you’re (ABPM) following their LEAD.

ABPM's was around way before ABFAS.