ADA Income Survey
Started by SigmaFS
It won't just be dental schools wanting to move start dates (law school, med school, every allied health/health sciences program)...
I'm quite sure the whole community of financial aid officers at all the programs are aware of the rules. And many of them are experienced enough to expect loan disbursements to come after matriculation dates. The big worry we all have is the implementation of the federal rules and any hang-ups with getting the money from the feds ... or whatever department of the Executive Branch now that the DoEd is actively delegating its major grant funding programs to other Cabinet departments, whether before or after July 1.
Again, the problem with the echo chamber of reddit is that they're not talking to experts who know the system (a little). Of course, this assumes the experts are confident to talk about it.
Someone post the article into the predental reddit group:
OBBB Loan Changes and the Future of Education | SDN
Learn about the OBBB loan changes and their implications for aspiring health professionals navigating financial aid challenges.
www.studentdoctor.net
What I once said with @Big Time Hoosier backup:
Humor break...
How many years will it take you to pay off your loans?
How many years will it take you to pay off your loans?
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Even if they all successfully pull this off this year, it won’t change anything for the following cycle. They might as well just embrace their new reality. Kicking the can down the road only delays the pain.It won't just be dental schools wanting to move start dates (law school, med school, every allied health/health sciences program)...
I'm quite sure the whole community of financial aid officers at all the programs are aware of the rules. And many of them are experienced enough to expect loan disbursements to come after matriculation dates. The big worry we all have is the implementation of the federal rules and any hang-ups with getting the money from the feds ... or whatever department of the Executive Branch now that the DoEd is actively delegating its major grant funding programs to other Cabinet departments, whether before or after July 1.
Again, the problem with the echo chamber of reddit is that they're not talking to experts who know the system (a little). Of course, this assumes the experts are confident to talk about it.
Someone post the article into the predental reddit group:
OBBB Loan Changes and the Future of Education | SDN
Learn about the OBBB loan changes and their implications for aspiring health professionals navigating financial aid challenges.
Big Hoss
With the Department of Education chaos, there may not be sufficient time to test all the system update need for pre-July 2026 disbursements. I think the majority of schools, whether dent, med/do, vet, pharm, chiro, law, etc., won't opt to change their start dates. And with back-end updates and testing needed, the electronic infrastructure may not be available pre-July 2026 disbursements.
It’s been like 15 years since I looked into this, but there used to only be caps on the amount of GME money allocated for medical residencies, not dental. It’s one of the reasons why pedo programs exploded over the past number of years and suddenly everyone and their sister started going into pedo. OMFS programs are much harder to open given the length of residency and the breadth of procedures they have to cover.
I personally don't know many dentists who are a member of the ADA or where BLS gets their data from. Makes me wonder who is filling out these surveys. A lot of these students taking on this level of debt are only screwed if they aren't willing to work fast and hard. Even in a medicaid mill, you could produce 8k with basic procedures, take 25% on the low end, that's 2k per day, assume govt takes 30%, that brings you to 1400 take home x 20days at an adequate sum of 28k. If you put 10k/month into student loans, student loans go away pretty quick, but if you have investments that return more (post-tax) than the interest paid, put it towards those investments and you should be fine to build wealth. Let us assume that you're at a slow office and you're only doing 4k/day, that's still around 14k post tax. It's still not too bad.
I’d straight up quit dentistry if I had to produce $8k/day at a Medicaid mill…
Big Hoss
Me too
In some states, medicaid pays as much as PPO. However, I've noticed that some medicaid patients have the unique ability to stink up an entire room. Rather, an entire clinic. Smelling like a combination of cigarettes, and weed. Its awful. I'd like statistics on the smoking rate among people with medicaid - its gotta be shockingly high.
“In 2021, smoking prevalence among adults enrolled in Medicaid (21.5%) was higher than it was among adults with private insurance (8.6%).”
State Medicaid Coverage for Tobacco Cessation Treatments...
This report describes state Medicaid coverage of tobacco cessation treatments.
www.cdc.gov
Big Hoss
Make sure you keep paying your taxes in order to pay for their healthcare, so they can use the money they would have spent on healthcare to buy cigarettes, so that they in turn can have worse health, and then consume more healthcare resources. It’s the circle of life.“In 2021, smoking prevalence among adults enrolled in Medicaid (21.5%) was higher than it was among adults with private insurance (8.6%).”
State Medicaid Coverage for Tobacco Cessation Treatments...
This report describes state Medicaid coverage of tobacco cessation treatments.
Big Hoss
Many thanks,
Big Hoss
😆... it's not that bad. Can't be lazy or picky when you first start
This is true. I'd rather produce 8k a day with a mix of self pay/medicaid/and PPO than 4k a day without it. In some states medicaid pays really well. I worked at a clinic that accepted medicaid and some patients are great. What irks me, however, is when those medicaid patients show smelling like they just chained smoked 2 packs of cigarettes right before they came to your office.
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Eh, you get used to it. Some patients are so addicted that they NEED a smoke break during implant surgery. I've had a couple of those, haha. I think that starting in a medicaid mill is great training for a lot of new grads out there. It makes them hardened, faster, and efficient on the basics.
The dream of countless predents. No wonder they’re lining up to borrow $500,000+ to become a dentist.
Big Hoss
It's not a dream, but a financial reality and putting the reps in to train yourself to become a faster and more profitable dentist. Not all will succeed, but I think that if someone is willing to work hard to become profitable, they can. Many of the issues that people have are mental barriers that prevent them from succeeding. Once they can overcome them, they have unlocked a lot of their true potential.
For the average person, would you recommend medical school over dental school? I just couldn’t personally justify the cost of a dental education today given the current ROI.
Big Hoss
As a business person, not so much. It's cheaper to hire MD's and DO's from a healthcare business standpoint than to invest into it yourself. Getting a medical degree requires a lot more time in education, more liability generated, and for certain specialties, requires a lot of hours per week. The more hours you spend working, the less your hourly income (unless you are an employee paid hourly or all the hours are compensated/billable) On the other hand, dentistry has less hours, better work-life balance, and in those hours that you're not working, you can be doing fun stuff or other businesses.
As dentists, we have a large hourly production potential since most of our procedures are one and done deals, and scalable with technology.
As dentists, we have a large hourly production potential since most of our procedures are one and done deals, and scalable with technology.
Anecdotal right now... it's really slow today, just finished an interproximal fill, total time: 3-4 minutes. One of the lower paying PPO's at ~98. That's 24.50/minute for the lowest paying procedure(s) with a PPO. That's not too bad.
