Adapting to change

[melhope11]

I may get a lot of crap for this, but it needs to be said. I was successful in the retail pharmacy business for 14 years before I found my passion, optometry. I'm now class of 2016.

I find most of the posts on here to be bitter about the profession. To be successful, you have to adapt to change. This country isn't the same as it was even 10 years ago. My pharmacy didn't have the cheapest prices in town for those without insurance, but I would be damned if my employees didn't go out of their way to give the best customer service. Our patients don't owe us anything, It's us that owe them exceptional care and service.

Upon interviewing this past cycle I found it quite interesting when meeting with the different deans. I actually made my decision because only one truly focused and showed a deep passion for patient care. Every other one seemed to be most excited to talk about the classes they had about running a business.

Be passionate, be smart, and get a clue that it's not 1990 anymore

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[Jason K]

I may get a lot of crap for this, but it needs to be said. I was successful in the retail pharmacy business for 14 years before I found my passion, optometry. I'm now class of 2016.

I find most of the posts on here to be bitter about the profession. To be successful, you have to adapt to change. This country isn't the same as it was even 10 years ago. My pharmacy didn't have the cheapest prices in town for those without insurance, but I would be damned if my employees didn't go out of their way to give the best customer service. Our patients don't owe us anything, It's us that owe them exceptional care and service.

Upon interviewing this past cycle I found it quite interesting when meeting with the different deans. I actually made my decision because only one truly focused and showed a deep passion for patient care. Every other one seemed to be most excited to talk about the classes they had about running a business.

Be passionate, be smart, and get a clue that it's not 1990 anymore

If your passion is patient care, you're not likely to get what you want out of the profession. Sorry, dude - just telling you the truth. The trend in the profession is toward selling materials, not patient care, and the companies that will be hiring/leasing to the majority of ODs are not interested in providing care.

You're right about adapting to the changing environment. It goes for any profession, but adaptation can only go so far once major, sweeping changes have taken place. If you're looking forward to a career in optometry, providing quality comprehensive eye care for your patients, you're cruising for major disappointment. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I used to interview hundreds of people with your sentiment, a number of them entering optometry from other professions, and by graduation, most of them regretted their decision to enter optometry. One of the flaws in your line of thinking (which is nothing new), is that you believe you can change more than you actually can. You're not in control in this profession - the insurance companies and the corporations are. That's the reality. You can fight all you want against insurers, but you'll rarely do anything but waste vast amounts of time and money. There are cases of ODs ganging up against insurers and winning, but they're rare events. You have to realize that you're entering a profession that is on the downslide and there will only be so much you can do to counteract it. There will be things you can do, don't get me wrong, but they can only do so much.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth. If others see it differently, that's fine, but I see my fair share of people progress from pre-optometry to OD student, to new OD and I know what the usual sentiments are after a year or two in practice. It doesn't take long to see optometry for what it really is once you're out for a couple of years. You can't see it when you're in school, it's just not there for students.

 

[Tippytoe]

If your passion is patient care, you're not likely to get what you want out of the profession. Sorry, dude - just telling you the truth. The trend in the profession is toward selling materials, not patient care, and the companies that will be hiring/leasing to the majority of ODs are not interested in providing care.
.

Well Jason. gotta give this guy credit. He is moving from a horrible profession to one that is one step less horrible (if you take out that little minor employment aspect thing). I can think of nothing worse than standing behind the counter at Walgrens for 10 hours counting people's Vicoden all day as they bitched about their copay.

Optometry IS slightly better than that...........but not much. At least you get to walk from room to room in Optometry.......unless you end up in commercial. In which case you end up with the same nasty pharmacy patient except the smelly pt and their kids will have you captive in a 8 x 8 room about 10 minutes.

At least in pharmacy, you have a counter or window blocking you and the welfare queen. In optometry, you get to smell their nasty breath and dirty baby diapers all day long.

No I take it back. They are about equal. No, pharmacy pays more so they win.

This guy is in for a WILD ride. But wow, 'adapting for change'. That's certainly a new concept. No one has ever thought of that!! Maybe his guy will win a Nobel Prize for his exciting, new theories in business.

And of course the last typewriter company on earth shouldn't have just closed down.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-26/news/30072856_1_typewriters-manufacturers-machines

They should have just 'adapted', painted their cases bright pink and had Justin Beber advertise for them. The fact that a much better instrument was invented should have nothing to do with old technology fading away.

Just need to adapt to changes. Ha, ha, ha. I LOVE IT! I can't wait until he starts saying he will differentiate himself by doing Vision Therapy or Low Vision. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha..........He did give me a good laugh for the weekend.

P.S We have a pharmacist turned OD here local. Within five years, he had given up Optometry and works hospital pharmacy FT now. Trust me in saying he 100% regrets taking out $100,000 loans for OD school. True story. We also have a pharmamist turned eyeglass frame rep. I don't know his full story though.

 

[melhope11]

Suited for commercial since that's the type of industry I'm good at. I actually like making customers happy. That's why I went into it to begin with. I don't know if it's where I'll wind up...I've actually always wanted to be in the air force, but we'll see where I wind up.

Was just pointing out that there's a lot of complaining on here. Tippytoe, you just said an Rph gets paid more so they win? Go ask one their hours...14 hour days for most of them. Get off SDN and maybe you'll make more money.

 

[Jason K]

This guy is in for a WILD ride. But wow, 'adapting for change'. That's certainly a new concept. No one has ever thought of that!! Maybe his guy will win a Nobel Prize for his exciting, new theories in business.

I hear color filters for reading problems are making a big come-back...maybe he can try that as a "practice booster."

 

[Tippytoe]

Suited for commercial since that's the type of industry I'm good at. I actually like making customers happy. That's why I went into it to begin with. I don't know if it's where I'll wind up...I've actually always wanted to be in the air force, but we'll see where I wind up.

Was just pointing out that there's a lot of complaining on here. Tippytoe, you just said an Rph gets paid more so they win? Go ask one their hours...14 hour days for most of them. Get off SDN and maybe you'll make more money.

I'm doing fine, thanks.

 

[Tippytoe]

I hear color filters for reading problems are making a big come-back...maybe he can try that as a "practice booster."

Come on Jason......you're just being silly now.

We all know the big money is when the baby-boomers start rushing into all of our offices demanding high dollar progressives and awesome bifocal contact lenses.

That is what is going to save Optometry. Have you not read anything the students have been posting? Man you are dense!

 

[Optomchick]

I may get a lot of crap for this, but it needs to be said. I was successful in the retail pharmacy business for 14 years before I found my passion, optometry. I'm now class of 2016.

I find most of the posts on here to be bitter about the profession. To be successful, you have to adapt to change. This country isn't the same as it was even 10 years ago. My pharmacy didn't have the cheapest prices in town for those without insurance, but I would be damned if my employees didn't go out of their way to give the best customer service. Our patients don't owe us anything, It's us that owe them exceptional care and service.

Upon interviewing this past cycle I found it quite interesting when meeting with the different deans. I actually made my decision because only one truly focused and showed a deep passion for patient care. Every other one seemed to be most excited to talk about the classes they had about running a business.

Be passionate, be smart, and get a clue that it's not 1990 anymore

Which school was it that you decided on?

 

[BeesKnees22]

Well Jason. gotta give this guy credit. He is moving from a horrible profession to one that is one step less horrible (if you take out that little minor employment aspect thing). I can think of nothing worse than standing behind the counter at Walgrens for 10 hours counting people's Vicoden all day as they bitched about their copay.

Optometry IS slightly better than that...........but not much. At least you get to walk from room to room in Optometry.......unless you end up in commercial. In which case you end up with the same nasty pharmacy patient except the smelly pt and their kids will have you captive in a 8 x 8 room about 10 minutes.

At least in pharmacy, you have a counter or window blocking you and the welfare queen. In optometry, you get to smell their nasty breath and dirty baby diapers all day long.

No I take it back. They are about equal. No, pharmacy pays more so they win.

This guy is in for a WILD ride. But wow, 'adapting for change'. That's certainly a new concept. No one has ever thought of that!! Maybe his guy will win a Nobel Prize for his exciting, new theories in business.

And of course the last typewriter company on earth shouldn't have just closed down.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-26/news/30072856_1_typewriters-manufacturers-machines

They should have just 'adapted', painted their cases bright pink and had Justin Beber advertise for them. The fact that a much better instrument was invented should have nothing to do with old technology fading away.

Just need to adapt to changes. Ha, ha, ha. I LOVE IT! I can't wait until he starts saying he will differentiate himself by doing Vision Therapy or Low Vision. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha..........He did give me a good laugh for the weekend.

P.S We have a pharmacist turned OD here local. Within five years, he had given up Optometry and works hospital pharmacy FT now. Trust me in saying he 100% regrets taking out $100,000 loans for OD school. True story. We also have a pharmamist turned eyeglass frame rep. I don't know his full story though.

See, I'm trying to take this forum more seriously and listen to what everyone is saying (even to the extent that I had my dad call a dentist with good connections to ask about dental school), but then I see this and I just revert back to the stance of "everyone here is just bitter." I think you can see why.

Most of my friends and a few relatives are pharmacists. They work in retail. Long hours every day for probably around 110K a year. And honestly their attitude about the profession is nothing like this. They don't talk about welfare queens bitching; I mean they talk about this kind of stuff, but usually with an attitude of humor. They've said that it gets boring and whatnot, but I have never seen an attitude of pure misery with them. The truth is that 100K per year to stand behind the counter or to do refractions is nice enough. If you expect to be praised and constantly entertained, then be a surgeon, or to a lesser extent an MD. I'm not planning on changing the world; I'm looking for a job that pays in the low six figures in a clean environment without a ton of stress, where I can develop a rapport with people. I'm not going to be a medical messiah. I want a day job that will give me enough time and money to be writer in my free time. And before anyone starts, that doesn't mean that I won't care about my patients. I am a very warm person in real life.

I do get annoyed with the attitude that ODs are people who couldn't make it into med school, dentistry, whatever. I have a 3.9 in pre-med at a private school. I just don't want to take 7 years to be a doctor, and I don't know that I could make myself do what dentists do. Just because someone has the intellect to be an MD or dentist, it doesn't mean that he or she is actually cut out for the nature or the work.

I wish we could select 100 optometrists at random from all over the country and get them to post here for the weekend. This forum might be drastically different. I'm really, really trying to keep an open mind on this place, but I know too many people in real life who could make the same complaints that I see here, but who have a completely different attitude.

One complaint that I think is genuine is the hight cost of schooling. I will admit that I am getting a decent amount of help from family for tuition and living. I am extremely thankful for this. I could understand the apprehension involving tuition fees. Excuse any errors, I have to leave and can't proof this.

 

[Jason K]

Come on Jason......you're just being silly now.

We all know the big money is when the baby-boomers start rushing into all of our offices demanding high dollar progressives and awesome bifocal contact lenses.

That is what is going to save Optometry. Have you not read anything the students have been posting? Man you are dense!

I know, I know. Those Air Optix MF fittings can really bring it in. And let's not forget about modified monovision. Boy, if I had a dollar for everyone I've fit in modified monovis......wait a minute....that's about exactly what I have.....about $1 for each of them after their awesome vision plan ponies up

And, of course, as we all know, the "aging baby-boomer population" will lead to strong growth of the profession! Or not. It will definitely be one of those two outcomes.

Before deciding to leave optometry, I thought about offering VT to dogs and cats as a new option that hadn't been tried before, but I figured I'd run into some potential friction with the local vets. Also, I soon discovered that no insurance plans cover VT and pet owners were just not willing to pay the money to help their pets read better. Basically, I ended up just pet-sitting for 30 minutes at a time. Total fail.

 

[Jason K]

I wish we could select 100 optometrists at random from all over the country and get them to post here for the weekend. This forum might be drastically different. I'm really, really trying to keep an open mind on this place, but I know too many people in real life who could make the same complaints that I see here, but who have a completely different attitude.

You might be VERY surprised at what you would hear. I suggest you talk to as many ODs as you can...preferably skewed toward the younger ones. I was young and completely naive once too. I could never imagine that all the complaints I heard were true. They are, and they're not going away. They're getting far worse while the profession's organized leaders stand by and eat popcorn.

 

[Tippytoe]

The truth is that 100K per year to stand behind the counter or to do refractions is nice enough.

Of course, that sound nice. I, too, thought the same time. We were all students. I thought, well I have a biology degree and can't really get a good job. Maybe teaching high school for $30,000/yr. Or I could go to med school, or podiatry or chiropractic, etc....

I chose optometry because like you, I naively thought, "I would be happy making $100,000 for standing around doing refractions". It does sound good on the surface.

Problem is, as we've discussed, $100,000 with no bills is good. $100,000 with $90,0000 worth of bills (overhead) is not good. If you've got rich parents that foot the deal you are certainly better off. If not...............

You graduate and find there are not many jobs. After a long search you get 2 days of work at Walmart as a fill-in and 2 days at a Lenscrafters and Saturdays working for a private practice OD. So you bring in $350 (generous) per day So you make $7,000/month. Sounds awesome still, right?.

Taxes will take away $2,000 right off the top since most likely you will be an "independent contractor". If you have school loans at $2,000/month (see *loan calculator below), your already down to $3,000 of "spending money". About where a police officer or teachers is at the end of the month. Except out of your 3 grand, you have to pay $1,000/month for health insurance(or maybe $500 if your single). That leaves $2,000. A decent house will cost you $1,500/month and maybe you want to finally get rid of that 1989 Tercel so you get a new Camry at $400/month.

After all that (very realistic scenerio) you have about $100 left for food, gas and entertainment............BUT YOU GET TO BE A DOCTOR! And the problem is, unlike most other professions, you pay will not increase much, at all, over the years. So that $84,000 in 2012 is still gong to be $84,000 in 2020. There is no advancement in optometry unless you have your own office where you can see as many patients as you can find (gotta dress in a bid eyeball suit and stand by the road just to get a few new patients).

The people that will do well in optometry in the future will be the same type that did well in optometry in the 1950's. Their GPAs were in the 2.0's just as the future ODs will have trying to fill up the new school. Before diagnostic and therapeautic drugs, ODs were basic refractionists. TOTALLY MIND-NUMBING WORK. THAT's the type of person that is tailor-made for optometry. The type of person that can sit on a porch and watch cars pass by all day. Or one that is happy watching paint dry and grass grow.

Strugging to pay bills every month gets VERY old in a few years. Refracting people over and over and over and over gets very old in a few years. THEN you will realize that you are smarter than this and that you wasted your life doing a job that could be done by a person with an associates degree. There is almost ZERO thinking in optometry. ZERO intellecutal challenge unless you are one of thost paint drying watchers. In which case, you'd be happy doing ANY job.

So in summary:

1. You won't be making as much 'take-home' money as you think.
2. You likely won't be 'intellectually' satisfied as optometry is mind-numbing, simpleton work.

** Loan Calculator

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Balance: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$200,000.00 .
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[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Fees: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]0.00%.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Enrollment Status:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Graduating Soon.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Degree Program:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Doctor (O.D.).[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Total Years in College:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]4 years.
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​

 

[BeesKnees22]

Of course, that sound nice. I, too, thought the same time. We were all students. I thought, well I have a biology degree and can't really get a good job. Maybe teaching high school for $30,000/yr. Or I could go to med school, or podiatry or chiropractic, etc....

I chose optometry because like you, I naively thought, "I would be happy making $100,000 for standing around doing refractions". It does sound good on the surface.

Problem is, as we've discussed, $100,000 with no bills is good. $100,000 with $90,0000 worth of bills (overhead) is not good. If you've got rich parents that foot the deal you are certainly better off. If not...............

You graduate and find there are not many jobs. After a long search you get 2 days of work at Walmart as a fill-in and 2 days at a Lenscrafters and Saturdays working for a private practice OD. So you bring in $350 (generous) per day So you make $7,000/month. Sounds awesome still, right?.

Taxes will take away $2,000 right off the top since most likely you will be an "independent contractor". If you have school loans at $2,000/month (see *loan calculator below), your already down to $3,000 of "spending money". About where a police officer or teachers is at the end of the month. Except out of your 3 grand, you have to pay $1,000/month for health insurance(or maybe $500 if your single). That leaves $2,000. A decent house will cost you $1,500/month and maybe you want to finally get rid of that 1989 Tercel so you get a new Camry at $400/month.

After all that (very realistic scenerio) you have about $100 left for food, gas and entertainment............BUT YOU GET TO BE A DOCTOR! And the problem is, unlike most other professions, you pay will not increase much, at all, over the years. So that $84,000 in 2012 is still gong to be $84,000 in 2020. There is no advancement in optometry unless you have your own office where you can see as many patients as you can find (gotta dress in a bid eyeball suit and stand by the road just to get a few new patients).

The people that will do well in optometry in the future will be the same type that did well in optometry in the 1950's. Their GPAs were in the 2.0's just as the future ODs will have trying to fill up the new school. Before diagnostic and therapeautic drugs, ODs were basic refractionists. TOTALLY MIND-NUMBING WORK. THAT's the type of person that is tailor-made for optometry. The type of person that can sit on a porch and watch cars pass by all day. Or one that is happy watching paint dry and grass grow.

Strugging to pay bills every month gets VERY old in a few years. Refracting people over and over and over and over gets very old in a few years. THEN you will realize that you are smarter than this and that you wasted your life doing a job that could be done by a person with an associates degree. There is almost ZERO thinking in optometry. ZERO intellecutal challenge unless you are one of thost paint drying watchers. In which case, you'd be happy doing ANY job.

So in summary:

1. You won't be making as much 'take-home' money as you think.
2. You likely won't be 'intellectually' satisfied as optometry is mind-numbing, simpleton work.

** Loan Calculator

[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Balance: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$200,000.00 .
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Interest Rate: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]6.80%.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Loan Fees: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]0.00%.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Enrollment Status:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Graduating Soon.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Degree Program:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Doctor (O.D.).[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Total Years in College:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]4 years.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Average Debt per Year:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$50,000.00 .
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Monthly Loan Payment:.[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$2,301.61 .
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Number of Payments: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]120.
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Cumulative Payments: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$276,192.62 .
[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]Total Interest Paid: .[FONT=ARIAL, HELVETICA]$76,192.62 .
​

I certainly appreciate your time and the length of the reply, but at this point, I don't know what more to do. I really don't feel that I could be a dentist--too much surgery involved. I really don't want to spend 7 years to be a medical doctor. It seems that many are complaining about pharmacy as well. I think that there is more human interaction with optometry than with pharmacy, and that's important to me. I'm honestly willing to listen...what do you think that I should do? I'm looking for a comfortable low six-figure income. I don't need to be filthy rich. I am very good at academic work. I'm willing to work hard, but I just can't see any better options for myself at this point. Law is saturated, so is pharmacy, I've heard that MBAs are worthless unless you're from a top program. I'm at a loss, maybe I should pony up and try to be a dentist.

 

[Jason K]

..... but at this point, I don't know what more to do. I really don't feel that I could be a dentist--too much surgery involved. ...... I'm at a loss, maybe I should pony up and try to be a dentist.

Orthodontists do absolutely zero surgery.

 

[q1we3]

I certainly appreciate your time and the length of the reply, but at this point, I don't know what more to do. I really don't feel that I could be a dentist--too much surgery involved. I really don't want to spend 7 years to be a medical doctor. It seems that many are complaining about pharmacy as well. I think that there is more human interaction with optometry than with pharmacy, and that's important to me. I'm honestly willing to listen...what do you think that I should do? I'm looking for a comfortable low six-figure income. I don't need to be filthy rich. I am very good at academic work. I'm willing to work hard, but I just can't see any better options for myself at this point. Law is saturated, so is pharmacy, I've heard that MBAs are worthless unless you're from a top program. I'm at a loss, maybe I should pony up and try to be a dentist.

Do you think you will enjoy being a dentist for rest of your life? What if you enter dentistry school and hate it? If you don't think optometry is the right path then jumping into another profession which you have no interest in is not the right move?
Maybe take some time off and shadow a dentist or two. What about Physician Assistant, Radiation therapist or other mid level providers?

 

[BeesKnees22]

Do you think you will enjoy being a dentist for rest of your life? What if you enter dentistry school and hate it? If you don't think optometry is the right path then jumping into another profession which you have no interest in is not the right move?
Maybe take some time off and shadow a dentist or two. What about Physician Assistant, Radiation therapist or other mid level providers?

When I shadow optometrists, I actually really enjoy the nature of the work. Even at places like WalMart, I am pretty content, though the work can be repetitive. Unlike most people, I actually like to interact with people on a casual, small-talk level. I love to BS. The other day, I shadowed with an optometrist, and I actually had a really great day. It was in a small town, and everyone was really friendly and respectful of the doctor. We hardly saw the same thing twice; there were a lot of odd ailments. I have been very happy about school ever since I found out that I got in. I have been planning on optometry since age 14. Some people have been telling me that I am selling myself short because I have had really strong grades in the past 8 years. Passed the OAT with like 1.5 weeks of study. (I'm not trying to brag on here, honestly. If you read more, you'll see that I'm fairly lost right now.) But honestly, I really would be content with optometry part time and writing/working on an English degree after I graduate. It's just that between this forum and ODwire, I have been on the verge of a breakdown. I cried for about an hour tonight. I have no desire to be an MD or a dentist, but I hate hearing all of these people say that I'm making a huge mistake and throwing money away. I don't want to waste anyone's money. I am a hard worker.

 

[q1we3]

When I shadow optometrists, I actually really enjoy the nature of the work. Even at places like WalMart, I am pretty content, though the work can be repetitive. Unlike most people, I actually like to interact with people on a casual, small-talk level. I love to BS. The other day, I shadowed with an optometrist, and I actually had a really great day. It was in a small town, and everyone was really friendly and respectful of the doctor. We hardly saw the same thing twice; there were a lot of odd ailments. I have been very happy about school ever since I found out that I got in. I have been planning on optometry since age 14. Some people have been telling me that I am selling myself short because I have had really strong grades in the past 8 years. Passed the OAT with like 1.5 weeks of study. (I'm not trying to brag on here, honestly. If you read more, you'll see that I'm fairly lost right now.) But honestly, I really would be content with optometry part time and writing/working on an English degree after I graduate. It's just that between this forum and ODwire, I have been on the verge of a breakdown. I cried for about an hour tonight. I have no desire to be an MD or a dentist, but I hate hearing all of these people say that I'm making a huge mistake and throwing money away. I don't want to waste anyone's money. I am a hard worker.

One thing you must do if you want to survive in this world is develop a very very thick skin, if you start breaking down on what you read on forums you are going to have a very tough life ahead of you.

You have to ask yourself the right questions to find if you should continue with optometry. And only you can answer those.

Here is some of the questions you should be asking:
1. Will you have a 6 figure loan?
2. Are you happy knowing that you might never your own PP?
3. Are you happy knowing that you might have work few part time gigs at CPs to put a full time schedule?
4. Are you willing to move to any state for a job? this is a big one
5. Are you willing to wait before committing to any other responsibilities/expenses meaning a house, new car, or starting a family?

Once you have answered these questions you should have a better idea. But, it seems like you really have your heart set on being an OD so I suggest there is no point on looking at the negative side of optometry. I wish I could tell you everything will be fine but I don't know. All can say is if are going through with optometry school then stop coming to these forums since they are not helping. You already have made your decision, focus on your studies and surround yourself with something positive. These forums will only make you feel depressed, if you take them too seriously. And please stop asking for others approval about your life decisions you are an adult and its your life, do what you think is right.

 

[BeesKnees22]

One thing you must do if you want to survive in this world is develop a very very thick skin, if you start breaking down on what you read on forums you are going to have a very tough life ahead of you.

You have to ask yourself the right questions to find if you should continue with optometry. And only you can answer those.

Here is some of the questions you should be asking:
1. Will you have a 6 figure loan?
2. Are you happy knowing that you might never your own PP?
3. Are you happy knowing that you might have work few part time gigs at CPs to put a full time schedule?
4. Are you willing to move to any state for a job? this is a big one
5. Are you willing to wait before committing to any other responsibilities/expenses meaning a house, new car, or starting a family?

Once you have answered these questions you should have a better idea. But, it seems like you really have your heart set on being an OD so I suggest there is no point on looking at the negative side of optometry. I wish I could tell you everything will be fine but I don't know. All can say is if are going through with optometry school then stop coming to these forums since they are not helping. You already have made your decision, focus on your studies and surround yourself with something positive. These forums will only make you feel depressed, if you take them too seriously. And please stop asking for others approval about your life decisions you are an adult and its your life, do what you think is right.

I actually agree with pretty much everything you have said. I usually don't let the Internet get to me, and I don't want to start now. I think that I am going to stay for a few more days to tie up loose ends and private messages, and then be done with it here. In many years, I will try to come back to give advice, as I feel that it is only fair since I have gotten advice, but who knows if SDN will even exist. I've always known that there is a difference between forums and real life, so I guess I got a little too wrapped up in this one. It was just totally different from what I expected. I think I'm of the personal opinion that one's outlook and attitude plays a big factor in overall happiness.

To the questions you posed:
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. This would be my only tough one, as I love cities.
5. Yes.

Thanks for your time.

 

[melhope11]

I never said selling any of that stuff was the answer. Good 'ol fashion working harder is. Stop being old school. The days of m-f/8-4 are long gone. A large majority of pharmacists, nurses and MDs have crazy schedules and always have. Be thankful that it was so cushy for you as long as it was.

For anyone going into any profession, if you are passionate for the field, you will be satisfied. If you go into it lacking that passion, then it's just a job, and disappointment is likely.

 

[Superblyme]

I actually agree with pretty much everything you have said. I usually don't let the Internet get to me, and I don't want to start now. I think that I am going to stay for a few more days to tie up loose ends and private messages, and then be done with it here. In many years, I will try to come back to give advice, as I feel that it is only fair since I have gotten advice, but who knows if SDN will even exist. I've always known that there is a difference between forums and real life, so I guess I got a little too wrapped up in this one. It was just totally different from what I expected. I think I'm of the personal opinion that one's outlook and attitude plays a big factor in overall happiness.

To the questions you posed:
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. This would be my only tough one, as I love cities.
5. Yes.

Thanks for your time.

If your total loan is less than $100,000, I don't know why you're becoming so worried. It seems the biggest problem for new grads is the crushing loan debt, but you won't be having that issue. If you choose extended repayment, you would only be paying ~$650/month for a $100,000 loan. That's not unmanageable, is it? Under Tippytoe's calculations, you would then have $1500/month for food, gas, entertainment, etc (assuming you're single). This is much better than most.

 

[Tippytoe]

If your total loan is less than $100,000, I don't know why you're becoming so worried. It seems the biggest problem for new grads is the crushing loan debt, but you won't be having that issue. If you choose extended repayment, you would only be paying ~$650/month for a $100,000 loan. That's not unmanageable, is it? Under Tippytoe's calculations, you would then have $1500/month for food, gas, entertainment, etc (assuming you're single). This is much better than most.

Actually you will be left with about $100 for food, gas, entertainment, etc. per month in my example. Might want to read it over again.

The thing is.........very few doctors really LOVE their work after a while. Everything gets old and routine eventually. All fields are like this. When I hear someone has " a passion for eyecare" it makes me lightheaded. That is somethng you put on an application or say when you are in a beauty pagent. Any "passion" you have will end in a few years. Trust me. The job, patients, insurance and your bosses WILL beat you down over time (mainly insurance and patients). THEN it becomes just a job to feed the family and make the house payment. Please don't think otherwise. Lifes responsiblites WILL meet you head on. Before you know it, you will be 35 with a couple of kids, a spouse, a house payment, car payments, bills, bills, bills......

As I've proclaimed before, if you dead-set in going into health care and don't want to be an MD, dentistry, BY FAR, is your best bet. Why?

1. They have virtually no competetion except for other dentists. ODs have, of course, other ODs.........and OMDs, pediatricians, family docs, PAs, NPs, and nurses competeing for your eye care patients. Then ODs have 100 online companies competing for their optical sales.

As an example: Pediatricians are getting greedy lately and billing an autorefraction as an eye exam to patient's insurance. So when they go to ODs, they have no insurance benefits for the eye exam and don't get one. You deal with silly stuff like this all the time.....stuff that takes money right out of your pocket. Is it legal? Well, an MD degree gives you the right to do about anything. A Peds doc can do an eye exam if they want. (realistically they are not doing an eye exam but still they get away with it--no one can stop them).

2. Dentistry does not have a vast oversupply. They smartly shut down schools and limited their supply years ago. As a result, they have a very manageable dentist to population ratio. You can set up a dentist office and be doing well in 1 year and be ready to hire an associate in two. A private OD office will likely never be fully booked. That's why private ODs don't hire other ODs. There are not enough pts to keep even one OD busy full-time.

3. Dentistry has limited their involvement with stupid insurance. THAT ALONE is worth the price of admission ! They get to charge REAL market fees for most of their procedures instead of accepting $30 for an exam that cost you $40 in overhead. And people in tooth pain rarely haggle over prices. No way to get a filling or braces on-line and never will be (THATS A KEY!!).

These 3 reason alone is why dentistry is heads above optometry and most other health professions. Don't believe me. Head on over to the dental forum on SDN and see if you see the amount of complaining and doom that is here on the optometry pages.

 

[melhope11]

I don't see anyone on here knocking dentistry...the only one I know personally is one in NYC, takes no insurance and is millionaire. Unfortunately for me, I have no desire whatsoever to be one. Optometry is a second career for me. Even though pharmacy was just a job for me...I still loved my customers. I stilled enjoyed making the angry ones happy. I didn't mind working the long hours...its what I signed up for. I had corporate bosses and if you're smarter than them...you can get passed the red tape.

 

[Jason K]

I had corporate bosses and if you're smarter than them...you can get passed the red tape.

Ever have a corporate boss who has a HS education, a potty mouth, and several partially concealed tattoos? I have.....it's awesome. You can't get past the red tape in corporate optometry - it's what dictates your daily activities, what you say to patients, what you fit on patients, how you do just about everything you do. Go against the grain and you'll expect a visit from above. Sorry, your line of thinking doesn't apply to this profession.

 

[Superblyme]

Using your figures with a $650/month loan payment (extended repayment on a $100,000 loan):

$7,000/month - $2000 taxes = $5000/month. Subtract $650 in school payments = $4350. Subtract $500 in insurance (I said assuming you are single) = $3850. Subtract $1500 for house payments = $2350. Then, subtract $400 for your Camry, and you end up with $1950. I was being scant with my figure of $1500. You might want to read over my comment again, you know the part where his loan is under $100,000 and he can choose extended repayment? That's where the difference comes in.

 

[Tippytoe]

Using your figures with a $650/month loan payment (extended repayment on a $100,000 loan):

$7,000/month - $2000 taxes = $5000/month. Subtract $650 in school payments = $4350. Subtract $500 in insurance (I said assuming you are single) = $3850. Subtract $1500 for house payments = $2350. Then, subtract $400 for your Camry, and you end up with $1950. I was being scant with my figure of $1500. You might want to read over my comment again, you know the part where his loan is under $100,000 and he can choose extended repayment? That's where the difference comes in.

Are you never going to get married? Never going to have kids? Never going to want to invest in a retirement plan? Never going to get sick? Never going to take a vacation?

For most, all this will happen eventually. But you will be at the same income level as when you first started. That $1,950 you have left over is less than a teacher, fireman or policeman with a high school diploma. AND they have great employer-paid benefits including health care, retirement, vacation pay, etc.......... You will have none of this. It's all on your own dime. Did you know if you have a lease in a commerical store, they will most likely make you pay to have a day off if you don't find a fill-in? You may actually have to PAY to take a vactation or a day off to watch your childs school play or soccer game. They control you like a slave.....or at least in indentured servant.


So in reality, you will be making less 'take-home pay' than a civil service employee for all of your hard work and schooling. That's my point. That's rediculous!!

If you are one of the few that can keep your loans under $100,000, good for you. That will help. But anyone who stretches out their student loans past 10 years is a few eggs short of a dozen. You will never achieve financial success while you're in debt. And as you know, student loans follow you for life.....even through backruptcy. It's a giant anchor around your neck.

My advice for anyone with low student loans would be to hit them hard and pay them off as soon as possible. Then pay your house off. That's what I did and then I was able to begin accumulating wealth. With debt dragging you down, your only concern will be, "when is my next paycheck coming".

 

[odieoh]

I may get a lot of crap for this, but it needs to be said. I was successful in the retail pharmacy business for 14 years before I found my passion, optometry. I'm now class of 2016.

I find most of the posts on here to be bitter about the profession. To be successful, you have to adapt to change. This country isn't the same as it was even 10 years ago. My pharmacy didn't have the cheapest prices in town for those without insurance, but I would be damned if my employees didn't go out of their way to give the best customer service. Our patients don't owe us anything, It's us that owe them exceptional care and service.

Upon interviewing this past cycle I found it quite interesting when meeting with the different deans. I actually made my decision because only one truly focused and showed a deep passion for patient care. Every other one seemed to be most excited to talk about the classes they had about running a business.

Be passionate, be smart, and get a clue that it's not 1990 anymore

Just curious as to how you feel that optometry is now your passion, considering you can't possibly understand exactly what optometry entails until you've become one and walked in one's shoes? Please don't tell me you went and shadowed an optometrist for a while and had a good time and now its your passion?

I'm all for finding one's passion and making changes to one's life to find happiness, but this kind of career change makes absolutely no sense to me. I'd love to hear back from you in 10 years to hear if you think it was worth it or not.

 

[Optomchick]

Are you never going to get married? Never going to have kids? Never going to want to invest in a retirement plan? Never going to get sick? Never going to take a vacation?

For most, all this will happen eventually. But you will be at the same income level as when you first started. That $1,950 you have left over is less than a teacher, fireman or policeman with a high school diploma. AND they have great employer-paid benefits including health care, retirement, vacation pay, etc.......... You will have none of this. It's all on your own dime. Did you know if you have a lease in a commerical store, they will most likely make you pay to have a day off if you don't find a fill-in? You may actually have to PAY to take a vactation or a day off to watch your childs school play or soccer game. They control you like a slave.....or at least in indentured servant.


So in reality, you will be making less 'take-home pay' than a civil service employee for all of your hard work and schooling. That's my point. That's rediculous!!

If you are one of the few that can keep your loans under $100,000, good for you. That will help. But anyone who stretches out their student loans past 10 years is a few eggs short of a dozen. You will never achieve financial success while you're in debt. And as you know, student loans follow you for life.....even through backruptcy. It's a giant anchor around your neck.

My advice for anyone with low student loans would be to hit them hard and pay them off as soon as possible. Then pay your house off. That's what I did and then I was able to begin accumulating wealth. With debt dragging you down, your only concern will be, "when is my next paycheck coming".

The ODs I've talked to in CA have benefits such as health insurance and vacation time. I think you're overestimating how much a teacher makes, i've heard it's around 30k lol.

 

[Shnurek]

Its OK people like Tippytoe and JasonK have certain complexes where they thought that if they became some sort of Doctor they would have boundless riches, boundless respect and an easy job. This is most surely not the case with any type of Doctor. The comprehensive ophthalmologist I worked for was a really cool guy. And even he felt like an indentured servant. He had to pay off a $350,000 practice loan, his house mortgage which was also probably another $500,000, even though thankfully his parents paid for his medical school tuition. 1/3 of the time he was doing paperwork such as filling out charts or signing documents or writing surgical reports on the computer which he hated.

I agree with them though on this topic: The morale crushing, life sucking, high tuition student loan debt is killing this generation of professionals. Many people don't even realize how this is going to effect the rest of their lives. If you aren't rich and you will need to take out hundreds of thousands in loans you had better think long and hard about how you are indenturing yourself.

As a parallel here is a list of topics that dentists are complaining about: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=933581#6
Hmmm seems awfully similar to the whiners here.

 

[Tippytoe]

Its OK people like Tippytoe and JasonK have certain complexes where they thought that if they became some sort of Doctor they would have boundless riches, boundless respect and an easy job.

Slick, I am positive neither Jason nor I have ever thought or said anything remotely like that. I grew up very poor. I served in combat in Panama and Kuwait (as an infantryman before OD school). I've earned more money than I ever thought I would have. I have my home paid off. I have many cars (I'm a classic car collector). I have investments. BUT.............and this is the big BUT, I did it at a time when it was realistic to do so in optometry. Since than, I've seen my income drop. I've seen ever ODs that I know have a progressive income drop over the past decade. It had nothing to do with what we were or weren't doing.

It's never been about making money for me (although speaking as on who's had none and now does, having money is MUCH better than not having it).

But what I did has become increasingly more difficult to do. We are speaking in generalities and you and Optomchick are speaking in exceptions. Sure, both of you could land a $200,000 job with the best of benefits. I hope you do. But the vast majority of the 2,000 new ODs pumped out every year will not. Maybe you guys are smarter because your on here getting a view of the reality. I hope so. But you have to know as much as we do that the majority of your class is made up of little rich kids who's mommy and daddy want to see them be a doctor and they have no clue what the real world is like. Hell, your 23 years old. You couldn't possible know much about the real world.

Sure there are a few ODs getting a good salary with good benefits. BUT THIS IS NOT THE NORM. The norm is new grads piecing together multiple part-time jobs as independent contractors. BTW, we all had one or two SHNUREKs in our classes. They were the know-it-alls. The one in my class was named Rich. His dad was an optican and he would walk around adjusting everyone's glasses in the class. He was going to opened the biggest practice rural Mississippi has ever seen. He leased an office space in a strip mall and lasted 1 year. Since then, he's been at Walmart, Lenscrafters, a few private practice assocites jobs and now he's filling in a Walmart while losing money day-trading on the side. Just so ya know.

I wonder................................................................................................................................
Is there ANY area of optometry where you MIGHT believe that real, working, praticing (might I add successful) optometrists could possibly know more than a student. Anything?

 

[CL Doc]

Just curious as to how you feel that optometry is now your passion, considering you can't possibly understand exactly what optometry entails until you've become one and walked in one's shoes? Please don't tell me you went and shadowed an optometrist for a while and had a good time and now its your passion?

I'm all for finding one's passion and making changes to one's life to find happiness, but this kind of career change makes absolutely no sense to me. I'd love to hear back from you in 10 years to hear if you think it was worth it or not.

Couldn't agree more...as a preop or optometry student you have no idea what the profession is like.

Also wonder what deans impressed him so much...very unlikely to find a Dean who ever practiced optometry.

 

[Shnurek]

Slick, I am positive neither Jason nor I have ever thought or said anything remotely like that. I grew up very poor. I served in combat in Panama and Kuwait (as an infantryman before OD school). I've earned more money than I ever thought I would have. I have my home paid off. I have many cars (I'm a classic car collector). I have investments. BUT.............and this is the big BUT, I did it at a time when it was realistic to do so in optometry. Since than, I've seen my income drop. I've seen ever ODs that I know have a progressive income drop over the past decade. It had nothing to do with what we were or weren't doing.

What advice would you give someone like me? What would you do in my position? Obviously you know exponentially more than me about the field. I chose optometry so I wouldn't become a debt slave among other reasons. Dentistry and Medicine would have not allowed me to live at home and I am not as interested in those fields.

 

[Jason K]

As a parallel here is a list of topics that dentists are complaining about: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=933581#6
Hmmm seems awfully similar to the whiners here.

God, Shnurek, another one of these desperate attempts to equalize optometry and dentistry...really? If, at this point, you still don't understand the difference between dentistry and optometry, specifically, the reason that dentistry will survive far longer than optometry in its current state, then no one can help you.....other than time and experience. Again, just because you imagined something a certain way in your head, and you want it to be true, doesn't mean it's will be.

James Gandolfini nearly walked away from the Sopranos because he was unahappy with his meager pay and wanted 800K per episode. So, by your logic, Hollywood superstardom and optometry are on equal planes because both professions have people in them who complain.

Let's also not forget that the last OD and DDS doctor interviews on this site are pretty good summaries of the entire professional outlook in both cases.

Dentist (orthodontist): "Heck yeah, I'd do it again!"
Optometrist: "Ummm...probably not, not if I had to start today."

Its OK people like Tippytoe and JasonK have certain complexes where they thought that if they became some sort of Doctor they would have boundless riches, boundless respect and an easy job.

Shnurek, do you ever stop making ridiculous assumptions? If I wanted "boundless riches," I certainly would have never entered optometry, or even medicine for that matter. There are far more lucrative professions. I also did not want or request an "easy job," so I"m not sure where that came from.

As usual, you want something to make "sense" in your head, so you create an imaginary world that makes it so. That's not the way the world works - sorry to be the bad news fairy.

This is most surely not the case with any type of Doctor. The comprehensive ophthalmologist I worked for was a really cool guy. And even he felt like an indentured servant. He had to pay off a $350,000 practice loan, his house mortgage which was also probably another $500,000, even though thankfully his parents paid for his medical school tuition. 1/3 of the time he was doing paperwork such as filling out charts or signing documents or writing surgical reports on the computer which he hated.

A 350K practice loan? Did the guy buy an OMD office in a Walmart? That sounds like a ridiculously low price for an ophthalmology practice, unless he worked 2 days per week. I have no idea why you brought up this example, other than to point the finger at the other guy and say "Look, look, they have it bad too!" You're grabbing at straws now.

You've been lured into the profession. The best thing you can do now is try to learn about the realities of what you'll be dealing with when you graduate, instead of trying to convince yourself that they are not really there.

 

[Tippytoe]

What advice would you give someone like me? What would you do in my position? Obviously you know exponentially more than me about the field. I chose optometry so I wouldn't become a debt slave among other reasons. Dentistry and Medicine would have not allowed me to live at home and I am not as interested in those fields.

Honestly, for you, since you are already in OD school and presumably, in debt, I'd suggest you make the best of it. The fact that you are on here debating (alright, arguing but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) shows you at least know what you're up against. That's one plus in your favor and you're one step ahead of your fellow students in the 10,000 mile journey.

Just know that school will probably be the easiest part of your optometric career. It's all uphill from here. If you are, like you say, willing to go wherever you're needed, to South Dakota or rural Mississippi, you'll probably do alright. Somewhere in the great U.S. there is bound to be some old guy running an OD welfare shop that is due to die within the next 5 years. Just gotta scope his office out before the other 10 OD vultures get there.

In other words, your bed is sorta made. For pre-OD students, I have an entirely different opinion..........and of course that's not to get in the bed in the first place .

If you don't have any debt, drop out now and pursue one of the other 5 or so health care fields we've talked about (ones with a positive outlook). That's my honest opinion. It's what I'm telling my own kids to do.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

.....

In other words, your bed is sorta made. For pre-od students, i have an entirely different opinion..........and of course that's not to get in the bed in the first place .

If you don't have any debt, drop out now and pursue one of the other 5 or so health care fields we've talked about (ones with a positive outlook). That's my honest opinion. It's what i'm telling my own kids to do.

+1

 

[Optomchick]

Honestly, for you, since you are already in OD school and presumably, in debt, I'd suggest you make the best of it. The fact that you are on here debating (alright, arguing but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) shows you at least know what you're up against. That's one plus in your favor and you're one step ahead of your fellow students in the 10,000 mile journey.

Just know that school will probably be the easiest part of your optometric career. It's all uphill from here. If you are, like you say, willing to go wherever you're needed, to South Dakota or rural Mississippi, you'll probably do alright. Somewhere in the great U.S. there is bound to be some old guy running an OD welfare shop that is due to die within the next 5 years. Just gotta scope his office out before the other 10 OD vultures get there.

In other words, your bed is sorta made. For pre-OD students, I have an entirely different opinion..........and of course that's not to get in the bed in the first place .

If you don't have any debt, drop out now and pursue one of the other 5 or so health care fields we've talked about (ones with a positive outlook). That's my honest opinion. It's what I'm telling my own kids to do.

So what's with there being no female ODs complaining on this site? Not to sound sexist, but maybe the Optometry field (like Nursing) is more suited to women that want to have kids and work-part time.

 

[Jason K]

So what's with there being no female ODs complaining on this site? Not to sound sexist, but maybe the Optometry field (like Nursing) is more suited to women that want to have kids and work-part time.

If all you're after is a two day per week gig that lands you in a refracting box somewhere, optometry is, and probably will be, just fine as a career choice. If you're looking to secure an income stream that will allow you to support a family, optometry will not likely be a good choice for you. I would imagine that the majority of men entering the profession are not thinking of themselves as future PT optometrists. A lot of the women in my graduating class (they out-numbered men 2:1) were planning on working FT for a while and then tapering off to PT. Of course, many of them worked PT from the start since they couldn't land a FT position.

 

[Shnurek]

I'd say optometry is a good profession for women. There is a lot of socialization involved and it has a great lifestyle.

 

[Shnurek]

Since than, I've seen my income drop. I've seen ever ODs that I know have a progressive income drop over the past decade. It had nothing to do with what we were or weren't doing.

I have evidence to the contrary: (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...XNgLAC&usg=AFQjCNHqaAsVnRJ9kWbJyLOXLE40UX229A)

In 2000, the median optometrist salary was around $82,000 while now it is around $96,000. So how exactly is that an overall drop in salary for everybody? Maybe your office just needs to get more efficient? Get on EMR, let the medical biller work from home and pay him/her on a claim by claim basis rather than hourly, put in a camera system or pretend to - to discourage thievery, hire older opticians/technicians because they would be less likely to move on to graduate school or another place, etc. etc. I don't know I am just throwing out random ideas that may or may not have any merit in real practice.

Here, I'll quote an individual from the dental forums as s/he summarizes my argument very well:

I'll start = my hypothesis is that no one knows. A physician told me once he was entering medicine Medicare was passing in the 60's and after he was a young attending his income kept growing and growing despite predictions of him living in poverty.

I have noticed a growing trend in the last few years which is the popularity of "futurists". People like to pretend they have crystal balls - they even talk about their predictions in the past tense or forget to add qualifiers such as "I think", "I predict", or "I forecast". In the end it's all BS and no one knows ****. Usually they're trying to sell a book along with their "prediction".

 

[Tippytoe]

I have evidence to the contrary: (In 2000, the median optometrist salary was around $82,000 while now it is around $96,000. So how exactly is that an overall drop in salary for everybody? Maybe your office just needs to get more efficient? Get on EMR, let the medical biller work from home and pay him/her on a claim by claim basis rather than hourly, put in a camera system or pretend to - to discourage thievery, hire older opticians/technicians because they would be less likely to move on to graduate school or another place, etc. etc. I don't know I am just throwing out random ideas that may or may not have any merit in real practice.

Here, I'll quote an individual from the dental forums as s/he summarizes my argument very well:

Yes, google is absolutely the best source for information. .

And what makes you think I do not have and do everything you mention above? Fact is, I've had a fully paperless office system since 2005 (as paperless as you can get). I have all my equipment set up to interface with my office software (very efficient). I have had cameras (with internet access) inside and outside my office since 2000. I use gotomypc to view my EMR from home or anywhere else. I utilized very well trained CPO's (certifed paraoptometrics---that I paid to train) to the fullest extent of my state law.

I have all the lastest equipment including an OCT, VF, B-scan, digital retinal camera, corneal pachymeter, etc.........My office is heavily medically-oriented (since I can't compete with the 25 commercial chain stores within 10 miles of my office selling $39 glasses- not to mention the other 50 ODs and 20 OMDs with the same radius). For the record, I'm in a moderate city of 200,000 residents.

So once again, you believe you have knowledge that no one else has thought of. Trust me, you have NO NEW info. Everything you can think of has been tried by many, many ODs. Please quit thinking you are going to be better and smarter than anyone else. You won't be. You'll be just another faceless OD in the growing crowd.

And once again, you can believe your google search or you can believe people that live the life everyday in the real world. Totally your choice. It's a free country.

An interesting article: http://www.reviewofcontactlenses.com/content/c/30276/

 

[NYCBlues]

So what's with there being no female ODs complaining on this site? Not to sound sexist, but maybe the Optometry field (like Nursing) is more suited to women that want to have kids and work-part time.

It's true that optometry can be a good career choice for women b/c it offers more flexibility and some even choose to work PT when they have kids (that is, if you have manageable or ZERO STUDENT LOANS). But for most of you, if not all of you out there, how are you going to make your student loan payments just working 1-2 days/wk? And you better hope that you will find a spouse who makes good money to support your family or else your family will be in financial crisis.

I am a female by the way if you haven't noticed. If you are married or if you will get married in the future, your family will struggle financially if you are the breadwinner. Other ODs have warned you on here that it's not easy to find a FT position with good benefits in this field and believe me they're not lying to you. On top of this, huge student loan payments will be a burden on your family and even put a strain on your relationship/marriage. TRUST ME ON THIS!!!! Well, unless you want to stay single for the rest of your life.

 

[NYCBlues]

Most of my friends and a few relatives are pharmacists. They work in retail. Long hours every day for probably around 110K a year. And honestly their attitude about the profession is nothing like this. They don't talk about welfare queens bitching; I mean they talk about this kind of stuff, but usually with an attitude of humor. They've said that it gets boring and whatnot, but I have never seen an attitude of pure misery with them. .

Yes we know pharmacists work retail and long hours. So you think us ODs don't work as hard? You want me to tell you why they don't seem to complain as much as we do? It's b/c at least they are guaranteed a salary of ~110-120K plus benefits, DUH! For us ODs, if you are working commercial and if you are the lease holder, our days are a "hit or miss" kinda thing. If you happen to see lots of patients, then you have a good day that day. But if you happen to see zero patients that day, then guess how much your take home is for that day? And trust me there are many days where you sit for long hours seeing NO ONE. So did I mention our income is determined on a day-to-day basis, not guaranteed like the pharmacists. So pharmacists are still far better off than many ODs out there.

Oh and if you work for a pp doc, sometimes you won't receive your paycheck on time b/c they don't have the money to pay you due to business being slow that month or you better look at your paycheck carefully to make sure they pay you the correct amount.

 

[NYCBlues]

One complaint that I think is genuine is the hight cost of schooling. I will admit that I am getting a decent amount of help from family for tuition and living. I am extremely thankful for this. I could understand the apprehension involving tuition fees. Excuse any errors, I have to leave and can't proof this.

I'd say if you are aware of the following or meet the following criteria, then by all means go to OD school and be an optometrist:

1) have low or manageable student loans debt when you graduate

2) okay with working part-time jobs here and there, or piece together numerous PT to obtain FT

3) your income will be supplemental, NOT the breadwinner for your family.

4) have no benefits whatsoever so you better hope your spouse will have good benefits to cover for you and your kids.

5) Do mostly refractions on your patients.

(So if you're in OD school now, don't feel all high and mighty b/c trust me you won't be using most of what you're trained for in ocular disease. So technically you're paying ~150K-200K to learn how to do a refraction in the real world. And if you're not getting a hang of refraction in OD school now, don't sweat it. Once you get out, you'll be doing it so many times over that you could do it with your eyes closed, literally!!!

If you're trying to understand and learn your neuro- or other ocular disease classes in OD school now so you can put it into practice later, don't worry about it. Learn it to pass your classes and earn your OD degree, but you won't be using most of it anyways when you're out practicing in the real world. )

6) if your parents/family are helping you with tuition/living expenses for OD school, why invest into a profession that will give you very little in return??? I could make really good use of the money they're helping you elsewhere.

You pre-opts and current OD students know so little about the current state of optometry.

 

[Tippytoe]

You pre-opts and current OD students know so little about the current state of optometry.

Oh now NYCBlues, you're just a loser OD like the rest of us. The students on this site are FAR more knowledgeable than any of us that have graduated OD school and made this profession our career.


Ya see, they've went in and talked to an OD or two and a few have worked the autorefractor at an ODs office so they must know everything about the profession. Certainly more than you or I or Jason or any other OD giving their honest opinions. See they have fresh, new ideas that are going to make them stand out and succeed far beyond anything we can imagine. Things like getting EMRs and putting up cameras and hiring mature people. Because up till now, no OD has ever thought of doing such radical things like these.


The only ODs that complain are the losers that are trying to keep the competition down (despite the fact that probably only 0.000001% of students even log on to SDN).


** All said with the utmost sarcasm possible on an internet forum.

 

[Shnurek]

All the city self-saturated ODs complain. Let's hear from rural ODs or other low population density areas.

 

[Shnurek]

Even the Dentists have started throwing low ball salaries around:

For a new grad, I think an appropriate salary range is likely $70k - $110k depending on where you are working and the type of office that you are in. Remember when you start, you are slow and if you're being paid on commission, you will not make nearly as much as you will when you are more experience.

Click on the little right pointing arrow to get to the original quote. I've been habitually browsing a lot of the professional SDN forums here and the general consensus is that negativity prevails.

 

[Shnurek]

And the ophthos too:

Eyeballs' 150k initial salary is not as sexy as the 350-400k initial starting salaries for Anesthesiologists or Radiologists.

 

[Jason K]

In 2000, the median optometrist salary was around $82,000 while now it is around $96,000. So how exactly is that an overall drop in salary for everybody?

Here's how.....It's a little thing called "inflation." An income of 82K in 2000 is equivalent to $109,300 when the CPI is taken into account. By my math, 109K is more than 96K.

Tell Obama to stop printing millions of sheets of $20s to pay off our debts to China. Bush was a little trigger happy with the printing press as well, but Obama has taken it to a whole new level.

Maybe your office just needs to get more efficient? Get on EMR, ....

I nearly soiled myself laughing from reading this. Shnurek, EMR and meaningful use is the last thing anyone can do to increase efficiency - sorry to burst your EMR bubble. It might help some folks who don't know how to code properly, but it certainly doesn't make things more efficient. I think you've been listening to too many OfficeMate webinars.

 

[NYCBlues]

All the city self-saturated ODs complain. Let's hear from rural ODs or other low population density areas.

My sn is misleading dear. I don't live in NYC as my sn implies. I currently reside in a state that has no OD school and is considered not very saturated.

I suggest that you print out these posts and frame them on your wall. And when you get out of OD school and reality hits you, then take a look at them and see for yourself then. By then you wish you could go back in time and change your fate.

Better be in shock now and be in shock when you got your OD degree and are in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

 

[Optomchick]

My sn is misleading dear. I don't live in NYC as my sn implies. I currently reside in a state that has no OD school and is considered not very saturated.

I suggest that you print out these posts and frame them on your wall. And when you get out of OD school and reality hits you, then take a look at them and see for yourself then. By then you wish you could go back in time and change your fate.

Better be in shock now and be in shock when you got your OD degree and are in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

hmm you're the first female OD i've met that's complained about their job...are you single? The OD I saw at Lenscrafters graduated in 2009 and is now working full-time with benefits in CA, I know she's an exception, but I really do think that the flexible hours and lifestyle of the OD fit well with females.

 

[NYCBlues]

Ya see, they've went in and talked to an OD or two and a few have worked the autorefractor at an ODs office so they must know everything about the profession. Certainly more than you or I or Jason or any other OD giving their honest opinions.

I remember having to do a summer assignment first yr of OD school where you had to shadow an OD in various settings. At the time, I couldn't wait when I could be like those ODs, doing the job that they do. In retrospect, what a joke that assignment was, b/c those ODs did not reveal to you anything about the economics or the state of optometry. All I did was sit in a dark room and observe their job and answer the required questions for the assignment based on my own observations/opinions and submit it. Now I wonder what was the purpose of that assignment?

And here you are getting FREE and VALUABLE advice (which you don't get elsewhere) and are still in denial. If you are in denial, like I already mentioned, print out these posts and frame them and take a look at them a few yrs from now.