Adcom members, is your school recieving significantly more applications this year than last?

[LuluLovesMe]

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I know the general trend is an increase in applications every year, but is the increase even more than you expected it would be? Has the pool of competitive applicants increased proportionally? I'm wondering if the change in MCAT formats has resulted in an abnormally large applicant pool.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

I definitely think this is the case. Coming from Cali, I know for a fact that my school and several other neighbor schools have a lot more pre-meds applying this year and let just say the majority of these applicants are at least decent (3.5+ and 29+). This cycle is just crazy competitive in my opinion.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I definitely think this is the case. Coming from Cali, I know for a fact that my school and several other neighbor schools have a lot more pre-meds applying this year and let just say the majority of these applicants are at least decent (3.5+ and 29+). This cycle is just crazy competitive in my opinion.

I picked the wrong cycle to apply I guess

 

[Goro]

Yes.

Last year the number was > 5000; this year my wily old Admissions Dean says that we'll probably go over 6000.

And yes, that quality of the candidates is much better than in previous years. It used to be, that for my school, maybe 1/5 interviewees had GPA and MCAT stats that were both in MD school territory.

Now, they're nearly all in MD territory! And this is without grade replacement either!

Just over the past few years, the LizzyM scores of the coastal Touros, CCOM and AZCOM have caught up to and even overlap a number of MD schools. I don't have the numbers to confirm my hunch, but it wouldn't surprise me if the scores for schools like Drexel and Albany have plateaued over the past few years.

I attribute this to several things:
The economy, while improving, does not appear to be improving all that much, and so medical school looks like a safe outlet for a good career
More acceptance for Osteopathy amongst pre-meds.
More competitive applicants on my side of the Missouri River settling for the opportunity to be a doctor without having to go a full continent away from home in order just to get the MD degree. Ie., coming here more attractive than, say, having to go to Valhalla or Albany, NY, Wash DC, or Winston-Salem NC.
A glut of lawyers and veterinarians (and maybe dentists?) is diverting a pool of otherwise talented people away from law etc and towards Medicine

I know the general trend is an increase in applications every year, but is the increase even more than you expected it would be? Has the pool of competitive applicants increased proportionally? I'm wondering if the change in MCAT formats has resulted in an abnormally large applicant pool.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

I picked the wrong cycle to apply I guess

Don't give up hope. I'm doing quite well in terms of IIs (MD only) with good but no where near awesome stats like a lot of my peers. I think the shift toward holistic review is becoming more prevalent. If you have a well-rounded application, I'm sure you'll hear good news soon.

 

[ivorypearls]

I picked the wrong cycle to apply I guess

I don't want to be a Debbie downer here but I don't think it's going to get any easier. I almost lol when current physicians ask for my MCAT and GPA and say, "Oh, you're going to get in for sure", when applicants with far higher stats have been rejected... Or when they ask which medical school I'll choose to go and think I'm just kidding when I say that I'll take whichever one that will accept me... I wish we were born in an earlier decade.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Yes.

Last year the number was > 5000; this year my wily old Admissions Dean says that we'll probably go over 6000.

And yes, that quality of the candidates is much better than in previous years. It used to be, that for my school, maybe 1/5 interviewees had GPA and MCAT stats that were both in MD school territory.

Now, they're nearly all in MD territory! And this is without grade replacement either!

Just over the past few years, the LizzyM scores of the coastal Touros, CCOM and AZCOM have caught up to and even overlap a number of MD schools. I don't have the numbers to confirm my hunch, but it wouldn't surprise me if the scores for schools like Drexel and Albany have plateaued over the past few years.

I attribute this to several things:
The economy, while improving, does not appear to be improving all that much, and so medical school looks like a safe outlet for a good career
More acceptance for Osteopathy amongst pre-meds.
More competitive applicants on my side of the Missouri River settling for the opportunity to be a doctor without having to go a full continent away from home in order just to get the MD degree. Ie., coming here more attractive than, say, having to go to Valhalla or Albany, NY, Wash DC, or Winston-Salem NC.
A glut of lawyers and veterinarians (and maybe dentists?) is diverting a pool of otherwise talented people away from law etc and towards Medicine

You think competition at lower tier MD programs has plateaued over the past few years?

 

[Goro]

That's my hunch. Alas, I don't have any data to back it up. Can any of you help?

You think competition at lower tier MD programs has plateaued over the past few years?

 

[NonTrad16]

I don't want to be a Debbie downer here but I don't think it's going to get any easier. I almost lol when current physicians ask for my MCAT and GPA and say, "Oh, you're going to get in for sure", when applicants with far higher stats have been rejected... Or when they ask which medical school I'll choose to go and think I'm just kidding when I say that I'll take whichever one that will accept me... I wish we were born in an earlier decade.

Without understanding the challenges inherent to that experience, I think it's better to look forward than assume anything about ourselves in some alternative past. For example, my mother MD was one of very few (single digits) women in her class.

 

[SoppyElk]

Without understanding the challenges inherent to that experience, I think it's better to look forward than assume anything about ourselves in some alternative past. For example, my mother MD was one of very few (single digits) women in her class.

Each generation faces its own set of challenges. Talking to a couple older doctors many people didn't want to see women in medicine back in the day because they felt that it took away from their duty to raise and nuture their children and home(look up refrigerator mother theory. Nasty stuff).

 

[GrapesofRath]

That's my hunch. Alas, I don't have any data to back it up. Can any of you help?

Compare the MSAR data from 2015 to 2012. IF you want 2012 data, google "MSAR 2012 sheet 1 Dartmouth". An excel file that says Sheet 1 with (XLS) is what you are looking for. You'll see all the MSAR data from 2012. The median stats are a little lower in 2012 than they are now, as are the 10th percentile stats. My guess therefore is that it is probably a little more competitive now than it was 3 years ago. I don't however think the competition has risen all that significantly; these jumps I'm talking about are more like "10th percentile GPA at Drexel of 3.36 in 2015 vs 3.30 in 2012".

I guess I'll ask what made you have the hunch that the competition has plateaued off? Also the one wildcard can be if any of these new MD schools that open up in the near future will show openness to OOS applicants. I know schools like Va Tech, Hofstra, Oakland and Quinnipac in recent years have and that's 4 more schools for borderline applicants which has definitely helped some people. We'll have to see when Seton Hall and other new MD's open up if they show a willingness to take OOS applicants because a lot of new schools of late like Riverside or FSU haven't.

 

[deleted600623]

I don't want to be a Debbie downer here but I don't think it's going to get any easier. I almost lol when current physicians ask for my MCAT and GPA and say, "Oh, you're going to get in for sure", when applicants with far higher stats have been rejected... Or when they ask which medical school I'll choose to go and think I'm just kidding when I say that I'll take whichever one that will accept me... I wish we were born in an earlier decade.

Just having high stats doesn't get you into medical school. It's becoming more and more of a holistic approach with ADCOMs. Yes you need to do well in your classes and on the MCAT but that's but a small portion of what dictates acceptance. Experience, passion, and drive have become more and more important in comparison to 20 years ago.

 

[ivorypearls]

Just having high stats doesn't get you into medical school. It's becoming more and more of a holistic approach with ADCOMs. Yes you need to do well in your classes and on the MCAT but that's but a small portion of what dictates acceptance. Experience, passion, and drive have become more and more important in comparison to 20 years ago.

Agreed, hence I almost lol'ed at the physicians. They were unfamiliar with the concept of holistic review and thought I would get in solely because of MCAT and GPA scores

 

[Goro]

I suspect that Seton Hall will have lots of New Yorkers to choose from...analogous to the UCs and Californians.

Compare the MSAR data from 2015 to 2012. IF you want 2012 data, google "MSAR 2012 sheet 1 Dartmouth". An excel file that says Sheet 1 with (XLS) is what you are looking for. You'll see all the MSAR data from 2012. The median stats are a little lower in 2012 than they are now, as are the 10th percentile stats. My guess therefore is that it is probably a little more competitive now than it was 3 years ago. I don't however think the competition has risen all that significantly; these jumps I'm talking about are more like "10th percentile GPA at Drexel of 3.36 in 2015 vs 3.30 in 2012".

I guess I'll ask what made you have the hunch that the competition has plateaued off? Also the one wildcard can be if any of these new MD schools that open up in the near future will show openness to OOS applicants. I know schools like Va Tech, Hofstra, Oakland and Quinnipac in recent years have and that's 4 more schools for borderline applicants which has definitely helped some people. We'll have to see when Seton Hall and other new MD's open up if they show a willingness to take OOS applicants because a lot of new schools of late like Riverside or FSU haven't.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I suspect that Seton Hall will have lots of New Yorkers to choose from...analogous to the UCs and Californians.

Do you think they will restrict themselves to almost all NJ residents only like Robert Woods and other programs in NJ have? I know UC Riverside only is interested in those from the Inland Empire; it seems like alot of these new schools be it FSU or Riverside or some other ones really seem to be targeting residents from their area only. On the other hand Cooper Rowan is a new NJ school to pop up and they seem to be taking some OOS applicants.

 

[Goro]

Bah! I had forgotten where Seton Hall was. My very first girlfriend went there for a year!

I suspect that they'll have their pick of NJ, PA and NY applicants.

Do you think they will restrict themselves to almost all NJ residents only like Robert Woods and other programs in NJ have? I know UC Riverside only is interested in those from the Inland Empire; it seems like alot of these new schools be it FSU or Riverside or some other ones really seem to be targeting residents from their area only. On the other hand Cooper Rowan is a new NJ school to pop up and they seem to be taking some OOS applicants.

 

[purplecricket]

I picked the wrong cycle to apply I guess

Starting to think the same thing over here. This cycle definitely seems weird in comparison to previous ones, but it's likely only going to get tougher as time goes on. I'm already planning what I'm going to do if I end up a reapplicant. Sigh. Or maybe I'll end up actually using my graduate degree. 🙄

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Compare the MSAR data from 2015 to 2012. IF you want 2012 data, google "MSAR 2012 sheet 1 Dartmouth". An excel file that says Sheet 1 with (XLS) is what you are looking for. You'll see all the MSAR data from 2012. The median stats are a little lower in 2012 than they are now, as are the 10th percentile stats. My guess therefore is that it is probably a little more competitive now than it was 3 years ago. I don't however think the competition has risen all that significantly; these jumps I'm talking about are more like "10th percentile GPA at Drexel of 3.36 in 2015 vs 3.30 in 2012".

I guess I'll ask what made you have the hunch that the competition has plateaued off? Also the one wildcard can be if any of these new MD schools that open up in the near future will show openness to OOS applicants. I know schools like Va Tech, Hofstra, Oakland and Quinnipac in recent years have and that's 4 more schools for borderline applicants which has definitely helped some people. We'll have to see when Seton Hall and other new MD's open up if they show a willingness to take OOS applicants because a lot of new schools of late like Riverside or FSU haven't.

FSU was founded in 2001 so I wouldn't really call it that new. The newer Florida schools (FIU, FAU, UCF) have been been a bit more tolerant of OOS students, about 25% of their class is OOS. USC Greenville, another new MD, takes about 1/3 OOS. I don't know if any of these schools have taken enough OOS students to make a significant dent in the overall system though.

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

Competition is rising. It's the same story every year. Idk why you guys are surprised.

One thing to watch out for is decreased WL movement. I applied last cycle and was on a couple of waitlists. Mid to early June, I recall that one waitlist specifically sent all waitlisted applicants emails noting they did not expect anymore waitlist movement because they were able to fill their class earlier than normal that year. I presume that meant that more acceptees held onto their spots than they expected.

 

[Goro]

If you look at the stats of these accepted, it's much harder for an OOSer to land the II, much less the accept. That's why merely looking at the IS/OOS of the matriculating class can be misleading.

I suspect that at schools like these, there is a significant tie to the state (and not in the order of "my sister lives there") and/or the stats of the applicant are really good.

FSU was founded in 2001 so I wouldn't really call it that new. The newer Florida schools (FIU, FAU, UCF) have been been a bit more tolerant of OOS students, about 25% of their class is OOS. USC Greenville, another new MD, takes about 1/3 OOS. I don't know if any of these schools have taken enough OOS students to make a significant dent in the overall system though.

 

[Jennyfishy]

Our school also supposedly hit a new record number of applications this year, but it isn't outrageously higher (+several hundred, especially since a handful are reapps). I've seen stats at both extremes (we have interviewed the full gamut of high/low GPA/MCAT mixes to the 4.0/40+ MCAT).

On our end, I wouldn't say that the competition is more fierce this year (true that stat averages are a little higher) compared to any other year - there are still a ton of academically qualified applicants who have the most ridiculous app killers/red flags (aside from being boring, cookie-cutter, etc). Just more individual apps for us to sift through to find the "hidden" gems .

 

[PaulineStay]

it seems like every year there are more applicants

 

[CaffeinatedForLife]

Our school also supposedly hit a new record number of applications this year, but it isn't outrageously higher (+several hundred, especially since a handful are reapps). I've seen stats at both extremes (we have interviewed the full gamut of high/low GPA/MCAT mixes to the 4.0/40+ MCAT).

On our end, I wouldn't say that the competition is more fierce this year (true that stat averages are a little higher) compared to any other year - there are still a ton of academically qualified applicants who have the most ridiculous app killers/red flags (aside from being boring, cookie-cutter, etc). Just more individual apps for us to sift through to find the "hidden" gems .

My curiosity is piqued...

 

[gyngyn]

My curiosity is piqued...

Jail time for violent felony, active psychosis...

 

[16candles]

Jail time for violent felony, active psychosis...

Too bad you can't give them a psychiatric referral for the benefit of society. You know, in lieu of an acceptance.

 

[gyngyn]

Too bad you can't give them a psychiatric referral for the benefit of society. You know, in lieu of an acceptance.

We call the letter writers and ask them to do a safety check.

 

[occams_razor]

Compare the MSAR data from 2015 to 2012. IF you want 2012 data, google "MSAR 2012 sheet 1 Dartmouth". An excel file that says Sheet 1 with (XLS) is what you are looking for. You'll see all the MSAR data from 2012. The median stats are a little lower in 2012 than they are now, as are the 10th percentile stats. My guess therefore is that it is probably a little more competitive now than it was 3 years ago. I don't however think the competition has risen all that significantly; these jumps I'm talking about are more like "10th percentile GPA at Drexel of 3.36 in 2015 vs 3.30 in 2012".

I guess I'll ask what made you have the hunch that the competition has plateaued off? Also the one wildcard can be if any of these new MD schools that open up in the near future will show openness to OOS applicants. I know schools like Va Tech, Hofstra, Oakland and Quinnipac in recent years have and that's 4 more schools for borderline applicants which has definitely helped some people. We'll have to see when Seton Hall and other new MD's open up if they show a willingness to take OOS applicants because a lot of new schools of late like Riverside or FSU haven't.

Hofstra has fairly high stats (34 avg mcat) and a small class size. Even though it's a new school it's really not one I'd consider as being for borderline applicants

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Hofstra has fairly high stats (34 avg mcat) and a small class size. Even though it's a new school it's really not one I'd consider as being for borderline applicants

Just because they accept alot of high stat applicants doesnt mean they matriculate there. Also plenty of people who are borderline for reasons other than MCAT (bad GPA, no ECs, horrible interviewer/PS writer)

 

[Jennyfishy]

My curiosity is piqued...

Let's just say that at this point, IAs that are definite application killers like plagiarism, assault, etc. are little crumbs compared to some of the potential serial killers we've come across..

My favorite one is still when I happened to review an applicant who I didn't know personally, but caught them blatantly lying on their application (exaggerated hours, made up reference, lied about their contribution) since they happened to list several activities I was involved in as well as people I knew who had nothing to do with their projects. The med world is a lot smaller than you think it is!

 

[occams_razor]

Just because they accept alot of high stat applicants doesnt mean they matriculate there. Also plenty of people who are borderline for reasons other than MCAT (bad GPA, no ECs, horrible interviewer/PS writer)

that data is for students who are attending hofstra.. also, if someone has a bad gpa, no EC's and a horrible interview/PS they probably aren't going to get into a US MD school period. for MD schools a borderline applicant is more likely someone with a 3.5/28 and decent ECs. this hypothetical person could maybe get into one of the newer or lower tier MD programs, but I stand by my opinion that they don't have great odds at a school like hofstra which although it is new, has a 10th percentile MCAT score of 30

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

that data is for students who are attending hofstra.. also, if someone has a bad gpa, no EC's and a horrible interview/PS they probably aren't going to get into a US MD school period. for MD schools a borderline applicant is more likely someone with a 3.5/28 and decent ECs. this hypothetical person could maybe get into one of the newer or lower tier MD programs, but I stand by my opinion that they don't have great odds at a school like hofstra which although it is new, has a 10th percentile MCAT score of 30

If you are using MSAR or the Hofstra website it is for admitted, not matriculated students (http://medicine.hofstra.edu/admission/md/mdadmissions_application_process.html).

And there are certainly other kinds of marginal applicants besides those with low MCATs. We can debate who will get into hofstra all day but I'd rather not derail this thread further.

 

[CaffeinatedForLife]

Jail time for violent felony, active psychosis...

Let's just say that at this point, IAs that are definite application killers like plagiarism, assault, etc. are little crumbs compared to some of the potential serial killers we've come across..

My favorite one is still when I happened to review an applicant who I didn't know personally, but caught them blatantly lying on their application (exaggerated hours, made up reference, lied about their contribution) since they happened to list several activities I were involved in as well as people I knew who had nothing to do with their projects. The med world is a lot smaller than you think it is!

I had no idea. Let's just say I have a whole new appreciation for the public service that Adcoms render to our society.

 

[Dohnut]