Adderall - where are they getting it from?

[mudshadow]

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[Law2Doc]

MS2 here. I would say a good 25% of my class is on Adderall. How are ALL these people getting access to this drug? They can't all be ADHD...

That is between them and their diagnosing physicians. There are no legal ways to obtain such drugs without a prescription. I think in addition to ADD/ADHD, some may prescribe it for narcolepsy or severe depression.

SDN is not a proper forum for locating an illicit source, if that's what you are suggesting.

 

[RockShox]

MS2 here. I would say a good 25% of my class is on Adderall. How are ALL these people getting access to this drug? They can't all be ADHD...

I may be wrong but I think we may have read way more into the OP's question than is there. I don't think they are asking for the place they can buy this stuff but just pointing out the current trend by medical students to use these drugs to get ahead.

If that is the case I think this is a very good topic for SDN.

While of course you need a doctors prescription I know there are professors who will write the script if the students says they need it. I think it is unfortunate and counterproductive. I don't know how many of our students are on these things but there are a number of them. And the real problem is that they work and work well and thus could lead to dependency IMO. Its also possible that the ADD crowd is more prevelant in medicine but who knows. I wonder if a study has ever been done into this.

 

[Law2Doc]

Its also possible that the ADD crowd is more prevelant in medicine but who knows.

Yeah, this is the flaw in having such a discussion. OP is assuming that there aren't a ton of people in this field who legitimately have a diagnosis necessitating such meds and that they are being abused for some academic advantage. Hard to know, but by taking such position, you are accusing the prescribing physicians of malpractice. I think you want facts before you assume this.

 

[Petechiae]

A lot of people in my class are on these drugs too. A good deal of them have docs for parents who will write them the Rx.

 

[ZagDoc]

A tangent question: Concerning students out there who use Adderall to study who do not have a diagnosable condition necessitating ADD medications (and they are out there), do you consider this cheating on the students part?

I know I was tempted to try it, especially before the MCAT, hearing about such great results people got from it. But I balked at the legal/ethical/personal issues. Just curious what other peoples take is.

 

[Reimat]

While I'm sure most people are legitimately on such meds, I have had friends tell me that they have tried adderal from siblings with scripts or from other friends. I don't think it is a question that med students abuse drugs - I'd say 80-90% use caffeine regularly. However, I think most students using controlled drugs regularly to study actually believe they have a mental issue (ADD/ADHD) - and thus are going through their PCPs to get scripts, not borrowing/buying from friends. It's so easy to get prescribed adderal that there is almost no reason to try to obtain it illegally.

 

[europun]

The issue is simple....people are complicated.....

U ask y ppl take the drug: it allows u to glue ur ass to a chair and read for 12 hrs without thinking about food or water...if its imoral to take a substance that allows u to do this inhumane task then maybe we should re-evaluate the entire system of medical education. And if were gonna blame the medical establishment then isnt it a critic of american society as a whole. All i know is that i wont stand here and let u people bash america!!


the fact that certain individuals are bothered by what other ppl put in their bodies is more troubling to me than the ppl actually doing it

 

[deleted77919]

the fact that certain individuals are bothered by what other ppl put in their bodies is more troubling to me than the ppl actually doing it

So are you ok with athletes taking steroids? Many people take them because they think without them they can not compete, despite the negative health effects. Should this not be legislated against?

 

[ZagDoc]

the fact that certain individuals are bothered by what other ppl put in their bodies is more troubling to me than the ppl actually doing it

How can you go into medicine and NOT care about this???? If you see an OD patient for the 5th time in the ER, you're telling me you wouldn't try at ALL to convince them to clean up? It's "their choice"?

 

[SomeDoc]

This thread is disturbing on so many levels...

 

[da8s0859q]

How can you go into medicine and NOT care about this???? If you see an OD patient for the 5th time in the ER, you're telling me you wouldn't try at ALL to convince them to clean up? It's "their choice"?

Well, yes, it is. After leading a horse to water a billion times, I think a policy of "f*ck it, do as you will" expressed as a half-hearted "hey, listen, you need to stop jerking around and do something for your goddamn self" is sound in order to preserve your own sanity.

 

[msundi83]

So are you ok with athletes taking steroids? Many people take them because they think without them they can not compete, despite the negative health effects. Should this not be legislated against?

I am. Risk/reward. Besides, steroids can be used with minimal risk when one knows what they are doing and gets regular bloodwork. There are iron addicts who have been taking these things for years and they are in better shape than the average American. Steroids, like other common substances, get a bad rep because of *****s (and teenagers). Steroids are not causing people to drop dead left and right and despite what the media will tell you are not causing Chris Benoit to kill himself and his family.

 

[mirakate]

The issue is simple....people are complicated.....

U ask y ppl take the drug: it allows u to glue ur ass to a chair and read for 12 hrs without thinking about food or water...if its imoral to take a substance that allows u to do this inhumane task then maybe we should re-evaluate the entire system of medical education. And if were gonna blame the medical establishment then isnt it a critic of american society as a whole. All i know is that i wont stand here and let u people bash america!!

the fact that certain individuals are bothered by what other ppl put in their bodies is more troubling to me than the ppl actually doing it

God, I hope you don't really talk/write like that. Besides the lack of grammar and spelling, your 'argument' earns a ticket on the failboat for the following reasons: the 'American' thing is basically a violation of Godwin's Law, you're using an ad hominem attack, and you're making pseudo-grandiose statements without any backup.

OP: As to where they're getting it, I can only second everyone else's ideas. It's very troubling, though. If you can't make it through medschool without drugs, how are you going to do residency and practice?

 

[SupaManu]

I am. Risk/reward. Besides, steroids can be used with minimal risk when one knows what they are doing and gets regular bloodwork. There are iron addicts who have been taking these things for years and they are in better shape than the average American. Steroids, like other common substances, get a bad rep because of *****s (and teenagers). Steroids are not causing people to drop dead left and right and despite what the media will tell you are not causing Chris Benoit to kill himself and his family.

Amen, there is so much information and media bias/agenda regarding steroids...they can be used w/minimal risk as u stated.

 

[msundi83]

God, I hope you don't really talk/write like that. Besides the lack of grammar and spelling, your 'argument' earns a ticket on the failboat for the following reasons: the 'American' thing is basically a violation of Godwin's Law, you're using an ad hominem attack, and you're making pseudo-grandiose statements without any backup.

OP: As to where they're getting it, I can only second everyone else's ideas. It's very troubling, though. If you can't make it through medschool without drugs, how are you going to do residency and practice?

I think he might have been joking a little with regards to the America argument.

 

[DickyV]

A tangent question: Concerning students out there who use Adderall to study who do not have a diagnosable condition necessitating ADD medications (and they are out there), do you consider this cheating on the students part?

Adderall/Ritalin for those people is an illegal substance that gives an unnatural advantage to them in studying for exams. While I don't consider it cheating, I do believe that it is a form of academic dishonesty.

 

[GreenShirt]

Apparently you can just buy it online from overseas pharmacies. My roommates boyfriend did that and would actually pay three times the price so that the company wouldn't "go under". He was pre-med, of course, probably will continue using in med school. And you better believe it's immoral, wrong and not what a decent person would do. Unfortunately, there's no way for med schools to screen out good people from bad people. These will be the same doctors who will later cut corners, bend rules and do whatever it takes to get ahead.

 

[Law2Doc]

Apparently you can just buy it online from overseas pharmacies. My roommates boyfriend did that and would actually pay three times the price so that the company wouldn't "go under".

Unlike the folks who are getting dubious prescriptions, buying a medicine online from an overseas pharmacy is actually a federal crime. And actually somewhat dangerous as you don't really know what other things get mixed into foreign made meds -- there is no regulation at all (there are many cases of folks getting sick from overseas bodybuilding supplements, black market viagra, etc). So this dude is being pretty foolish in multiple ways, even if you have no problem with him actually using Adderall.

 

[MossPoh]

Unlike the folks who are getting dubious prescriptions, buying a medicine online from an overseas pharmacy is actually a federal crime. And actually somewhat dangerous as you don't really know what other things get mixed into foreign made meds -- there is no regulation at all (there are many cases of folks getting sick from overseas bodybuilding supplements, black market viagra, etc). So this dude is being pretty foolish in multiple ways, even if you have no problem with him actually using Adderall.

Foolish is the light way to put it... If you are that desperate at least brush up your acting skills, drinking 16 cups of coffee and get diagnosed with ADD...then at least you are using a crutch that comes from a safe source.

 

[da8s0859q]

Apparently you can just buy it online from overseas pharmacies. My roommates boyfriend did that and would actually pay three times the price so that the company wouldn't "go under". He was pre-med, of course, probably will continue using in med school. And you better believe it's immoral, wrong and not what a decent person would do. Unfortunately, there's no way for med schools to screen out good people from bad people. These will be the same doctors who will later cut corners, bend rules and do whatever it takes to get ahead.

I wouldn't do it, but... well, morality is pretty much shades of gray.

 

[RockShox]

My concern with this practice of using these things for med school, without medical necessity, has nothing to do with their health (I don't care), or their brains (clearly lacking), or whether its like steriods and ethical...blah, blah, blah. My concern is that if they think the first two years are hard wait till the next one. And lets not stop there how about internship year? Do you think a little pill is going to be strong enough to overcome an attending throwing a surgical object in your direction and calling you a *******? doubt it...taking these things if they are not medically necessary will only delay the inevitable "coming to jesus" event that awaits them.

 

[RandomGuy]

That is between them and their diagnosing physicians. There are no legal ways to obtain such drugs without a prescription. I think in addition to ADD/ADHD, some may prescribe it for narcolepsy or severe depression.

SDN is not a proper forum for locating an illicit source, if that's what you are suggesting.

Oh that's why 25% of my class is on adderall. They're narcoleptic!

 

[Petechiae]

morality is pretty much shades of gray.

This is is so true.

 

[alwaysaangel]

morality is pretty much shades of gray.

This is is so true.

Do you have any idea how many type A, neurotic med students' heads just exploded because of this quote! How dare you say something like that!!!

 

[doctorp82]

Oh that's why 25% of my class is on adderall. They're narcoleptic!

Doctor to Med Student: "Do you suffer from excessive daytime sleepiness?"
Med Student: "😴"

I wonder if anyone ever tries Provigil to stay awake and alert.

 

[RandomGuy]

Doctor to Med Student: "Do you suffer from excessive daytime sleepiness?"
Med Student: "😴"

I wonder if anyone ever tries Provigil to stay awake and alert.

Actually...I looked into Provigil. Unfortunately, it's an expensive pill. Insurance only covers it if you have diagnosed narcolepsy or fatigue as a result of MS, or something along those lines. Even if you can get a prescription off-label, it's like $5 a pill. Not much more expensive than starbucks, come to think of it.

 

[LJDHC05]

Actually...I looked into Provigil. Unfortunately, it's an expensive pill. Insurance only covers it if you have diagnosed narcolepsy or fatigue as a result of MS, or something along those lines. Even if you can get a prescription off-label, it's like $5 a pill. Not much more expensive than starbucks, come to think of it.

I hear that methamphetamine works just as well and is even cheaper. You can even make it in your kitchen with those useless orgo synthesis skills that you were forced to learn back in undergrad...🙄

 

[Law2Doc]

You can even make it in your kitchen with those useless orgo synthesis skills that you were forced to learn back in undergrad...🙄

Once you are going to all that effort, it probably pays to just spend the time in a book actually studying. From what I can tell the top students in most med school classes aren't meth heads. They might be high from sniffing too many highlighters, though.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Once you are going to all that effort, it probably pays to just spend the time in a book actually studying. From what I can tell the top students in most med school classes aren't meth heads. They might be high from sniffing too many highlighters, though.

I'm going to be in the top of the class!

 

[rainbowman]

They use Dr. Wilson's prescription pad

 

[Petechiae]

Do you have any idea how many type A, neurotic med students' heads just exploded because of this quote! How dare you say something like that!!!

It's good for them 😀

 

[rajad10]

.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

I don't feel it is that hard to get an Adderall prescription. One could potentially just look up the DSM-IV criteria for ADHD inattentive subtype, tell a physician that they've always had that, it took them much much longer time to study for the MCAT compared to others, and tried a friend's prescription and grades suddenly improved, better able to concentrate/focus, etc., but another person's (say) methylphenydate didn't work as well. This person should just accept whatever the physician says and suggests, many doctors will legitimately give the prescription as long as they feel they feel they are in control and not being taken for a ride. The key issue for any prescriber is reward (better performance in school) vs risk (medical- ie. addiction, side effects... patient's lower academic performance, etc.). I think the same strategy would work for other drugs people benefit from (hair loss, sleeping, weight loss, etc.). In many cases physicians are sympathetic. People I've spoken to have had success looking up psychiatrists who specialize in ADHD, and family physicians... However, I would think that any doctor at any university student health clinic would get the "give me adderall" request many many times and not be very sympathetic at all.

CNS stimulants aren't for everyone. They can make people agitated, impulsive, and angry... not to mention the cardiovascular risks (palpitations etc.) They aren't a panacea for everyone's problem either. This one premed idiot I knew from undergrad used to buy adderall from friends, but I don't feel it ever helped him: his problem was that he didn't really know how to learn, and "more time to study" through adderall wasn't helping him do better in school. Fortunately or unfortunately, success in med school is almost directly correlated with time invested in studying, since the material isn't really a great intellectual challenge to master.

I'm on the border about this issue. I don't think it's a big deal and I don't think the advantage conferred to the abusers is really worth too much.

 

[gouda]

I wonder if the people taking adderall will continue to take it...forever?

A girl in my class told her doc she had ADD right before med school and now she has been taking it since then. She wants to be a neurosurgeon along with top of our class, volunteer of the year...etc. If she is taking it to cope now, realistically when does the pressure stop? Med school is difficult, but so is residency and practicing medicine and starting a family....the list goes on. Would she still be the same person - grades and attitude without it?

 

[werd]

so, it seems that some people need to study so much that stimulants help them out. perhaps it's some form of justice that the people who do that live a life in which (wait for it) they study all the time. and that would suck.

as a sidenote, i'm unsure what that check mark icon means... maybe "check it,"?

 

[Trindelinberg]

I don't think it's wrong for a person to take stimulants to study and improve grades. Having said that, in medical school it would be unrealistic to depend on Adderall. You have to study 4-7 hours a day, everyday to be in the top of the class. You just can't take that much adderall and remain normal. Plus, you have small groups to attend and patients to interact with, how the hell would you function all wired up on adderall? I can see someone prepping for big exams like the MCAT or the USMLE's with a little help from adderall, but for the daily demands of a med school it would be ridiculous.

 

[Cirrus83]

Come on, any respectable med student should be synthesizing their own amphetamines for studying...what was the point of all that orgo otherwise?

More seriously though, I do consider it a sort of cheating. Not cheating in the traditional sense, but cheating as far as rigging the odds.

But then again, I don't really believe that anything ever comes free, and chronically taking adderall or ritalin when you don't actually have ADD will probably catch up with you some day.

I find it somewhat disturbing that some parents would be willing to script up their kids just to help them study...that's really wack.

 

[Cirrus83]

I wonder if the people taking adderall will continue to take it...forever?

A girl in my class told her doc she had ADD right before med school and now she has been taking it since then. She wants to be a neurosurgeon along with top of our class, volunteer of the year...etc. If she is taking it to cope now, realistically when does the pressure stop? Med school is difficult, but so is residency and practicing medicine and starting a family....the list goes on. Would she still be the same person - grades and attitude without it?

That and the fact that your brain might eventually become dependent on it just to maintain a decent attention span, lol.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

/me takes a swig of Diet Coke to keep his attention span going while he slaves away making histology quizzes. 😴

 

[jdh71]

Another point I didn't see adressed (I scanned, not read everything, so zing me if you like), but the risk for chemical dependence and problems in this arena is much higher in a person who does not have ADD. You run the real risk of one daying crushing up that bad boy, setting out a line, rolling up a dollar bill (y'all), and snorting that summabiznitch - then, my friendlys, you are off and running. Drink, dance, party all night . . . suddenly you're not using the drug to study anymore . . .

Anyone who thinks this is child's play and perfectly fine for their advantage needs to know they are playing with fire . . .

 

[kronickm]

Just chiming in here. Ritalin/Adderall was the A+ number one abused drug at my college, moreso then weed, coke or anything except maybe alcohol.

Now, a testimonial. I have diagnosed ADHD since elementary school (whatever ADHD actually is). I resisted my parents and did not take ritalin/atterall despite my being perscribed since I thought I was fine. I did quite well in school w/o the drugs. When I got to college, I took a friend's adderall one time for this paper that I had to write overnight. I instantly noticed an amazing transformation. This was supposed to be a 10 page paper and within 3-5 hours of starting it I had about 20 pages written.

These stimulants are no joke however. I saw many people who would not eat for like 2 days because they were on so much ritalin. You could just tell that it was finals/mid-term week by standing outside the library and seeing all the emaciated, pale sickly looking people walking out after a 24 hour ritalin/adderall binge. It is important to note that there is, likewise with any drug, a major difference between use and abuse, and one must tread carefully not to fall into the latter category.

To this day, I have a script for adderall from my normal pcp. I almost never take it though, only when I need to put in a good 5-6 hours worth of work. When I do start med school I will certainly be taking it. It is very simple, I have a great deal of trouble sitting still and focusing for hours, adderall helps out a great deal with it. I see no reason how a legally (for me at least) obtained drug that does its job and does it well, with little to no side effects (loss of apetite and a desire to smoke cigarettes frequently) could possibly be academically dishonest.

Moral of the story. I have ADHD and adderall works wonders for me when I need to study. I am very cautious, however, not to use it when it is not needed.


Edit:
I guess it wasn't obvious from my tale, but Adderall is by no means medically necessary for me as I do not take it in my everyday life and I get by just fine. I can tell you though that the best analogy I have ever heard of ADHD is that it is like watching t.v. with the channel changing constantly and you are not in control of the remote. Adderall gives me that control when I really need it.

 

[DickyV]

I see no reason how a legally (for me at least) obtained drug that does its job and does it well, with little to no side effects (loss of apetite and a desire to smoke cigarettes frequently) could possibly be academically dishonest.

I agree with you - as long as the drugs are legally obtained.

To me, only people who illegally obtain Ritalin (either via a dealer, a friend or by giving a dishonest history to a family physician) are being academically dishonest.

 

[indiamacbean]

I think the worst part of this whole thread is that in case you guys aren't aware of this, grades in the first two years of medical school don't really matter and you should learn what you can for your own knowledge and to do well on step1. to take stimulants in order to perform well ever is stupid but to take them in order to ace your pre clinical classes is just terrible. it may seem that those people who are taking stimulants have an "unfair" advantage but really they aren't gaining anything in the end and depending on how things go can really hurt themselves over the long haul. whats the next step when you start internship and you are up every third or fourth night? blowing coke to pre round in the morning and stay awake at conference to impress your PD?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Edit:
I guess it wasn't obvious from my tale, but Adderall is by no means medically necessary for me as I do not take it in my everyday life and I get by just fine. I can tell you though that the best analogy I have ever heard of ADHD is that it is like watching t.v. with the channel changing constantly and you are not in control of the remote. Adderall gives me that control when I really need it.

I'm confused. How can you have a disease that doesn't affect your everyday life? I mean, what kind of disease has no symptoms, has no adverse affect on your performance and well-being, and something that you don't notice until test/work time?

It's like me saying that I use caffeine because I have this tiredness and sleeping disease. I don't know, that biological disease that requires me to sleep every night. 🙄

 

[DickyV]

It's like me saying that I use caffeine because I have this tiredness and sleeping disease. I don't know, that biological disease that requires me to sleep every night. 🙄

No way - I have that, too!

Think we can start a support group? 😀