Adderol--anyone NOT with ADD taking it?

[Gleevec]

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NikkiFSU,
Do you realize that your posts make you sound like a hyperactive overaggressive egomaniac? Have you considered that the first two aspects of that might be, gasp, abusing amphetamines?

I would like to believe you are diagnosed with ADHD, but based on your posts and the passive-agressive defensive stance you take towards illegal drug users, I think one can conclude that you were either fishing for a diagnosis when you in fact do not have the disease or that you're lying to us.

And if you cant take the heat, get out of the fire. If you're not prepared to have someone report you for illegally abusing a Schedule II amphetamine, then stop using it. Doctors have to be more responsible than just about everyone else (except Pharmacists) in not abusing drugs, so your standards are completely out of whack if you think people should let doctors slide on this-- doctors and future doctors are held to a higher standard because only they have the authority to prescribe such medications.

Seriously, you wonder why doctors have such high drug abuse rates. Its because of delusional gunners on this thread who think its OK to abuse drugs. What a load of crap.

 

[SaltySqueegee]

"doctors and future doctors are held to a higher standard because only they have the authority to prescribe such medications."

That's awesome... hehehehahah...... This statement totally reminded me of a possible MCAT prompt. Sorry... still can't get the damn test out of my mind... and almost 2years later...

 

[Gleevec]

That's awesome... hehehehahah...... This statement totally reminded me of a possible MCAT prompt. Sorry... still can't get the damn test out of my mind... and almost 2years later...

LOL that wasnt my goal but maybe it should be the basis for a prompt 😉

 

[kinetic]

NikkiFSU,
Seriously, you wonder why doctors have such high drug abuse rates. Its because of delusional gunners on this thread who think its OK to abuse drugs. What a load of crap.

The only thing I take issue with, Gleevec, is that being a druggie like NikkiFSU has nothing to do with being a gunner or a physician. Most physicians are very responsible. Unfortunately, since physicians are drawn from the general population, there are also a small fraction of physicians who - like the population from which they come - are irresponsible and immature. And if you really want to get down to it, the proportion of people who think drug use is OK is far greater in the general population than in physicians. NikkiFSU's need to "get loaded every now and then" and her silly rationalization that accepting drug use and culture is hip, with-it, and progressive is much the same as those of many patients. Most people grow up; some people take longer.

 

[Gleevec]

Most people grow up; some people take longer.

I wish what you said was true, but if you were right, physician drug abuse rates would be as low or lower than that of the general population. Yet they are not, they have one of the highest abuse rates of any profession, so obviously people aren't growing up. And I think you can see why people aren't growing up by reading these threads rationalizing their use.

I mean, most of these people consider this all one big game and that they can use any advantage they have, including illegal drugs. How is this not being a gunner? When you take the attitude that this is all a game and that there are no rules, then you have already mentally primed yourself to justify drug use. I wish 100% of these people could grow up, but thats simply not the case, which is why physicians continually have the highest drug abuse rates of any profession in the nation.

 

[Blade28]

If you're going to use it (without a diagnosis of ADHD or adult ADD)...just be careful. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[stoic]

Geez.... this thread is exciting. Sorta like watching pro wrestling but with bigger words!

My take:

In a "moral vacuum" there is nothing inherently wrong with using any drug, be it "perscription," OTC, or illegal. Substance use is a personal decision that can have important consequences for the user. Abuse and addiction are both examples of the potential consequences. These consequences, however, are generally personal in nature and therefore the use of any drug should be soley the decision of potential user.

In the "real world" illegal use of drugs (either because of non-perscription use or because of use illegal substances) has the potential to be extremely dangerous to the future physician/practicing physician. Doctors do have an extremely high rate of drug abuse compared to other occupations. This is likely due to a combination of physician personalities, drug access, and the stressful nature of the training/job. Because of this using any drug illegally is taken very seriously by the DEA. Physicians who are caught using illegally do often times lose everything.

In my mind, this is not particuarly fair. Especially given the questionable nature of some drug laws in this country (IE marijuana). HOWEVER, fair or not, things are they way they are. I used to smoke pot, and I don't anymore specifically because it's not worth risking my future DEA # to catch a buzz and laugh extra hard while watching South Park.

So, those who use adderall w/o a script may help their performance on a particular test. However, they may also get busted. I do believe that possession of a schedule II drug w/o a script is a felony (could be wrong... I know selling schedule II drugs is) which would pretty much end that persons hopes of becoming a physician. And if that were to happen, then it doesn't really matter how they do on that test, does it?

Now, I'm tired of talking about this. I'm gonna go drink a case of beer... because in this country, that's ok.

Dave

 

[kinetic]

I've got no problem with people using drugs, as long as they only affect themselves (which is totally different from asking if I respect people whose lives are so pointless that they need to take some substance to feel good). However, the real world being what it is, people who use drugs DO affect the rest of us, both indirectly and directly. Why should we expend ANY resources no matter how minute on some drunkard who crashes into a car and kills an innocent driver? That guy's lucky we don't just beat him to death on the spot (and if it were up to me, that would be fitting justice). Gangs battle for premium drug locations, killing innocent civilians in the crossfire and all we do is throw them in jail to cool their heels for a few years.

 

[stoic]

I've got no problem with people using drugs, as long as they only affect themselves (which is totally different from asking if I respect people whose lives are so pointless that they need to take some substance to feel good). However, the real world being what it is, people who use drugs DO affect the rest of us, both indirectly and directly. Why should we expend ANY resources no matter how minute on some drunkard who crashes into a car and kills an innocent driver? That guy's lucky we don't just beat him to death on the spot (and if it were up to me, that would be fitting justice). Gangs battle for premium drug locations, killing innocent civilians in the crossfire and all we do is throw them in jail to cool their heels for a few years.

Your response has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand. Med students aren't taking adderall to "feel good." A med student using adderall to study for a test really doesn't hurt anyone with the exception of that med student (both in terms of health and career ramifacations). We help drunk drivers because 1 dead person is better than 2. Presumably as a future physician you understand this concept. And finally, I don't think that that adderall is likely to become a major "gang" drug.

Though this also doesn't address the OP, I do feel the need to hijack this thread (only briefly, I promise) to point out one thing. Consider that if the reason drugs are hurting "innocent" people (those who don't use) is because of the black market activity (IE gangs) that supplies users, isn't the government being irresponsible by perpetuating the prohibition that allows the black market to prosper?

 

[39094]

Sorry to not have responded in a while, I've been at a revisit weekend. Just like to go through this GREAT post of yours piece by piece.

Report to the dean? If it bothers you what others do, don't worry about it.
Seriously, consider employment with the DEA. You seem very concerned with your "ethical and moral obligations" of the insignificant "abuse" of an attention-deficit treating drug. FANTASTIC.

It's all so "insignificant" to you, you can't even admit the potential for abuse. Amphetamines are amphetamines, and they're being taken illegaly, how is this not abuse?

You are a nark.

I believe it's spelled "narc." No, I don't work for law enforcement.

Momma would be proud.

Yes, I imagine she would be.

You were prolly raised in an uptight, stuffy, rich little cottage on an island nobody has ever heard of.

Nope sorry, raised in Phoenix in a family with around $400 a month of income for the first few years of my life.

People do things, deal with it. Tough for you. You can't save the world.


I can sure try to

Seriously apply with the DEA.

You already said this, might want to read what you've typed before typing more.

If you are sitting in medical school worrying about who does what, get a girlfriend or something, you should worry about your damn self.

You have quite a fixation on this don't you? I'm happily engaged, but that's a bit beside the point. I'm not sitting in med school worrying about this, but if a fellow med student comes up and tries to deal me illegal drugs or tells me about how they are abusing illegal drugs then I'm going to take issue with that because it affects me, my insitution and the patients that I am partly responsible for taking care of.

Who cares what you saw in the ER. That's cool. But you can' sit in a medical class and point out which students would be addicted to a drug and which wouldn't.

No, I can't. But if they come up to me and tell me then I probably have a pretty good idea.

You don't know what you are talking about.


A bit general there don't you think?

Some people can use things in MODERATION.

Sure, but nobody's perfect and perfect judge of how much is too much.

And demerol for a stubbed toe? You talk like the world is flooded with a giant pool of self-medicating psychotic drug addicts.

Maybe if you actually spent TIME in a hospital sometime you might realize just how many people are hooked on drugs and how much it has screwed up their lives.

Time management? That is so ridiculous, you talk like ADHD people get no sleep, study in the subway, and cry to the doctor that they cannot get work done.

I wasn't talking about ADHD people, I was talking about those who want to go out and get drunk all week and then stay up all night on Sunday studying for their Monday exams.

Know-it-alls like you speak so sure but never went through it.

Been through it dear, been through it.

Congratulations that you locked yourself up in a steel box with "24 units" to study for and got a 4.0. You're cool.

Thanks! 😀

I spend a ton of time studying.

Good for you.

You don't know me and when you generalize that people on adderall just should take other approaches, you are making ignorant gneralizations.

And guess what: YOU DON'T KNOW ME EITHER. Maybe you should review that first paragraph you just wrote before accusing me of judging you unfairly.

I have great grades and a job and a life and make time for HW but sorry DUDE, 5 hours for a 1 hour assignment doesn't cut it. I still need to get loaded every now and then.

Yeah, I can see how much you enjoy getting loaded. So after going through your post I find very little that actually has anything to do with the conversation about adderall use. Just a bunch of childish name calling.......next time respond with something useful.

 

[39094]

And oh yea



Word makes perfect sense to me,

I always see these oncology patients walking around at clinic bitching about this hurts, that hurts and I don't feel good. And tell them I never felt the need to pop a pill to keep on top of things. I've taken 24 units during more than one semester, bitch! Did I have NO social life those semesters? Sure. But I survived and pulled a 4.0 for both of those semesters. be-atch!

And yea that cured everything......

get over yourself dick, your gonna be a doc soon, try not to be so judgmental.

Cancer patients vs. perfectly healthy students

Good comparison there bro.

This post isn't even worth responding to, I couldn't even understand what it was saying for the first 4 times I read it. If you have something useful to add to this discussion, feel free to post up. Otherwise, go have another beer and stay out of conversations that don't concern you.

 

[kinetic]

Consider that if the reason drugs are hurting "innocent" people (those who don't use) is because of the black market activity (IE gangs) that supplies users, isn't the government being irresponsible by perpetuating the prohibition that allows the black market to prosper?

So first we rationalize that drugs don't cause any harm and give drug-users a pass. Then we say that PEOPLE are not to blame, it's these silly LAWS which for some WACKY reason people are almost compelled to break! Damn the government for trying to stop us from getting high! Those stuffed shirts are just trying to take the fun out of our lives!! Probably because they're old and can't get laid.

It's funny how people like you never want to lay any blame at the feet of the PEOPLE who use drugs - oh, those innocent rapscallions! Who can fault them; they just want to have a good time! Yes, if people's craving for an illegal substance causes crime ...let's just make the substance legal! Yeah! That makes sense! Whenever it becomes problematic to enforce a law, just ditch the law! (Not that we're advocating anarchy, mind you. We need a government around to hand out free clean needles to everyone and to dole out the ol' welfare. Can't stop having THOSE things.)

Hey, it's too bad that your life is so empty that you need to get liquored up or high to enjoy it.

P.S. It's very telling that ol' dave has a Kieth (sic) Richards quote in his posts. Yeah, good ol' Kieth didn't have a drug problem ...it's just those pesky pigs, er, cops who keep beating him down. They should stop persecuting people by enforcing laws and stuff - except when we want them to be around, of course. Yeah! Good thing our drug-addled brains make this much sense!

 

[39094]

Totally dude, what's with all these restrictive laws?

I mean, if I'm not hurting anyone and just having a good time, I don't see why the cops got to be getting all up in my business.....

Say I like kiddie porn, why the hell they got to arrest me for that? I'm just looking at pics in my own home, not hurting anyone else. It's probably addictive or something, but I don't have an "addictive" personality so I just look at them from time to time. Just because I like to look at kiddie porn doesn't mean that I'm going to be a child molester or anything! Sheesh, these preachy people on SDN who think just because I download a few pics of babies getting molested that all of the sudden I'm some horrible child molester! Freakin' idiots.

Anyway, I know a crime was probably committed initially to get the pics in the first place, but I wasn't the one committing the crime, so now that the stuff is here it's no big deal. Besides, most of the time I'm just borrowing a few pics from my friends that they took of their little sister in the shower so I know where it's coming from. It's not like kiddie porn is going to become a major mob-driven crime thing. It's just some people out having a good time.

And besides, it's healthy and good for me because it helps me get out all those sexual frustrations that I have. I can't believe someone would report me for this! This is my own business and has nothing to do with you!

I just used the same logic that people have been using to defend adderall abuse. Anybody have a problem with any of that?

 

[jennie 21]

Getianshi, first of all I'd just like to say that I respect your previous post for its thoughtfulness, and that I don't agree with people using prescription drugs illegally. However, comparing medical students who take adderol without a prescription to users of child porn? WTF? One harms nobody but themselves, the other causes or at least perpetuates grave harm on somebody else, namely the innocent children being abused and exploited. I just don't see the comparison here. There are very good arguments to be made against people and particularly future doctors abusing prescription drugs, but this isn't one of them. Comparing using adderol to child porn is sensationalist and takes away from the validity of your argument, IMHO.

 

[stoic]

Hey, it's too bad that your life is so empty that you need to make an ass out of yourself on an internet message forum to enjoy it.

I think that I detailed my position on adderall use fairly well in my previous post. Basically I have no direct problem with someone using it (or any drug for that matter). It really doesn't affect me. However, it is a dangerous activity to engage in because of the ramifications of getting caught and in my mind is not worth it.

 

[39094]

Getianshi, first of all I'd just like to say that I respect your previous post for its thoughtfulness, and that I don't agree with people using prescription drugs illegally. However, comparing medical students who take adderol without a prescription to users of child porn? WTF? One harms nobody but themselves, the other causes or at least perpetuates grave harm on somebody else, namely the innocent children being abused and exploited. I just don't see the comparison here. There are very good arguments to be made against people and particularly future doctors abusing prescription drugs, but this isn't one of them. Comparing using adderol to child porn is sensationalist and takes away from the validity of your argument, IMHO.

I know it was a tad sensationalist and for that I apologize, but I think it got my point across. People can rationalize anything with the logic that's been flying around these posts, and it really sickens me. I didn't mean to make light of the horrors of child abuse in any way.

At the same time, I stand by my belief that taking any kind of drug without a valid medical condition is dangerous not only to oneself but to others. Not only from the standpoint of, for example, an addict doctor who is so hepped up on drugs he's been supplying for him/herself he/she can't function but also from the standpoint of those who are being stolen from. I know it's easy to not care about the faceless pharmacy that gets their shipment of drugs stolen, but it really is a huge problem. And don't forget about the pill pushers who make money off of these students who "just need a little pick me up" and later go on and use the money to fund other illegal activities. Sure, maybe there's no mafia connections with the adderall trade, but how do these people know what their pushers are up to? For all you know you could be supporting any number of much more horrid criminal pursuits.

It's so easy to turn a blind eye and say, "I'm not hurting anyone but myself" but the problem is you're not looking at the big picture. (And that fact that you apparently enjoy hurting yourself is a bit strange as well). Drug abuse affects society as a whole no matter how much the rationalizers/apologists want to make it sound like it's a personal problem that we shouldn't worry about.

 

[kinetic]

Hey, it's too bad that your life is so empty that you need to make an ass out of yourself on an internet message forum to enjoy it.

What a rebuttal. You couldn't refute any of my points, so it comes down to saying that I "make an ass" out myself. There's usin' what's left of your noggin!

Basically I have no direct problem with someone using it (or any drug for that matter). It really doesn't affect me. However, it is a dangerous activity to engage in because of the ramifications of getting caught and in my mind is not worth it.

Yeah, that's the ONLY danger of using drugs - getting caught. Wow, your reasoning is too much for me. I also like how people using drugs doesn't affect you - it's a great rationalization! I know that will comfort the families of those killed by people on drugs/selling drugs/looking for money to buy drugs. It also helps people who die as a result of ODing (although I think it's great that these dolts self-select themselves out of life). And it sure doesn't impact the rest of us, who have to pay for hospitalizations/impact from lost work time/legal processing of these *****s, etc. Great point! You sure are a smartie! Is that from all the drinking you do?

 

[stoic]

In a perfect world, people wouldn't use drugs. This is not a perfect world.

A med student popping adderall before a big test really doesn't effect me. Everyone I know who uses adderall gets the pills from friends who have a script for it. They are not supporting some massive adderall black makret. There are obviously reasons other than getting caught that drugs can be bad. I've addressed these in previous post. Basically, use--->abuse--->addictions is not always how it works. It's not that simple. Lots of people use lots of drugs - many of them legally - without ending up addicted to them.

You go on and on about the harm caused to society by drug use, but you don't stop to consider that there are many other things that are perfectly accepted in our society that cause much more harm. Corporate greed keeps millions of people living beneath the poverty line, without adaquate access to health care. What about people not paying attention while driving on highways? People driving irresponsablity kill a lot of "innocent bystanders" every year.

You speak of those who are killed because someone is looking for drugs/money to buy drugs? What if drugs were legal? They would be cheaper and available for those who use them. Not only that, but because drugs would be legal, there would be less of a taboo resulting from seeking treatment for addiction. Gangs would no longer be able to fight over street corners, because no one would be there to buy their drugs. I'm the first to admit that legalization is not a perfect policy. BUT you should also be able to admit that prohibition is also not a perfect policy.

People who OD are generally addicts. They have a disease. I find it extremely offensive that you have no more compassion for them.

My remark about drinking a case of beer was sarcasm. Maybe if you lightened up a little you'd have caught that.

Can we please stop with the personal attacks? They have nothing to do with the issue at hand. They also stifle open conversation of issues.

 

[kinetic]

Basically, use--->abuse--->addictions is not always how it works. It's not that simple. Lots of people use lots of drugs - many of them legally - without ending up addicted to them.

So, the only bad thing that comes from using drugs is addiction? I'm not going to repeat my last post - just go and read it.

Corporate greed keeps millions of people living beneath the poverty line, without adaquate access to health care. What about people not paying attention while driving on highways? People driving irresponsablity kill a lot of "innocent bystanders" every year.

Woah, now I know where you're coming from. You're a socialist! Yeah, that corporate greed sure be keepin' us down! If it weren't for corporations, what a sunny place this world would be! No poverty, no famine, no death, no war ...what a dream! We should dismantle corporations and use that money to get really really high!

You speak of those who are killed because someone is looking for drugs/money to buy drugs? What if drugs were legal? They would be cheaper and available for those who use them.

Yeah, that's what we need! Not LESS drugs, BETTER drugs! Purer drugs that are safer for me to use and get high with! It's all about feeling good and getting a good buzz on! I'm OK with drug use AND I get offended when people don't have compassion for addicts! That's the kind of progressive thinker I am!

P.S. I find it hilarious that the people who pretend to be above it all ("let's stop with the personal attacks") are also the people who are right down in the mud ("you need to make an ass of yourself").

 

[oumedst]

What ever happened to just drinking coffee?????

 

[Gleevec]

What ever happened to just drinking coffee?????

Illegal (if taken w/o prescription) Amphetamines are obviously the new coffee.

See: Starsky and Hutch 😉

 

[GoBlue2004]

The half life for nearly all the most dangerous drugs is 72 hours; coke, opiates, pcp, amphetamines
marijuana is 3 days 3 weeks

Half life for the drugs you listed vary to quite a bit more than you think....if you look on a package insert for methylphenidate (Ritalin) you'll find it has a half life of approx..3-4 hours, whereas the half life of opiates, such as heroin is about an hour and morphine is about 4 hours...the more lipophillic drugs usually have a longer residence time and would naturally have longer half lives. For example, marijuana is a highly lipophillic drug and has a half-life of 3-4 days....But, the metabolites can probably be detected for some time after that...