addiction psychiatry fellowship applicaton advice

[childpsych564]

Hello all, thanks in advance for your help and advice here!

I am going to be sending in applications next year for addiction psychiatry fellowships, to start the fellowship in July 2022.

I am wanting to assemble a list of relatively competitive programs vs. less competitive programs (in terms of application process) so that I can hopefully get a more competitive program, but have some "backups" to assure that I can get the training no matter what. I'm quite sure even in a "less competitive" program I will learn what I need to learn, as much of learning I think is a matter of the effort one puts into it, and I also don't think a good teacher necessarily has to be some massively published powerhouse name.

I'm mostly interested in clinical work, not so much research. I'm board certified in child/adolescent, so i'm also interested in child/adolescent addictions, but again if i can't find a program strong in that area, I would go to an alternative, knowing that my child/adolescent background would still allow me to practice with that population. I should mention perhaps that I'm somewhat older than most applicants, but have learned that I really gravitate to the addictions population and want to focus on that moving forward.

Ok thanks again!

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[Sushirolls]

Back in the day I looked for the programs that didn't utilize the VA. I ultimately didn't decide to hit submit, and went and did the practice pathway with Addiction Medicine.
I vaguely recall seeing one or two programs that might have had a C&A month.
I remember viewing Colorado and Mayo as high on my list. Take a look at their websites.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Yale and Harvard are relatively competitive the last I checked. Addictions can be so uncompetitive that there are programs that receive 0 complete applications over a 2 year period. I talked to the PD, and he did 1 interview over that time with someone that completed 1/2 the application because there was no one else to consider.

 

[dl2dp2]

Most of the top programs like having some research background, but I think if you just go down the USNWR ranking it roughly correspond to a level of competitiveness.

Most programs receive <1.5 application per spot--I've seen the apps for one of the top programs, in terms of applicant pool, especially if you are a US medical school grad so your chance to get in at a particular program overall even Harvard/Yale, etc is excellent. Everyone prioritizes their own grads, so your best shot is your own program. Depending on your career goals, however, this may or may not be the most efficient way moving forward. There are ways to just find the right job and get trained on the job, so I think in addition to fellowships, look into appropriate jobs (e.g. medical director at an adolescent substance abuse program). Formal fellowship is more useful in 1. high end private practice; 2. academia; 3. administrative.

 

[childpsych564]

thanks to all who have shared thoughts so far. i think the main reason i'm not going to be very competitive is my age (52) and no publications. but i have experience clinically in combining psychiatry with dbt with all age groups and i really love working with the population.

 

[childpsych564]

Most of the top programs like having some research background, but I think if you just go down the USNWR ranking it roughly correspond to a level of competitiveness.

Most programs receive <1.5 application per spot--I've seen the apps for one of the top programs, in terms of applicant pool, especially if you are a US medical school grad so your chance to get in at a particular program overall even Harvard/Yale, etc is excellent. Everyone prioritizes their own grads, so your best shot is your own program. Depending on your career goals, however, this may or may not be the most efficient way moving forward. There are ways to just find the right job and get trained on the job, so I think in addition to fellowships, look into appropriate jobs (e.g. medical director at an adolescent substance abuse program). Formal fellowship is more useful in 1. high end private practice; 2. academia; 3. administrative.

Hi sluox, thanks for your suggestion, i could not find the usnwr ranking of addiction fellowships, do you recall where you saw that?

 

[dl2dp2]

weird they got rid of it. there used to be a substance abuse and alcoholism ranking.

UCSF ranked second nationally for drug and substance abuse research programs

The UC San Francisco School of Medicine was ranked second for drug and substance abuse research in this year’s U.S. News & World Report survey of best graduate schools. The rankings also make UCSF the top public university for drug and substance abuse research in the nation.

psych.ucsf.edu

If you are 52 already and have experience with with this population, I'd skip the fellowship. What training do you need exactly? How do induct people on bup? How do do outpatient alcohol detox? Just work locum at a substance abuse facility and get training through PCSS etc. More specifically, if you want training for opioids, SAHMSA has a program called ORN: Opioid Response Network. I would just start seeing patients and get free supervision using above resources.

 

[childpsych564]

hi sluox, i think one motivation would be to be involved in teaching more, the fellowship would allow that presumably during the fellowship i'm thinking, and then could lead to clinical (non research) faculty/teaching possibilities for employment? perhaps? but i do appreciate your suggestions of how to follow the alternate route if i can't find a fellowship program...

 

[dl2dp2]

hi sluox, i think one motivation would be to be involved in teaching more, the fellowship would allow that presumably during the fellowship i'm thinking, and then could lead to clinical (non research) faculty/teaching possibilities for employment? perhaps? but i do appreciate your suggestions of how to follow the alternate route if i can't find a fellowship program...

There are ways to do teaching without doing a fellowship. For example, ORN is explicitly designed that community physicians with experience act as consultants to primary care level providers to disseminate MAT. Personally I wouldn't give up a year of salary. I think if you apply broadly some programs will accept you, but you'll find the experience wanting. Most of the fellowships out there you act as cheap labor with not very good teaching. Good programs are not necessarily easy to get into.

 

[childpsych564]

yes i see your point for sure, will consider the other options absolutely

 

[Mass Effect]

Agree with the above. At the programs that are uncompetitive, you likely won't get as much out of it to justify a year's salary. The only place that kind of thing makes sense is at strong programs and those tend to be the ones that are more competitive.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Just out of curiosity what programs are considered “good” or “strong”?

 

[childpsych564]

Hi Taddy Mason, apologies for my late reply. I've heard the following programs are considered "strong:"

Yale
NYU
Colombia
U Penn
U Mass / Harvard


please anyone do let me know if i've missed any "strong" programs, it might help me answer my question...
thanks!

 

[AClassicRisetotheOccasion]

Hi
I am not sure where you got your list from. I don't believe Columbia even has an addiction psychiatry fellowship.
Either way, do not let age let you down. You are 52 years young!

 

[dl2dp2]

Hi
I am not sure where you got your list from. I don't believe Columbia even has an addiction psychiatry fellowship.
Either way, do not let age let you down. You are 52 years young!

Columbia has an addiction psychiatry fellowship but it's a dual T32 research-based fellowship so they only want people with an interest in research.

The Mass/General McLean program also has a 2 year half time and half research option.

Both have websites that pop up quickly on Google.

 

[childpsych564]

yes I've heard that about Columbia (sorry i spelled it like the country before!) that they are very research oriented. i'm more interested in clinical training/work, and thanks for the comment re: age, i agree. there are data that overall skills in medicine start to decline after residency, but more general data about how in all fields those who actively work to continue learning and acquiring new skills do not experience this gradual decline. i'm hoping those data on maintaining skills generalize to me, and that the "intervention" has a large effect size! 🙂

 

[AClassicRisetotheOccasion]

I think i mixed up Cornell and Columbia. Either way..thanks for correcting me.
Who knows maybe Cornell has one too and I am not aware of it. 🙂