Adding MBA

[nyr77]

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Do you think there is a benefit to obtaining an MBA? My residency would cover the cost, and I wanted to know if it would have any benefit, as far as group partnership, starting own group, or just increase personal value during job search?

 

[suckstobeme]

Not really.

The leadership people in most of the groups I've seen are not people with special management experience or qualifications. They have just been in the department for awhile and they know how to get things done around the hospital. When they do work in the administrative posts they usually are not getting paid a lot more (but they do get a little bump in salary)- they just trade admin time for clinical time.

I don't know if it might help you if you want to be a management person in the big mega-groups. But why would you want to be there anyway?

I think you'd be better off being the best resident and best ED Doc you could possibly be and focus your efforts there.

I guess theoretically it would help you have some business background if you wanted to start your own group, but as far as I am aware, MBA classes are not so much about "How to start and run your business" as much as it is about "How big business work and how to meet the people that work in them".

Also, I think starting your own group is not that intellectually difficult where you would need special classes. You just have to have the will to go to some small to mid-size town without a lot of big groups there already, network with a bunch of people, and have the guts to venture off and do your own thing.

 

[dotcb]

I agree. Probably not worth it. Most is learned on the job. Administrative roles are available if you want them, and just work your way up.

 

[nyr77]

I see, thanks for the advice. Talking with a senior attending today he was saying the more you can do after/outside of residency the more valuable you become. Ie having a fellowship or mph vs a guy with none makes you a more attractive candidate

 

[Doctor Bob]

I see, thanks for the advice. Talking with a senior attending today he was saying the more you can do after/outside of residency the more valuable you become. Ie having a fellowship or mph vs a guy with none makes you a more attractive candidate

Well yes; all things being equal.
The part that held me back from saying that getting an MBA is useful is that your residency will pay for it, which for me means you'd be doing it while going to residency.

Having an MPH/MBA/whatever else is good, but you have to learn the practice of EM first. That's first and foremost what you're there for. To do an MBA right, there's a significant time investment and residency isn't the best time for that.

It's nice that the program would pay for it though.

Getting an MBA after residency? Can't hurt.

 

[Birdstrike]

Do you think there is a benefit to obtaining an MBA? My residency would cover the cost, and I wanted to know if it would have any benefit, as far as group partnership, starting own group, or just increase personal value during job search?

It's not a black or white answer, or a question of benefit. Of course there's benefit if you've got a unique skill or degree, such as an MD/MBA. There's big potential there. It's a question of "opportunity cost." Is the pay off of the opportunity worth the cost to you, in time, effort and money?

If you intend on being a pit doc until retirement? Probably not.

If you want to go into admin or run your small democratic group? Maybe. Maybe.

If you eventually want to leave clinical Medicine, run a hospital or hospital system, or climb the corporate ladder outside of clinical medicine (maybe with a clinical flavor, ie, drug company, large for-profit hospital corporation, EM mega-group, Wall Street consultant regarding drug company approvals, etc)? Likely very helpful. In this case, one has to ask, is it worth getting getting the MD in the first place?

 

[deuist]

Studying for an MBA during residency would take so much time away from your primary focus that I think it could hinder you more than anything else.

 

[Groove]

The MBA would never be a waste and could potentially come in handy in a myriad of ways but not unless you intend to utilize it within a business framework during some point in your career. That's basically already been said... Still, I'd be tempted if your res pays for it and you had the time. You'd have to be very diligent and focused but don't let it detract from your training. My grad deg is business/MIS and I plan on taking a few more classes to satisfy the MBA but that's because I'd like to do some CMIO type role in some capacity if possible. It might ultimately turn out to be a waste of time but I'm only a few classes shy...

I find it weird that your residency is willing to pay for an MBA and actually would encourage you to invest in an obvious distraction from training... More power to ya.

 

[sylvanthus]

OP- You may want to double check that your residency is really willing to pay for the MBA. I too thought that an MBA was covered at my residency/hospital, but it was only for "employees" and apparently being a resident doesn't count. I was pretty annoyed when I learned that.

 

[Birdstrike]

OP- You may want to double check that your residency is really willing to pay for the MBA. I too thought that an MBA was covered at my residency/hospital, but it was only for "employees" and apparently being a resident doesn't count. I was pretty annoyed when I learned that.

Right. A lot of times they will have residents technically in the category of "unpaid employee," and your paycheck isn't really a "paycheck," but instead an educational "stipend." Not a big deal, right?

Think again. This can allow them to manipulate who gets what benefits. Where I trained, we were under this status and not eligible for a few of the "employee" benefits such as this, because we weren't "paid employees." We were "unpaid" employees and basically volunteers/students with an educational "stipend," according to the hospital.

This status allowed us to be ineligible for many of those employee perks, because we weren't paid employees. Yet somehow being unpaid "students" with an educational "stipend" didn't get us out of having to pay taxes on our paycheck which we were told wasn't "pay," but was an educational stipend.

Hmmm....

It's manipulation of terminology and employee status to make sure the hospital/institution gets the best of both worlds, financially. For them.

 

[deleted547339]

Right. A lot of times they will have residents technically in the category of "unpaid employee," and your paycheck isn't really a "paycheck," but instead an educational "stipend." Not a big deal, right?

Think again. This can allow them to manipulate who gets what benefits. Where I trained, we were under this status and not eligible for a few of the "employee" benefits such as this, because we weren't "paid employees." We were "unpaid" employees and basically volunteers/students with an educational "stipend," according to the hospital.

This status allowed us to be ineligible for many of those employee perks, because we weren't paid employees. Yet somehow being unpaid "students" with an educational "stipend" didn't get us out of having to pay taxes on our paycheck which we were told wasn't "pay," but was an educational stipend.

Hmmm....

It's manipulation of terminology and employee status to make sure the hospital/institution gets the best of both worlds, financially. For them.

Yep - apparently my institution has it's own category for residents. Somehow we're not considered "full-time employees" - which seems laughable since residents work more hours than anyone else - more like "double full-time employees." I was hoping to get my wife a discount on tuition for a masters and was unable to do so. It's unfortunate. My PD mistakenly told me that there was a tuition discount for employees' spouses. He wasn't trying to mislead me, even put me in contact with people who used the tuition remission, unfortunately it's only been attendings and fellows (who are not on the resident/fellow spectrum at my institution - they are technically attendings or maybe instructors) who have done this in the past and he was unaware that those benefits do not extend to residents.

At the end of the day, I have a good job with decent pay where I'm learning to be a strong EM doc at a great institution. These are good problems to have.