Adding Regenerative medicine to your practice.

IPSIS: Formerly the Spine Intervention Society
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
drusso said:
Manual tissue processing is the difference between having a Starbucks Barista and Nespresso machine...
Click to expand...
Doctodd said:
If kits still cost about $200 I’m not interested. I’ve been “kit-less” for almost 10 years.
Click to expand...
Can you and doctodd please provide some information on where we can buy the equipment and learn to do PRP processing ourselves?
Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
bedrock said:
Can you and doctodd please provide some information on where we can buy the equipment and learn to do PRP processing ourselves?
Click to expand...
I don’t think he can, but I messaged you
 
Agast said:
Ordered, thanks for the rec. $250 on Amazon since I hate screen learning.
Click to expand...
the pdf was kind of free.... or you could make a donation if you were so inclined
 
Ferrismonk said:
On that note, does anyone have a good diagnostic ultrasound course/book/certification they can recommend?
Click to expand...
lots of new videos uploaded from IOF/AAOM.....coincidentally, US guided knee injxns in this video from Dr Shiple, a well known Regen doc.

 
lobelsteve said:
Improvement from stem cells? Ask the doctor. I think Russo just bought a bigger boat. Now that’s an improvement.
Click to expand...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intra-articular Injections of Mesenchymal Stem Cells Without Adjuvant Therapies for Knee Osteoarthritis: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis - PubMed

Intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies improves pain and function for osteoarthritis. Significantly better outcomes were obtained with the use of bone marrow MSCs as compared with adipose MSCs and with the use of cultured MSCs as opposed to uncultured MSCs.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Am J Sports Med
2021 Jan 20;363546520981704.
doi: 10.1177/0363546520981704. Online ahead of print.

Intra-articular Injections of Mesenchymal Stem Cells Without Adjuvant Therapies for Knee Osteoarthritis: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

Si Heng Sharon Tan 1, Yiu Tsun Kwan 1, Wei Jian Neo 1, Jia Yan Chong 1, Tze Yin Joshua Kuek 1, Jun Ze Fabian See 1, Keng Lin Wong 1 2, Wei Seong Toh 3 4, James Hoi Po Hui 1 3
Affiliations expand

Abstract​

Background: While many reviews have been performed to attempt to provide conclusive evidence regarding the outcomes of mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) in osteoarthritis treatment, the evidence for MSC treatment in osteoarthritis remains contentious, as these reviews have been limited by the heterogeneous evidence available.

Purpose: To pool the results of treatment using intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies for osteoarthritis.

Study design: Systematic review and meta-analysis.

Methods: The review was conducted in accordance with the PRISMA (Preferred Reporting Items for Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analyses) guidelines. All clinical trials of level 1 or 2 evidence that reported clinical outcomes of patients with osteoarthritis of the knees treated using intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies were included.

Results: A total of 19 studies with 440 knees were included. All studies reported an improvement in the outcomes after intervention. The standardized mean differences (SMDs) for the visual analog scale (VAS) for pain at rest and upon exertion were -1.48 (95% CI, -1.85 to -1.11) and -2.25 (95% CI, -2.64 to -1.85), respectively. The SMDs for the total Western Ontario and McMaster Universities Osteoarthritis Index (WOMAC) and total Knee injury and Osteoarthritis Outcome Score were -1.19 (95% CI, -1.53 to -0.84) and 0.88 (95% CI, 0.66-1.10), respectively. Only the source of MSCs and whether the MSCs were cultured or uncultured were clinically important and statistically significant moderators of the treatment outcome. The use of bone marrow MSCs reduced the VAS for pain by 1.50 (95% CI, 0.04-2.96; P = .04) and reduced the total WOMAC by 23.2 (95% CI, 10.0-36.4; P < .01) as compared with adipose MSCs. The use of cultured MSCs reduced the VAS for pain by 2.19 (95% CI, 0.57-3.81; P < .01) and reduced the total WOMAC by 14.4 (95% CI, 1.21-27.5; P = .03) as compared with uncultured MSCs.

Conclusion: Intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies improves pain and function for osteoarthritis. Significantly better outcomes were obtained with the use of bone marrow MSCs as compared with adipose MSCs and with the use of cultured MSCs as opposed to uncultured MSCs.

Keywords: intra-articular injections; mesenchymal stem cells; meta-analysis; osteoarthritis; systematic review.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
drusso said:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intra-articular Injections of Mesenchymal Stem Cells Without Adjuvant Therapies for Knee Osteoarthritis: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis - PubMed

Intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies improves pain and function for osteoarthritis. Significantly better outcomes were obtained with the use of bone marrow MSCs as compared with adipose MSCs and with the use of cultured MSCs as opposed to uncultured MSCs.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Am J Sports Med
2021 Jan 20;363546520981704.
doi: 10.1177/0363546520981704. Online ahead of print.

Intra-articular Injections of Mesenchymal Stem Cells Without Adjuvant Therapies for Knee Osteoarthritis: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis

Si Heng Sharon Tan 1, Yiu Tsun Kwan 1, Wei Jian Neo 1, Jia Yan Chong 1, Tze Yin Joshua Kuek 1, Jun Ze Fabian See 1, Keng Lin Wong 1 2, Wei Seong Toh 3 4, James Hoi Po Hui 1 3
Affiliations expand

Abstract​

Background: While many reviews have been performed to attempt to provide conclusive evidence regarding the outcomes of mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) in osteoarthritis treatment, the evidence for MSC treatment in osteoarthritis remains contentious, as these reviews have been limited by the heterogeneous evidence available.

Purpose: To pool the results of treatment using intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies for osteoarthritis.

Study design: Systematic review and meta-analysis.

Methods: The review was conducted in accordance with the PRISMA (Preferred Reporting Items for Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analyses) guidelines. All clinical trials of level 1 or 2 evidence that reported clinical outcomes of patients with osteoarthritis of the knees treated using intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies were included.

Results: A total of 19 studies with 440 knees were included. All studies reported an improvement in the outcomes after intervention. The standardized mean differences (SMDs) for the visual analog scale (VAS) for pain at rest and upon exertion were -1.48 (95% CI, -1.85 to -1.11) and -2.25 (95% CI, -2.64 to -1.85), respectively. The SMDs for the total Western Ontario and McMaster Universities Osteoarthritis Index (WOMAC) and total Knee injury and Osteoarthritis Outcome Score were -1.19 (95% CI, -1.53 to -0.84) and 0.88 (95% CI, 0.66-1.10), respectively. Only the source of MSCs and whether the MSCs were cultured or uncultured were clinically important and statistically significant moderators of the treatment outcome. The use of bone marrow MSCs reduced the VAS for pain by 1.50 (95% CI, 0.04-2.96; P = .04) and reduced the total WOMAC by 23.2 (95% CI, 10.0-36.4; P < .01) as compared with adipose MSCs. The use of cultured MSCs reduced the VAS for pain by 2.19 (95% CI, 0.57-3.81; P < .01) and reduced the total WOMAC by 14.4 (95% CI, 1.21-27.5; P = .03) as compared with uncultured MSCs.

Conclusion: Intra-articular injections of MSCs without any adjuvant therapies improves pain and function for osteoarthritis. Significantly better outcomes were obtained with the use of bone marrow MSCs as compared with adipose MSCs and with the use of cultured MSCs as opposed to uncultured MSCs.

Keywords: intra-articular injections; mesenchymal stem cells; meta-analysis; osteoarthritis; systematic review.
Click to expand...
But a 2 point decrease in VAS? I just don’t see this being worth the cost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
It's strange to me people decry the cost of PRP and Stem Cell procedures (Caveat: Real treatment with real physicians) but they have no trouble doing a routine RFA in the hospital for $5K or stim for $50K
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 5 users
for me, it is related to whether treatment is affordable to the patient and the data and evidence for support for such treatments.

the articles that have been posted suggest that PRP is helpful for musculoskeletal conditions, but more debatable for stem cell treatments. the evidence for RFA is stronger.
 
Ferrismonk said:
It's strange to me people decry the cost of PRP and Stem Cell procedures (Caveat: Real treatment with real physicians) but they have no trouble doing a routine RFA in the hospital for $5K or stim for $50K
Click to expand...
RF works
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
drusso said:
Works for your Boss who's churning the $O$...
Click to expand...
1612303784071.jpeg

I inserted abba as I believe it is an sdn requirement when one mentions 🆘
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 users
Ducttape said:
for me, it is related to whether treatment is affordable to the patient and the data and evidence for support for such treatments.

the articles that have been posted suggest that PRP is helpful for musculoskeletal conditions, but more debatable for stem cell treatments. the evidence for RFA is stronger.
Click to expand...
So if PRP cost $10K, but insurance picked up $9900 of that, you'd be fine with it?
 
Ferrismonk said:
So if PRP cost $10K, but insurance picked up $9900 of that, you'd be fine with it?
Click to expand...
I'm at the point of thinking that PRP does have role in certain disease processes....

however, with regards to your concern:
1. PRP doesn't cost $10K. if it did, given the current state of data, I would not think it worth it.
2. if insurance picked up $9900, then this is an issue with insurance paying oodles of money for way overpriced procedure. it might make it more affordable for some of my patients, and I might consider offering it, if I knew it was going to be $10k effective. because patient care is my focus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Ducttape said:
for me, it is related to whether treatment is affordable to the patient and the data and evidence for support for such treatments.

the articles that have been posted suggest that PRP is helpful for musculoskeletal conditions, but more debatable for stem cell treatments. the evidence for RFA is stronger.
Click to expand...
if Medtronic was profiting from Regen med, there would be a ton of studies showing efficacy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
oreosandsake said:
RF, corticosteroids, lysis, ectomy ----> catabolic. cut, burn, destroy, weaken

PRP ------> anabolic.

"lack of research" PRP on pubmed - 13k hits. platelet rich plasma - Search Results - PubMed


epidural steroid injection 2366 hits.
Click to expand...
PRP - anabolic, natural, from your own body, growth factors, cytokines, antimicrobial, level evidence for tendons, cartilage pathology, wound care, dental work, etc etc
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
lobelsteve said:
www.eckertchiropracticcenter.com

Platelet Rich Plasma Therapy - Eckert Chiropractic Center

Platelet Rich Plasma Therapy in Oak Ridge TN. Call Eckert Chiropractic Center today to make an appointment.
www.eckertchiropracticcenter.com www.eckertchiropracticcenter.com

Sign me up.
Click to expand...

this stuff is such horse poop.....

folks like this think they've figured it all out. "masters of the universe" when they really have no clue how much is out there. how deep the knowledge rabbit hole runs, how precise the procedures should be performed, how the differential is deeper than a symptom.


I see folks like this at conferences and cadaver workshops all the time. most don't use the basic vernacular correctly. and their mindset is always square peg, for every hole.

after residency, fellowship, 6 years as an attending, and honest to goodness DAILY STUDY, I still feel like I'm just breaking the ice
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
never heard of "south college" nor"tennessee technological university"

she may be a great NP, but my bet is that she really doesnt know what she doesnt know
 
oreosandsake said:
this stuff is such horse poop.....

folks like this think they've figured it all out. "masters of the universe" when they really have no clue how much is out there. how deep the knowledge rabbit hole runs, how precise the procedures should be performed, how the differential is deeper than a symptom.


I see folks like this at conferences and cadaver workshops all the time. most don't use the basic vernacular correctly. and their mindset is always square peg, for every hole.

after residency, fellowship, 6 years as an attending, and honest to goodness DAILY STUDY, I still feel like I'm just breaking the ice
Click to expand...
The time is coming when you will be deplatformed, depersoned and canceled for being midlevelphobic. Hospitals will be the first to implement this as a way to expunge expensive physicians and replace them with complacent midlevels.
 
Ligament said:
The time is coming when you will be deplatformed, depersoned and canceled for being midlevelphobic. Hospitals will be the first to implement this as a way to expunge expensive physicians and replace them with complacent midlevels.
Click to expand...
This time, your exaggerated doomsday scenario may be accurate
 
Ligament said:
The time is coming when you will be deplatformed, depersoned and canceled for being midlevelphobic. Hospitals will be the first to implement this as a way to expunge expensive physicians and replace them with complacent midlevels.
Click to expand...

This is already happening.

“To Keep You Is No Benefit. To Destroy You Is No Loss”
 
Ligament said:
The time is coming when you will be deplatformed, depersoned and canceled for being midlevelphobic. Hospitals will be the first to implement this as a way to expunge expensive physicians and replace them with complacent midlevels.
Click to expand...


sign up all the folks who hire them for midlevels as PCPs.

it's "perfectly good" but for peasants. "not for me" - CEO of insurance company

at some point people will demand experience and training. phobia is prob not the right word. I think it's idiotic. and they will have their own residencies soon... and the CNA will want the RN's job...
 
drusso said:
Stem cells...in the eyeball...

blogs.ohsu.edu

OHSU Casey Eye Institute grows gene and cell therapy research by performing its first stem cell therapy in the retina

The OHSU Casey Eye Institute has used a stem cell therapy in the retina for the first time as part of a Phase 2a clinical trial evaluating the safety and efficacy of an experimental treatment for an inherited blindness-causing disorder. By Franny White
blogs.ohsu.edu blogs.ohsu.edu
Click to expand...
Similar to the ones that blinded patients in Florida???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

drusso
Godfather of Regenerative Medicine Passes..
Replies
2
Views
689
Doctodd
D
bedrock
regenerative medicine key papers
Replies
42
Views
2K
Doctodd
D
oreosandsake
Advanced Regenerative Medicine Institute
Replies
6
Views
1K
oreosandsake
oreosandsake
drusso
Regenerative Medicine Fellowship Opportunities
Replies
21
Views
5K
oreosandsake
oreosandsake
C
fully workers comp/PI practice
Replies
9
Views
645
Doctodd
D
Top