Admissions Advice

[Giovanotto]

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I'm really struggling with this decision so I was hoping somebody from admissions could give me some solid advice and clear this up for me. I've noticed a lot of DO schools are strongly recommending physiology, anatomy, and microbiology.

Me: B.S. in Chemistry and I've taken endocrinology, and bio (series), but never the aforementioned desired courses.

Problem: This spring semester I need to take 12 units at my local community college while at the same time prepping for the MCAT and applying to DO school in June (I've already started the application, LoR process and studying for the MCAT -- I have NO other choice, hence why I created this thread and do not need a response that says that I shouldn't do this -- I have no other choice, I'm in a huge pickle).

What is better:
- Try my best to get into anatomy and microbiology at local community college by "crashing" classes and then aiming for As while giving up time for the MCAT
OR
- Take 12 units of easier stuff, like Italian, Stats, Philosophy, PE and give myself more time to study for the MCAT

What would admissions prefer? Honestly I don't know if I can pull off wasting time trying to get into these anatomy and microbiology classes, getting in (maybe), studying hard for them and also preparing for the MCAT. I've already started preparing for the MCAT (I've been studying since late December), but I've now switched gears and am trying for the 2015 one (gave up my Jan 2015 seat for the "Old" test).

To be clear: I want to apply to DO school THIS year, the 2015 application cycle.

 

[AlteredScale]

I'm really struggling with this decision so I was hoping somebody from admissions could give me some solid advice and clear this up for me. I've noticed a lot of DO schools are strongly recommending physiology, anatomy, and microbiology. This frustrates me and it's kind of bull, but this isn't why I created this thread.

Me: B.S. in Chemistry and I've taken endocrinology, and bio (series), but never the aforementioned desired courses.

Problem: This spring semester I need to take 12 units at my local community college while at the same time prepping for the MCAT and applying to DO school in June (I've already started the application and studying for the MCAT).

What is better:
- Try my best to get into anatomy and microbiology at local community college by "crashing" classes and then aiming for As while giving up time for the MCAT
OR
- Take 12 units of easier stuff, like Italian, Stats, Philosophy, PE and give myself more time to study for the MCAT

What would admissions prefer? Honestly I don't know if I can pull off wasting time trying to get into these anatomy and microbiology classes, getting in (maybe), studying hard for them and also preparing for the MCAT. I've already started preparing for the MCAT (I've been studying since late December), but I've now switched gears and am trying for the 2015 one (gave up my Jan 2015 seat for the "Old" test).

Honestly if you already done well in your chem degree and all the prereqs that you need for medical school then I would just focus on the MCAT and not even take classes if you don't need to. If you need to then take the lightest and easiest course load while prepping for the MCAT.

Don't sacrifice MCAT prep time for courses. The MCAT is a bigger deal then taking extra courses.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

A great MCAT score would be better than taking physiology, anatomy, microbiology.

 

[Giovanotto]

Wow, you guys are quick -- thank you! What you have said is pretty much what I was thinking, but I wanted some reassurance.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Wow, you guys are quick -- thank you! What about of you have said is pretty much what I was thinking, but I wanted some reassurance.

Of course prior knowledge in physio, anatomy, and micro is helpful during med school... but I agree with those above that a stronger MCAT is more important for admissions!

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Of course prior knowledge in physio, anatomy, and micro is helpful during med school... but I agree with those above that a stronger MCAT is more important for admissions!

He can always take those classes once he's applying.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Community college "micro/physio/anatomy" are only going to help your debt grow.

Dont take those courses ever. Wait til med school and learn those subjects correctly.

You would be wasting valuable study time and money

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Community college "micro/physio/anatomy" are only going to help your debt grow.

Dont take those courses ever. Wait til med school and learn those subjects correctly.

You would be wasting valuable study time and money

This is what I have heard too. I have several friends at University of Maryland med who say that their anatomy courses they took in undergrad actually HURT them in med school because 1) Things were taught "wrong" in undergrad (as in such a way as to help one grasp it easier but not necessarily correct) and 2) The level of detail is so small in comparison to med school that it was sort of maddening to know that your UG courses were such a waste of time and now you have to know so much more.

 

[hallowmann]

This is what I have heard too. I have several friends at University of Maryland med who say that their anatomy courses they took in undergrad actually HURT them in med school because 1) Things were taught "wrong" in undergrad (as in such a way as to help one grasp it easier but not necessarily correct) and 2) The level of detail is so small in comparison to med school that it was sort of maddening to know that your UG courses were such a waste of time and now you have to know so much more.

I honestly can't comment on CC courses or UG anatomy, but my courses in Physio, Genetics, and Immuno from undergrad and my DIY post-bac all significantly helped me with those courses in med school.

Obviously my physio course only covered certain things superficially, but it was much easier to add some depth to it than starting from scratch. Genetics essentially taught me the vocabulary and basic genetics stuff, so all I really needed to do in med school was memorize the specific conditions. Immunology I think was the biggest help. My UG immuno course essentially taught me everything to the same depth as my med school course in it taught me, so really it just became an issue of reviewing it. I was significantly ahead of the game when it came to Immuno compared to classmates who still don't get it.

Obviously YMMV, especially since not all UG courses were created equal, but I was honestly surprised how valuable my courses were.

OP, I came out of my physio course in my DIY post-bac wishing I had taken it before I took my MCAT because it essentially filled all the bio gaps in my knowledge. If you take any course before the MCAT, I'd recommend that one, but none of them are necessary/required, anatomy and Micro won't help with the MCAT, and the most important thing as people have said is that you do well on it. Schools may recommend these courses, but they aren't requirements, whereas the MCAT is. Take it, do well on it, and if you really want to take those courses you can do so during the year when you have nothing but interviews to deal with.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I also want to piggyback off of hallowmann's post for a second.

If there is one subject that you need to master in medical school its physio. Everyone will tell you that anatomy or biochem or micro blah blah blah are the "hardest"

They are difficult courses, yea, but the easiest way to master step 1/medicine in general is to really get a foundation of physiology.

*if* you take one class to "prepare" for med school, it should be physiology.

Its one of the very few courses that you will take from here on out that you cant just memorize.

 

[hallowmann]

I also want to piggyback off of hallowmann's post for a second.

If there is one subject that you need to master in medical school its physio. Everyone will tell you that anatomy or biochem or micro blah blah blah are the "hardest"

They are difficult courses, yea, but the easiest way to master step 1/medicine in general is to really get a foundation of physiology.

*if* you take one class to "prepare" for med school, it should be physiology.

Its one of the very few courses that you will take from here on out that you cant just memorize.

I completely agree with this sentiment. None of the courses are required, and you'll make it through med school having only taken the pre-reqs, but physiology is one of those courses that's the base of everything you learn, even when you're learning path in 2nd year. Knowing it will make the process easier.

My point in the previous post was to say that I was pleasantly surprised that my undergrad courses helped so much in med school, not to say that they are necessary. They aren't. People in my school that had taken no other sciences, but the pre-reqs are doing just fine. They may have had to study a bit more than me in certain subjects, but its not like I took those previous courses for free and I still spent time on them.

 

[AlteredScale]

So if we have taken physiology then we should be sort of somewhat ready?

 

[hallowmann]

So if we have taken physiology then we should be sort of somewhat ready?

Nope. No one is ready for med school 🙂... but it should be a bit easier when you're covering all of physiology in like a semester and a half.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I completely agree with this sentiment. None of the courses are required, and you'll make it through med school having only taken the pre-reqs, but physiology is one of those courses that's the base of everything you learn, even when you're learning path in 2nd year. Knowing it will make the process easier.

My point in the previous post was to say that I was pleasantly surprised that my undergrad courses helped so much in med school, not to say that they are necessary. They aren't. People in my school that had taken no other sciences, but the pre-reqs are doing just fine. They may have had to study a bit more than me in certain subjects, but its not like I took those previous courses for free and I still spent time on them.

Welp you have convinced me to pick up a physio book before school starts haha. I have never taken human anatomy or physio.

 

[jaguar33]

Consider taking some science classes if you need them to graduate. My physiology, genetics and cell bio courses were invaluable when learning all the new concepts at mega speed in med school. They were required for my major though, I don't know if I would go back and take them after already graduating. After the semester you could spend 1-2 months doing hardcore dedicated MCAT studying (practice sets/full lengths) and blow it out of the water. You would only end up submitting your application a month or 2 later, but you would be in a way better position for admissions (considering a high score) and school.

As a side note, I never took anatomy, microbiology, biochemistry, immunology or a bunch of other classes I see being tossed around here. With a solid foundation in the pre-reqs and a lot of work you will do fine in med school classes. Physiology will help you see the big picture while learning everything though.

 

[Seth Joo]

I meet a lot of undegraduates who have a very distorted view of a doctor's life they think doctors wind up owning these:

 

[Seth Joo]

Sorry to break the bad news but with sky high debts from student loans, and falling reimbursements its more like this:

I think most of us would be lucky to afford the windshield wiper blade on a Lamborghini, which is around 5000 dollars. That is not a typo.

 

[doapplicant2015]

Random stuff

What does this have to do with this thread?

 

[Seth Joo]

What does this have to do with this thread?

A lot of premeds that I know have the wrong idea about the medical field, especially with regards to a doctor's earning ability and their lifestyle. Its actually a very modest lifestyle. I knew that before I started medical school, my ex-wife knew that, in fact, I had a job that paid more than a typical primary care doctor salary.

Medicine is not the only field where the earning ability has been in decline, the legal field is in huge trouble as well. My ex is an attorney, many law schools, their graduates cannot find jobs, even people from the top law schools cannot get jobs in their field.

It used to be thing to tell your friends that your son or daughter is a doctor or lawyer but no one really cares these days. People do get impressed if your kid starts a internet company though.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

A lot of premeds that I know have the wrong idea about the medical field, especially with regards to a doctor's earning ability and their lifestyle. Its actually a very modest lifestyle. I knew that before I started medical school, my ex-wife knew that, in fact, I had a job that paid more than a typical primary care doctor salary.

Medicine is not the only field where the earning ability has been in decline, the legal field is in huge trouble as well. My ex is an attorney, many law schools, their graduates cannot find jobs, even people from the top law schools cannot get jobs in their field.

It used to be thing to tell your friends that your son or daughter is a doctor or lawyer but no one really cares these days. People do get impressed if your kid starts a internet company though.

While still somewhat true... the point is that your post has nothing to do with whether or not to take 'recommended' classes at a CC.

 

[Seth Joo]

While still somewhat true... the point is that your post has nothing to do with whether or not to take 'recommended' classes at a CC.

You can take courses anywhere you want, as long as the school is accredited. Community college courses are not necessarily easier than those at four year schools.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Wtf?

 

[Goro]

Why do you think that taking coursework that can help prepare you for medical school is bull? Be that as it may, keep in mind that these are recommendations and not requirements.
I've noticed a lot of DO schools are strongly recommending physiology, anatomy, and microbiology. This frustrates me and it's kind of bull,
Me: B.S. in Chemistry and I've taken endocrinology, and bio (series), but never the aforementioned desired courses.

This
- Take 12 units of easier stuff, like Italian, Stats, Philosophy, PE and give myself more time to study for the MCAT

We prefer evidence that you can handle a rigorous course load. Just take the MCAT later in the year...it's a longer cycle for DO, and even if you get your app in by Oct/Nov., that's still plenty of time.

What would admissions prefer? Honestly I don't know if I can pull off wasting time trying to get into these anatomy and microbiology classes, getting in (maybe), studying hard for them and also preparing for the MCAT. I've already started preparing for the MCAT (I've been studying since late December), but I've now switched gears and am trying for the 2015 one (gave up my Jan 2015 seat for the "Old" test).

 

[ChrisGriffen]

@Goro because preparing yourself for medical school is useless if you dont ever get into medical school. Yes it looks better to have taken real courses, but. That only matters if admissions are actually looking at your app. We all know that most admissions offices will throw a 3.0/22 directly into the trash, regardless of what classes were taken.

We also know that a 3.8/31 will get an interview, regardless of what classes were taken.

 

[Seth Joo]

@Goro because preparing yourself for medical school is useless if you dont ever get into medical school. Yes it looks better to have taken real courses, but. That only matters if admissions are actually looking at your app. We all know that most admissions offices will throw a 3.0/22 directly into the trash, regardless of what classes were taken.

We also know that a 3.8/31 will get an interview, regardless of what classes were taken.

Not true, my GPA and MCAT was around that range, I also went to one of the top 3 Ivy League schools and only got a couple of interviews at MD schools, I got lot of invites from DO schools.

I can tell you that C- in Organic Chemistry from Yale will keep you out of medical school but an A in the same subject at a community college will not. Also I have taken some course work at a local junior college and did not find a difference in difficulty. I am a non traditional medical student and took some of my pre-requisite courses after I completed my undergraduate studies.

Also they do look at how well you challenged yourself during your studies, if you took a lot of easy courses they will figure it out. Admissions people are smart, they can smell trouble a mile away.

 

[user3]

A lot of premeds that I know have the wrong idea about the medical field, especially with regards to a doctor's earning ability and their lifestyle. Its actually a very modest lifestyle. I knew that before I started medical school, my ex-wife knew that, in fact, I had a job that paid more than a typical primary care doctor salary.

Medicine is not the only field where the earning ability has been in decline, the legal field is in huge trouble as well. My ex is an attorney, many law schools, their graduates cannot find jobs, even people from the top law schools cannot get jobs in their field.

It used to be thing to tell your friends that your son or daughter is a doctor or lawyer but no one really cares these days. People do get impressed if your kid starts a internet company though.

given that most physicians do not recommend medicine to premeds, what other career choices do you think are most solid?

 

[Seth Joo]

given that most physicians do not recommend medicine to premeds, what other career choices do you think are most solid?

Medicine is a great field, the chances that you will own a palatial home and have Rolls and Lamborghini though are slim, but many young people have this impression that doctors have a license to print money. I guess that is one advantage I had over my peers who entered medical school straight from college, I worked at a real job, and learned how hard it is to earn money and how the real world works, the world is a very tough place. So I am not just some older guy with a bunch of early 20 somethings.

There is nothing wrong with a Toyota, LOL, its a lot more reliable than a Lamborghini!!! Still one can always dream.

If a school is "strongly" recommending something, it might be a good idea to take it.

 

[Giovanotto]

We prefer evidence that you can handle a rigorous course load. Just take the MCAT later in the year...it's a longer cycle for DO, and even if you get your app in by Oct/Nov., that's still plenty of time.

What would admissions prefer? Honestly I don't know if I can pull off wasting time trying to get into these anatomy and microbiology classes, getting in (maybe), studying hard for them and also preparing for the MCAT. I've already started preparing for the MCAT (I've been studying since late December), but I've now switched gears and am trying for the 2015 one (gave up my Jan 2015 seat for the "Old" test).

Oh? I thought that similarly to MD schools (which I am applying to as well) once applications open in June you want to submit your application asap. I am currently: gathering LoRs, working on my application (since apparently it transfers from year to year) and studying for the MCAT.

Are you suggesting I keep working on my application and shadowing/gather LoR while taking a more rigorous semester that hopefully will include anatomy and micro (can't take physio until I've taken anatomy at my CC) and THEN once I'm done with the semester in June study my ass off for the MCAT, take it in August/September and THEN apply?

Man I'm conflicted again....

 

[Goro]

For DO schools? Yes. MD schools? No.
Are you suggesting I keep working on my application and shadowing/gather LoR while taking a more rigorous semester that hopefully will include anatomy and micro (can't take physio until I've taken anatomy at my CC) and THEN once I'm done with the semester in June study my ass off for the MCAT, take it in August/September and THEN apply?

 

[hallowmann]

Oh? I thought that similarly to MD schools (which I am applying to as well) once applications open in June you want to submit your application asap. I am currently: gathering LoRs, working on my application (since apparently it transfers from year to year) and studying for the MCAT.

Are you suggesting I keep working on my application and shadowing/gather LoR while taking a more rigorous semester that hopefully will include anatomy and micro (can't take physio until I've taken anatomy at my CC) and THEN once I'm done with the semester in June study my ass off for the MCAT, take it in August/September and THEN apply?

Man I'm conflicted again....

Don't take the MCAT that late. September is the busiest time to submit an app. Getting it verified would take 5-6 weeks (delaying another month and a half before schools see it), then you wouldn't get complete until late Nov./early Dec., and you'd be lucky to get interviews for Feb/Mar when most schools are already mostly full. You'd get in (provided your MCAT is solid), but if you want options at the most established schools, you need to apply early.

Just take this semester of light courses, maybe with physiology thrown in (if that's even possible at this point), study now through May/June, and take the MCAT no later than mid-July. Then submit your app in July (or even June of it won't distract from MCAT prep), and you'll still be on time for both MD and DO schools.

If you want, you can even take the advanced science courses in the fall (register and include them as in progress in your app). That way, you can update your app in December with the grades in those courses, and it still might help you out to get more ii's.

 

[ortnakas]

None of the courses are required, and you'll make it through med school having only taken the pre-reqs, but physiology is one of those courses that's the base of everything you learn, even when you're learning path in 2nd year. Knowing it will make the process easier.

I completely agree with this. It sounds like taking an easy semester to give you MCAT prep time is probably your best bet, but I'd mix in physio too. It'll actually help a bit with your MCAT bio, and having a bit of a background will be valuable when you get to MSI.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

Not true, my GPA and MCAT was around that range, I also went to one of the top 3 Ivy League schools and only got a couple of interviews at MD schools, I got lot of invites from DO schools.

I can tell you that C- in Organic Chemistry from Yale will keep you out of medical school but an A in the same subject at a community college will not. Also I have taken some course work at a local junior college and did not find a difference in difficulty. I am a non traditional medical student and took some of my pre-requisite courses after I completed my undergraduate studies.

Also they do look at how well you challenged yourself during your studies, if you took a lot of easy courses they will figure it out. Admissions people are smart, they can smell trouble a mile away.

I guess I am misunderstanding what you mean here, because it sounds to me like we are saying the same thing. A c-, regardless of how hard the course is, will probably be a deal breaker.

What I was trying to say was get As, get a 30+ on the MCAT.
You can "challenge yourself" all you want....but you need to get an interview before anyone in admissions gives a damn about how hard your classes were.

I realize this isnt ALWAYS true, so preemptively calm down all you nontrads...but getting an interview invite is a numbers game.

Getting an ACCEPTANCE, is when they start to look at the whole application.

Schools get thousands of applications. You are really naive if you think they arent tossing a good amount into the trash over GPA/MCAT alone. They physically could not "look at the whole applicant". Its not possible.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I guess I am misunderstanding what you mean here, because it sounds to me like we are saying the same thing. A c-, regardless of how hard the course is, will probably be a deal breaker.

What I was trying to say was get As, get a 30+ on the MCAT.
You can "challenge yourself" all you want....but you need to get an interview before anyone in admissions gives a damn about how hard your classes were.

I realize this isnt ALWAYS true, so preemptively calm down all you nontrads...but getting an interview invite is a numbers game.

Getting an ACCEPTANCE, is when they start to look at the whole application.

Schools get thousands of applications. You are really naive if you think they arent tossing a good amount into the trash over GPA/MCAT alone. They physically could not "look at the whole applicant". Its not possible.

This is true. Looking at applicants from the pre-interview stage is far more demanding than the post-interview stage. This is why taking a gander at the overall GPA and MCAT is far easier to weed people out than looking at any upward trend or phenomenal ECs.

 

[Whats up Doc!]

Medicine is a great field, the chances that you will own a palatial home and have Rolls and Lamborghini though are slim, but many young people have this impression that doctors have a license to print money. I guess that is one advantage I had over my peers who entered medical school straight from college, I worked at a real job, and learned how hard it is to earn money and how the real world works, the world is a very tough place. So I am not just some older guy with a bunch of early 20 somethings.

There is nothing wrong with a Toyota, LOL, its a lot more reliable than a Lamborghini!!! Still one can always dream.

If a school is "strongly" recommending something, it might be a good idea to take it.

Will I at least be able to buy and Audi or a BMW?!?! Lol

 

[Brownman55]

Will I at least be able to buy and Audi or a BMW?!?! Lol

Maybe not right away, but yes.