ADT confusion

[fitnesspremed]

Hey everyone!

Quick question for those who understand ADT and how it works with med school. I know if I go this summer to do OBC/ COT whatever (haven't picked branch for sure), that counts for the first year, and I know for third and fourth years you do actual clinical rotations with the military. However, I am really confused about the second year. Some people have said it's a 45 day rotation at a community based military hospital, and some say it's really nothing, you just get paid more. This is confusing and I'm not sure my school actually has 45 days off next summer. Please let me know if you all have any insight!
Thanks!

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[FutureNavyFP]

Hey everyone!

Quick question for those who understand ADT and how it works with med school. I know if I go this summer to do OBC/ COT whatever (haven't picked branch for sure), that counts for the first year, and I know for third and fourth years you do actual clinical rotations with the military. However, I am really confused about the second year. Some people have said it's a 45 day rotation at a community based military hospital, and some say it's really nothing, you just get paid more. This is confusing and I'm not sure my school actually has 45 days off next summer. Please let me know if you all have any insight!
Thanks!

This is how things usually work. If you do a 4 year HPSP, you are required to do 4 AT periods of 45 days. The first can be done before you start med school or between 1st and 2nd year at ODS(OIS whatever)/OBC/COT. The second period is done between 2nd and 3rd year. You can go somwhere to do it if you want to, or you can do what I did and take school orders. This is where you can sit on your butt for 45 days and get paid to study for boards. Your 3rd and 4th periods can be done at whatever military hospitals you would like to end up for residency. It doesn't matter if you have 45 days or not, you will still get paid for it.

 

[FutureNavyFP]

Or you can do what I did, and take school orders the first two years, do two ADTs in your fourth year, and do OIS before internship.

Did you get the shortened version? I heard that they shortened it down for guys that did it before internship. This would definetly be a better deal. 😎

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

AF requires you to do COT BEFORE the first year of medical school in most cases. The summer after your first year is when you go to San Antonio for a class that introduces you to flight surgery and AF medicine in general. The remaining two ADT's are rotations at either military or civilian, whenever you can schedule them. I'm not sure if you can request to rotate at a civilian hospital for both years (I don't know why you would do that to begin with...)

Besides COT, each of the three ADT's are only four weeks long, but you still get paid for the full 45 days.

 

[sethco]

AF requires you to do COT BEFORE the first year of medical school in most cases. The summer after your first year is when you go to San Antonio for a class that introduces you to flight surgery and AF medicine in general. The remaining two ADT's are rotations at either military or civilian, whenever you can schedule them. I'm not sure if you can request to rotate at a civilian hospital for both years (I don't know why you would do that to begin with...)

Besides COT, each of the three ADT's are only four weeks long, but you still get paid for the full 45 days.

The introductory SAM course for med students is a joke and a complete waste of a otherwise valuable ADT. Likewise, using school orders is also a complete waste of an ADT. Why not just defer your 2nd year ADT and do 3 ADTs during your 3rd and 4th year rotations as "auditions"? That is what I did and I don't think that they have made the SAM course mandatory for med students or have they? I could not imagine they could accomodate all of the HPSP/ROTC/USUHS peeps in a single summer, but that is just me.

 

[NavyFP]

Or you can do what I did, and take school orders the first two years, do two ADTs in your fourth year, and do OIS before internship.

Some do this, but going to ODS/COT/OBC prior to graduation is a much better plan.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Some do this, but going to ODS/COT/OBC prior to graduation is a much better plan.

totally agree, this is a bad plan. If you miss the first few weeks of internship, when everyone is expected to be clueless, you'll have a tough time catching up in the first 2-3 months (which is when you make your impression for going straight through).

 

[psychbender]

Why not just defer your 2nd year ADT and do 3 ADTs during your 3rd and 4th year rotations as "auditions"? That is what I did

Don't know about the other branches, but I am almost dead certain that that is not an option for the Army. If it were, then I would have taken it, as I've got an NADT next year in the DC area that I'd like to get paid for. Looking for housing for a month truly sucks.

 

[HumptyDumptyMil]

The introductory SAM course for med students is a joke and a complete waste of a otherwise valuable ADT. Likewise, using school orders is also a complete waste of an ADT. Why not just defer your 2nd year ADT and do 3 ADTs during your 3rd and 4th year rotations as "auditions"? That is what I did and I don't think that they have made the SAM course mandatory for med students or have they? I could not imagine they could accomodate all of the HPSP/ROTC/USUHS peeps in a single summer, but that is just me.

I'm pretty sure that the SAM course is mandatory, unless they have changed it starting this year. I went to it last summer under the impression that it is required for ALL AF HPSP

 

[NavyFP]

I still can't figure out why everyone says this. I was able to do my audition rotations just fine, I started getting paid as an active duty LT six weeks before everyone else, and it didn't affect me in the match. Did it kind of suck to not have a summer before internship? Sure. But it also would have sucked to have to have given up one of my publications or conference presentations by not doing research one summer. I missed two or three weeks of the worthless intern orientation, which didn't impact me one bit.

All in all, unless you're actually going to arrive later than July 1, I don't see any problem at all with waiting.

Ask your program director how he/she feels about you getting there late.

 

[sethco]

I'm pretty sure that the SAM course is mandatory, unless they have changed it starting this year. I went to it last summer under the impression that it is required for ALL AF HPSP

During the years I had the "scholarship" (2001-2005), it was not mandatory. This may have changed. For anybody with questions, I would suggest they call AFIT for definitive confirmation.

BTW, what did you think of the course? Did you get to go in the centrifuge or the simulator at Brooks? Anything fun?

 

[AFDuck]

A couple of 4-yr AF HPSPers at my school went to COT between their 1st and 2nd years, just because their orders didn't come in time the summer before first year. So in their case, and mine as a 3 year HPSP recipient, SAM was not required. Maybe if you have nothing going on between 1s and 2nd year it is, but I thought it was optional (aka pass on it to do research). Just my experience...

 

[Gastrapathy]

I still can't figure out why everyone says this. I was able to do my audition rotations just fine, I started getting paid as an active duty LT six weeks before everyone else, and it didn't affect me in the match. Did it kind of suck to not have a summer before internship? Sure. But it also would have sucked to have to have given up one of my publications or conference presentations by not doing research one summer. I missed two or three weeks of the worthless intern orientation, which didn't impact me one bit.

All in all, unless you're actually going to arrive later than July 1, I don't see any problem at all with waiting.

How can you say it didn't affect you in the match? Its kinda hard to know, isn't it? Its not like you read every letter and scoring sheet.

I know this much, when someone shows up late over something that everyone else found time to do, it doesn't make a positive first impression. One of the interns on my ward team did this and had to take ACLS in the middle of wards, so even though he started on time, someone else had to cover for him. Good intern, bad first impression (and yes, I'm sure about that). Fair or not, I wouldn't show up late if you don't have to. Showing up late cause you couldn't fit OIS into the preceeding 4 years falls clearly into this category.

 

[LauraDO]

A couple of 4-yr AF HPSPers at my school went to COT between their 1st and 2nd years, just because their orders didn't come in time the summer before first year. So in their case, and mine as a 3 year HPSP recipient, SAM was not required. Maybe if you have nothing going on between 1s and 2nd year it is, but I thought it was optional (aka pass on it to do research). Just my experience...

ahh, interesting thanks, this will be my scenario, wont do COT until after 1st year. So do you know if they ended up only doing 3 ADT's?

 

[MaximusD]

AF requires you to do COT BEFORE the first year of medical school in most cases. The summer after your first year is when you go to San Antonio for a class that introduces you to flight surgery and AF medicine in general. The remaining two ADT's are rotations at either military or civilian, whenever you can schedule them. I'm not sure if you can request to rotate at a civilian hospital for both years (I don't know why you would do that to begin with...)

Besides COT, each of the three ADT's are only four weeks long, but you still get paid for the full 45 days.

What about those accepting 3-yr scholarships? Would I do the program you just described or COT the first summer between M1 and M2?

 

[deuist]

The introductory SAM course for med students is a joke and a complete waste of a otherwise valuable ADT. Likewise, using school orders is also a complete waste of an ADT. Why not just defer your 2nd year ADT and do 3 ADTs during your 3rd and 4th year rotations as "auditions"? That is what I did and I don't think that they have made the SAM course mandatory for med students or have they? I could not imagine they could accomodate all of the HPSP/ROTC/USUHS peeps in a single summer, but that is just me.

SAM is indeed mandatory now as it is a method of recruiting people into flight surgery. It's been shortened to two weeks, flying time has been removed, and we spend most of our time touring museums and looking forward to leaving by 3:00pm. At least San Antonio is a fun city hang around at nights and on weekends. But I agree with your first sentence---it was a joke and a complete waste of an ADT. I would have rather spent that summer doing something else with military medicine.