Advantages to going to more Renowned Medical Schools??

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johnwandering

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You can probably tell from my previous posts that I'm in no way on the fast track to Harvard; in fact I'll be happy to get in ANYWHERE.
But I was wondering, what is the advantage to going to higher ranked medical schools than lower and cheaper ones? I know the obvious answer is the education you get, but do hospitals/patients really care which med school you graduated from?

My family makes sub 27K a year, and I have to pretty much take out everything in loans. It seems to be the best thing for me to find the cheapest medical school I can.


But is there really any motivation for me to pass up an acceptance and take a year doing research & Post-Bac in order to get into a higher ranked medical school?
 
You can probably tell from my previous posts that I'm in no way on the fast track to Harvard; in fact I'll be happy to get in ANYWHERE.
But I was wondering, what is the advantage to going to higher ranked medical schools than lower and cheaper ones? I know the obvious answer is the education you get, but do hospitals/patients really care which med school you graduated from?

My family makes sub 27K a year, and I have to pretty much take out everything in loans. It seems to be the best thing for me to find the cheapest medical school I can.


But is there really any motivation for me to pass up an acceptance and take a year doing research & Post-Bac in order to get into a higher ranked medical school?

No. Get in, get out, get on to make $😀$.
 
As far as what patients think, my experience is that patients don't generally ask physicians about their educational background. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as how a more "prestigious" education can matter to you, if we're talking about big names and high US News rankings, maybe research money? Greater availability of research opportunities? Not really sure if this even makes a difference when you're a med student. In choosing a school, I think it's much more important to think about things like location, support services, extracurricular opportunities, etc.

I haven't read your previous posts, but if you already were holding an acceptance, I believe it's no good to drop it and reapply the next cycle. I'd take a year off if you really think you need the help with getting into any med school at all or if there are things you really want to do with the time.
 
You can probably tell from my previous posts that I'm in no way on the fast track to Harvard; in fact I'll be happy to get in ANYWHERE.
But I was wondering, what is the advantage to going to higher ranked medical schools than lower and cheaper ones? I know the obvious answer is the education you get, but do hospitals/patients really care which med school you graduated from?

My family makes sub 27K a year, and I have to pretty much take out everything in loans. It seems to be the best thing for me to find the cheapest medical school I can.


But is there really any motivation for me to pass up an acceptance and take a year doing research & Post-Bac in order to get into a higher ranked medical school?




heath_ledger_as_the_joker_the_dark_knight_movie_image1.jpg



AND here....we....GO!
 
My family makes sub 27K a year, and I have to pretty much take out everything in loans. It seems to be the best thing for me to find the cheapest medical school I can.

You would be eligible for some great need-based aid from private schools.
 
Also, going to a higher ranking medical school may make you more eligible for harder-to-get residences, such as dermatology or neurosurgery. Remember that the med students coming out of Yale are competing with the med students coming out of a lower school to compete for a set number of residency spots. If you want to become something less specific, such as a pediatrician or general surgeon, then its probably not neccessary to waste the money at the Ivy League
 
Med school prestige matters VERY, VERY little in terms of residency selection (both specialty and program specific). What you do (in terms of board scores, clinical grades, letters of rec, interview) matters way more than where you do it. Talking orders of magnitude difference in this regard.

Yes, it's not a bad decision to go to a cheaper medical school. Keep in mind though that most medical students take out large amounts of loans, and most are considered independent of their families in terms of paying. However, the biggest thing is that you need to get accepted into multiple medical schools first before worrying about which one is more economical...considering most students get ONLY ONE acceptance, it's often an issue that ends up being ignored.
 
Bragging rights? Seeing random peoples' faces light up when you tell them where you are going to medical school?

Let's not be so jaded about the potential benefits. OP, people here more than anywhere else will neglect or outright deny some of the benefits of a higher ranked school. Most of the time they're right but it does pain me to see people suggest that the only benefit is "bragging rights".
 
Let's not be so jaded about the potential benefits. OP, people here more than anywhere else will neglect or outright deny some of the benefits of a higher ranked school. Most of the time they're right but it does pain me to see people suggest that the only benefit is "bragging rights".

Sorry, the sarcasm doesn't really come out really well in my post. Of course, bragging rights isn't the only benefit but sometimes I think people put a bit too much emphasis on that kind of thing, more so than the other relevant factors there are. I went to a "renowned" school for undergrad and I think it's nice to at least feel that I wasn't limited at all by the school I went to.. I'll never know exactly what effect the school name itself had on my endeavors, but I still subscribe to the belief that what you actually do is more important.
 
Isn't Law2Doc supposed to be here about now?
 
For the most part, people who are attending or have attended a prestigious institution will tell you it matters more...

people who are not attending such an institution will, again for the most part, tell you its less important.

Personally, I think its all about the people you interact with and the environment that you work in and how well you do. Choose your best fit, whether it is an Ivy League or some Caribbean school...it matters not as long as you are happy.
 
It does matter in the process to some. I know a residency director and he told me that when hes deciding who gets in it matters to him and the difference between say UCSF and NYMC or some other lower school can play a role. In his mind the difference between UCSF and NYMC is similar to the difference between MD and DO when hes evaluating candidates. He said theres been times when hes seen candidates who have great step 1 scores and all that but due to the fact they came from podunk med school or were DO hes denied them over another who has somewhat similar scores at a better school. In the end though this is one residency directors opinion and im sure other directors feel differntly. I personally feel its probably like medical school admissions. Does coming from an ivy league or other top schools help? Sure in some cases it might but overall it probably wont make a large difference in the end.


Wow, just....wow.
 
I know the obvious answer is the education you get
Actually, I would not say that this is obvious, but rather incorrect. US News rankings really don't reveal much about the education that one receives at a medical school, since it is largely based on research dollars and subjective surveys. Firstly, the perception of a school's educational quality is going to vary between medical students, depending on their study habits and preferences. What works well for one person may not work so well for another, which will cause the two individuals to have vastly different opinions about their education. Secondly, as with undergraduate institutions, the quality of the education will depend a lot on the professors who teach. "Better" schools may ultimately attract "better" professors, but more often than not it is their research and contributions - rather than their teaching - that gets them hired. Thus, even at top schools, you may find yourself in class with some very undesirable professors. Given that the first two years of medical school are spent almost entirely in class, this is of great importance, although it is admittedly very hard to choose a school based on this as a pre-med. Finally, due to the rigid accreditation standards of the LCME, all medical schools will teach you the same base material. What tends to differ is technical in nature, namely how they go about doing it (IE: PBL or no PBL, time spent in lecture, number of quizzes/tests, etc...) Again, as with the first point, the "quality" of these technical factors will depend more on student preferences than institution prestige.

So, to echo the above post, go with fit. If "fit" for you entails prestige (IE: your performance would suffer because you'd be constantly preoccupied with going to the "lesser" school), then so be it. Just don't expect there to be any guaranteed correlations between prestige and career success, since that - in my opinion - is far, far more driven by your own merits, and the true effects of prestige are very difficult to assess/unlikely to matter for the majority of medical students.
 
You would be eligible for some great need-based aid from private schools.
Not necessarily true. My parents make $35k a year combined, and the most need based aid I have gotten so far was $10k from SLU. Creighton didn't give me any need based and OSU gave me $6k. Far from great.
 
I know the obvious answer is the education you get, but do hospitals/patients really care which med school you graduated from?

The education won't necessarily be better at a prestigious school.

Some residency programs (usually ones that are prestigious themselves) and some patients will care which med school you went to, but the vast majority will not.
 
For the most part, people who are attending or have attended a prestigious institution will tell you it matters more...

people who are not attending such an institution will, again for the most part, tell you its less important.

Personally, I think its all about the people you interact with and the environment that you work in and how well you do. Choose your best fit, whether it is an Ivy League or some Caribbean school...it matters not as long as you are happy.

The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
 
Also, going to a higher ranking medical school may make you more eligible for harder-to-get residences, such as dermatology or neurosurgery. Remember that the med students coming out of Yale are competing with the med students coming out of a lower school to compete for a set number of residency spots. If you want to become something less specific, such as a pediatrician or general surgeon, then its probably not neccessary to waste the money at the Ivy League

just curious to know how you made that conclusion.


That is all
 
Medical school doesn't matter too much. Residency is the big kahuna. however, some med schools have a better track record for sending students of to better residencies...so look into that. also, some schools have better records in terms of things like board scores, which matters for residency. the school's format should also factor into your decision making for doing good on the boards

i.e. (my roommate was just talking about this yesterday) Duke is a great school, but they shove 2 years into 1.5, and in your last half of the second year, you do research. Some people would love it, but thats class time that you could be using to study for the boards...just something to take into consideration.
 
i.e. (my roommate was just talking about this yesterday) Duke is a great school, but they shove 2 years into 1.5, and in your last half of the second year, you do research. Some people would love it, but thats class time that you could be using to study for the boards...just something to take into consideration.

I was not aware of this. Do you know if Duke students complain about this or if it has hurt their performance on the boards? Either would be interesting to know.
 
just curious to know how you made that conclusion.


That is all
It's assanine. I know Indiana doesn't give a sht if you went to harvard because they prefer people who want to stay in indiana. If you're an indiana resident with good board scores, you'll have an advantage in getting into their residency spots. Some people are way to ridiculous sometimes about the prestige of medical school and where they end up in terms of specialty. You really think every ortho specialty is taken up by only ivy league people?👎
 
It's assanine. I know Indiana doesn't give a sht if you went to harvard because they prefer people who want to stay in indiana. If you're an indiana resident with good board scores, you'll have an advantage in getting into their residency spots. Some people are way to ridiculous sometimes about the prestige of medical school and where they end up in terms of specialty. You really think every ortho specialty is taken up by only ivy league people? 👎

OF COURSE NOT!

I just find it hilariously absurd when another premed comments on something as if he/she is quite knowledgeable when, in all acutality, he/she is mostly reliant on anecdotal evidence at best
 
OF COURSE NOT!

I just find it hilariously absurd when another premed comments on something as if he/she is quite knowledgeable when, in all acutality, he/she is mostly reliant on anecdotal evidence at best

Some people even think the Ivy leaguers are 'rich, arrogant, elitist bastards'. Especially outside of the northeast. It is, after all, just a sports league.

A lot of this is regional. The southern states want you to stay in the family. The midwest loves Michigan (unless you're from Ohio), and the west really needs to catch up and build some more schools (which they're starting to do).

I seriously doubt any school will get you universal recognition and praise. Even if you go to Harvard, you will find detractors (especially from Yale).

And, in general, not everyone - patients, residency directors, or med students - wants the same thing. Truth is, if you're going to a MD granting school you'll be in good shape. Maybe you won't get the fanciest guns but you'll get your shot. Consider that many of your colleagues won't even have a US degree.
 
Bragging rights? Seeing random peoples' faces light up when you tell them where you are going to medical school?

Unfortunately those who go to UCSF don't receive much return in this area--for the most part, the only people who know A) What UCSF is and B) how prestigious it is, are mostly people in the medical/bioscience community, and perhaps those who live in SF.

Most Californians, and even a higher proportion of Americans, just don't know what UCSF is because it isn't a "typical UC." The general population thinks highly of UCLA's medical school because we know how prestigious UCLA is as a major academic institution, with an undergrad program, etc. The same goes for Harvard, Yale, etc. etc. And most people would say they would love a doctor from Princeton, yet they have no medical school... The public just generally doesn't know much about medical schools, except perhaps that Johns Hopkins is one of the best

Technically UCSF was UC Berkeley's medical school, back when UCB was the one and only "University of California" and UCSF was the "Medical Department of the University of California," but as far as I know, now there is no connection between the two except for the JMP and other collaborative efforts.

But most people don't know that either...

Anyway, to add my opinion to the debate, I think that going to a prestigious school will score you some points--but I'm not sure if it's that significant. I agree with others you should primarily choose a school that is the best fit for you--the last thing you want is to be unhappy and miserable at a prestigious school. I'd much prefer to be at an average or below average school and be happy 🙂, since even the below average medical schools are still extremeley competent.
 
It does matter in the process to some. I know a residency director and he told me that when hes deciding who gets in it matters to him and the difference between say UCSF and NYMC or some other lower school can play a role. In his mind the difference between UCSF and NYMC is similar to the difference between MD and DO when hes evaluating candidates. He said theres been times when hes seen candidates who have great step 1 scores and all that but due to the fact they came from podunk med school or were DO hes denied them over another who has somewhat similar scores at a better school. In the end though this is one residency directors opinion and im sure other directors feel differntly. I personally feel its probably like medical school admissions. Does coming from an ivy league or other top schools help? Sure in some cases it might but overall it probably wont make a large difference in the end.

This is ridiculous and, quite frankly, sounds made up. But please don't take my comments as a response to only the bolded portion of your post. The whole thing is dumb.
 
This is ridiculous and, quite frankly, sounds made up. But please don't take my comments as a response to only the bolded portion of your post. The whole thing is dumb.
its not made up, but thast ok if you think that. Anytime anyone says something different then what the whole sdn pre med community thinks means you are a troll or a *****. I even said after i thought it was odd that he said that. I know you as a pre med know everything and as a typical idiot SDN pre med you must attack anyone who questions what you think is truth. I certainly dont think what he told me is the general concensus of all those who decide residency positions. But its also not so crazy to think that certain directors are going to favor certain schools or ones they think are top....I hate pre meds so much, hopefully my class isnt filled with *****s.
 
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"ranking" of your school does have some effect on the residency selection process, although it is not as important as things like Step I and class rank. So someone from a less prestigious school can still do well if they are at the top of their class and have a top step I score. The problem with "rankings" is that every program director has their own opinions of what are considered "top" schools. US News is only used by premed students; I can tell you that most residency directors don 't even know the rankings or give half a crap (even the residency director number...it is only decided by a small minority of program directors in certain fields). They have their own list of schools that they think are best in their specialty inside of their own head (and it will vary depending on the field that you choose). There are regional preferences (people from one region of the country will think more highly of a school than somebody not from that region), and preferences based on past residents they have trained and where they and their colleagues went to school. Most important is how strong your school's department is in the specialty that you are applying to. For instance, if your dermatology department is one of the best in the country, then the program directors will probably favor graduates from that school because of the caliber of the letters and connections that those medical students will have. Since as a premed you don't know what specialty you want to do, it will be difficult for you to assess this.\
 
Not necessarily true. My parents make $35k a year combined, and the most need based aid I have gotten so far was $10k from SLU. Creighton didn't give me any need based and OSU gave me $6k. Far from great.

I forgot to add the word "some". My experience has been totally different, but to be fair it was from schools with large endowments.
 
its not made up, but thast ok if you think that. Anytime anyone says something different then what the whole sdn pre med community thinks means you are a troll or a *****. I even said after i thought it was odd that he said that. I know you as a pre med know everything and as a typical idiot SDN pre med you must attack anyone who questions what you think is truth. I certainly dont think what he told me is the general concensus of all those who decide residency positions. But its also not so crazy to think that certain directors are going to favor certain schools or ones they think are top....I hate pre meds so much, hopefully my class isnt filled with *****s.

Funny how people cite this to explain thier anecdotal evidence...ALL THE TIME. I'm not calling you a liar, Elijah. Just saying this argument is waaaaay overused. Somewhat valid, but what's the point? People are still going to fill all the allopathic schools regardless...and yes, that includes "lower ranked ones". But calling it equal to a DO program is asinine.

I'm sure there are some old, decrepit, narrow-minded PDs out there. But I don't plan on looking out west for my residency so I'll luckily never get to meet this SOB.
 
OP,

after it's all said and done and you're on the job hunt, name recognition will take you very far. undergrad prestige and medical school prestige are both extremely valuable for future opportunities but more important than each of those is the specific high school you attended. but, i guess everyone knows that.
 
Funny how people cite this to explain thier anecdotal evidence...ALL THE TIME. I'm not calling you a liar, Elijah. Just saying this argument is waaaaay overused. Somewhat valid, but what's the point? People are still going to fill all the allopathic schools regardless...and yes, that includes "lower ranked ones". But calling it equal to a DO program is asinine.

I'm sure there are some old, decrepit, narrow-minded PDs out there. But I don't plan on looking out west for my residency so I'll luckily never get to meet this SOB.

My whole point though wasnt that all residency directors think this way and this is the ABSOLUTE truth, i went out of my way to say it wasnt. I just wanted to share what one person told me who at least is involved in the process. I have no problem with NYMC or any school that is "lower" so to speak as with my stats thats the best i can do anyways. I do think it was asanine what he said but he said it...i guess its best to never say anything from the norm though...so ill just delete what i said.
 
My whole point though wasnt that all residency directors think this way and this is the ABSOLUTE truth, i went out of my way to say it wasnt. I just wanted to share what one person told me who at least is involved in the process. I have no problem with NYMC or any school that is "lower" so to speak as with my stats thats the best i can do anyways. I do think it was asanine what he said but he said it...i guess its best to never say anything from the norm though...so ill just delete what i said.

No need to, its informative to know someone out there thinks like that. I don't take it as a personal insult from you so please don't think that I viewed it that way. Nor is it necessary because it contradicts "the norm" on SDN. This is an open forum to discuss personal opinions and your anecdotal evidence, though I disagree with that specific PD, is still valid.
 
its not made up, but thast ok if you think that. Anytime anyone says something different then what the whole sdn pre med community thinks means you are a troll or a *****. I even said after i thought it was odd that he said that. I know you as a pre med know everything and as a typical idiot SDN pre med you must attack anyone who questions what you think is truth. I certainly don't think what he told me is the general concensus of all those who decide residency positions. But its also not so crazy to think that certain directors are going to favor certain schools or ones they think are top....I hate pre meds so much, hopefully my class isn't filled with *****s.

Whoa, cool it. Why exactly am I a *****? Because of your vehement response I believe that you actually met a residency director who actually said what you wrote. Regardless, if he/she actually believes that anything a school that is middle-tier (e.g., NYMC) is equivalent to any DO program (simply for the fact that it's not, for instance, UCSF) then this makes me believe that this person isn't too bright. In fact, the statement is so absurd that my first conclusion was that you made it up. Again, if it's the truth then it's unsettling to know that a program picks its residents off seemingly arbitrary facts. But you really shouldn't blame me for questioning the reliability of a random anecdote starting with "I know a residency director..." and ending with how he/she treats normal MD programs as indistinguishable from DO ones.

Next time calm down before you respond. I called your post dumb. In response you called me (not my post) a *****. Who comes off more reasonable?
 
i.e. (my roommate was just talking about this yesterday) Duke is a great school, but they shove 2 years into 1.5, and in your last half of the second year, you do research. Some people would love it, but thats class time that you could be using to study for the boards...just something to take into consideration.

That's not the case, but you're close. We cram the first 2 years into 11 months, then do 13 months of clinical rotations followed by 10-12 months of research [or a few years of another degree, etc]. And you're wrong about not getting the time to study for the boards. We have an entire research year where you can study. Some people end up in labs where they don't have a lot of time off to study, but if you choose you can make the year easy as pie and study, vacation, etc. I did a reasonably tough 3rd year but still had plenty of time to take off for Step 1 and was very happy with my score.
 
OP,

after it's all said and done and you're on the job hunt, name recognition will take you very far. undergrad prestige and medical school prestige are both extremely valuable for future opportunities but more important than each of those is the specific high school you attended. but, i guess everyone knows that.

oops, I just knew I should've gone to Exeter... :laugh:

anyway, my view on this - I live in an area with a prestigious medical school nearby, and my mom is one who looks at pedigree for her doctors (in IM at least) - she (in jest, of course) told me she wouldn't come to me as a patient with the school choices I have available, and I assured her I would enter a specialty where the patient is given no choice whether to see me or not (namely, something like EM)

in seriousness, it really depends on where you want to be - I sometimes kick myself about how poorly I did in undergrad, because I want to be in policy at some point in my life and pedigree is VERY important there (and I'm hoping my masters gives me that even if med degree doesn't), but if you just want to practice on patients, and you don't plan to be in a Boston, SF, or Ann Arbor, very few people will care about anything than whether you are competent and compassionate.
 
They [residency directors] have their own list of schools that they think are best in their specialty inside of their own head (and it will vary depending on the field that you choose). There are regional preferences (people from one region of the country will think more highly of a school than somebody not from that region), and preferences based on past residents they have trained and where they and their colleagues went to school. Most important is how strong your school's department is in the specialty that you are applying to. For instance, if your dermatology department is one of the best in the country, then the program directors will probably favor graduates from that school because of the caliber of the letters and connections that those medical students will have. Since as a premed you don't know what specialty you want to do, it will be difficult for you to assess this.


Overall very true statements. I'd also add that the history of your school at that institution/program can make a HUGE difference as well. If a residency has had quality residents emerge from one medical school time and time again, mini-pipelines get set up and suddenly there end up being significant numbers of students heading that way...and occasionally the other way too as the residents can be well liked and encourage students to look at their (the resident's) alma mater. These pipelines often extend past regional biases. My medical school deans encourage students from my Great Plains school going into IM to look at Utah and Dartmouth because of our success there. For Pediatrics, Ohio State/Nationwide Children's has been a consistent destination.

The last sentance is the important factor in all of this...even if you knew exactly where you wanted to be in 10 years, it's impossible as an outsider to gather the information about these things. And since every pre-med (despite how much they believe they know) really has no clue what specialty they'll end up loving, it becomes even more impossible.
 
Unfortunately those who go to UCSF don't receive much return in this area--for the most part, the only people who know A) What UCSF is and B) how prestigious it is, are mostly people in the medical/bioscience community, and perhaps those who live in SF.

Most Californians, and even a higher proportion of Americans, just don't know what UCSF is because it isn't a "typical UC." The general population thinks highly of UCLA's medical school because we know how prestigious UCLA is as a major academic institution, with an undergrad program, etc. The same goes for Harvard, Yale, etc. etc. And most people would say they would love a doctor from Princeton, yet they have no medical school... The public just generally doesn't know much about medical schools, except perhaps that Johns Hopkins is one of the best

Technically UCSF was UC Berkeley's medical school, back when UCB was the one and only "University of California" and UCSF was the "Medical Department of the University of California," but as far as I know, now there is no connection between the two except for the JMP and other collaborative efforts.

But most people don't know that either...

Anyway, to add my opinion to the debate, I think that going to a prestigious school will score you some points--but I'm not sure if it's that significant. I agree with others you should primarily choose a school that is the best fit for you--the last thing you want is to be unhappy and miserable at a prestigious school. I'd much prefer to be at an average or below average school and be happy 🙂, since even the below average medical schools are still extremeley competent.


I agree...ha...out here at Penn, most questioned why I was so psyched about receiving an interview from UCSF
 
That's not the case, but you're close. We cram the first 2 years into 11 months, then do 13 months of clinical rotations followed by 10-12 months of research [or a few years of another degree, etc]. And you're wrong about not getting the time to study for the boards. We have an entire research year where you can study. Some people end up in labs where they don't have a lot of time off to study, but if you choose you can make the year easy as pie and study, vacation, etc. I did a reasonably tough 3rd year but still had plenty of time to take off for Step 1 and was very happy with my score.

Yea, wasn't sure about the time. knew it was 2nd or 3rd year...thanks for clearing that up.

and the boards things, i never said it wasn't good, obviously some people will have an easier time than others...but, there are other schools that give you much more time. I know here at Dartmouth, you can swing it to get over 2 solid months off to study. schools take different approaches to them and all i meant was that it should def be a factor because they mean so much.
 
OF COURSE NOT!

I just find it hilariously absurd when another premed comments on something as if he/she is quite knowledgeable when, in all acutality, he/she is mostly reliant on anecdotal evidence at best
It's so cute. It's like your little brother who believes santa is real.:meanie:
 
You can probably tell from my previous posts that I'm in no way on the fast track to Harvard; in fact I'll be happy to get in ANYWHERE.
But I was wondering, what is the advantage to going to higher ranked medical schools than lower and cheaper ones? I know the obvious answer is the education you get, but do hospitals/patients really care which med school you graduated from?

My family makes sub 27K a year, and I have to pretty much take out everything in loans. It seems to be the best thing for me to find the cheapest medical school I can.


But is there really any motivation for me to pass up an acceptance and take a year doing research & Post-Bac in order to get into a higher ranked medical school?

Some of the higher ranked schools with large endowments (which are mainly private schools in the top 15-20) have a lot of need-based financial aid to offer. Sometimes they offer so much need-based aid that it would be more cost effective to go to one of those than to go to your own state school.
 
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