Advice for a Non-Trad admitted to class of 2013

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sumstorm

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So, I am sure that I am capable of handling vet school (since I figure that might be one of the first things brought up) however, I do believe that my skills are rusty.

I have recently taken 5 classes, including biochem, genetics, and animal nutrition. However, it has been 8 years since I have sat through an academic lecture.

Any suggestions on what I might do to 'tune up' my academic skills?

Also, while in undergrad, I was diagnosed ADD, but opted not to have any treatment (I am also dyslexic). Is this something I should consider (via consultation with a doctor) before starting vet school? Or should I assume that since I made it through undergrad, I will be ok?

Wow, now that I have an acceptance, I have a lot of other junk to worry about! :idea:
 
Yay nontraditionals!

I was in a similar situation - had only taken a few lectures leading up to veterinary school with a large gap from undergrad. I won't lie; it is hard to make the adjustment back to full-time school but it is definitely doable.

Here's what works for me, YMMV:

- Use my laptop (tablet PC) to take notes during class. Our professors publish lectures online so you can download them and take notes directly on the slides.
- Review the day's material within 24 hours (lectures and labs). Doesn't have to be a long, drawn-out procedure; just skimming it works for me. It helps me retain more and to not fall behind.
- For extra-difficult courses (ahem, cardiology) I try to read the syllabus or lecture slides BEFORE class and note any unclear areas. That way I know where to pay super-close attention and ask questions if I still don't understand.
- Study in groups where it works for you - this might take some iterations. I've found that I really need to study in a group for anatomy practical (lab identification) exams, but I prefer studying alone for written exams.

Finally, take it easy the first couple of months. Don't join every club in the school, take an officer position in each of those clubs, get a job, and go the bar 2-3 times per week. Give yourself time to settle into a rhythm.

p.s. Regarding ADD, I don't know ... there are others on the forum who can probably address that better than I.
 
I've found one of the most helpful studying tactics for me throughout undergrad was to read the text material before class. (and after) But especially before because then you know what questions you'll need to ask. It's always kept me ahead of the game🙂 You seem to have a stellar work ethic, I think you'll be just fine.
 
Also, while in undergrad, I was diagnosed ADD, but opted not to have any treatment (I am also dyslexic). Is this something I should consider (via consultation with a doctor) before starting vet school? Or should I assume that since I made it through undergrad, I will be ok?

GET TREATMENT

Vet school and even grad school are not like undergrad. I made it through 2 bachelors degrees with undiagnosed ADHD (though my sparkling 3.25 GPA is a testament to what "made it" really means..) and now that I am on medication, looking back on it, I could kick my own ass for not seeking help earlier. I've been on medication for this since September, and the 2 or 3 days I forgot my meds at home and couldn't take my afternoon dose really made me wonder how I ever made it, honestly.
 
Nontrad here, and I had gone seven years without taking ANY classes. I was pretty worried that I had forgotten everything I previously knew about note-taking and studying! I completely feel your pain/anxiety. 🙂

With your work ethic, you should be fine--but I agree with nyanko about getting treatment for the ADD. I haven't experienced this personally, but know several people who have repeated years of vet school because of untreated/undiagnosed ADD. Nyanko's right--there's a ton more work than I ever did in undergrad.

I didn't do anything to tune up my academic skills, but I did spend a lot of time thinking about how I learn best and what my routine should be in school. I also did some research on learning styles and read through other threads here on how best to study and took some advice. (For instance, I know so many folks swear by flashcards, but I CANNOT study that way!) 🙂
 
This is a good thread. I was slightly concerned since it has been 10 years since I graduated from college. I am glad I am not the only one.

I have spoken with a couple students who stated that studying in groups was very beneficial for lab practicals as well.

Sheltergirl: was the transition difficult because it had been so long since you had to sit and read each night or was it more material based?
 
Put another one in the column for getting treatment for your ADD. Stress tends to bring out mental illness and there is plenty of stress in vet school. There will be some nights when you have to concentrate for long periods before a test. I strongly recommend figuring out some medicine before you get there as it can be stressful to change medications during vet school.

As far as seeing whether the med is working, I suggest sitting down with a technical book or something other than total pleasure reading and seeing if you can concentrate for a few hours.

This is a book I found very helpful before vet school. (My school recommended it.) http://www.amazon.com/Veterinary-Me...bs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236878732&sr=8-4

Looking at the Successful Applicants thread, I can see that you've worked really hard to get where you are. Try as hard as you can before the tests start rolling along to read the material before or after class. It's hard to do that once you have 2 tests and a quiz in one week. Upperclassmen can be very valuable as far as letting you know which classes require more time. You'll probably meet some of them at orientation.
 
Put another one in the column for getting treatment for your ADD. Stress tends to bring out mental illness and there is plenty of stress in vet school. There will be some nights when you have to concentrate for long periods before a test. I strongly recommend figuring out some medicine before you get there as it can be stressful to change medications during vet school.

As far as seeing whether the med is working, I suggest sitting down with a technical book or something other than total pleasure reading and seeing if you can concentrate for a few hours.

This is a book I found very helpful before vet school. (My school recommended it.) http://www.amazon.com/Veterinary-Me...bs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236878732&sr=8-4



Looking at the Successful Applicants thread, I can see that you've worked really hard to get where you are. Try as hard as you can before the tests start rolling along to read the material before or after class. It's hard to do that once you have 2 tests and a quiz in one week. Upperclassmen can be very valuable as far as letting you know which classes require more time. You'll probably meet some of them at orientation.
DITTO!!!👍
 
Add my bald pate to the list of non-trads who will encourage you to at least investigate ADHD meds. I have a feeling that ADD/ADHD is a major part of why I, a guy who got a 1600 on the SAT sophomore year of high school dropped out of college after two years, on academic probation. It took me 10 years to get my butt back into school after that.

Still undiagnosed and unaware, I struggled through a year and a half of beating my head against the walll trying to study effectively when I came back. I could only sit at my desk at home to study for about 15 minutes w/o getting up and walking around. I would study for 15 minutes, walk around the apartment, study for another 15 minutes, take a break and pet my dogs. You get the picture. I was placed on antianxiety meds because I was always on edge it felt like. The stress of school did this to me, I was not nearly so bad before I returned to school. Anyhow, after the first 4 semesters, one day while at the health center, the NP that was in charge of my meds looked up at me, said "you can't sit still in a chair can you, I think you have ADD". I gave him a funny look, and said "I am 3x years old, that is something kids have". He told me just to try the meds and gave me some samples. I will say that the first few days were a bit of an experience -- the meds are amphetamines afterall. But, after 1 1/2 semesters on the meds, I had managed to bring my 3.02 GPA up to a 3.4 for graduation. I am in grad school now, and have a 4.0 so far! I give the meds a lot of the credit for my successful vet school applications this year, along with the hard work I was able to commit to.

Yes the meds are expensive, and I take half a capsule of Vyvance only on the mornings I need to hit the books that day, but for me they work, and are worth ANY cost. I cannot imagine trying grad or professional school without my little blue and white "study vitamins". Without them, I could not do this. However, I refuse to take them every day, nor do I intend to keep taking them after school is done or on my breaks. I too hate the idea of being dependent on anything, or anyone, and I do not like to admit to a lot of people I need to take them even now.

I say give them a try, and stick with them for at least two weeks before to make a decision, assuming you need them. With them, I no longer need my anxiety pills as well. I am able to focus, and that is all I really need for now.

My testamonial, 👍
Kai
 
I would agree with the advise to meet with someone before you start school and possibly get on meds for your ADD. I am also a nontrad. Went straight from undergrad to grad school and worked in human medicine for almost ten years before I started vet school.

I don't have a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD, but I can tell you that this time around paying attention in class and during studying is so much more difficult for me. The main thing I blame for this is technology. When i was in grad school and undergrad, we didn't have laptops in class. We had email, but did our research in the library with books, not Pubmed. During class we had no option but to listen and take notes (on paper, in our notebooks). Now, we have so much information at our fingertips. My computer is always open, and SDN can be much more entertaining than virology. It is so hard for me (as I write this I am sitting in class).

I would also recommend getting into an exercise routine as soon as you can. Exercise has been proven to help with focus and attention.

Good luck, you can do it!
 
How do they diagnose ADD? Is it based on a patient/verbal history?

I definitely can't SIT and study for hours... but I can study for hours if I make note cards, and then walk around with the note cards... I do take breaks every 20-30 minutes, but short ones and I feel refreshed when I go back to studying... I used to need music on and my laptop next to me to take mini-breaks and just check my email or something to divert my attention for a second... but I've pretty much gotten past that. I study in silence now b/c I read that it helps you retain info better, and I agree it really does.

Anyway not sure if I should be concerned? I had an almost perfect undergrad gpa and don't have trouble learning material for tests, but I don't tend to retain info for very long after an exam unless it's something that I was really interested in... just not sure if any of that stuff is "symptomatic"?
 
I would agree with the advise to meet with someone before you start school and possibly get on meds for your ADD. I am also a nontrad. Went straight from undergrad to grad school and worked in human medicine for almost ten years before I started vet school.

I don't have a diagnosis of ADD/ADHD, but I can tell you that this time around paying attention in class and during studying is so much more difficult for me. The main thing I blame for this is technology. When i was in grad school and undergrad, we didn't have laptops in class. We had email, but did our research in the library with books, not Pubmed. During class we had no option but to listen and take notes (on paper, in our notebooks). Now, we have so much information at our fingertips. My computer is always open, and SDN can be much more entertaining than virology. It is so hard for me (as I write this I am sitting in class).

I would also recommend getting into an exercise routine as soon as you can. Exercise has been proven to help with focus and attention.

Good luck, you can do it!

Didn't read this before I posted mine... but yea, I think this is really what my problem is too... I get sucked in to the computer and end up cramming the rest of my life in =p

My new years resolution (which got pushed off and is now a vet school acceptance resolution 😀) is to improve my memory... I saw this great PBS special by a man named Dr. Amen about improving brain function... now I'm drinking green tea daily, taking Omega-3, ginko, and vitamins, drinking less caffiene, and I just started exercising again. Once i'm on solid ground with all of that I plan on working on my internet addiction.... but it's so hard!!
 
I would recommend getting retested for ADHD/ADD sooner than later. I have this friend, ahem, who was diagnosed through kaiser, and had to go through this incredibly long and tedious process. It took 2 months, and she was told that she was lucky because it normally takes minimum of 6 months.

Later, this friend of mine decided she wanted to drop kaiser and go through her school insurance. Even though she had ALL her medical records faxed (including a letter from the psychiatrist who was an adult adhd specialist) she still had to go through the WHOLE testing process AGAIN. This included an interview with one of her parents (discussing childhood) AND a full length interview with a psychiatrist and OMG it was such a hassle.

From what I've heard, many places are getting accused of diagnosing too many people with adhd without doing the proper testing. Its the whole schedule-2 drug thing. Just in case, it might be worth looking into this at least a couple months before class begins.

Good luck!
 
Sheltergirl: was the transition difficult because it had been so long since you had to sit and read each night or was it more material based?

The hardest part for me was becoming efficient at studying. (Learning to sit and pay attention all day, every day, was a close second.)
Although my undergrad was difficult, the volume of material I needed to learn was like 1/10th (maybe less?) and I was in class maybe 20 hours per week vs. 35-40 in vet school.
 
How do they diagnose ADD? Is it based on a patient/verbal history?

...

Anyway not sure if I should be concerned? I had an almost perfect undergrad gpa and don't have trouble learning material for tests, but I don't tend to retain info for very long after an exam unless it's something that I was really interested in... just not sure if any of that stuff is "symptomatic"?

The point at which it becomes a clinical diagnosis is the point where it negatively affects your quality of life to a destructive degree.

My first semi-diagnosis (inattentive ADHD with comorb anxiety) was reached through a verbal history with a psychologist. My more official diagnosis to be submitted to insurance (combined type ADHD, without the anxiety - seems they mistook hyperactivity for anxiety the first time?) was reached through a verbal history, questionnaires filled out by myself, my parents and my live-in SO, my elementary school records (one important DSM-IV criteria is that it must have been present before the age of 7), some diagnostic computer testing, and lots of repetitive chitchat over a period of 3 months or so.

ADHD is more than just not being able to sit still or pay attention for extended periods of time - that's something everyone goes through from time to time, especially when the material isn't interesting to them. In a typical day of mine if I haven't taken my meds (and sometimes even if I have) my brain runs about 10 minutes late for everything, my mouth runs about 10 words ahead of my brain, I can't hold a real conversation because even if I try to focus on what the other person is saying I'm actually thinking about the color of their desk or something I forgot to do that morning or what I am going to say next. I leave the doors unlocked and the flat iron on in my rush to make it to the bus stop if I'm not riding my bike to campus that day (it's about 50/50 that I'll make the bus - usually it runs late and those are the days I do). I leave my laptop power cable home at least once every two weeks or so, my cell phone once a week. I forgot to lock up my bike last week and it got stolen. That's all just the tip of the iceberg. And I don't think my situation is all that bad compared to some others. :laugh:
 
Any advice for non-trads without ADD? I'm also concerned about improving my study skills, my attention span, my ability to retain information for long periods of time... I have been working full-time and taking 1-2 classes at a time for 5 years. It has been busy, but I've always had time/brain power to study for my 1-2 classes. I realize it will be a whole different ballgame with a full vet school course load. I get distracted easily, but I think it's about being bored and the whole overstimulation thing in our current world. I actually do some of my best studying in the car on my commutes because there is nothing else to do!

I'm also curious how non-trads adjust to being a poor student again. I have been working full-time for 10 years, and it has been 9 since I lived in a crappy, small apartment. I am used to having stuff, eating healthy, taking vacations. I know I will give up some things, and budget/make room for some other things I really can't live without. How have other people handled the switch from money-maker to poor-student, everything-I-spend-is-borrowed-money?
 
carolinaowl, you are not alone! I've been wondering the very same things. I haven't been a full-time student in 6 years, and I have a feeling I can't even imagine the sheer volume of information that's going to be thrown at me come September!

And on the money thing, man it's going to be a rough adjustment. I'm really trying to figure out just how frugal a lifestyle I am prepared to live. I've gotten a bit spoiled since undergrad.
 
Any advice for non-trads without ADD? I'm also concerned about improving my study skills, my attention span, my ability to retain information for long periods of time... I have been working full-time and taking 1-2 classes at a time for 5 years. It has been busy, but I've always had time/brain power to study for my 1-2 classes. I realize it will be a whole different ballgame with a full vet school course load. I get distracted easily, but I think it's about being bored and the whole overstimulation thing in our current world. I actually do some of my best studying in the car on my commutes because there is nothing else to do!

I'm also curious how non-trads adjust to being a poor student again. I have been working full-time for 10 years, and it has been 9 since I lived in a crappy, small apartment. I am used to having stuff, eating healthy, taking vacations. I know I will give up some things, and budget/make room for some other things I really can't live without. How have other people handled the switch from money-maker to poor-student, everything-I-spend-is-borrowed-money?

It's definitely an adjustment. I was also working full-time for several years before I became a poor student. I had managed to save quite a bit of money in that time. However, in order to get experience for vet school I had to quit my well paying human health care job to work at a vet clinic. During this time I basically had to use all the money I had saved to pay the bills. To complicate matters, I bought a condo before I decided to go back to school.

Since then, the housing market has crashed. I now have a condo I can't sell, but can't afford to live in. When I started school I accepted all the financial aid I was offered because I didn't know how the bills and spending would go. I have cut many things out of my life. At my condo I don't have cable or internet. I have the cheapest cell phone plan I can get. I take the bus as much as possible to avoid spending money on gas. I make coffee at home rather than stopping at a coffee shop on the way to school. I stopped drinking soda because I was spending too much money on it. I can't even tell you the last time I bought anything fun for myself. I rarely order my textbooks through school. Instead I search for the cheapest price online. Thankfully, my animals get free food through school. Does it suck? Of course. Is it impossible? Absolutely not. I just remind myself daily that the average family of four gets by on $40,000 a year. Every time I spend money I ask myself if what I am doing is necessary. That being said, I don't regret my decision one bit.

I have to admit that I am lucky. I moved in with my boyfriend so I can try and rent my condo. My mom doesn't live too far away, and she is known to buy me food and slip me 20's every now and then.

I would recommend that you have a good plan on how you will and won't spend your money during school. Figure this out during the summer so you are 100% prepared when school starts. It's only four years, right 🙂
 
That is a good point, and I probably cannot rule out the need to take meds after school is done. What I know if that I have lived 30+ years without the drugs, and that to be honest I only really take them say 3 days a week as it is. The funny thing with me is that if I am actually interested I can indeed focus for however long need be. But when it comes tom spending 6 or 7 hours studying neuroanatomy, forget it. 🙂 So perhaps I really am not ADD, or am just boarderline. I just do not like the idea of putting anything into my body I really do not need. Plus, there are side effects to the Vyvanse even now. There is no way I could fall asleep within say 8 hours of taking them. So I do not know. All I was trying to say was give them a try, they helped me.

Kai
 
I don't know what ADD is life for anyone else. For me, I have a very difficult time sitting through a lecture at all, even if I am interested, because my brain goes off in tangents. So say we start talking about nerves, my mind will skip through the first time I ever really learned about nerves (7th grade bio), then the first time I traced cadaver nerves (12th grade human anatomy), then through the diseases that affect nerves (medical microbio, college) and the nerve studies we did (neurobio, college) and the research my friend is doing (cephlapod pigmentation.) But it isn't even the need to course through those...in my mind I can actually feel myself in each situation again, and it is crucial the details be correct..meaning if something is 'off' it nags at me. Now, in one way this is really good...what information I do take in tends to be very solidly embedded in my mind...however, the process means that I don't catch all the information in a class because my mind is elsewhere.

As for other things, I constantly lose things.... things I use every day. I can lose paychecks, even when I am living paycheck to paycheck. I did well in college because I maintained a very strict schedule and was incredibly organized. Keys, phone, coat, wallet all went in the exact same place every time every day. I needed that level of organization to function. Throw a husband in the mix and my life became disasterous, because even if I have a routine and a place for everything, he can completly unsettled it (honey, I put your keys in your purse when I saw them on the foyer table...ARGH they were on the foyer table because that is where I always put them.)

I also show it emotionally. Give me an actual emergency, and I perform exceptionally well. Give me little stupid things going wrong all day long, and I will eventually explode (you moved my keys?! why on earth would you do that!) I tend to multitask even when I shouldn't, and I tend to constantly be in motion (tapping feet, pencil, doodling, etc) and I HATE chairs. I will perch on chairs, sit on my knees and with legs tucked under, stand if possible. In lines or while on the phone I pace, do toe touches and calf raises, etc.

I have been known to wake up from a dead sleep to work on something. Especially if I am doing research. My pattern is sleep two hours, wake up and fly to work for half an hour, sleep another hours, get up and work again. Not intentionally, just how my brain processes info. That will also happen when I am awake. I could be in class, and have a sudden brain flash and feel the desperate need to get info down for another class (not conducive to lectures!) I do exceptionally well in lab, and when working with animals I am incredibly patient. I am also accused of 'jumping topics' alot....in a conversation about, say how NASA's rovers are doing (hubby is an aeronautical engineer by education) I will end up talking about how we need to put DE on the ants near the front gate of our home. It isn't because I don't care about NASA or what hubby is interested in, but rather that the extreme conditions the rovers are going through combined with the duration they have served beyond expectations reminds me of how well biological modeling works for machines and how AI advancements are making more possible (close friend is an AI engineer) and how a great system for integrating multiple models would be ant colonies, and then I think of how there tend to be ant colonies in most environments, and how those adaptation would work for machines, which reminds me, we need to find a way to deal with the adaptions of the fire ants that are on my gate. All of that happens pretty quickly, but none-the less, I have moved through several topics, and if my husband didn't know me well, he might think I was just changing topics on him or that I wasn't interested in what he was talking about.

I actually LIKE how my brain works, especially in emergencies (I seem to process a lot of data quickly and come to conclussions pretty well) and in research (where i think my brain just tests a lot of ideas before latching onto what it needs.) However, as a student attending lectures, it isn't very helpful. Reading can be just as problematic, but for me, lectures are the worst.

Scheduling an appointment with my doctor.
 
You sound a lot like me, which is why I think we've butted heads a few times. People like me and me don't get along that well sometimes. :meanie:

edit: except that I've never been able to stick to a strict schedule + organization routine for longer than a week or so
 
For the non-trads without ADD, I was out of school for 12 years before I went back this year, and while it has been an adjustment, it has not been all bad. Let me make a list, because I love making lists.

Pros to being an older student:

Bars are boring now, so there's one time waster I don't have.
I am old enough to avoid the drama llama at school.
I can talk about something other than school.
I know how to manage my money, and bought a house before going, and still live a nice life because I was able to put money into a house after all those years of working. Well that, and I was poor before, so I was used to it!
The government is paying me to go to school, and I don't have to go to work!
The professors love me because I am an "adult".
I know how to sit down and get something done, like study for an exam, because I had to do it in my job. Same idea, different task.

I will admit the whole going to school all day and then go home and study some more thing has been hard, but I taught school for many years so I was used to bringing home work. In some ways my younger classmates were ahead of me first semester since they had had some material more recently (it had been a looooong time since I had taken biochem), but now that we are getting into new material I feel I hold my own or better. I also think I will be in a better position to negotiate and choose the right job after graduation, because I have the sense of self that comes with age, and have some life skills already. The hardest thing for me has been the lack of peers, because I have little in common with 22 year olds, and it is hard to meet other adult people (they are adults too, but you know what I mean) when you go to school all day and study all night.
 
I am a nontrad too and I guess my advice would be to allow yourself to try different methods of studying. Try several and see what works the best, and be prepared for it to not be the way you studied in undergrad.

I was a notecard maker in undergrad and it was sufficient to get good grades in my science classes. I tried that first semester but there was just SO MUCH INFO that my stacks of notecards for one midterm for one class were like 300 deep and when I went to review them I was like "What the heck is this? When did we talk about X?" This severely freaked me out and I felt really lost for what to do.

But now, I relisten to the lectures every evening like I'm in class, with my notes out and my highlighter ready. Penn has a service that records them, but you could do it yourself too if your school doesn't have that. For me, hearing the information that second time, being able to pause and write things, allows me to make connections and the information sticks. But I have found that I am an auditory learner, some people are visual or verbal and others are mechanical (writing), but for me this works better than anything else.

Anyways, I just thought I would post that as another possible study tip. Good luck everyone, you're gonna love it. I find that having that gap between schooling allows me to appreciate my education so much more than I ever did in undergrad, hopefully it's the same for you all!😍
 
TractorKid, thanks so much!! Glad to hear that Penn records stuff for us too =), I'll definitely try to start out that way and see how it goes... i was having this convo at work today with one of the doctors who is a recent Penn grad... she said she was drowning first year trying to find her study method, but after she found it she started getting all A's again. I already know my undergrad methods won't work here (I was a big notecard person too, and I went to every test knowing everything that could possibly be on it, so I always got A's.... but I was with my husband through med school and saw how much info you go through, so I know there's no way to do that... he was tested on a lot of things he only had time to read once...).

Caninepro, you sound exactly like me. When it was calc, A&P, or physics in undergrad I could sit for hours on end studying because I loved it. When it was stats or Ochem I fell asleep, or took tons of breaks and paced a lot...

Sumstorm, I have a lot in common with you too. Pacing is my MO... I can't have a phone conversation in a confined area or on a chorded phone, I have to walk the apartment constantly (and without realizing I'm doing it at first...). I never sit like a lady 😛, I'm always crossing my legs or tucking them under or kneeling/perching somehow (two feet on the floor while driving? impossible...), and in undergrad I made those notecards and then paced my heart out with them... Also, I was a history major and would get writers block on big papers sometimes, then wake up in the middle of the night and start typing... I had that happen with the mathematical classes a lot too, realizing a mistake in my sleep and working the problem out in my head in bed, then getting up to write it down... It also takes me FOREVER to fall asleep, at least an hour every night, because my brain won't stop jumping from subject to subject...

Just lately I've started having insanely vivid dreams.. mostly nightmares. Last nights dream was kind of sad but not scary, and I remembered it in so much detail this morning that I was able to email a friend the whole "plot" when I woke up... I've always been a vivid dreamer but lately it's been a lot more frequent. And with the increased frequency my perceived ADD has gotten way worse... I'm wondering if they're both symptoms of something or if one is causing the other (sleep deprivation--> inability to focus, or ADD--> ADD while sleeping, translating to crazy dreams...). Probably the former....
 
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