Advice for a Surgery Prelim Intern?

[GonefromTX]

Hey everyone,

I'm an incoming surgery prelim intern in an academic program. A little background on me: I originally applied ortho, didn't match, ended up with prelim surgery in my home program. My stats: US AMG, Step 1/2CK: 250/249, Step 2 CS passed on second attempt, 3rd year clerkship grades 2H/2HP/3P.

I'm currently trying to do well in my prelim year and reapply next year to a general surgery categorical program, as I've found (a little late) that I'm genuinely interested in general surgery now that the ortho boat has sailed.

I was hoping for some guidance/advice from y'all regarding how to strengthen my application for next year, besides getting great LORs and doing well on rotations. Specifically, is it important to get a Step 3 score by the time of reapplication? How important is a great step 3 score, or is it not important at all once its above a passing score? Or is it more important spend more time and to do well on the ABSITE?

Also, would you recommend applying to radiology as backup? I truly have a passion for surgery but would also like to be realistic about my expectations as a reapplicant and would be content in a radiology position too. Or should I just apply broadly to 100+ general surgery programs next year? I would be more than happy ending up in any gen surg program in the country.

Thanks in advance!

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[ThoracicGuy]

Hey everyone,

I'm an incoming surgery prelim intern in an academic program. A little background on me: I originally applied ortho, didn't match, ended up with prelim surgery in my home program. My stats: US AMG, Step 1/2CK: 250/249, Step 2 CS passed on second attempt, 3rd year clerkship grades 2H/2HP/3P.

I'm currently trying to do well in my prelim year and reapply next year to a general surgery categorical program, as I've found (a little late) that I'm genuinely interested in general surgery now that the ortho boat has sailed.

I was hoping for some guidance/advice from y'all regarding how to strengthen my application for next year, besides getting great LORs and doing well on rotations. Specifically, is it important to get a Step 3 score by the time of reapplication? How important is a great step 3 score, or is it not important at all once its above a passing score? Or is it more important spend more time and to do well on the ABSITE?

Also, would you recommend applying to radiology as backup? I truly have a passion for surgery but would also like to be realistic about my expectations as a reapplicant and would be content in a radiology position too. Or should I just apply broadly to 100+ general surgery programs next year? I would be more than happy ending up in any gen surg program in the country.

Thanks in advance!

Given your Step 1/2CK scores, I don't think a Step 3 score will really change anything for you. The most important stuff for you is to get good LOR and do well on the ABSITE. The ABSITE won't really come in to play as much if you reapply through the match since you'll take it in January and rank lists are due in February, but programs will likely want to see it. If you are looking for a PGY2 spot somewhere, it will be really important. A bunch of those spots don't really start opening up until probably Feb-March.

Your best bet is trying to continue on through your home program that you're doing your prelim year.

Given your scores, I don't think you'd probably need to apply to radiology as a backup, even with a Step 2CS fail.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Excellent advice above from @ThoracicGuy, just a question about your timeline.

You first note that you are an incoming intern but then you know you’re “currently” trying to do well in your prelim year.

Have you started already?

 

[GonefromTX]

Excellent advice above from @ThoracicGuy, just a question about your timeline.

You first note that you are an incoming intern but then you know you’re “currently” trying to do well in your prelim year.

Have you started already?

No, I'll be starting this July. Sorry I meant I will be trying to do well in prelim year.

 

[GonefromTX]

Given your Step 1/2CK scores, I don't think a Step 3 score will really change anything for you. The most important stuff for you is to get good LOR and do well on the ABSITE. The ABSITE won't really come in to play as much if you reapply through the match since you'll take it in January and rank lists are due in February, but programs will likely want to see it. If you are looking for a PGY2 spot somewhere, it will be really important. A bunch of those spots don't really start opening up until probably Feb-March.

Your best bet is trying to continue on through your home program that you're doing your prelim year.

Given your scores, I don't think you'd probably need to apply to radiology as a backup, even with a Step 2CS fail.

Thank you for your advice! One more quick question, if my home program doesn't end up taking me, do you think I'll have a decent chance elsewhere? In other words, do you think I'll be able to get a good number of interviews if I applied broadly? Reason I'm asking is, I'm a little worried about not applying to a backup specialty if all my chances of matching next year is with my home program.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thank you for your advice! One more quick question, if my home program doesn't end up taking me, do you think I'll have a decent chance elsewhere? In other words, do you think I'll be able to get a good number of interviews if I applied broadly? Reason I'm asking is, I'm a little worried about not applying to a backup specialty if all my chances of matching next year is with my home program.

Ortho candidates that don't match ortho usually have a better chance at securing a PGY2 spot somewhere compared to those that didn't match general surgery to begin with. Networking is important too. Your faculty/PD/Chair will all be influential in finding you a PGY2 spot. You will want to impress them. They will be the ones making calls to help you find a spot. Some places do have prelim PGY2 residents as well, which would allow you to try for a PGY3 categorical spot. This can sometimes be easier as there are many programs with protected lab time that allows you to slip into a spot.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

Assuming you do well during your prelim year, and your program has a history of placing prelims in categorical positions, I'd say your chances should be reasonable if you apply broadly. I'd start talking to the PD early about the process, including what might be available in the event you don't match into GS. Would they be willing to offer a prelim PGY2 spot? If that's a fall back option and you're truly interested in GS, I wouldn't spend the time/money applying to a backup

 

[Dr.Mo]

Given your Step 1/2CK scores, I don't think a Step 3 score will really change anything for you. The most important stuff for you is to get good LOR and do well on the ABSITE. The ABSITE won't really come in to play as much if you reapply through the match since you'll take it in January and rank lists are due in February, but programs will likely want to see it. If you are looking for a PGY2 spot somewhere, it will be really important. A bunch of those spots don't really start opening up until probably Feb-March.

Your best bet is trying to continue on through your home program that you're doing your prelim year.

Given your scores, I don't think you'd probably need to apply to radiology as a backup, even with a Step 2CS fail.

Hi , can you shed some light about his USMLE scores I have the same scores, are they good for GS match?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Hi , can you shed some light about his USMLE scores I have the same scores, are they good for GS match?

Scores of 250/249 will not be a hindrance with general surgery matching. For a USMD graduate, Step 3 will do nothing to help with the match. The only group where it might help is the IMG/FMG group or if you have had multiple failures on steps already. But then people with multiple failures on the steps aren't really going to be general surgery candidates.

 

[Dr.Mo]

Scores of 250/249 will not be a hindrance with general surgery matching. For a USMD graduate, Step 3 will do nothing to help with the match. The only group where it might help is the IMG/FMG group or if you have had multiple failures on steps already. But then people with multiple failures on the steps aren't really going to be general surgery candidates.

Thanks for reply, can u help me decide between NYU or Univ of Alabama for surgery research that will help later in the match, US IMG for GS?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Thanks for reply, can u help me decide between NYU or Univ of Alabama for surgery research that will help later in the match, US IMG for GS?

I would go with whichever has the most productive lab.

 

[Dr.Mo]

I would go with whichever has the most productive lab.

Both guaranteed 5-6 publications , but the Q is does the rank and name of university differ in match application?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Both guaranteed 5-6 publications , but the Q is does the rank and name of university differ in match application?

Probably would not matter much. Does either place have a history of matching IMG applicants? If so, pick that one.

 

[Dr.Mo]

Hey thank you for reply,
I also was thinking of Cleavland clinic but general surgery research , does it help for ortho match later since CC is known for taking IMG at a higher % than NYU , but it’s GS reasrach and I’m applying for ortho??

 

[thedrjojo]

The step2cs fail is a red flag. Book smarts but doesn't know how to evaluate a patient. Only way to beat that is good evaluations during prelim.

Find a categorical resident in your program that was a preliminary, ask them what they did to shine, and try to emulate them as best you can.

 

[thedrjojo]

Both guaranteed 5-6 publications , but the Q is does the rank and name of university differ in match application?

Be wary of 'guaranteed pubs', since that is not something that anyone can actually guarantee. also, what authorship is being promised, cause 5-6 pubs as 4th-6th author isn't really helpful.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Be the best intern of your class. Give nobody a way to criticize you. Do well on ABSITE. I would also apply through the match honestly. Prelim PGY-2 years can also be dead ends except now you've wasted 2 years of your life.

Radiology --> IR is a decent back-up if you want it. Would consider 1 year of Gen Surg only application - if you don't match you can hopefully find a prelim PGY-2 somewhere and then apply radiology following year.