Advice for an Engineer?

[Moosedriver]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I'm coming close to graduation in may with a 3.9 in aerospace engineering. I've known for a while engineering wasn't going to be for me especially after my work experience. I currently work for a police dept in a STEM position and although law enforcement seems great for public service, I've been more driven towards medicine as a way to give back. The USAF HSPS is something I have eyed for a while as a chance to serve my country, but that and all the motivation I have for medicine is a conversation for another day.

For those who didn't start in bio or any of the related fields, especially those who were engineers first, what kind of advice would you give to another engineer looking at this field. How was the transition from engineering material to a side of STEM we never really touch? How did you get used to memorization? And how did you realize this was the right path?

I'm living at home and I can take any chem, bio, ochem, etc. classes I need at my local community college over the summer and next year as well as get clinical experience before diving into the MCAT if I truly am going to take this career path.

 

[Goro]

Read this:
Med School Rx: Getting In, Getting Through, and Getting On with Doctoring Original Edition by Walter Hartwig

ISBN-13: 978-1607140627

ISBN-10: 1607140624

 

[Gilakend]

Some schools don't take CC credits for pre-reqs just so you know.

 

[Moosedriver]

Some schools don't take CC credits for pre-reqs just so you know.

Will it be listed on the website that they don't take CC credit or is it just they heavily prefer uni credit over CC?

 

[Robin-jay]

Will it be listed on the website that they don't take CC credit or is it just they heavily prefer uni credit over CC?

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't rely solely on that. It would be safer to just take them at a 4 year university.

If you absolutely can't, them you're going to have to E-mail many ADCOMs and start doing your HW,

 

[Gilakend]

Will it be listed on the website that they don't take CC credit or is it just they heavily prefer uni credit over CC?

I think MSAR might list whether schools 100% require or just recommend them. But I can't remember for sure.

I'm sure many schools would list it on their website as well.

 

[gyngyn]

MSAR will indicate if a particular school accepts CC credits.

 

[CyngusX-1]

I am an engineering student as well, although I knew I wanted to do medicine going into school. I never had to get used to memorizing things, in fact, all of my professors, especially the engineering ones, drove us away from doing that. Subjects like biology, although they do have some parts that require some memorization, require critical thinking like engineering subjects do. For instance, the cardiovascular/pulmonary system uses a lot of physics (fluid flow). The musculo-skeletal system is very statics and dynamics heavy when you look into it in depth. Even things like organic chemistry can be grasped onto much better if you understand why reactants react the way they do rather than memorizing the reactants and the products by themselves. I ultimately utilized the critical thinking aspects engineering professors instilled into us rather than using memorization. I also learned that subjects like biology are not "pure," they require the use of other science subjects, like physics and chemistry. So your never really moving from one STEM side to another, your just using subjects slightly differently. I knew this was the right path because of the application of the material. I like using my mind and I like helping others.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Don’t take them at a community college. I took 3 pre reqs at a community college before I became pre med for science and elective credit. They were so easy. I wasn’t even into science all that much at the time but still made A’s in all of them. Later after taking classes at uni I became a tutor and landed a job at the community college. Students would routinely get worse grades at uni after transferring. Some students barely studied or did homework and still made A’s and B’s. Not only do some schools not take CC credit but others won’t give them as much weight as good performance at a uni and rightfully so. Either way you’re at a disadvantage. Give yourself the best application possible.

 

[atomi]

I'm coming close to graduation in may with a 3.9 in aerospace engineering. I've known for a while engineering wasn't going to be for me especially after my work experience. I currently work for a police dept in a STEM position and although law enforcement seems great for public service, I've been more driven towards medicine as a way to give back. The USAF HSPS is something I have eyed for a while as a chance to serve my country, but that and all the motivation I have for medicine is a conversation for another day.

For those who didn't start in bio or any of the related fields, especially those who were engineers first, what kind of advice would you give to another engineer looking at this field. How was the transition from engineering material to a side of STEM we never really touch? How did you get used to memorization? And how did you realize this was the right path?

I'm living at home and I can take any chem, bio, ochem, etc. classes I need at my local community college over the summer and next year as well as get clinical experience before diving into the MCAT if I truly am going to take this career path.

Regarding going into medicine to “give back” this is absolutely the wrong way to choose a career. You should choose a careeer for YOU. Doing whatever you love and are best at. At the end of the day medicine is just a job. You are providing a service that someone is willing to pay for.

Later in life, after decades of hard work and success when you’ve won the game and no longer need to put yourself first, you can then give back in the form of your time and money.

Regarding military, don’t do it. It’s a bad deal and a fools bargain.

Regarding the learning transistion, it will depend on your memory. I have a horrific memory so while I did well in engineering because of my processor, I did worse in medicine because I can’t remember my computer passwords.

Medicine has an overall poor outlook. Financially, you may be better off doing engineering unless you go into a surgical subspecialty, and even that’s uncertain. Also be aware you’re signing up for an extra decade of school and you’ll start your adult life in you mid 30s instead of mid 20s now. I’m just now finishing and I started all this when GWB was still president. I could have been working as an engineer making 100k+/yr that whole time with 40 hr weeks and benefits.

 

[atomi]

Don’t take them at a community college. I took 3 pre reqs at a community college before I became pre med for science and elective credit. They were so easy. I wasn’t even into science all that much at the time but still made A’s in all of them. Later after taking classes at uni I became a tutor and landed a job at the community college. Students would routinely get worse grades at uni after transferring. Some students barely studied or did homework and still made A’s and B’s. Not only do some schools not take CC credit but others won’t give them as much weight as good performance at a uni and rightfully so. Either way you’re at a disadvantage. Give yourself the best application possible.

N=1 but I did mine at a CC while working and went to a top 20 MD school.

A 3.9 in engineering and a good MCAT score removes any reasonable doubt about ability to handle the rigor.

 

[Goro]

N=1 but I did mine at a CC while working and went to a top 20 MD school.

A 3.9 in engineering and a good MCAT score removes any reasonable doubt about ability to handle the rigor.

100% agree with my learned colleague

 

[Moosedriver]

N=1 but I did mine at a CC while working and went to a top 20 MD school.

A 3.9 in engineering and a good MCAT score removes any reasonable doubt about ability to handle the rigor.

Did you take your prereqs after getting a bachelor's? If so, what else did manage to do while working (ie volunteer experience etc.)?

Regarding going into medicine to “give back” this is absolutely the wrong way to choose a career. You should choose a careeer for YOU. Doing whatever you love and are best at. At the end of the day medicine is just a job. You are providing a service that someone is willing to pay for.

Later in life, after decades of hard work and success when you’ve won the game and no longer need to put yourself first, you can then give back in the form of your time and money.

Regarding military, don’t do it. It’s a bad deal and a fools bargain.

Regarding the learning transistion, it will depend on your memory. I have a horrific memory so while I did well in engineering because of my processor, I did worse in medicine because I can’t remember my computer passwords.

Medicine has an overall poor outlook. Financially, you may be better off doing engineering unless you go into a surgical subspecialty, and even that’s uncertain. Also be aware you’re signing up for an extra decade of school and you’ll start your adult life in you mid 30s instead of mid 20s now. I’m just now finishing and I started all this when GWB was still president. I could have been working as an engineer making 100k+/yr that whole time with 40 hr weeks and benefits.

When you say poor outlook, do you mean from a long-term financial standpoint or that it's getting harder to find a residency/job after obtaining an MD? And even though you were bad with passwords, how'd you manage to learn how to brute memorize everything?

To everyone else, financially I don't want to risk debt on the pre-reqs so taking them at a 4-year isn't really something I want to do. My current uni charges 15k a year and I would need a minimum of one-year to get all my pre-reqs in. Versus 2.5k for summer and one year of classes at my local CC.

 

[atomi]

Did you take your prereqs after getting a bachelor's? If so, what else did manage to do while working (ie volunteer experience etc.)?



When you say poor outlook, do you mean from a long-term financial standpoint or that it's getting harder to find a residency/job after obtaining an MD? And even though you were bad with passwords, how'd you manage to learn how to brute memorize everything?

To everyone else, financially I don't want to risk debt on the pre-reqs so taking them at a 4-year isn't really something I want to do. My current uni charges 15k a year and I would need a minimum of one-year to get all my pre-reqs in. Versus 2.5k for summer and one year of classes at my local CC.

Yes I did them 2 years after I finished my bs. I only needed bio but did chem again as well to stay current for mcat. I did ochem the summer prior at a 4 year. Physics was decent and fresh enough from my degree.

The poor outlook comment is multifaceted and I can’t type out an adequate response on a smartphone. It may still be s good choice for you, but it’s not as much of a home run as it used to be. There are some people going forward for whom Med school is simply a bad bargain. You need to do a lot of research and go in eyes wide open understanding worst case and best case scenarios for employment in 10-20 years.

I got by in Med school by putting the sheer hours in. I know I had colleagues that would put half the hours in and retain twice as much for four times as long. Regardless it was enough to keep me middle of the class and get me where I wanted to go (barely)

 

[Moosedriver]

Yes I did them 2 years after I finished my bs. I only needed bio but did chem again as well to stay current for mcat. I did ochem the summer prior at a 4 year. Physics was decent and fresh enough from my degree.

The poor outlook comment is multifaceted and I can’t type out an adequate response on a smartphone. It may still be s good choice for you, but it’s not as much of a home run as it used to be. There are some people going forward for whom Med school is simply a bad bargain. You need to do a lot of research and go in eyes wide open understanding worst case and best case scenarios for employment in 10-20 years.

I got by in Med school by putting the sheer hours in. I know I had colleagues that would put half the hours in and retain twice as much for four times as long. Regardless it was enough to keep me middle of the class and get me where I wanted to go (barely)

What about the healthcare experience? How much did you get in before trying your hand at the apps? And how long did you dedicate to taking classes and getting experience before applying?

 

[pwk4d]

A little late to the game but just my experience:

I have a BS in mechanical engineering and an MS in aerospace engineering and have worked for ~5.5 years for a large aerospace company. I knew engineering wasn't quite for me around three years in and made the decision to pursue medical school in August of 2017. I was lucky enough to have a very affordable 4-year institution close to me that I took my pre-requisite classes at. I used MSAR to identify what schools would take AP credit because I didn't want to retake introductory chemistry. For my DIY post-bac, I took O-Chem 1&2 + lab, Bio 1&2, and biochemistry. I also took a sociology, psychology, bioethics, and genetics course though those aren't always required.

From an engineering perspective, the organic chemistry and biochemistry weren't too difficult. I found you just have to learn a few underlying principles and then you are able to understand most of the material. Biology too wasn't terrible except for the ecology/biodiversity part. That is just memorization. Same with psych/soc. It's a little different just memorizing things versus applying information but you will find a way that works for you. Spaced interval learning is good for this - try Anki flashcards or something like that. You'll have to figure out something one way or another before you get to medical school.

Since I'm a little bit older, I didn't want to take too long to build my application so I took the MCAT in April of last year to apply in this current cycle. I got clinical volunteering by picking up a weekly shift at the local hospital and another as a hospice patient companion, also a weekly visit. This got me to around 100 hours of clinical experience before submitting my application. I also had around another 250-350 hours of non-clinical volunteering - make sure you have that too. I had 40 hours of shadowing experience with an anesthesiologist and orthopedic surgeon but I didn't realize I should have gotten some with a primary care physician as well. You should shoot for around 50 hours total but not much more than that is necessary.

N=1 but I've been able to get five acceptances so far including four T20 without huge numbers of volunteer hours or significant BCPM work outside minimum prerequisites. Finish your degree strong, get A's in your post-bac, and kill the MCAT and you should be in good shape as long as are able to show some experience in the medical field and commitment to serving others.

 

[Moosedriver]

A little late to the game but just my experience:

I have a BS in mechanical engineering and an MS in aerospace engineering and have worked for ~5.5 years for a large aerospace company. I knew engineering wasn't quite for me around three years in and made the decision to pursue medical school in August of 2017. I was lucky enough to have a very affordable 4-year institution close to me that I took my pre-requisite classes at. I used MSAR to identify what schools would take AP credit because I didn't want to retake introductory chemistry. For my DIY post-bac, I took O-Chem 1&2 + lab, Bio 1&2, and biochemistry. I also took a sociology, psychology, bioethics, and genetics course though those aren't always required.

From an engineering perspective, the organic chemistry and biochemistry weren't too difficult. I found you just have to learn a few underlying principles and then you are able to understand most of the material. Biology too wasn't terrible except for the ecology/biodiversity part. That is just memorization. Same with psych/soc. It's a little different just memorizing things versus applying information but you will find a way that works for you. Spaced interval learning is good for this - try Anki flashcards or something like that. You'll have to figure out something one way or another before you get to medical school.

Since I'm a little bit older, I didn't want to take too long to build my application so I took the MCAT in April of last year to apply in this current cycle. I got clinical volunteering by picking up a weekly shift at the local hospital and another as a hospice patient companion, also a weekly visit. This got me to around 100 hours of clinical experience before submitting my application. I also had around another 250-350 hours of non-clinical volunteering - make sure you have that too. I had 40 hours of shadowing experience with an anesthesiologist and orthopedic surgeon but I didn't realize I should have gotten some with a primary care physician as well. You should shoot for around 50 hours total but not much more than that is necessary.

N=1 but I've been able to get five acceptances so far including four T20 without huge numbers of volunteer hours or significant BCPM work outside minimum prerequisites. Finish your degree strong, get A's in your post-bac, and kill the MCAT and you should be in good shape as long as are able to show some experience in the medical field and commitment to serving others.

You're my hero now. But in all seriousness, how long did it take for you to do all your prereqs. And how did you find shadowing experience. I can easily find volunteer work for HCE and outside volunteer work as well but finding physicians to shadow seems daunting for me as somebody outside of traditional premed. And lastly, any advice for studying for the MCAT?

 

[pwk4d]

I took about a year and a half to do my prereqs. First fall was Orgo 1, SOC, and actually a critical thinking class too. There was a winter intersession when I took bioethics. Spring was Orgo 2, Biochem, and Bio2 with lab. Then I took the MCAT. I took genetics and psych over the summer and then finished with Orgo lab and Bio 1 with lab this last fall. Wasn't always easy but you can always find a way to make time for your priorities. For shadowing, I had a friend in the hospital system who connected me with the orthopedic surgeon. For the anesthesiologist, I just cold-called the department and explained I was an aspiring medical student and was hoping I could shadow someone.

 

[pwk4d]

Sorry, forgot to answer the last part of your post. Because I was pretty unfamiliar with a lot of bio/biochem stuff going in, I did get the Kap lan self-paced course with the additional biochem and psych packages. Obviously can't compare how I would've done without them but I felt the class did a good job of providing content review and test taking strategy. I also used Khan Academy videos (great for psych/SOC imo) and used Coursera and EdX courses as well. Taking biochem and Organic 2 while studying for the MCAT really reinforced that material as well.

 

[Moosedriver]

Sorry, forgot to answer the last part of your post. Because I was pretty unfamiliar with a lot of bio/biochem stuff going in, I did get the Kap lan self-paced course with the additional biochem and psych packages. Obviously can't compare how I would've done without them but I felt the class did a good job of providing content review and test taking strategy. I also used Khan Academy videos (great for psych/SOC imo) and used Coursera and EdX courses as well. Taking biochem and Organic 2 while studying for the MCAT really reinforced that material as well.

Were you working full-time while taking these classes?

 

[pwk4d]

Yeah. Didn't have much (read: any) free time but it was manageable with a good study schedule. I was lifting weights 5x a week and cut it to three, replaced two of those days with some cardio and would watch Khan Academy videos during. You find ways to make time.

 

[Moosedriver]

Yeah. Didn't have much (read: any) free time but it was manageable with a good study schedule. I was lifting weights 5x a week and cut it to three, replaced two of those days with some cardio and would watch Khan Academy videos during. You find ways to make time.

Gotcha. I plan on leaving my current position and doing classes over the summer and through the next two semesters. I'd do chem I and bio I over the summer and then fit in chem II, orgo I+II, and psych/soc and possibly the other recommended courses over two semesters. I might need to take orgo II during next year summers session which ends in July, and take the MCAT around this time +- a few months. Without a job, do you think it can be done in one year (kind of less) instead of the time you took?

 

[pwk4d]

What's your timeline for applying? Some people say you don't need Orgo 2, and many schools don't require it now with biochem as a substitute, but I found my CP section was heavy with Orgo 2 material so you may want to take your MCAT after completing it. Take biochemistry after Orgo 1 for sure. See what your bio classes cover material-wise. At my institution, Bio 1 was ecology and pretty worthless for the MCAT. Bio 2 was pretty basic and largely covered by biochem. YMMV but you could probably just fit those in wherever it fits your schedule. Psych/Soc take whenever you want - you can largely self-teach the material for the MCAT. You will definitely want to learn physiology and some embryology somehow, whether through a formal course or online resources.

Is it doable in a year if you go full time? Sure. Scheduling conflicts may be more of your issue between lectures and labs. It took me three semesters and a summer going 9/11/6/5 for credit hours. You could reorganize that into a 16 and a 15 hour semester. Is that the most optimal track for you? Idk. You have to decide that for yourself. Keep in mind that you will want to be able to submit your application early in the cycle to give yourself the best opportunity for interview invitations. It may behoove you to spread out your coursework a little more and pick up a position in a research lab or a part-time job in the medical field to really flesh out your resume.

 

[Moosedriver]

What's your timeline for applying? Some people say you don't need Orgo 2, and many schools don't require it now with biochem as a substitute, but I found my CP section was heavy with Orgo 2 material so you may want to take your MCAT after completing it. Take biochemistry after Orgo 1 for sure. See what your bio classes cover material-wise. At my institution, Bio 1 was ecology and pretty worthless for the MCAT. Bio 2 was pretty basic and largely covered by biochem. YMMV but you could probably just fit those in wherever it fits your schedule. Psych/Soc take whenever you want - you can largely self-teach the material for the MCAT. You will definitely want to learn physiology and some embryology somehow, whether through a formal course or online resources.

Is it doable in a year if you go full time? Sure. Scheduling conflicts may be more of your issue between lectures and labs. It took me three semesters and a summer going 9/11/6/5 for credit hours. You could reorganize that into a 16 and a 15 hour semester. Is that the most optimal track for you? Idk. You have to decide that for yourself. Keep in mind that you will want to be able to submit your application early in the cycle to give yourself the best opportunity for interview invitations. It may behoove you to spread out your coursework a little more and pick up a position in a research lab or a part-time job in the medical field to really flesh out your resume.

I'd enroll in summer session this may and then take two semesters and possibly one extra summer session that ends next July for orgo II. MCAT sometime next year and apps out next June/July/August (2020). I'm looking into part time med jobs and volunteer stuff right now.

 

[pwk4d]

That's an aggressive plan and in general, I'd advise against it. Take your time - med schools aren't going anywhere and you really want to put your best foot forward. You pay by the credit hour, right? Spread the classes a little bit and wrap up next December then give yourself a dedicated 3-4 months to study for the MCAT in April/May 2021 and have your application ready to go June 1. Just my two cents but you know your own abilities best.

 

[Moosedriver]

That's an aggressive plan and in general, I'd advise against it. Take your time - med schools aren't going anywhere and you really want to put your best foot forward. You pay by the credit hour, right? Spread the classes a little bit and wrap up next December then give yourself a dedicated 3-4 months to study for the MCAT in April/May 2021 and have your application ready to go June 1. Just my two cents but you know your own abilities best.

Well I'd basically be a full time student without commitments so I figured it'd be doable to go at a normal unit pace. It's at most three classes a semester. Do you think that is indeed too much?

 

[pwk4d]

Not so much the course load as the timeline of it. You want to make sure you can devote sufficient time to your MCAT prep because that'll be the biggest determinant of your success. Also, you won't have "no commitments" because you'll need to pick up some volunteer/clinical activity. Just things to keep in mind. I did my MCAT while still completing coursework and it wasn't the easiest thing in the world. But again, you know your abilities and just understand that you'll probably have to self-teach somewhat to be prepared in time. I really would advise being complete with your applications no later than July.

 

[Moosedriver]

Not so much the course load as the timeline of it. You want to make sure you can devote sufficient time to your MCAT prep because that'll be the biggest determinant of your success. Also, you won't have "no commitments" because you'll need to pick up some volunteer/clinical activity. Just things to keep in mind. I did my MCAT while still completing coursework and it wasn't the easiest thing in the world. But again, you know your abilities and just understand that you'll probably have to self-teach somewhat to be prepared in time. I really would advise being complete with your applications no later than July.

Do you mind me asking what your MCAT was? I was hoping to review MCAT material as I took classes and continue to review little by little from the beginning of classes up to a few months before and then studying hard for it.

 

[pwk4d]

That's fine but I still think you'll want to take the MCAT in April or May to be complete by July. And I wouldn't take it before doing Orgo 2. I did well on the MCAT but would prefer not to talk about it to much here. You can pm me for more details.

 

[atomi]

What about the healthcare experience? How much did you get in before trying your hand at the apps? And how long did you dedicate to taking classes and getting experience before applying?

A year of volunteering in the ED on the weekends. That was basically it.

Did all of my prerequisites in 12 months and applied immediately afterwards.