advice for applying to BS/MD programs

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Hi,

I'm a senior in high applying to some BS/MD programs. I am interested in the UMDNJ program through TCNJ, Rutgers, etc, Penn State/Jefferson, and Univ of Rochester among many others. Can you provide any advice on how I should go about my interviews and application procedure. Thanks.

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Here's a link you might find helpful.... it has a pretty comprehensive list of all the programs out there along with some resources for combined programs....

http://www.medicalhelpnet.com/content/view/28/46/

I really don't have any advice for those specific programs. You want to have the big things covered.... excellent class rank with as demanding a curriculum as you can take (AP/IB/Dual enrollment etc.), high SAT I/II scores, lots of EC's and volunteer work. Basically anything that would help your application to a competitive college in general with the twist of an interest in medicine thrown in (volunteering at a hospital, getting involved with some biomedical research etc.)
 
As I understand it, you are required to go to the med school associated w/ the undergrad college. Is this right? You may finish undergrad and want to go somewhere else. Something to think about at least.
 
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I'm in such a program at USC. It's BA/MD and is not binding to Keck school of medicine. It's literally the best decision I made in my life.

Some advice: don't go into BS programs (i.e. schools that choose your major for you/make you finish college in 3 years/make you major in only one thing). College only happens once--enjoy your years here and make sure you don't go into a school where you won't be happy. Remember to major in something cool and fun that you enjoy...if engineering is your bag of tea, go for it, but i did an english major because the program i'm in really encourages this kind of interdisciplinary stuff. I also did interviews for this program...and trust me, we know when you have a personality and passion and when you don't!!!
=) Best of luck. for more info on the USC bac/MD program, go to:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/admission/baccalaureatemd/apply.html
 
I believe if you can get a copy of the same book regular applicants use, The MSAR (Medical School Admissions Requirements) book, they have all the info for 6 and 7 year programs as well.

I recall the first half being 6/7 year info, and the second half being the regular admissions info.
 
I was part of a 7-year program and left it to pursue different medical schools, make sure make the right decision and that you willl like the medical school you will matriculate into. It is always nice to have the safety net of an assured acceptance though.
 
badlydrawnvik said:
I was part of a 7-year program and left it to pursue different medical schools, make sure make the right decision and that you willl like the medical school you will matriculate into. It is always nice to have the safety net of an assured acceptance though.

Im the same. I was in a program, I applied out and still got to keep my spot. I worked hard at first, then stopped caring and submitted my AMCAS in mid october (which is probably why I didnt get in anywhere else). Currently, Im an M1 at the school the program fed into (CMS). Its a good deal, go for it.
 
badlydrawnvik said:
I was part of a 7-year program and left it to pursue different medical schools, make sure make the right decision and that you willl like the medical school you will matriculate into. It is always nice to have the safety net of an assured acceptance though.

I was in a 6 year bs/md and it was not good. I honestly would not recommend it unless you come from a very good high school and have a lot of AP classes. And definitely try to go to a bs or ba/md program where the undergrad is in a good, PRIVATE university. They say assured acceptance, but you have to meet cutoff guidelines. Any 6 year program is a 7 year for the majority of students. My friends and I came to college a week after we graduated from high school and just basically ran around like chickens with our heads cut off for two straight years. It was stressful beyond belief--you only have time to memorize exactly what you must know for the next exam-short term memorization--cram it in and spit it out then it's on to the next. It makes me sick to think about it--the only good thing was the tight friendships we formed--we practically spent every waking psycho moment together. Some made it to med school, but many didn't. Our education was lacking. I would say go spend four years in a nice, small, private school--you will get a good solid education and things work out nicely without the "assured acceptance."
 
Yeah these programs are def worth it (the 8 years one anyhow), especially the non-binding one. My entire app process in the end cost me a $100 and I get to go to a school that I like. So it is a sweet deal in the end. Good luck to you and as for preparing, I would suggest that you read up on interview questions (ie... books and of course the interviews questions on SDN / fake interviews with friends is always great). The process is pretty grueling almost as much as the normal app process. So prepare for it as a normal applicant does.
 
Nikki2002 said:
I was in a 6 year bs/md and it was not good. I honestly would not recommend it unless you come from a very good high school and have a lot of AP classes. And definitely try to go to a bs or ba/md program where the undergrad is in a good, PRIVATE university. They say assured acceptance, but you have to meet cutoff guidelines. Any 6 year program is a 7 year for the majority of students. My friends and I came to college a week after we graduated from high school and just basically ran around like chickens with our heads cut off for two straight years. It was stressful beyond belief--you only have time to memorize exactly what you must know for the next exam-short term memorization--cram it in and spit it out then it's on to the next. It makes me sick to think about it--the only good thing was the tight friendships we formed--we practically spent every waking psycho moment together. Some made it to med school, but many didn't. Our education was lacking. I would say go spend four years in a nice, small, private school--you will get a good solid education and things work out nicely without the "assured acceptance."



I agree with you. I don't think 6 year programs are that good. 7 or 8 year programs are a bit better, but even the 7 years push it sometimes. I guess it depends on the level of maturity of the individual and how well they are able to work under pressure etc.
 
gujuDoc said:
I agree with you. I don't think 6 year programs are that good. 7 or 8 year programs are a bit better, but even the 7 years push it sometimes. I guess it depends on the level of maturity of the individual and how well they are able to work under pressure etc.

It depends on how many classes you can skip with AP credits, how long you can go without sleeping, and how well you "work with others"
 
seeing all these posts basically affirms what i wrote originally---USC is the best BA/MD program out there. it's a great private undergrad, 8 year non-binding program and is extremely relaxed. my peers are amazing...they got wonderful MCAT scores, aewsome GPAs, but aren't stressed about stuff...just going through the app process without too much worry and are extremely happy to have USC (a great school) as a "safety net" (though it's many of our top choices).

Go 'SC! :love:
 
Nikki2002 said:
It depends on how many classes you can skip with AP credits, how long you can go without sleeping, and how well you "work with others"


Yeah I agree with you.

I know at UMiami, most students who get in those programs have like 30+ undergrad credits, whether it is through IB program, AP credits, or a combination of AP and dual enrollment or plain dual enrollment.

This means, they have most of their general education requirements taken care of.
 
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ablumoon said:
seeing all these posts basically affirms what i wrote originally---USC is the best BA/MD program out there. it's a great private undergrad, 8 year non-binding program and is extremely relaxed. my peers are amazing...they got wonderful MCAT scores, aewsome GPAs, but aren't stressed about stuff...just going through the app process without too much worry and are extremely happy to have USC (a great school) as a "safety net" (though it's many of our top choices).

Go 'SC! :love:


Sorry to bust your bubble but the Rice/Baylor program is better!

Students follow a similar application procedure and are allowed to major in anything in which they are interested. In addition, they DO NOT have to take the MCAT and have to only maintain a minimum gpa......all this equals a relative cake walk into a top 15 med school in the country!!!!!!!!!

And if a Rice/Baylor student wants to apply to other med schools the option is open....he/she just has to take the MCAT to apply to those other schools.
Furthermore, Rice's & BCM's tution is much lower than USC's ($28K + $8K for instate or $18K for out of state compared to $35K + $50K)....that tution is outrageous....

And even though I cannot truly hate on USC's med school program (b/c my father went to Keck...before it was called Keck.....my brother went to SC for undergrad and for Marshall exec. MBA....and my sister went there for undergrad......and I grew up going to USC football and basketball games...I still go when I am back in LA...GO trojans - USC: 51 UW: 24), I will say that there are far more opportunities with the Rice/Baylor program, especially since Baylor is located in the largest medical center in the world (and Rice is right across the street....that's right...the Texas Medical Center).

I can go on....smaller classes...generally stress free...very supportive environment

Here is the one negative issue: Rice is D1 athletics but has a sorry as football team....we won baseball champ in 03' though.

So USC's program may be great but the Rice/Baylor program is better!
:D
Check it out!
 
i think that its better to take the MCAT than not to take it--it prepares you for the high-stress environment of taking exams in medical school, so I don't think that a program that doesn't require you to take the MCAT necssarily means its better.. I think it actually means you may be at a slight disadvantage.

USC's requirements= 9,9,9 on each section (i.e. NOT BAD)

Finally, most Bac/MD students at USC come on scholarships, and there is heaps of $$ at USC that is to be taken by incoming freshmen...more than 60% of students here are on scholarships or fin. aid of some sort.

Baylor is a decent school, but with i believe they aren't going to stay on top for much longer becaues they have dissociated with the HoustonMedical Center or something like that...

Meanwhile, at USC you can get some of the best clinical experience in the country at County Hospital. There's also tons of reserach and federal money being poured in and a new hospital will be finished next year. Keck has been consistently climbing in rankings over the past few years and definitely will be in top 25 within the next 10 years. It also, I may add, is ranked in both primary care and research! (not that it matters, US News is irrelevant, really for non-PHD candidadates)

Fight On!!! :love:
 
Can someone give me a brief overview into these BA/MD programs? Namely, when do you apply, what is required to apply, what are some typical high school student stats? Interviews? (asking for a friend's son)
 
I know most everyone here looks down on non-ranked schools but for those who don't:

University of Toledo has a couple of joint programs with Medical University of Ohio. MUO and UT are not the same school (a common misconception) or even on the same campus.

So, you go for your degree at MUO and if you maintain a certain GPA and MCAT you are guaranteed admission to MUO. I think it sounds like a sweet program and there are loads of opportunities for scholarships/grants to get the undergrad paid for at least. You can apply for the program either in high school or after a year or two of undergrad.

The best place for more info would be their website or to call admissions probably.

MEDstart

BS/MD Program
 
I would have to agree with everyone on the board so far.... 6 year programs are simply too short. Once you get to medical school, you'll realize you were cutting out the best part of the deal :) That said, I don't see anything wrong with trying to shorten the entire experience by a year. I was in a situation where I did a 7 year BS/MD (U Florida) and my sis did a 6 year BS/MD program. I probably had a happier undergrad than she did. U Miami (the place where she went) had the foresight to finally get rid of the 6-year option and now require all high school students to do it in 7 years.

There were so many non-science/humanity classes she wanted to explore before going to med school that simply weren't an option for her. I know she regretted not exploring her interest in creative writing more. Once you get to medical school, that's it folks. You will be doing hardcore science work, and then eventually clinical work. If you want to know more about philosophy, religion, music, literature, astronomy yada yada, the only chance you'll have is in college.

That said, I had a happy experience in the 7-year BS/MD program I attended. It gave me plenty of room for electives my junior year (took 9 credits worth each semester) and I had no regrets doing it. In my mind, the fact that I was able to take that many electives that year meant that I was ready to move on to the next level.

Bottom line IMO, 6 years is too short. 7 years is just right for those of you who want to save some college $$, are exceptionally mature enough to know that this is for you, want to save some headaches applying the regular way and also have enough college credit coming in to allow you to have a normal non-stressed undergraduate experience.
 
Went through a combined program and took 8 years. Am very glad I got the FULL undergrad course just like all the other students in college.

Undergrad was GREAT. Med school, average experience, nothing special (but neither is med school particularly special anywhere else).

Combined programs are only as good as the undergrad college. The only difference in experience is in undergrad. Choose a college you'll be proud and happy to go to, and make sure you get the undergraduate experience you want. There's no point in sacrificing your "fun" years in order to attend a med school that isn't any different from all the other med schools in the country.

When applying, consider emphasizing your outside interests. I told them I wanted to major in creative writing and explained how I felt that was not too different from medicine, and they accepted me almost instantaneously -- even after I sent in my application late after the early deadline had passed. :p
 
medgator said:
I would have to agree with everyone on the board so far.... 6 year programs are simply too short. Once you get to medical school, you'll realize you were cutting out the best part of the deal :) That said, I don't see anything wrong with trying to shorten the entire experience by a year. I was in a situation where I did a 7 year BS/MD (U Florida) and my sis did a 6 year BS/MD program. I probably had a happier undergrad than she did. U Miami (the place where she went) had the foresight to finally get rid of the 6-year option and now require all high school students to do it in 7 years.

There were so many non-science/humanity classes she wanted to explore before going to med school that simply weren't an option for her. I know she regretted not exploring her interest in creative writing more. Once you get to medical school, that's it folks. You will be doing hardcore science work, and then eventually clinical work. If you want to know more about philosophy, religion, music, literature, astronomy yada yada, the only chance you'll have is in college.

That said, I had a happy experience in the 7-year BS/MD program I attended. It gave me plenty of room for electives my junior year (took 9 credits worth each semester) and I had no regrets doing it. In my mind, the fact that I was able to take that many electives that year meant that I was ready to move on to the next level.

Bottom line IMO, 6 years is too short. 7 years is just right for those of you who want to save some college $$, are exceptionally mature enough to know that this is for you, want to save some headaches applying the regular way and also have enough college credit coming in to allow you to have a normal non-stressed undergraduate experience.


Wow, did they really get rid of the 6 year program???????????????/ If so, hallalulyah!!!!!!!!! I never agreed with the idea of 6 year programs.

7 year programs are somewhat ok, because you can knock out your first year of college through dual enrollment in your senior year. I know a few people who came to USF for their first year, while their credits were going towards their last year of highschool.

But even then, I think it depends on the person.
 
gujuDoc said:
Wow, did they really get rid of the 6 year program???????????????/ If so, hallalulyah!!!!!!!!! I never agreed with the idea of 6 year programs.

7 year programs are somewhat ok, because you can knock out your first year of college through dual enrollment in your senior year. I know a few people who came to USF for their first year, while their credits were going towards their last year of highschool.

But even then, I think it depends on the person.

Yes they did... They even threw an MCAT score requirement in. I guess all those slackers getting in forced them to change it around a bit :laugh:

http://www.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/1,1770,2600-1;31843-3,00.html
 
medgator said:
Yes they did... They even threw an MCAT score requirement in. I guess all those slackers getting in forced them to change it around a bit :laugh:

http://www.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/1,1770,2600-1;31843-3,00.html


Wow. Like I said, Hallaleluh. I never agreed with the 6 year program or lack of MCAT thing they had before.

I know a friend who is in 7 year there, and she had to get like a 26 to maintain 7 year. Which is semi decent I guess, since it is above the national avg. But I thought that was because she was not admitted into the program when she first came in to the school.

I like how USF does their 7 year, actually. It sort of weeds out people. They require that you must get a 30 MCAT score on the dot, with either no lower then a 7 or 8 in a given section. I'm not sure whether it is 7 or whether it is 8 for the minimum subsection score.

They also require you maintain 3.7 GPA, and do 40 hours of shadowing and 40 hours of volunteering, and your honors thesis (research component).

This determines who's real serious, and who thought it was going to be an easy road to medical school.
 
gujuDoc said:
Wow. Like I said, Hallaleluh. I never agreed with the 6 year program or lack of MCAT thing they had before.

Miami has always required all of their accelerated students to take the MCAT-- they just never cared about the outcome, but now they do. My guess is that all these people who were guaranteed a spot didn't study a wink for the test, and probably ended up bringing UM's average down (although I dont know if they included their MCAT scores in the medical class average they would tell interested parties). I think most combined programs have a score requirement in place to continue on to medical school, which I think is completely fair. U Florida doesn't require taking the MCAT for their program, but again you get in after your second year of college coursework.
 
medgator said:
Miami has always required all of their accelerated students to take the MCAT-- they just never cared about the outcome, but now they do. My guess is that all these people who were guaranteed a spot didn't study a wink for the test, and probably ended up bringing UM's average down (although I dont know if they included their MCAT scores in the medical class average they would tell interested parties). I think most combined programs have a score requirement in place to continue on to medical school, which I think is completely fair. U Florida doesn't require taking the MCAT for their program, but again you get in after your second year of college coursework.


Yeah, but for UF, it works because of how infinitely hard it is to get into their program BS/MD or regular MD route in general. They really really really tend to screen people for the best candidates. And their premed program is probably the most rigorous in the state.
 
gujuDoc said:
Yeah, but for UF, it works because of how infinitely hard it is to get into their program BS/MD or regular MD route in general. They really really really tend to screen people for the best candidates. And their premed program is probably the most rigorous in the state.

Yeah... which is why they haven't had to institue an MCAT req. Most of the JH people do pretty well through med school and also secure pretty good residencies. I really think that the programs that take you after a couple years of college have a different calibre of student then those who got in straight from HS (you really have to work your butt off the first two years).
 
AxlxA said:
Can someone give me a brief overview into these BA/MD programs? Namely, when do you apply, what is required to apply, what are some typical high school student stats? Interviews? (asking for a friend's son)

As far as I know there are 32 Early Assuarance programs in existence. You can find the complete list here: http://services.aamc.org/currdir/section3/degree2.cfm?data=yes&program=bsmd

Here is a similar thread on this very subject
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=218747
 
ablumoon said:
i think that its better to take the MCAT than not to take it--it prepares you for the high-stress environment of taking exams in medical school, so I don't think that a program that doesn't require you to take the MCAT necssarily means its better.. I think it actually means you may be at a slight disadvantage.

USC's requirements= 9,9,9 on each section (i.e. NOT BAD)

Finally, most Bac/MD students at USC come on scholarships, and there is heaps of $$ at USC that is to be taken by incoming freshmen...more than 60% of students here are on scholarships or fin. aid of some sort.

Baylor is a decent school, but with i believe they aren't going to stay on top for much longer becaues they have dissociated with the HoustonMedical Center or something like that...

Meanwhile, at USC you can get some of the best clinical experience in the country at County Hospital. There's also tons of reserach and federal money being poured in and a new hospital will be finished next year. Keck has been consistently climbing in rankings over the past few years and definitely will be in top 25 within the next 10 years. It also, I may add, is ranked in both primary care and research! (not that it matters, US News is irrelevant, really for non-PHD candidadates)

Fight On!!! :love:

It is still more expensive to go to SC even after all the federal aid and scholarships!

And about not having to take the MCAT - There is no way that is a disadvantage....or should I say it has not been proven to be an advantage for Rice/Baylor students....Those same kids are excelling at Baylor with no problem.
 
Nikki2002 said:
I would say go spend four years in a nice, small, private school--you will get a good solid education and things work out nicely without the "assured acceptance."
Because the UC schools, Umich, Purdue, etc.. don't have good undergrad programs, huh?

[edit] Reading through these posts, these Bac/MD programs really don't seem too hot, aside from the USC one... but I personally wouldn't want to go there for medical school. This makes me glad with my choice...
 
_ian said:
Because the UC schools, Umich, Purdue, etc.. don't have good undergrad programs, huh?


Still get good edu at those larger uni's but you are nothin more than a number....and for some that may not be an ideal environment...for others it may be.
 
riceman04 said:
Students follow a similar application procedure and are allowed to major in anything in which they are interested. In addition, they DO NOT have to take the MCAT and have to only maintain a minimum gpa......all this equals a relative cake walk into a top 15 med school in the country!!!!!!!!!
sounds like a bad idea to me. If I were on an adcom, I'd want students that had to try in college. No MCAT, no ECs, no LORs, and <3.5? No thanks!
 
Actually, most BA/MD students do quite well during college, keeping up GPAs well above the low requirements. The reason for the low requirements is for students in the program not to have to stress if they got one or two Bs in college. I mean you see pre-meds nowadays who cry over their hurt GPA and their chances at med school. Plus, they study for hours on end, and may end up not even getting into med school. In programs, you're able to choose a major YOU LIKE and focus on passions/interests instead of tailoring your resume with research, volunteering, and other "necessary" activities needed to impress med schools. No one is stopping you from applying out if you decide you don't want to go to X med school, but I know from anecdotal information that BA/MD programs are a GREAT way to go if you want to keep a measure of sanity and enjoy college while being a pre-med. Granted, I made several generalizations about pre-meds, but I think most people on this forum would agree that the average pre-med works extremely hard, perhaps unnecessarily hard.

Think about it psychologically. If something you wanted basically said that you HAD to do W, X, Y, and Z to get that something, perhaps even things you might not ENJOY doing, would you pursue them? Of course, if you wanted it badly enough. But you probably wouldn't enjoy doing those things. However, if that same something said, do whatever you want during college as long as you keep up X GPA and are law-abiding, wouldn't you do things you LIKED doing? These are things that you probably wouldn't have done because you would have been so focused on those pre-reqs for med school (research, volunteering, grades, MCATs). I'll give you an example of someone I know personally who went through a program:

# Bachelors in physiology with high honors, XXXX XXXXX University.
# Prevention and Economics of Health Policy Summer Program, Harvard University School of Public Health.
# Worked as a biologist for the Cardiovascular Drug Discovery Division of Eli Lily Research Laboratories.
# Served as a graduate research assistant for the XXX Department of Medicine.
# Served as a teaching assistant for clinical skills, medical neuroscience and human physiology courses.
# Served as an intern at the Bureau of East Asian and Pacific Affairs, U.S. Department of State.
# Served as an executive board member for VISIONS Worldwide Inc.
# Served as founding member and president of VISIONS at XXX.
# Served as the national chair of the service committee of the Medical Student and Resident Section of the American Association of Physicians of Indian Origin.
# Served as a student coordinator of the XXX Friendship Clinic.

I came to XXX through the Medical Scholars Program, which offers conditional acceptance into medical school at the time of entry into a course of undergraduate study at XXX XXXXX. I entered this program after high school because I had an established and tested commitment to medicine, and the Medical Scholars program offered me flexibility during my three years of undergraduate study. I was able to spend one summer studying impressionism in Paris and another working with an Office of Economic Policy at the U.S. State Department. The prospect of such flexibility and exploration drew me to the XXX Medical Scholars Program.

There you have it, from the mouth of a person who went through said program. I realize also that this is one person, but hopefully it shows you the benefits/advantages of going through a combined program. Btw, this person matched at Harvard residency after having gotten Junior AOA. ;)
 
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