Advice for DO ophthalmology applicants

[AnonymousEye]

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[Medicinewarrior]

Hi all, I'm one of the (few it seems, on SDN) people who didn't match this year. I wanted to give some advice to osteopathic applicants participating in the MD ophthalmology match. First I'll get my "stats" out of the way:

--Board Scores: Step 1 (91), Step II (99)
--AOA and class rank: no AOA
--Reputation of medical school: DO school
--Research: One year off for research during school, 7 posters/presentation (2 ophtho), 3 first author pubs (one ophtho), guest editor for ophthalmology journal, one award for ophtho poster at national public health conference
--Honors in clerkships: All except psych and OB/GYN. Honors in all 4 elective ophthal clerkships.
--# and where you did away rotations: 4 aways (Wilmer, Bascom, Pitt, LIJ)
--# of programs you applied to: 50
--Where invited for interviews: 4 interviews (2 where I did aways)
--Where matched: Did not match
--Anything that helped your app: Dual degree (MPH), LOR from Bascom Palmer and Wilmer faculty, phone calls from home institution to PDs. Residents at away rotations going to bat for me with the PD.

The biggest thing to realize is that everyone applying has amazing stats. They all have huge board scores, have done research, have great letters, etc. Having a DO behind your name, sadly, will put you at a major disadvantage, so you need you. In fact, a PD told me that half of the programs will throw you app aside just seeing you're from a DO school, regardless of the rest. In the end my application was decent, but there are 2 deficiencies - the non-99 step I and being a DO.

If you are considering allopathic ophtho, everything has to be in order. You need to kill step I and you need some thing to set you apart - i.e. lots of research, having the right person make calls for you, etc.

Unfortunately, because many DO schools don't have their own ophtho departments, making conncetions is tough and you're often on your own. When I think about it in the end, I don't see why PDs would routinely take DOs, when they have so many qualified allopathic applicants who's schools look much better on paper.

It can be done though; docasaib and doapplicant are two osteopathic applicants who frequent this forum, who match allo ophtho. Maybe they can chime in and share their thoughts at some point.

Anyone with questions can PM me and congrats to all the successfully matched applicants 👍

coming from a fellow DO class of 2009, I appreciate the honest post and hope you figure out what will happen for you next my friend

 

[speyeder]

Although I am not a DO grad, I can echo some of what the original poster said. I've had a chance to review and interview candidates at my program and almost everyone has amazing stats. Seems like almost half of the applicants have 99s on Step I and about 2/3 have 97 and above. In addition almost everyone has some kind of research and good letters, so on the surface there's not much separating one candidate from another . However once they make it to the interview, it's a whole different story. I rank almost exclusively on interpersonal skills and how well I think they'd fit in to our program. Everything else is secondary.

 

[DrMassacre]

^it seems like when everyone has amazing stats/research/LOR, the reputation of the school plays a large role.

 

[crazyeye]

Hi all, I'm one of the (few it seems, on SDN) people who didn't match this year. I wanted to give some advice to osteopathic applicants participating in the MD ophthalmology match. First I'll get my "stats" out of the way:

--Board Scores: Step 1 (91), Step II (99)
--AOA and class rank: no AOA
--Reputation of medical school: DO school
--Research: One year off for research during school, 7 posters/presentation (2 ophtho), 3 first author pubs (one ophtho), guest editor for ophthalmology journal, one award for ophtho poster at national public health conference
--Honors in clerkships: All except psych and OB/GYN. Honors in all 4 elective ophthal clerkships.
--# and where you did away rotations: 4 aways (Wilmer, Bascom, Pitt, LIJ)
--# of programs you applied to: 50
--Where invited for interviews: 4 interviews (2 where I did aways)
--Where matched: Did not match
--Anything that helped your app: Dual degree (MPH), LOR from Bascom Palmer and Wilmer faculty, phone calls from home institution to PDs. Residents at away rotations going to bat for me with the PD.

The biggest thing to realize is that everyone applying has amazing stats. They all have huge board scores, have done research, have great letters, etc. Having a DO behind your name, sadly, will put you at a major disadvantage, so you need you. In fact, a PD told me that half of the programs will throw you app aside just seeing you're from a DO school, regardless of the rest. In the end my application was decent, but there are 2 deficiencies - the non-99 step I and being a DO.

If you are considering allopathic ophtho, everything has to be in order. You need to kill step I and you need some thing to set you apart - i.e. lots of research, having the right person make calls for you, etc.

Unfortunately, because many DO schools don't have their own ophtho departments, making conncetions is tough and you're often on your own. When I think about it in the end, I don't see why PDs would routinely take DOs, when they have so many qualified allopathic applicants who's schools look much better on paper.

It can be done though; docasaib and doapplicant are two osteopathic applicants who frequent this forum, who match allo ophtho. Maybe they can chime in and share their thoughts at some point.

Anyone with questions can PM me and congrats to all the successfully matched applicants 👍

Im sorry to see that you didnt match!! Do you have a back-up plan, like apply for another specialty in the regular match or osteopathic Ophtho match?

 

[AnonymousEye]

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[AnonymousEye]

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[fizzle]

There are a lot of politics involved. If a chairman has the choice of a gazzilion qualified MD applicants, its tough to come up with scenarios why a DO would be accepted. Its great to hear when an osteopathic grad does get in though, as it slowly chips away at some of the bias. Good luck all.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. But I don't think it's an issue of bias; aren't MD residencies supposed to be geared towards MDs? Isn't there a separate DO ophthalmology residency? That would have already made it an uphill battle from the beginning. Pardon me if I'm wrong about this; I'm not familiar with DO residencies.

 

[speyeder]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. But I don't think it's an issue of bias; aren't MD residencies supposed to be geared towards MDs? Isn't there a separate DO ophthalmology residency? That would have already made it an uphill battle from the beginning. Pardon me if I'm wrong about this; I'm not familiar with DO residencies.

Agree. MD residencies are geared towards MDs, just like DO residencies are geared towards DOs. Despite the fact that it may be more difficult for a DO to get in to an MD residency, at least they have a chance. There is no chance for an MD to land a DO residency because they are not allowed to apply without an osteopathic degree.

 

[GhostTree]

I am a 3rd year D.O. student interested in Ophthalmology. Were there any DO success stories this year in the match? If so, congratulations, and where did they match? I know its an uphill battle and both allopathic and osteopathic Ophthalmology residencies are competitive. The main reason I am applying to both MD and DO is to maximize my chances of matching the specialty I want to do.

I can't really address the difference between MD/DO Ophthalmology residencies but I can provide a little information about the DO opportunities. There are 11 osteopathic Ophthalmology programs currently listed on the AOA "Opportunities" website; one is definitely closing (Chicago-CCOM), maybe another (Tulsa-OSU).
http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search.cfm.

Most programs only take 1-3 students/year, so there are definitely a limited # of spots available. I have attached a file that lists all of the programs with the current residents. Unfortunately I am aware of no data that show how many DO students applied for each available spot, the AOA doesn't collect that data to my knowledge.

Personally I think there should be an open match and allow MD and DO students to apply to the same programs but unfortunately that won't be happening soon. A question for the MD students/residents: Would you attend a DO residency if you had a chance? If so, why, and if not, why not?

Not trying to start a flame war, just looking for insight. Thanks.

 

[Entgegen]

Were there any DO success stories this year in the match? If so, congratulations, and where did they match?

Hey there, I'm a second year at UNTHSC-TCOM right now, and I know a 4th year who just matched in an MD program in Missouri. I don't know which program though, just the state.

His stats were a 232 step 1, no step 2 (don't know his COMLEX scores), a month of research in the glaucoma lab here with no pubs, and was somewhere between the top 25-50% of his class. He did 2 MD rotations (one where he matched and another in Little Rock) and 2 DO rotations (not sure where), and got 4 MD interviews and 5 DO interviews.

However, there was another 4th year who applied ophtho but didn't match. All I know about him was that he did 2 MD rotations, one at UTMB (where he got a LOR from an MD faculty member there) and another at George Washington, and had a total of 9 MD interviews (not sure if he applied DO though). So that leads me to believe this guy had to look pretty damn good on paper to score 9 MD interviews as a DO.

So what happened with the second? Not sure...I asked the first guy about him, and he said he's a really great and likable guy and couldn't imagine that his interviews went bad. However, he did mention that the second guy had gotten the vibe from UTMB that they weren't interested in taking DOs as residents, and that George Washington was a bit too "top tier" for a DO to have a shot at.

So the advice that the matching guy gave me was that you really have to do a rotation somewhere if you have any hope of matching there, and to do them at places where DOs have a realistic chance of matching at. Otherwise, why would a program choose a DO over an MD, all else being equal? That, and I would think it would be a good idea to apply DO as well. Whatever your feelings are towards DO residencies, "lower-tier" MD residencies, and even parts of the country you'd rather not be in, far as I'm concerned, I'd rather match somewhere with any of those criteria than not match at all.

 

[dnanana]

I am another one of the few that did not match. DO applicant as well. My stats:

Board Scores: Step 1 247(99)
--AOA and class rank: Sigma Sigma Phi(DO version), top 5 in class
--Reputation of medical school: DO school
--Research: Non ophtho during undergraduate
--Honors in clerkships: Honors in all 4 elective ophthal clerkships.
--# and where you did away rotations: 3 aways (UAB, USF, 1 DO)
--# of programs you applied to: 60
--Where invited for interviews: 5 interviews (2 where I did aways)
--Where matched: Did not match
--Anything that helped your app: LOR from well known, most PD's commented on the letter during interview

Applied to all the DO programs, only received one interview.
I am at a loss and not really sure what to do next year, I have heard of other people that did a year of research but it didn't help them match. All the programs I interviewed at did not stress research. USF has taken DOs before and UAB has a DO on faculty, so that's why I rotated there and felt the rotations went very well. But I agree, very important to do aways, would have only had 3 interviews otherwise, not that it made a difference in the end.

 

[AnonymousEye]

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[DOCTORSAIB]

OP and dnanana, I'm sorry to hear that the match did not go in your favor this year. Clearly you guys worked very hard as evidenced by your credentials.

I feel very blessed to have match ophtho. The advantage I had was that I knew from day one of med school that ophtho was my calling. How so? I had worked for over 2 years as an ophthalmic tech at a busy academic ophtho dept before starting med school. I spent all of med school building my application for ophtho. So come 4th year, I had the research lined up (Wills Eye), international volunteer mission to South India through UFS, started the 1st ever ophtho club at PCOM, grades, LORs and prior ophtho work experience (which helped me slam my ophtho rotations).

And even then I applied to both DO and MD ophtho programs -- minimize risk at all costs. Luckily, the DO match is in Feb so I knew that worst case scenario had I not matched in SF match in Jan, I would end up at PCOM for ophtho, which I would have gladly taken as it's a quality program with quality residents.

Guys, if you want ophtho bad enough, I promise you NO ONE can stop you, DO or not. Consider this year a small bump in the road in your journey -- a challenge of sorts. Remain steadfast and focused. You can do it.

Send me a PM if I can be of help. Good luck!

 

[DOapplicant]

Dear AnonymousEye and dnanana,

I am sorry to hear of your match outcomes. Unfortunately, many well-qualified applicants go unmatched each year. Part of this is due to the systematic exclusion of certain applicant types; likely the result of needing to establish a quick screening process for the high number of applicants.

Like DOCTORSAIB, I believe it is possible for DOs to match into an allopathic residency. Personally, I did not decide on ophthalmology until the middle of my third year.

My advise for DOs is the following (preface: I am currently in my pgy1 year):

1) Don't stop at grades. I have spoken with DOs who had better scores than me, but did not match; most only had LORs from local community docs and very limited research. Unlike other fields in medicine, grades/scores are not enough. This is particularly challenging for DOs because Osteopathic medical schools don't well-known academic ophthalmologist who share the same affiliation as you. You will have to go out on your own and develop your own contacts, so you can have the right person advocate on your behalf.

2) Do your homework before doing aways. I attempted to contact each program before applying to determine their perceptions of DOs. Several told me, unabashedly, "we don't take DOs", so I knew where not to focus my efforts. Also, don't assume because a program has a DO on faculty or has take one DO residents in the past, there is no bias. Attitudes can change and special considerations may have been given in the past, which might not necessarily be extended to you. I would look into programs which have a history of taking visiting students and try to read between the lines about how they feel toward DOs. Remember, often residents are selected by a group, rather than a single faculty member. Personally, I matched at a program which I did not do a rotation.

3) Make the best of the opportunities your given. Although, I am generally not in favor of the current culture of over-applying, given your situations I would apply to every program you'd be willing to go to and treat each interview as you only chance of becoming an ophthalmologist.

Best of luck to future applicants.

 

[reez ophtho]

I am a third year DO student who will be applying for ophtho this year. I have been looking at MD programs to find out which ones are more likely to accept DO applicants. I was wondering if someone who has been interviewing this year could share some insight on this topic. Any advice on specific programs would be appreciated.

1. Which MD programs did DO applicants get accepted to this year?

2. Which MD programs did DO applicants interview at this year?

3. Which MD programs have been known in the past to accept DO applicants?

4. Which MD programs will not consider a DO applicant?

Thanks. Any advice would be great!

 

[dnanana]

Thanks DO Applicant, DRSAIB and AnonomousEye for the advice. Do you all have any tips about getting a research position, are some aspects mor valuable than others? Is it important to do it at a top place or at a place I ma have a shot at matching at? Thanks again

 

[cme2c]

I was somewhat surpised reading this thread. Based on the number of interviews, programs do seem to discriminate against DOs. That was not my experience serving on my training program departments interview committee a few years ago. We didn't care about DO vs MD. (A small program in the Midwest). Like most programs we did have some basic cutoffs for Step 1 for students we didn't "know." You just had to do it with the number of applicants.

I would imagine the larger, prestigious programs discriminating against DOs more. So I would recommend doing away rotations at some smaller programs too. I know the faculty at the programs in my region way better than I do the ones back east and would give more weight to their letters than someone I don't know. While it is the AUPOs official policy that away rotations are not "encouraged", it's hard not to take it into account. If you had two applicants that were otherwise similar, you would obviously take the one that rotated with you. (Assuming that person was normal, which no offense is not apparent to weird people, they think they are normal). I found LOR from the top programs to be useless. They all said the same things and often you got the impression that they were just rewriting the persons CV for them. Even saw a couple that looked like they were templated. One of my friends had a fellowship applicant last year that had a glaring letter of recommendation from her chairman, and subsequently withdrew because she had been kicked out after multiple issues throughout her training.

 

[nsxracingy2k]

I was somewhat surpised reading this thread. Based on the number of interviews, programs do seem to discriminate against DOs. That was not my experience serving on my training program departments interview committee a few years ago. We didn't care about DO vs MD. (A small program in the Midwest). Like most programs we did have some basic cutoffs for Step 1 for students we didn't "know." You just had to do it with the number of applicants.

I would imagine the larger, prestigious programs discriminating against DOs more. So I would recommend doing away rotations at some smaller programs too. I know the faculty at the programs in my region way better than I do the ones back east and would give more weight to their letters than someone I don't know. While it is the AUPOs official policy that away rotations are not "encouraged", it's hard not to take it into account. If you had two applicants that were otherwise similar, you would obviously take the one that rotated with you. (Assuming that person was normal, which no offense is not apparent to weird people, they think they are normal). I found LOR from the top programs to be useless. They all said the same things and often you got the impression that they were just rewriting the persons CV for them. Even saw a couple that looked like they were templated. One of my friends had a fellowship applicant last year that had a glaring letter of recommendation from her chairman, and subsequently withdrew because she had been kicked out after multiple issues throughout her training.

Thank you for sharing this extremely useful information. Do you mind sharing the Step 1 cutoffs with us?

 

[cme2c]

Thank you for sharing this extremely useful information. Do you mind sharing the Step 1 cutoffs with us?

It was around 220 at the time, but based on what I know the applicant pool has improved, so I'm sure it would be higher now. Applicants who had rotated in the department and did well were pretty much given an interview automatically.