Just as the title says, what should we future P1's be aware of before we start. Like jobs/internships. Studying and just general stuff like that.
Advice for future P1 Students
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owlegrad
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Search, read, pay heed.
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Don't become a P1.
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ITT:
Recently accepted student who is probably still jumping for joy at getting in gets told to not bother with pharmacy school. Can't help but laugh
I'll second this though.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=844482
Recently accepted student who is probably still jumping for joy at getting in gets told to not bother with pharmacy school. Can't help but laugh
I'll second this though.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=844482
ITT:
Recently accepted student who is probably still jumping for joy at getting in gets told to not bother with pharmacy school. Can't help but laugh
I'll second this though.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=844482
And 4 years from now, when s/he has 6 figures in student loans and has to work at Starbucks for the health insurance because the job market is even more saturated than it is now?
When I got in, 20 plus years ago, I was working at a restaurant with a woman who had just gotten a liberal arts bachelor's degree (don't remember in what). She flunked a P1 class and decided it wasn't worth it, and told me, "Get out now while you still have brain cells left to think with."
Although the job is becoming unrecognizable relative to what it was a few years ago, I still have no regrets. Like I've said, if this job tanks (unlikely at this point 🙂) I will probably retire - and I'm not yet 50.- Joined
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if p1 now, change your major.
if you really want to be an rph for some god knows what reason, then get a job at a cvs now and do everything they say from the training to doing register, all the b.s. and make sure the pharmacy supervisor likes you. that way when you graduate in 4 years you have a job.
but more seriously, change your major. if you are going to spend 4 years studying, do not waste it on pharmacy. that was so 12 years ago. whats going on now is PT or OT. i saw a job wanted posting for a PT in my area, $58/hr starting.
if you really want to be an rph for some god knows what reason, then get a job at a cvs now and do everything they say from the training to doing register, all the b.s. and make sure the pharmacy supervisor likes you. that way when you graduate in 4 years you have a job.
but more seriously, change your major. if you are going to spend 4 years studying, do not waste it on pharmacy. that was so 12 years ago. whats going on now is PT or OT. i saw a job wanted posting for a PT in my area, $58/hr starting.
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Thats funny! Everything changes and then cycles back again. Back in 1992-93, before I went into the Army, I was considering PT or OT. These were the hot healthcare fields to go into. Very few schools with insane competition to get in. I got out of the Army in 1998 and the OT and PT fields had crashed and burned. The degree went to a Doctorate, the field became saturated, a bunch of new schools opened, no one could find a job and the salaries plumeted. By the time I got out of the Army in 1998 OT and PT were over. In 1992 they were making 75k or so and in '98 they were jobs listed for 55k. Kind of a good model to predict what will happen to pharmacy. The only good news is it looks like OT and PT are rebounding. The bad news is it has taken about 20 years.
If everyone on here really thinks about it what happened to PT and OT is exactly what will happen to pharmacy.
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The other issue with pharmacy is the rapid increase in salaries due to a temporary shortage. There will be a correction now that there is a surplus. Go back to 1997 before the big pharmacy lottery hit and salaries jumped up to over 100k in less than 5 years. The average retail pharmacist in the mid-west was making $55,000 a year. Lets assume a 3% increase in salary per year since then. That would be $85,688 today. Which is about right or maybe a little to high for what a retail pharmacist does. I am sorry but there is no way in hell a retail pharmacist is worth $130,000 a year. The big chains have dumbed this job down to a point where an advance associate degree technician could do it for $50,000 a year.
My wonderful company is a prime example of this. They have instituted a draconian performance evaluation system designed to ensure hardly anyone gets a raise or a bonus. In fact many pharmacists will be getting a pay CUT this year. The max raise for the top performing pharmacy managers (top 4 out of 20) in my district is 2%. Which is 1.2% less than the rate of inflation last year. Based on rankings by the pharmacy supervisor it goes down to the bottom ranked pharmacists getting nothing. The evaluation is based solely on meeting performance metrics that have nothing to do with the actual practice of pharmacy. The pay cut comes because they re-did their pay levels based on prescription volume. They have now raised the top pay level based on volume so high only 4 stores qualify. Stores that qualified last year on the old levels get dropped a level and thus get a pay cut.
My wonderful company is a prime example of this. They have instituted a draconian performance evaluation system designed to ensure hardly anyone gets a raise or a bonus. In fact many pharmacists will be getting a pay CUT this year. The max raise for the top performing pharmacy managers (top 4 out of 20) in my district is 2%. Which is 1.2% less than the rate of inflation last year. Based on rankings by the pharmacy supervisor it goes down to the bottom ranked pharmacists getting nothing. The evaluation is based solely on meeting performance metrics that have nothing to do with the actual practice of pharmacy. The pay cut comes because they re-did their pay levels based on prescription volume. They have now raised the top pay level based on volume so high only 4 stores qualify. Stores that qualified last year on the old levels get dropped a level and thus get a pay cut.
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I totally agree with you - the jobs of most PharmD's don't merit 130K. But unfortunately when pharmacists started making more money, the schools started increasing their tuition because they knew their students were gonna make bank when they got out and they could pay the loans back, no problem. Tuitions that used to be 30k/yr are now 45k/yr.....pharmacists NEED to get paid over 100K now, not really because their job duties earn it, but just so they can pay their loans back. I don't mind getting paid 80K/year as a pharmacist if tuition was halved....but if it's not...I'm gonna be pissed if I don't make 100k or more! I blame the schools more than anyone, for their greed, and for increasing tuition every single year. It's going to take at least 10 years for the problem to correct itself, that'll be how long it takes for students to realize that going to pharmacy school is going to cost more than what they will earn.
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Don't blame the schools. Blame ignorant people that take out 100k-200k in federal unsubsidized 6.8% loans. Blame the government for giving out these loans like candy to anyone with a pulse basically. The schools are merely adjusting to a changing market in that there are people waiting in line to give them tens of thousands of dollars. They raise tuition by 1.5x, 2x or whatever and there are still hordes of people waiting in line to get in. Same thing is happening in all professional schools: (NYU Dentistry: $65,000 tuition a year, Columbia Medical: $50,000 tuition a year, New England College of Optometry: $32,000 a year etc. etc.) Now is NOT a good time to do a professional school if you don't have financial support unless you want to be repaying those loans for the next 10, 20 or 30 years. There is a huge tuition bubble.
👍 yes, you're right.
First crisis: housing bubble burst - 2008
Second crisis: tuition bubble burst - 20?? - its coming
I think all the healthcare professions are facing the same crisis. I was in the hospital yesterday with a family member and the nurse there out of no where jumped and said don't ever think about becoming a doctor. A lot of doctors she knows are facing issues with high MalPractice insurance....etc.
However, I think that any one can find a job if they have good connections, able to relocate if needed, and of course do well in pharmacy school; after all, it's not what you know but who you know. One of my friends here in brooklyn NY (Where there is huge saturation of pharmacists) already has a job waiting for him and he is a P4 student about to graduate. He said that being an intern helps a lot and having good communication skills also helps.
However, I think that any one can find a job if they have good connections, able to relocate if needed, and of course do well in pharmacy school; after all, it's not what you know but who you know. One of my friends here in brooklyn NY (Where there is huge saturation of pharmacists) already has a job waiting for him and he is a P4 student about to graduate. He said that being an intern helps a lot and having good communication skills also helps.
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Thank you. Take a look at this that just came out on the dental forums: http://dentistry.usc.edu/programs/dds/cost-of-attendance/
Tough times indeed.
lol WOWW I thought USC's pharmacy tuition at 45k/yr was a lot. Then again dentists do make more money. I'm seriously considering going into another field. No matter which way I look at it, it seems like I'm going to be paying to be a pharmacist instead of getting paid to be a pharmacist.🙁
Good luck with other fields if you look at it from this point of view. Pharmcists get paid less but the tuition for pharmacy school is much much cheaper than dental schools. Perhaps try one of the public pharmacy schools. For example, SUNY buffalo tuition is like 20k per year for instate students (without scholarships, financial aid...etc) and you can get residency after the first year (which is considered as undergraduate tuition). You might end up paying something like 80k in SUNY buffalo for all 4 years, not bad.
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Yes, that is a good option. I go to SUNY Optometry and since I'm in-state I only pay $18,500 a year. Also, I get some limited scholarships and I live at home so that's how I'm avoiding the bubble. Definitely go the cheapest way possible or just do a PhD. They pay you $30,000 a year or so to study if you don't want to risk taking out crazy loans or you can look into military scholarships as well to see if they are for you.
Wow... I suddenly don't feel as ripped off having to pay the ~$30,000 a year tuition for an out-of-state private pharmacy program...
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What a rip off! I'm surprised that more Cali people aren't getting the same training in the midwest for less than half of the cost. Several midwest universities allow instate tuition after the first year.
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Ok...so try to keep up with material! I was able to force myself to study as I go a few times and it was so worth it come test week. I'm WAY better at keeping up this semester. Read over your slides or notes from the day that evening. Try to reread them once a week. I found that I need to write out the slides to really retain the information. OR I need to read the text book and take notes on it. Find out your learning style if you don't already know (if you can). I had an easy time getting through undergrad and I realized when I got here that I didn't really know what works best for me. Utilize your resources. I have an appointment tomorrow with the campus learning center to begin to hone in on my study strategies. I think it will be very useful.
Don't start asking people about grades! It might be impossible to resist. But it will either make you frustrated or cocky. Just do your best and try not to be obsessed with making all A's. At least for me, it's hard to make A's in pharmacy school. And I'm used to making the top grades in the class in things like organic chemistry...in a class of 165. But not here! I do the best I can and I make B's a lot. It REALLY frustrated me first semester b/c I thought if I REALLY applied myself completely that I could surely make all A's. Nope. Maybe you're different. Maybe your school is different. This is just my experience. All I can do is the best I can do. And I'm not failing by any means...so that's ok. Sure, I want to be able to do a residency. But I can't do any better than my best.
Get involved. You might not feel like it at first but at least join 1 or 2 organizations that you plan to be an active member in. That helps you to meet people and it also sets you out from a lot of other people who wait until 2nd or 3rd year so that they can have something on their resume/CV. Starting in 1st year shows more commitment. Plus there are a lot of neat opportunities that you will get a long the way.
And have some fun. First semester I was really struggling to get in the groove. People were saying how 1st year is so easy. It has not been "easy" by any means for me. I have not taken any of these classes before. Some people have taken them already and so the material is somewhat a review to a certain extent. It's all new to me. And I'm working my butt off. Yeah I'm sure next year I'll look back and think this year was "easy" compared. But while I'm in it...it's not. That being said, I have found some dance classes in the area that I committed to and paid for and I make a priority to go twice a week. I just started them this semester and I feel so much happier than I did last semester. Some of it is that I'm more used to things. But definitely some of it is that I have made room for my hobbies. Sometimes (usually) I think I'm too tired or too busy to go. But I go anyway. And I never regret it.
Other than that...just relax and enjoy the down time that you have before August. 🙂 You'll do fine!
Don't start asking people about grades! It might be impossible to resist. But it will either make you frustrated or cocky. Just do your best and try not to be obsessed with making all A's. At least for me, it's hard to make A's in pharmacy school. And I'm used to making the top grades in the class in things like organic chemistry...in a class of 165. But not here! I do the best I can and I make B's a lot. It REALLY frustrated me first semester b/c I thought if I REALLY applied myself completely that I could surely make all A's. Nope. Maybe you're different. Maybe your school is different. This is just my experience. All I can do is the best I can do. And I'm not failing by any means...so that's ok. Sure, I want to be able to do a residency. But I can't do any better than my best.
Get involved. You might not feel like it at first but at least join 1 or 2 organizations that you plan to be an active member in. That helps you to meet people and it also sets you out from a lot of other people who wait until 2nd or 3rd year so that they can have something on their resume/CV. Starting in 1st year shows more commitment. Plus there are a lot of neat opportunities that you will get a long the way.
And have some fun. First semester I was really struggling to get in the groove. People were saying how 1st year is so easy. It has not been "easy" by any means for me. I have not taken any of these classes before. Some people have taken them already and so the material is somewhat a review to a certain extent. It's all new to me. And I'm working my butt off. Yeah I'm sure next year I'll look back and think this year was "easy" compared. But while I'm in it...it's not. That being said, I have found some dance classes in the area that I committed to and paid for and I make a priority to go twice a week. I just started them this semester and I feel so much happier than I did last semester. Some of it is that I'm more used to things. But definitely some of it is that I have made room for my hobbies. Sometimes (usually) I think I'm too tired or too busy to go. But I go anyway. And I never regret it.
Other than that...just relax and enjoy the down time that you have before August. 🙂 You'll do fine!
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My advice: Be humble and go into it with an open mind. You do not have all the answers and you never will. You will also do things you never thought you would ever do. You will be exposed to things you never thought you'd like in a million years. Going into pharmacy school I was certain I was going to be a retail pharmacist. My direction changed when I decided to join the military almost 4 years ago and haven't looked back since.
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But even if it does, most of these new grads with huge loan balances will receive the benefit of some major government aid package... if not have their student loans wiped clean altogether.
In fact, its almost reason enough to borrow excessively now... before it all goes down.
Good thing is you live at home.....I'm applying to SUNY buffalo but I live in NYC so I would have to live in their dorms for extra 10k a year or live off campus and add to that the commute to rotations, basic needs from stores....etc. It still the cheapest and best option as SUNY buffalo is very well respected school.
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Wishful thinking. The government is broke and the only thing that will help wipe your loans is massive inflation. This country is changing because of a high reproductive rate of lazy government cheese eaters. Intelligent people and professionals have a lower reproductive rate and will be the minority. Look at the ghettos in all the major cities. The lazy people will elect socialist politicians (Badbama) and there will be a spiral down to the ground.
Like my high school math teacher said, "America is only great because of immigrants and natural resources."
/end political rant
Wishful thinking on who's part? Not mine.
Also, the government is broke? Since when has that stopped spending? The US has had debt for most (if not all) of its existence. Nobody cares.
I'm just pointing out that warning all these P1s about an impending "bubble burst" is pointless. They are likely to benefit from it.
You are right about massive inflation though. That's going to help everyone with debt as well.
Yeah, going to an out-of-state school is def. a cheaper option but not for me. I want to live and practice in CA so I need to go to school here, intern here, network here etc...I also love my home state and am really stubborn about wasting a few years of my life living somewhere else. Close-minded, yes, but that's how I feel😀 As for other fields...I didn't mean I want to become a dentist lol. I would just look into something else that wouldn't cost so much. and would have less risk associated with it. Just seems to be very risky to be a pharmacy student these days. I don't know it's hard to decide whether to move forward or not.
+1
FYI: If you have a pharmacy degree, it's almost impossible to get a job doing anything else. Hoo boy, did I ever find that out the hard way. I was starting to wonder if I should cover myself with tattoos, get a bunch of exotic facial piercings, and dye my hair a color that doesn't exist in or out of nature because that's pretty much all I saw at other jobs.
With all the happenings in pharmacy right now I would consider another field. Prescription growth is almost flat yet the supply of rph labor is increasing greatly. If I remember correctly you are from CA. Once the Sacramento school and the THREE (3) new southern CA schools open,consider pharmacy done--finished--nada. There was also a Fresno school in the works. Sure for the next 5-10 years the employment will be ok in CA, but after those 4-5 schools open, Rph labor in CA will be 100% disposable. I once wanted to live in CA, but that dream shattered after I found out about all the new schools...
30k is 30k no matter if someone else pays 200k. 30k is still high.
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You don't have to tell anyone you have a PharmD. Just say you have a bachelor's degree in science. Or no degree at all. If you aren't applying for a pharmacist position don't list your PharmD degree.
So, how would I otherwise explain my work history? It's kind of hard to get a job as a pharmacist without the degree.
owlegrad
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This response had me
.I am pretty sure SHC meant to just exclude any mention of pharmacy in your applications to non-pharmacy jobs. Say you were a house wife or something.
Didn't you get a job at a call center or something while you were looking for a pharmacy job?
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Aren't you the one complaining about pharmacy being too stressful and you want a job that IS NOT pharmacy related...
Then later on you complain about being over educated for some jobs and therefore you can't get hired...
I am sure that was you.
You are NOT suppose to list your PharmD degree unless you are applying for a job as a Pharmacist. (I think that's just common sense)
Like for example if I was applying for a job as a Pharm Sales rep or Secretary or something...I'll just list my bachelor's degree in chemistry. That would be more than enough. I would never list a PharmD degree unless I was looking to become a pharmacist.
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This is pretty sage advice you can use at any point in your career.
Didn't you work at Home Depot?
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I still think pharmacy is a good profession. However, one needs to not only work harder but smarter as well. It is very competitive nowadays so make sure you stand out. Try to get an intern position during your first year. Do well in school so you can apply for scholarships.
Aren't you the one complaining about pharmacy being too stressful and you want a job that IS NOT pharmacy related...
Then later on you complain about being over educated for some jobs and therefore you can't get hired...
I am sure that was you.
No, that wasn't me. I did, however, work briefly at a call center before Christmas 2010; I took the job mostly because I was bored. But not that bored; I realized after a week that it was nothing but a boiler room, and an acquaintance who practices law in that town told me later that this place was really truly worse than I could ever imagine. And I had a hard time getting them to pay me, too. No, I didn't put THAT job on my resume.
I "know" someone from another website (who lurks here, BTW) who worked at a coffee shop when she was between jobs, but she knew the owner so that helped.
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I win, it was a call center!!!😀
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I was wondering..."is it possible to get an internship before P1 starts?"
I was admitted to a California school that starts around August and was wondering if I could use this summer to do something that can improve my resume. Logically, I don't know if this is possible since I won't be able to get the intern license until I am officially "enrolled." If doing an internship before P1 is ever possible, I would be interested to know about that route. If this is absolutely not possible, what would you guys recommend on how to spend this summer?
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Yes, there are a lot of issues with a lot of the health care field - but it's the same for nearly every job category out there. Someone is always trying to get them one way or another.
That said, blanket statements like that from a nurse (or anyone) should be an alarm to you. Those are usually incorrect.
Yes there are issues, but with everything taken into account - it's still a great field to be in.
Pharmacy as well. Though there's a lot of complaining going on, it's still a good field to make decent money in. Probably not like the golden days of the start of the decade, but it is still several notches above most.
