Advice for Low GPA

[scowdeva]

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I read the Georgtown website and they say that after their SMP, 80% of students get accepted into a med school within two years and 15% of those go to Georgetown Medschool without having to repeat those courses. Maybe if I could get in there and befriend some professors, maybe I could make it, along with LORs and ECs. It is very expensive though, but it seems there is financial aid available (federal).

The hard part is going to be getting ACCEPTED into some of these very competitive SMPs. There is some pretty good competition for these seats as well, and usually they have a cut off of at least a 3.0. That would mean that you would have to take classes long enough to get your undergrad GPA up to at least a 3.0 to even make the cutoff for applying for an SMP. When the committee is looking at who to accept for that one seat (I hear it is something like 4 or 5 applicants per seat for SMPs) they are likely going to take someone who is not just brushing the bare minimum of the requirement.

 

[Excelsius]

Guys, please don't get agitated. He said look it up, so I gave it one more try and that's when I found the info. I am not trying to contradict anyone, but when I get information, especially if it is incomplete, I try to find out a little more about it online. So if I find something more in depth, it's because you guys point in the right direction. Listening, verifying, elaborating, ... the scientific method.

I know that I will now transfer, do the best I can there, then go to an SMP. Will do research and continue volunteer work while at college (+work). Thanks for all the help. The only thing that I am not 100% sure about is whether SMPs calculate my GPA using all of my grades and whether I'll have a chance to attend GTown SMP after graduating. Maybe I should try to talk to someone in person about this.

Thanks for the help. No hard feelings....

 

[Vihsadas]

Maybe they are basic for you and some of the SDN veterans, that's why I am asking you guys. I tried to look up BCPM again, and it seems that geology is NOT counted in it (http://www.aamc.org/students/amcas/2008amcasinstructionsrvs.pdf). One of us must be wrong. In either case, I am happier now since my non-AMCAS BCPM increased by .4 and the AMCAS one by 0.2!

I read the Georgtown website and they say that after their SMP, 80% of students get accepted into a med school within two years and 15% of those go to Georgetown Medschool without having to repeat those courses. Maybe if I could get in there and befriend some professors, maybe I could make it, along with LORs and ECs. It is very expensive though, but it seems there is financial aid available (federal).

First of all, one of your earlier comments was very worrisome. A 3.4 in an SMP will NOT cut it. Furthermore, the fact that you are asking that question tells me that your current state of mind is "What is the minimum that I have to do" instead of "What is the best that I can do". The students that fare well after the SMP program are the students that give up absolutely everything else in their lives and are really gunning for that 4.0. These are the students that will study for 10-16 hrs. every single day for the entire 11 months of the SMP. If you don't have that kind of determination, the road ahead of you is simply unattainable. If you are going into the SMP thinking that you need a 3.4 your are not being realistic. You need a 4.0. That should be your goal, and you will have to sacrifice everything in your life to get it.

With your academic record, you will also have to destroy the MCAT. I was very successful on the MCAT, but even that is not enough to overcome a bad GPA. Consider that I applied with a 3.3 and a 40, and got absolutely zero interviews. Granted I applied late, but even so. Even with that high MCAT, there are no guarantees. Check out my profile for a dose of reality about what a low GPA (From a Top 15 internationally ranked school nonetheless) can do to destroy your application.

Also, the georgetown SMP is no joke. This will be (pretty much guaranteed) the most work you will do in your life over the span of 11 months, besides maybe residency, but that's 7-8 years in the future. Being a physics major and understanding quantum mechanics or solid state physics or what have you isn't going to impress any Adcom, and I can tell you that its not applicable to how well you will do in the SMP. I did a joint honors major in Physics and physiology so I know exactly how difficult advanced physics courses can be.

Lastly, the 80% acceptance rate from the georgetown SMP include foreign medical schools and DO schools. So the numbers are highly inflated. My best friend just graduated the SMP. I can tell you that you basically MUST have a 3.7 or higher in the SMP to even have a solid at georgetown itself, let alone other schools. Their website hasn't been update in some time, so you really can't trust it.

Frankly, I think that you need to be more realistic about what exactly you will have to do to even have a shot, and then be further realistic that even if you do everything right from here on out, you still may not make it. From your posts and the way that you have stated your thoughts, it doesn't seem like you really are truly aware of how difficult the path will be. If I was in your position, and I was completely heart-set on MD schools, I would probably apply for another bachelors degree and complete that in 2-3 years, then go to an SMP. I would further make sure that every grade I received was no less than A or A-.

 

[Excelsius]

You are right about 3.4 comment. It can be viewed as stupid. I am of course going for 4.0, however, I wanted to find out how much of a margin I would have based on the time required to study to achieve that GPA. For example, if it takes 15 hours of work a day to get close to 4.0, that would mean that I have to plan accordingly since I will not be able work for almost a year. If I could easily get in with let's say 3.6 at an SMP, then maybe I could squeeze at least part time work in there. But I think you answered that question already - I won't be able to work for a year. That's bad, but I have to do it.

I am sorry to hear that you didn't get in anywhere this time. There are a lot of profiles out there. Some are very encouraging, others are discouraging. People keep stressing that it is important to apply as early as possible with low stats. I am sure you'll get in. You haven't yet done an post bacc work anyway.

No one has suggested doing a second bachelors so far. I would do that only as a last resort because it would take away so much time from my life. By the time I apply to med school, i may be discriminated against for my age, in addition to everything else. If you guys really think that a second bachelor's is necessary or will help significantly, then I'll look into it and ask around.

Just because I am calm and optimistic doesn't mean I don't understand the gravity of my situation. What am I supposed to do? Panic and cry? That's not how I can overcome this. I haven't even transferred yet, but I am already planning every step of the way. That should tell you something about how serious I am about this, especially given that I already have a guaranteed career in physics in one of the top institutions in the world. Medicine is what I want to do...


Thank you for you advice. I really hope that you get into a good med school. That's an inspiration to the rest of us who have screwed up something along the way as well. If you could give some tips about MCAT prep, it would be great.

 

[biturbomunkie]

I will be transferring with physics major. I know that bio is much harder, but that's not my major anyway. Plus I'll be probably going to the lower ranking UCs: UCI, UCR.... Plus there is that TAG, which is a guarantee.

honestly, i'd be worried about getting into a UC if i were you. few UCs will allow someone to become a life/p-sci major if s/he got a C or lower in prereqs (sorry, TAG is pretty useless and it won't save you here). besides, i didn't think you could transfer to a UC with that many units. how come you didn't transfer earlier? IIRC, UCR sent out acceptance letters in mid-feb/march. if you haven't received one, you should consider reapplying to UCM and UCD (or consider CSUs, which are good schools also) in the coming months if they reopen the application process (though competitive majors will be gone by then). while UCD ranks "higher" than a few other UCs, it's trying to become the "flagship" campus and will take a few applicants with lower GPAs in non-hardcore majors. but maybe you have non-competitive 2nd majors as backups so that's why you don't seem worried at all.

I know that I will now transfer, do the best I can there, then go to an SMP. Will do research and continue volunteer work while at college (+work). Thanks for all the help. The only thing that I am not 100% sure about is whether SMPs calculate my GPA using all of my grades and whether I'll have a chance to attend GTown SMP after graduating. Maybe I should try to talk to someone in person about this.

if i were you, i'd focus on GPA rehabilitation while at a UC. review your financial awards once you get your acceptance letters, then pick whoever pays you the most if you are really that tight on money. i'd forget about research/volunteering also. ECs are only good when your GPA is solid (for med school or any other grad program).

lastly, i think this needs to be said again: consider DO schools (or other health professions) and forget about ivies. i know folks with better stats and they are way less selective.

 

[Vihsadas]

It's really good to hear that your previous comment about a 3.4 was to plan for what you will have to do. And yes, its true, you simply cannot work when you're in the SMP. It's an all consuming endeavor.

Also, its nice to hear that you are cogent about the steps you will have to take. This also is good news. Trust me, I know what its like to have everyone in the world tell you that 'there is simply no way that you can make it'. I've been there! see here. I was the kid with a 2.9 or 3.0 in my fourth year in university (switched majors) whose friends thought he was dellusional when he said exactly as you have said, "Medicine is what I want to do...". I was also the guy that didn't let those friends dissuade him. So I truly want you to succeed, I really do. Further, I think that you can. I am just trying to be absolutely frank with what you will have to go through in order to get there. It's going to be the hardest 2-3 years of your life, but it seems like you're realizing now just how much of a shift in paradigm you are going to have to make.

The reason that I suggested that you should do another bachelors degree is simply due to cutoffs. At some schools even having a 3.0 Ugrad GPA will not get you past the number cutoffs. That being said, having below a 3.0 will most certainly get you cut before a human even looks at your app. This is largely true even with a stellar SMP year. So my reasoning was that you need to get that GPA up above 3.0 (perferably to 3.2 or 3.3) somehow before you go to an SMP. Whether or not you do that by taking another major or by just taking extra classes is up to you, but I think that it needs to be done.

Lastly, I am all for optimism, but I'm completely against blind optimism. I like realistic optimism better. This type of optimism is different because it is aware of how hard attaining a goal might be, but also knows that all goals are attainable. I think that as you get some more information on the craziness that medical school admissions is, you'll realize more and more (as you have here) exactly how hard this will be. That being said, make sure that every single choice that you make from this moment forward is going to be taking you closer to your goal. If there is something that you can do to reach your goal make sure that you do it. If you don't do that, then you'll have regrets. And noone likes those. 😛
Good luck man, I really hope that you're able to make it happen.

 

[tiedyeddog]

It's really good to hear that your previous comment about a 3.4 was to plan for what you will have to do. And yes, its true, you simply cannot work when you're in the SMP. It's an all consuming endeavor.

Also, its nice to hear that you are cogent about the steps you will have to take. This also is good news. Trust me, I know what its like to have everyone in the world tell you that 'there is simply no way that you can make it'. I've been there! see here. I was the kid with a 2.9 or 3.0 in my fourth year in university (switched majors) whose friends thought he was dellusional when he said exactly as you have said, "Medicine is what I want to do...". I was also the guy that didn't let those friends dissuade him. So I truly want you to succeed, I really do. Further, I think that you can. I am just trying to be absolutely frank with what you will have to go through in order to get there. It's going to be the hardest 2-3 years of your life, but it seems like you're realizing now just how much of a shift in paradigm you are going to have to make.

The reason that I suggested that you should do another bachelors degree is simply due to cutoffs. At some schools even having a 3.0 Ugrad GPA will not get you past the number cutoffs. That being said, having below a 3.0 will most certainly get you cut before a human even looks at your app. This is largely true even with a stellar SMP year. So my reasoning was that you need to get that GPA up above 3.0 (perferably to 3.2 or 3.3) somehow before you go to an SMP. Whether or not you do that by taking another major or by just taking extra classes is up to you, but I think that it needs to be done.

Lastly, I am all for optimism, but I'm completely against blind optimism. I like realistic optimism better. This type of optimism is different because it is aware of how hard attaining a goal might be, but also knows that all goals are attainable. I think that as you get some more information on the craziness that medical school admissions is, you'll realize more and more (as you have here) exactly how hard this will be. That being said, make sure that every single choice that you make from this moment forward is going to be taking you closer to your goal. If there is something that you can do to reach your goal make sure that you do it. If you don't do that, then you'll have regrets. And noone likes those. 😛
Good luck man, I really hope that you're able to make it happen.

Vishadas, I have a 3.87 and I think your support for this dude even gives me a little more determination. Hope you do well in the next coming cycle, if I was an adcom I'd let you in.

 

[Vihsadas]

Vishadas, I have a 3.87 and I think your support for this dude even gives me a little more determination. Hope you do well in the next coming cycle, if I was an adcom I'd let you in.

Thanks man!

And...what a coincidence! Your signature sums up a large part of what I'm trying to say nicely (The second quote)

 

[Howzat]

Thanks man!

And...what a coincidence! Your signature sums up a large part of what I'm trying to say nicely (The second quote)

By the way, what's "Vihsadas"? Just out of curiousity... 🙂

 

[Excelsius]

Vihsadas, thank you for the frank words. Today is about the third step of my journey as I am starting a new volunteer involvement. It has been hard for me too, even just to persevere despite all the tough replies I have received in some of the forums. For people like us, sometimes we seem to need others to tell us we're a loser because it elicits a certain level of wrath which then foments determination. I hope we all succeed.

The tough road to medical school - a summary:
(from the beginning to the end)



Probability of survival= what you do after you're scared.

Good luck to everyone. The fact that we're all here spending so much time on admission questions, means we have a lot of determination. I say all medschools should give SDN members a positive admissions bias. Let's put it as an EC!

 

[Vihsadas]

Vihsadas, thank you for the frank words. Today is about the third step of my journey as I am starting a new volunteer involvement. It has been hard for me too, even just to persevere despite all the tough replies I have received in some of the forums. For people like us, sometimes we seem to need others to tell us we're a loser because it elicits a certain level of wrath which then foments determination. I hope we all succeed.

It's funny you should mention that. One of my friends asked me once how I can keep up the pace that I do, and the drive that come along with it.

I remember replying something like, "I think its because no matter what happens, whether good or bad it will be a motivating factor. If someone tells me I'm not good enough, I get determined to show myself that I am. If someone tells me I'm doing a great job, I get determined and drive to keep up the good work. If someone succeed where they shouldn't and I didn't, sure I might get a little bit bitter (it's only natural), but I don't JUST get bitter. I get bitter and determined."


Keep up that stalwart focus. You're going to need to sustain it for a few years in the future, and trust me (from experience here) it's hard to keep that determination going...just keep up the drive!