Advice for prereqs please

[mmapcpro]

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Hello,

My name is Scott. I am a married 30 year old man with two step-children that I take care of and love very dearly.

I moved to Central Florida 5 years ago to attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University's Engineering Physics program. At the time, I was completely uncertain what career I wanted to pursue. I simply chose Engineering Physics because it seemed to be an extremely challenging program, and I have a strong interest in science.

During the course of my studies, while maintaining a 3.93CGPA, I worked full time for a dental technology integration company. I was responsible for researching, developing methods of integrating, installing, and maintaining computer and video networks for intra-oral cameras, digital radiography systems, practice management, and digital imaging systems.

Two years ago, my wife and I lost our child of only three weeks. This experience was extremely devastating to us. To get through this tragedy, I dove into work and put aside my studies. We started our own dental technology company, DigiworX, and I have worked very diligently to build our business.

In the course of doing so, I have had the opportunity to witness the practice of dentistry first hand. I have become good friends with some of our clients, and I have realized at long last, that dentistry has everything that I've been looking for in a career.

I am making preparations to begin taking the prerequisite courses in January 2004. I have been transitioning accounts to other support providers and my wife is seeking employment to support us in reaching this goal.

The university that is somewhat local to me is the University of Central Florida. Since I was previously attending a private university, I do not have any foreign language credits. Furthermore, since I scored a 34 out of 36 on the English portion of the ACT test, Embry-Riddle exempted me from English Composition requirements. The University of Central Florida will not admit me without these credits. Therefore, as a secondary plan, I thought to take these classes at the local community college.

As it pains me greatly to think of wasting two semesters worth of time on only four classes, I considered taking some of the other prerequisites (Biology, Microbiology, and Psychology) to best take advantage of the time I have. It has been suggested that I only take the prerequisite courses at an accredited 4-year university or the credits might not be accepted.

I fully intend on transferring to UCF for the Fall 2004 semester to finish the prerequisites there. Furthermore, while I take the DAT test and go through the application procedure for dental school, I will continue to take courses in the pursuit of the Bachelor or Arts in Biology degree.

I would appreciate any recommendations or suggestions regarding my educational path.

Thank you,

Scott Uneberg

 

[croco]

Before you set up a recommended schedule for yourslef I would try pick 3 different schools in whch you are interested in attending and see if their pre-req courses and basically the same. If they are here is how I would set my schedule up. Some personal contacts have told me that if you work and support a family while taking classes there are extra kudos in your chances of being accepted.

Before I give you my recommended plan, what pre-req courses do you have under your belt?

 

[mmapcpro]

UF seems to require a few more courses than the others, so I figure if I meet their requirements, I should be pretty good to go.

The only prereqs I have under my belt are physics 1 and 2, and general chemistry 1. I only took a half of a semester of organic chemistry, as it was part of my chemical stoichiometry class, so I want to take organic from the beginning.

 

[croco]

I would forget the bachelors in arts in biology and jump on the pre-req bandwagon. if you keep your GPA the way it is and make a solid score on the DAT, a bachelors degree is not going to make much of a difference. Make sure though that each semester you keep a full work-load of classes (12-15 hrs). I would not recommend going past 15 unless you think you can handle it.

What is going to be very crucial is your DAT score. Typically this is what makes you or breaks you. If you maintain that GPA and score lets say a 19+ you should stroll your way into the school with a solid interview intact.

One more tip: Do not take 15 hours worth of natural sciences. It burns you out. Mix your classes up with an english here and a psychology there and you should finish all your classes in about 4-5 semesters which will allow to apply for 2006.

 

[mmapcpro]

For spring 2004, I'm looking at taking english 1, microbiology w/lab, biology 1 w/lab, and general psychology.

For summer A, I"m looking at taking anatomy/physiology (not a prereq, but I've heard it helps alot), and spanish 1.

For summer B, the plan is to take english 2 and spanish 2.

Then, I would have the requirements to transfer to the 4-year university for Fall 2004. I would take Biology 2 w/lab, organic chemistry 1 w/lab, and general chemistry 2 w/lab.

For Spring 2005, I could take molecular biology, biochemistry, organic chemistry 2 w/lab and immunology.

This would take care of my prerequisite, and leave me with only 25 credits more for the bachelors...so, I was thinking of taking the DAT in May 2005. If I can manage to do well enough on the first attempt, I will then be able to start applying in July 2005.

While I wait out the admissions process, I'll try to finish those remaining 25 credits over Summer B 2005, Fall 2005, and Spring 2006.

I know plans like this rarely work out as designed, but at least it's a good roadmap to follow.

When I was in Embry-Riddle, my semester would look something like this:
Differential Equations and Matrix Methods
Vector Calculus
Statics
Fluid Mechanics
Physics II

and, of course, I still had to work 40+ hours/week to support my family, because my wife was usually pregnant (we had a few miscarriages before the last pregancy went to term).

Fortunately, it doesn't look like I'll have to work while going to school this time. If I do, it will only be for a few of my remaining customers on weekends.

Now I've been told that biology is a different kind of learning. I've heard that engineering, physics, and math courses are more analytical and logical, where biology is more memory retension based. Sound about right?

 

[Turnpike]

.

 

[ShawnOne]

Originally posted by Turnpike
No Biology is very analytical. Of course you memorize some things, but alot of it is understanding concepts and systems and being able to apply working knowledge to it. For instance let's say you learn about the female menstrual cyclce. Okay so you memorized what each hormone does, what the egg does, and what regulates what, but you need to be able to really understand the mechanism. Alot of test questions in bio ask things like, well if we screw something up here (ie take birth control pills)... whats the outcome of that gonna be. If you just memorize and don't understand you get screwed. Organic Chem, now theres a memorization class.

I disagree,

Organic Chemistry is very analytical.

Biology is more memory intensive, although still analytical.

 

[mmapcpro]

I just went and CLEP'ed English I yesterday. And since I found out that I can't take Organic Chemistry until after 2 semesters of General Chemistry, my first semester is going to be rough...

Bio I w/lab
Chem I w/lab
Microbio w/lab
Spanish I
English II (online class)

This schedule will leave me with friday, saturday, and sunday completely free, so I'll be able to get a good deal of studying done then.

In the summer, unfortunately, I'll have to take Chemistry II...which I am definitely concerned about. However, I have seen most of the material before in my Chemistry for Engineers class, so I'll get through it somehow.

Of course, when I say, "I'll get through it somehow", I'm really referring to earning an "A"...I have to shoot for the moon, right?

 

[mmapcpro]

Ok...

1) I want to take anatomy and physiology before I sit for the dat, even though it is not a prereq for dental school. The question is, should I bother taking the lab?

2) UF requires a semester of either molecular biology or genetics.
My undergrad university offers both. Which one would better prepare me for the dat?

3) UF says that, although they only require the prerequisite courses, dental school is exponentially more difficult if I don't take the upper level classes to finish the bachelor's degree. Is this true?

4) During my year inbetween the the dat and entering dental school, would it be better to finish courses to complete the bachelor's degree, or should I spend that time shadowing and working along side one of my dentist friends?

 

[Turnpike]

Originally posted by mmapcpro
Ok...

1) I want to take anatomy and physiology before I sit for the dat, even though it is not a prereq for dental school. The question is, should I bother taking the lab?

2) UF requires a semester of either molecular biology or genetics.
My undergrad university offers both. Which one would better prepare me for the dat?

3) UF says that, although they only require the prerequisite courses, dental school is exponentially more difficult if I don't take the upper level classes to finish the bachelor's degree. Is this true?

4) During my year inbetween the the dat and entering dental school, would it be better to finish courses to complete the bachelor's degree, or should I spend that time shadowing and working along side one of my dentist friends?

1) A&P is not going to help you on the DAT at all. None. Zilch. Well maybe a teeny tiny bit, but it really serisouly do not take A&P with hopes of it preparing the DAT better for you. (except maybe a little bit of the physiology). Don't even bother taking it without the lab, without hands on experience you probably won't retain much.

2) You want the molecular biology series for a whole year. It's the 2 semester series that all bio/zoo/biochem majors take. I'm not sure what it's called at your school.... but make sure it includes cell biology (metabolism/DNA/RNA stuff), simple genetics, evolution, animal classifiaction stuff, plant and animal physiology, etc. All that material is on the DAT. I don't think only one semester of molecular bio or genetics will cover all you need to know for the DAT. In fact if you take both those courses (mol bio and genetics) you will not get all the info you need.

3) UF has some truth in that. Dental school is much more rigorous than undergrad. It's like taking 3-4 hard science courses then add on top of that tons of lab work. It's not so much more intellectually challenging, so much as amount of work that needs to be done in a limited amount of time. Taking upper level courses: gross anatomy, histology, biochem, nutrition, pharmacy, pathology, immunology, anything micro, etc will help you alot because you will be taking them in dental school. If you already know the bulk of the material for a class it helps a ton and lets you spend your time on other things. Some people struggle with stuff like biochem and it would be a pain to learn it the first time in dental school. But by no means is it a requirement. Alot of dental students are not science majors so they never took those classes.

4) Thats up to you. You should start shadowing now actually. You want your dental experience before you apply to dental school. So they know you know what dentistry is all about. About finishing up the major... I assume you already have a BA/BS right? If not definately get the degree. If so... well you need to think about #3 up there and see if you feel it is worth it. Talk to some UF students and see what they say.

 

[Midoc]

1) 100% take the lab. For anatomy the paper drawings have little meaning until you see the structures (and variations of the structures) in real life. Physiology was my favorite lab in undergrad. We did a turtle heart vivisection and I will never forget the difference between the SA node and AV node after seeing the seperated atria and ventricle beating at different rates while completely free of the turtle's body and in my hand.

2) I don't think either will be of much use for the DAT, on the other hand molecular biology (basically biochemistry) will be more helpful for dental school. There are a number of genetic diseases that are of concern to dentists but few of them would be covered in a general genetics course.

3) Yes, courses that I took in undergrad that some of my classmates hadn't take include: biochem, physiology, pathophysiology, microbiology, medical bacteriology and human virology. Having taken these classes I have breezed through some classes that my classmates have struggled in.

4) Both, do something like 12 credits and 10 hours a week shadowing, shouldn't be too tough.

btw, check with your school. They may want most people to finish general chem before starting ochem but with your back ground they may allow you to start ochem while concurrently taking gchem2.

I envy your schedule, here is mine:
Nutrition
Microbiology 1
Fixed Prosthodontics
Complete Dentures
Preclinic Orthodontics
General Pathology
Oral Diagnosis and Radiology
Biological Basis for Soft Tissue Disease
Advanced Periodontal Instrumentation
Conservative Esthetic Treatment Techniques

23 credits hours (thats a joke), we're scheduled to be at school 43.5 hours / week and then we have homework time after that. In this environment it is much easier to refresh my memory in Micro than to have to learn it for the first time.

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by Turnpike
It's like taking 3-4 hard science courses then add on top of that tons of lab work. It's not so much more intellectually challenging, so much as amount of work that needs to be done in a limited amount of time.

Great description.

 

[mmapcpro]

Hmmm...

They won't let me take organic1 until after general 2...I asked about this, and they aren't budging.

For me to enter dental school in fall 2006, I would have to apply by summer 2005...which means I only have spring 2004, summer, fall 2004, and spring 2005 to take classes before I take the dat.

I was a junior in engineering physics before realizing I wanted to go into dentistry, so I haven't taken any biology related courses yet.

I won't have the time to take 2 semesters of A&P and 2 semesters of molecular biology before the dat...I certainly will be taking them before dental school because of the year inbetween. However, I think the only classes I will be able to take before the dat will be:

General Biology 1,2
Microbiology
General Chemistry 1,2
Organic Chemistry 1,2
Spanish 1,2
General Psychology
Biochemistry 1
Molecular Cell Biology 1 or Genetics

I have already taken MANY physics and math courses.

Those are the prerequisites for UF.

I was planning on taking around 16 credits per regular semester and 6-7 credits for each of the 2 summer semesters because I want to make sure I have enough time to earn mostly A's.

Will I not be ready to prepare for the dat with these classes under my belt? Or should I push myself to take 19 credits per semester to fit in Biochem 2 and A&P 1,2?

 

[Midoc]

You don't 100% have to apply in the summer of 2005 to get in for 2006. In my case I took my DAT in Nov 2001, applied in Dec 2001 and started school in 2002. Early is better than late.

As far as how many classes to take per semester only you and your wife can answer that. Always remember to schedule in family/friend/social time or you'll never make it. Paraphrasing from Van Wilder "Don't take life so seriously, you'll never make it out alive."

Admittedly I took my DAT two years ago but I don't remember any anatomy or physiology being on it, I'm almost certain there was no micro on it. The courses I would make sure you took before the DAT are Gen Bio 1/2, G-chem 1/2, O-chem 1/2. If you have these six down flat along with your background in math I don't think you'll have any problems.