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Hello Fellow SDN Post-Bacc'ers,
I just completed a yearlong post-bacc pre-med program with all the pre-requisites (Bio, Phys, Gen Chem and Orgo) and have some words of advice to impart upon those of you just starting a post-bacc program this Fall. For whatever its worth, take the following advice with the proverbial grain of NaCl.
First off, dont bite off more than you can chew. Introductory Chem, Physics and Bio might only be 12 credits, but there is a ton of material to learn in these classes (particularly if you've never taken them before), labs almost always involve more work than the paltry one credit they are typically assigned, and you WANT TO DO WELL IN THEM. Very well (think all A's, especially if you have a low ugad gpa). So stick with 12 credit hours your first semester and ace them. If you feel comfortable, take an extra 3 credit bio class in Spring.
How hard this year gets really depends on your own individual abilities, but again, don't try to fill your plate with organizations that you think you have to be heavily involved in and volunteering that you feel you have to conquer this year. How you do academically is far more important this year than which pre-med organizations and how many volunteer hours you amassed. Prioritize, be conservative in estimating how much time you will realistically be able to volunteer and be involved in orgs without adversely affecting your grades.
Don't take calculus based physics. This a mistake many pre-meds make. Calculus based physics is usually much harder than algebra based physics, and most of the people taking the calculus sections are engineering/math/physics majors who you do not want to compete with for grades! Also, MCAT physics questions are designed to be solved using (usually simple) algebra, nothing fancy. So unless calculus based phys is the only option at your school, avoid it.
Try to get into Honors classes. This is really important. Most schools offer Honors sections of almost all the basic science classes (Bio, Chem, even Physics and Orgo. Though I would stay away from Honors Phys unless you are inordinately gifted at math/completing the mental gymastics that physicists do!) I have stressed this before in other threads. Honors classes are so much better than the regular sections for intro classes. They are smaller, taught by full professors, have more engaging activities and though you will not learn 'more,' what you do learn will be more in-depth. Med school admissions commitees are always more impressed with applicants that challenge themselves in hard classes. Getting an A in Honors Chemistry and Biology looks very good on your transcript, and is worth the extra effort required to succeed in these classes. (And if you do decide to take that Honors class, make *sure* you dont load up on too many credits/extracurriculars, because you will have to work for an A in Honors.) And lastly, Honors classes provide excellent opportunities to get recommendations from professors who have really gotten to know you over the course of an entire academic year. This can be a good or bad thing. If you dont like going to class or are not very participatory in class, it will probably mean a poor letter if you even get one at all. On the other hand, if you are diligent, attend every lecture and participate in class dicussions, you will recieve glowing letters that will be far better than what most pre-meds receive. Remember, these letters are forwarded to the pre-med advising office and they write the final committee letter--getting good letters from Honors professors defintely distinguishes your work from the average pre-med.
Orgo is hard! Not in terms of how difficult the concepts are, because they are no difficult to master than some physics topics (in fact, it is not nearly as conceptually difficult as physics), but in terms of the massive amounts of memorization involved. In this regard, it is a lot like medical school--tons of facts (in this case, reactions, reagents, mechanisms, chemical shifts...) that you will (probably, unless your professor is lenient and tests you on theory rather than reactions, but don't count on it) have to just cold-hard memorize. So MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FALL BEHIND IN ORGO, because you will not be able to cram all those facts into your head overnight!
I just completed taking orgo this summer over about 10.5 weeks. I initially planned on taking a physiology class concurrently and also studying for the MCAT, which I had hoped to take this month. After my first week, that all changed. I dropped Physio, pushed off MCAT studying and am now planning on taking the MCAT in April. I feel I'm relatively smart, but I have never worked harder for anything than that A in Orgo. It looks like I'm going to get a B/B+/maybe A- if I'm lucky in Orgo II, and thats even though my numbers are at least 20 points above the class average. In our class this is because some girl is a superfreak (an ode to the late, great, Rick James. He's Rick James b*tch!) crammer, getting 95's on every exam while the class average is a 63. The point is, no matter how 'smart' you are in solving difficult conceptual problems, someone will always be there to kick your butt in Orgo because they can shove boatloads of junk into their head and retain it. So dont slack off.
And a last note on Orgo: taking Orgo over 10.5 weeks in the summer is social suicide. My life (and everyone elses, for that matter) consisted of 1.5 hours of lecture a week, 3 hours of lab, then go home and study for 3 hours with a lecture exam every Friday and a lab exam every other Friday. I lamented signing up for it over the summer initially, but I now think this might have been the best way to approach it. Taking Orgo when you've got other classes to worry about might not be such a good idea, precisely because there is so much memorization. You want to take your exams right after you've read over a chapter because thats when its still going to be there. If you have to go off and read another chapter of Bio or Physics, odds are you're not going to remember which reagent oxidizes an aldose to a aldonic acid (Bromine water) and which oxidizes it to an aldaric acid (Sodium Borohydride....I think....see, I'm forgetting already!) So I recommend taking it in the summer without any other distractions. Of course, this means you will have to put off practically everything else (jobs, internships, et.) to do well, so choose wisely. You may elect to take only the lecture over the summer, with the labs to follow the year following (in your application, or 'glide' year), which might be a very smart option because time is a premium in a 10-11 week summer semester and you don't want to have to worry about lab work when your lecture grade is more important (unless you plan on pursuing an MD/PhD program in which case the lab would be just as important.)
Be consistent! You already know this, but it bears repeating. In Fall and Spring semesters, exams fall sporadically over several weeks--rarely will you have one week where you take exams for all your classes (and God help if you do) with a few free days to decompress afterwards. Upon completing one exam, its on to the next--no matter how hard you worked on that second Chem exam, there will be a physics exam to look forward to next Monday, and then a Bio exam on Thursday...not to mention you have to writeup two labs by noon tomorrow. There is always going to be another hill to climb, and of all the challenges ahead of you this year, I believe this is the toughest to overcome--to find the motivation to study for another exam on Monday night when you've busted your butt on another class all weekend. If you did poorly in udnergrad, and it looks like a lot of us did, here is where you need to change your behavior. This is easier said than done, and God knows was I depressed for a while back in early Fall '03, but in time, I came to expect that you just have to suck it up and get the job done, because this is how its going to be for the first two years of med school and getting used to that is part of becoming a good candidate for med school.
Keep an eye towards the MCAT. If you have time, a very useful and efficient study method for the MCAT is to buy a good review book and read over the chapters in the review book covering the topics you are learning in lecture. You want to read over those topics to reinforce specific concepts that relate to the MCAT so that they will be there when the time comes. Remember, the MCAT will not test every concept you learn in these basic classes, only about 70-80%, many of the concepts that you will learn are never tested on the MCAT.
So thats my advice...at least all that I can think of for now. For those of you just starting, you're in for a lot of ups and downs. You will really learn how committed you are to medicine this year and if you did poorly in udergrad, you will probably surprise yourself by how well you can perform if you truly are dedicated. Of course, there are many challenges beyond this year, which I am off to face, and they may indeed be harder, but I believe the first year is always the hardest, so chug away and don't get discouraged...its all gravy once you learn the ropes! 👍
If you have any questions, ask away.
- Junebug
I just completed a yearlong post-bacc pre-med program with all the pre-requisites (Bio, Phys, Gen Chem and Orgo) and have some words of advice to impart upon those of you just starting a post-bacc program this Fall. For whatever its worth, take the following advice with the proverbial grain of NaCl.
First off, dont bite off more than you can chew. Introductory Chem, Physics and Bio might only be 12 credits, but there is a ton of material to learn in these classes (particularly if you've never taken them before), labs almost always involve more work than the paltry one credit they are typically assigned, and you WANT TO DO WELL IN THEM. Very well (think all A's, especially if you have a low ugad gpa). So stick with 12 credit hours your first semester and ace them. If you feel comfortable, take an extra 3 credit bio class in Spring.
How hard this year gets really depends on your own individual abilities, but again, don't try to fill your plate with organizations that you think you have to be heavily involved in and volunteering that you feel you have to conquer this year. How you do academically is far more important this year than which pre-med organizations and how many volunteer hours you amassed. Prioritize, be conservative in estimating how much time you will realistically be able to volunteer and be involved in orgs without adversely affecting your grades.
Don't take calculus based physics. This a mistake many pre-meds make. Calculus based physics is usually much harder than algebra based physics, and most of the people taking the calculus sections are engineering/math/physics majors who you do not want to compete with for grades! Also, MCAT physics questions are designed to be solved using (usually simple) algebra, nothing fancy. So unless calculus based phys is the only option at your school, avoid it.
Try to get into Honors classes. This is really important. Most schools offer Honors sections of almost all the basic science classes (Bio, Chem, even Physics and Orgo. Though I would stay away from Honors Phys unless you are inordinately gifted at math/completing the mental gymastics that physicists do!) I have stressed this before in other threads. Honors classes are so much better than the regular sections for intro classes. They are smaller, taught by full professors, have more engaging activities and though you will not learn 'more,' what you do learn will be more in-depth. Med school admissions commitees are always more impressed with applicants that challenge themselves in hard classes. Getting an A in Honors Chemistry and Biology looks very good on your transcript, and is worth the extra effort required to succeed in these classes. (And if you do decide to take that Honors class, make *sure* you dont load up on too many credits/extracurriculars, because you will have to work for an A in Honors.) And lastly, Honors classes provide excellent opportunities to get recommendations from professors who have really gotten to know you over the course of an entire academic year. This can be a good or bad thing. If you dont like going to class or are not very participatory in class, it will probably mean a poor letter if you even get one at all. On the other hand, if you are diligent, attend every lecture and participate in class dicussions, you will recieve glowing letters that will be far better than what most pre-meds receive. Remember, these letters are forwarded to the pre-med advising office and they write the final committee letter--getting good letters from Honors professors defintely distinguishes your work from the average pre-med.
Orgo is hard! Not in terms of how difficult the concepts are, because they are no difficult to master than some physics topics (in fact, it is not nearly as conceptually difficult as physics), but in terms of the massive amounts of memorization involved. In this regard, it is a lot like medical school--tons of facts (in this case, reactions, reagents, mechanisms, chemical shifts...) that you will (probably, unless your professor is lenient and tests you on theory rather than reactions, but don't count on it) have to just cold-hard memorize. So MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FALL BEHIND IN ORGO, because you will not be able to cram all those facts into your head overnight!
I just completed taking orgo this summer over about 10.5 weeks. I initially planned on taking a physiology class concurrently and also studying for the MCAT, which I had hoped to take this month. After my first week, that all changed. I dropped Physio, pushed off MCAT studying and am now planning on taking the MCAT in April. I feel I'm relatively smart, but I have never worked harder for anything than that A in Orgo. It looks like I'm going to get a B/B+/maybe A- if I'm lucky in Orgo II, and thats even though my numbers are at least 20 points above the class average. In our class this is because some girl is a superfreak (an ode to the late, great, Rick James. He's Rick James b*tch!) crammer, getting 95's on every exam while the class average is a 63. The point is, no matter how 'smart' you are in solving difficult conceptual problems, someone will always be there to kick your butt in Orgo because they can shove boatloads of junk into their head and retain it. So dont slack off.
And a last note on Orgo: taking Orgo over 10.5 weeks in the summer is social suicide. My life (and everyone elses, for that matter) consisted of 1.5 hours of lecture a week, 3 hours of lab, then go home and study for 3 hours with a lecture exam every Friday and a lab exam every other Friday. I lamented signing up for it over the summer initially, but I now think this might have been the best way to approach it. Taking Orgo when you've got other classes to worry about might not be such a good idea, precisely because there is so much memorization. You want to take your exams right after you've read over a chapter because thats when its still going to be there. If you have to go off and read another chapter of Bio or Physics, odds are you're not going to remember which reagent oxidizes an aldose to a aldonic acid (Bromine water) and which oxidizes it to an aldaric acid (Sodium Borohydride....I think....see, I'm forgetting already!) So I recommend taking it in the summer without any other distractions. Of course, this means you will have to put off practically everything else (jobs, internships, et.) to do well, so choose wisely. You may elect to take only the lecture over the summer, with the labs to follow the year following (in your application, or 'glide' year), which might be a very smart option because time is a premium in a 10-11 week summer semester and you don't want to have to worry about lab work when your lecture grade is more important (unless you plan on pursuing an MD/PhD program in which case the lab would be just as important.)
Be consistent! You already know this, but it bears repeating. In Fall and Spring semesters, exams fall sporadically over several weeks--rarely will you have one week where you take exams for all your classes (and God help if you do) with a few free days to decompress afterwards. Upon completing one exam, its on to the next--no matter how hard you worked on that second Chem exam, there will be a physics exam to look forward to next Monday, and then a Bio exam on Thursday...not to mention you have to writeup two labs by noon tomorrow. There is always going to be another hill to climb, and of all the challenges ahead of you this year, I believe this is the toughest to overcome--to find the motivation to study for another exam on Monday night when you've busted your butt on another class all weekend. If you did poorly in udnergrad, and it looks like a lot of us did, here is where you need to change your behavior. This is easier said than done, and God knows was I depressed for a while back in early Fall '03, but in time, I came to expect that you just have to suck it up and get the job done, because this is how its going to be for the first two years of med school and getting used to that is part of becoming a good candidate for med school.
Keep an eye towards the MCAT. If you have time, a very useful and efficient study method for the MCAT is to buy a good review book and read over the chapters in the review book covering the topics you are learning in lecture. You want to read over those topics to reinforce specific concepts that relate to the MCAT so that they will be there when the time comes. Remember, the MCAT will not test every concept you learn in these basic classes, only about 70-80%, many of the concepts that you will learn are never tested on the MCAT.
So thats my advice...at least all that I can think of for now. For those of you just starting, you're in for a lot of ups and downs. You will really learn how committed you are to medicine this year and if you did poorly in udergrad, you will probably surprise yourself by how well you can perform if you truly are dedicated. Of course, there are many challenges beyond this year, which I am off to face, and they may indeed be harder, but I believe the first year is always the hardest, so chug away and don't get discouraged...its all gravy once you learn the ropes! 👍
If you have any questions, ask away.
- Junebug
