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If you are reading this post, there are probably a lot of reasons why you tuned in; however, two of the most likely reasons are: either you are here to judge me or you are here to gain some hope and feel a little bit better about your own application during this cycle. I genuinely hope it is the latter. Note, I felt obligated to write this as I know that there are others in my position now.

First and foremost, I know this post is going to catch a lot of negative attention, but if you are here for the right reasons, then do not get so caught up in all the comments. I am going to do my best to lay out my application and answer as many questions as I can about the DO cycle from someone in my shoes. Please feel free to ask questions or make comments.

Application:
cGPA: 3.59 / sGPA: 3.52 / MCAT (1 and only take): 496 (124 / 123 / 123 / 126) / ECs: over 400 hours shadowing, 600 hours as a TA, 2000 hours as a scribe, 150 clinical and non-clinical volunteering hours, and research with a university research award and pending publication. Caucasian, first-generation rural college student. State University.

Application Submission: October 2nd

Statistics Advice:
  1. SDN is a GREAT source of advice and free tips; I used SDN heavily to ask all kinds of questions, and there are individuals on here who are incredibly intelligent about the cycle and what it takes to make a great application. Equally, there are some people who do not. With that said, take every piece of advice you get with a grain of salt - including this post.
  2. GPA: My GPA is about average. It is not spectacular, and it is not low. I would generally recommend having a 3.5 gpa or higher on both science and GPA. But there are plenty of people who get in with a lower GPAs. I am certain though, if I had a lower GPA, then I would not be attending medical school come August.
    • I believe that there is a balance beam when it comes to MCAT and GPA - they do weigh each other out in some way. But this is school dependent, and incredibly difficult to try and figure out. Some schools are known to favor one over the other.
  3. MCAT: Let me be absolutely resolute here: I would NOT recommend applying with a 496. Did it work out for me? Absolutely. Would it work out for everyone? Absolutely not.
    • Am I at risk of failing or not passing boards? Most definitely. BUT, I KNOW that. And anyone who gets in with my score should know that. If you get in with a score similar to mine, then you should be prepared to beat a statistic and outwork your classmates.
    • You may be asking if I explained my MCAT score anywhere on paper, and the answer is ABSOLUTELY not. I knew my outcome was going to be one of two things. I was either going to get an interview with what I had or I was not. No 'on-paper' explanation was going to change that. So, do not explain it. If everything else on your application is good enough, they will ask you about it in an interview. Again, just my 2 cents.
    • DO NOT APPLY with anything lower than 496. DO not apply if you have a 496 with a subsection lower than a 123. This is just my advice though.
  4. ECs:With a score as low as mine and a GPA just average, my ECs played a critical role in my acceptance and there is no doubt about it.
    • I did not do a single extra-curricula activity to fill space on any sheet. I did them because I wanted to - and I think this makes a huge difference in the long run. If you have time to develop your EC list, my biggest advice would be to do things you find fun, enjoyable, serves a purpose, and that you actually want to do. Nobody cares that you did 20 hours volunteering for underserved children, if you cannot make a single meaningful comment about it.
    • My advice would also be to have at least 8 humanistic activities to list. My next advice would be to have 15 activities to list in general. I listed 16 on my application, and it included my past jobs as well as my humanistic activities.
  5. Writing Advice:
    1. Write everything with a purpose and a goal. I wrote every activity in my application to the max limits. But I did so in a way that was worth something. Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, write something half-tailed. Remember, you are already in the hole with your MCAT score.
    2. Even on jobs at Target, I tied my experience back into medicine. For example, I would write about what I learned at Target or Khols that I could use in the world of medicine. I did NOT write, "Worked here for a summer. It was fun. A Blast. I did 'x' things as my responsibilities'" until the character limit. Again, make it meaningful.
    3. Write proactively write in action tense. No one wants to read a passive, boring blurb about what you got out of being a TA.
    4. YOUR PERSONAL STATEMENT MATTERS. Another one of the reasons I believe I have an acceptance. I did not have some unique story about how hard my life is or what amazing feats I have accomplished. But what I did was write a very deep, real, compelling explanation about why I am doing what I am doing. My pre-med advisor said it was one of the best personal statements that she has ever read in the past 20 years. <- I make this humble brag to make a point; some generic, half-tailed, boo-hoo personal statement is going to get your application thrown out - EVEN if you had a perfect MCAT score. Again, if your MCAT score is low, you do not have that luxury to screw up at any one other point. Make sure your personal statement is the best piece of prose you have ever written.
    5. Make sure your secondaries clearly convey an answer that they are asking for. Do not write about the blue-bird if they ask about the yellow snail. Do not talk about the yellow-snail and how it led to the blue-bird. Also, make sure this is the second best piece of prose you have ever written second to you Personal Statement. Third being your activities on your application.
Interview Advice:
  1. Show up on time with a purpose and a passion!!!!! Honestly, make this a point in your writing as well.
  2. Everything you do in this process, you should do it with a Purpose and a Passion. Pursue excellence!
  3. Be yourself, and answer questions directly and concisely. One of my interviewers told me that he hated when people sat in the chair in front of him and BS'd some answers and was never genuine because he could tell and that person was always rejected. N=1 with that story. But, I know that I am a straightforward guy, and I think interviewers enjoy straightforwardness. As there is not any BS to weed through.
  4. Explain yourself well. Think about what you would say in any hypothetical question, but do NOT prepare answers. You sound boring and like a brick wall to talk to, and no one wants to talk to a brick-walled physician.
  5. I had a couple of friends pull the hardest questions off the internet and some of their own (about 100 in total), and off the wall interviewed me. It really showed where I needed to think about things at.
  6. KNOW your application and you secondary inside and out. Be prepared for everything, and be prepared to tie your application into a question as needed.
  7. Shake hands, make eye contact, and enjoy the day. If you get an interview, then you are there for a reason. Seize the day but enjoy it because...
General Advice:
  1. ...because it might be the only interview you get and there may never be a second. Whether that be because you got in or you did not.
  2. Have a back up plan. I got my MBA this cycle due to how low my score was. My thought was that if I never make it, I have a professional degree. Likewise, if I do make it, I can open my own practice one day and not be completely dumb to business.
  3. Be prepared to reapply (if you so choose). I had my MBA in hand, but I was definitely ready to hit submit WAY before I got an interview.
  4. Study for the MCAT again. I started studying and even paid to re-take it. I was prepared to give this whole thing another go, and you should too! But, you need to do it with a much better score.
  5. Go with your gut. I was told MULTIPLE times on here that I would not get in with my ECs and GPA even with a 500. One high thought of SDNuser told me I would be "DOA" at his school based solely on my ECs. Now, I will give him credit, I WOULD be DOA at his school with my MCAT. Thank god I did not listen to them, because I would not be starting school.
  6. Know you're limited. Yeah. Let's not be dumb. You are not going to Harvard and you are not going to DMU either. Get ready to be at a newer school.
  7. LISTEN TO YOURSELF. Only you know how strong your application really is, but do not lie to yourself about it either.
In closing, I got into medical school based on everything but my MCAT. My MCAT did not get me into medical school. Everything else on my application did, and the way I handled myself in interviews did. So make sure that if your score is low like mine, that everything else on your application is flawless - literally. Understand that this is truly a shot-in-the-dark cycle, and that they truly evaluate the whole person - so be a whole person. I hated waiting 5 months before I got an interview, and I hated waiting 3 months before I knew I got in. High GPA and higher MCATs save you this trouble.

Lastly, if you are wondering at this point. I applied to only four schools - which I would not recommend. I was accepted at two of the four. VCOM and NYIT.

Best of wishes, and good luck!
 

LALAlandDOC

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Hope my decent mcat can help my awful gpa - thanks :)
 
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Osminog

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Wow, interesting to know that there are DO schools that accept non-URM applicants with 34th percentile MCAT scores (and 28th percentile B/B). As new DO schools continue to open, this will probably be an even more common occurrence. One has to wonder how this lowering of overall academic entrance standards will affect the reputation of DOs in the long run.
 
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Wow, interesting to know that there are DO schools that accept non-URM applicants with 34th percentile MCAT scores (and 28th percentile B/B). As new DO schools continue to open, this will probably be an even more common occurrence. One has to wonder how this lowering of overall academic entrance standards will affect the reputation of DOs in the long run.
I expect only marginally, it would be a shot in his own foot if he doesn't perform well enough on board exams to get a decent residency. Just because he got into medical school doesn't guarantee him a residency.

I imagine applying with a low GPA with an upward trend + decent MCAT would have been seen as more favorable than applying with a low MCAT.
Good luck OP, you really did beat the odds that were set against you.
 
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Moocille

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I have a friend with a similar MCAT score to yours OP. She has an excellent GPA (3.9 cumulative and science in both undergrad and grad), she just doesn’t do well on standardized tests, even after taking a prep course. I think she’d do well in med school, despite her low MCAT. Good to see an underdog story that turned out well.
 

Jyggaswoop

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Wow, interesting to know that there are DO schools that accept non-URM applicants with 34th percentile MCAT scores (and 28th percentile B/B). As new DO schools continue to open, this will probably be an even more common occurrence. One has to wonder how this lowering of overall academic entrance standards will affect the reputation of DOs in the long run.
a 496? one has to wonder why then schools that take applicants with such low MCAT's even bother having you take the MCAT, much like carribean schools.
 

Jyggaswoop

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Wow, interesting to know that there are DO schools that accept non-URM applicants with 34th percentile MCAT scores (and 28th percentile B/B). As new DO schools continue to open, this will probably be an even more common occurrence. One has to wonder how this lowering of overall academic entrance standards will affect the reputation of DOs in the long run.
The MCAT is a pretty weak predictor of success in med schools. Thus, SOME DO schools clearly weigh this less than others, clearly evident by this post. I think more and more schools opening will make it so the standards for admission will be less, and this will in the long run, make it so DO's are viewed less favorably by PD's. I have always believed that PD's dislike DO students because DO schools accept students they think should not have been accepted to medical school in the first place.
 
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You saved the best line for last.: 50% yield with a sub-500.
Just wow - congratulations!

Sure you shouldn't have gone into writing, advertising or sales though? It's your hidden talent.
 

Osminog

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The MCAT is a pretty weak predictor of success in med schools. Thus, SOME DO schools clearly weigh this less than others, clearly evident by this post.
According to the AAMC's validity study, the correlation between MCAT performance and academic performance in M1 is 0.56, which is very high by social science standards. The MCAT is a superb predictor of medical school performance, and that's why adcoms tend to put so much emphasis on it.
 

Jyggaswoop

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According to the AAMC's validity study, the correlation between MCAT performance and academic performance in M1 is 0.56, which is very high by social science standards. The MCAT is a superb predictor of medical school performance, and that's why adcoms tend to put so much emphasis on it.
.56 is moderate at best assuming it is like an R^2 value. also i wouldn't go on based off social science standards, a R^2 of .9 would make it a "superb predictor".
 

Osminog

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.56 is moderate at best assuming it is like an R^2 value. also i wouldn't go on based off social science standards, a R^2 of .9 would make it a "superb predictor".
When we're talking about the predictive validity of psychometric data, we have to use social science standards to judge the strength of correlations. In the social sciences, a correlation over 0.5 is generally considered strong. (The standard often applied is that of Cohen (1988), see table here.) You're almost never going to find correlations as high as 0.9 in behavioral science research.

The MCAT is the best single-factor predictor we have for M1 academic performance, and it is a very good one.
 

Jyggaswoop

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When we're talking about the predictive validity of psychometric data, we have to use social science standards to judge the strength of correlations. In the social sciences, a correlation over 0.5 is generally considered strong. (The standard often applied is that of Cohen (1988), see table here.) You're almost never going to find correlations as high as 0.9 in behavioral science research.

The MCAT is the best single-factor predictor we have for M1 academic performance, and it is a very good one.
okay point taken.
 
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Congrats OP on getting into med school! Your writing skills are fantastic and you also have balls to only apply to 4 schools (yet get accepted into 2 of them).

I hope to carry that same energy (applying to 24 schools this cycle LOL).

Good luck in med school!
 
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Vertu

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Congrats OP on getting into med school! Your writing skills are fantastic and you also have balls to only apply to 4 schools (yet get accepted into 2 of them).

I hope to carry that same energy (applying to 24 schools this cycle LOL).

Good luck in med school!
Lmao nice signature
 
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DO2015CA

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What is a 496 on the old scale
 
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According to the AAMC's validity study, the correlation between MCAT performance and academic performance in M1 is 0.56, which is very high by social science standards. The MCAT is a superb predictor of medical school performance, and that's why adcoms tend to put so much emphasis on it.
From the AAMC's validity study:

"Overall, 97% of 2016 entrants with scores from the current version of the MCAT exam did well in their first year and progressed to year 2 without delay, the first hurdle in completing medical school with unimpeded progress. [...] Medical students who entered with scores of 494 and above showed similar, high progression rates."

You're correct that the MCAT is a superb predictor of medical school performance in that students who score at or above 494 are more likely to progress to M2 without delay than students who score below 494. For reference, the percentage of successful medical students in M1 who scored a 496 (OP's score) was 93%, compared to 81% for 493 and 97% for 506 (the average score for 2018-2019 matriculants). Given that OP scored within the MCAT range associated with medical school success, what is the relevance of your comments to this thread?
 

Osminog

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From the AAMC's validity study:

"Overall, 97% of 2016 entrants with scores from the current version of the MCAT exam did well in their first year and progressed to year 2 without delay, the first hurdle in completing medical school with unimpeded progress. [...] Medical students who entered with scores of 494 and above showed similar, high progression rates."

You're correct that the MCAT is a superb predictor of medical school performance in that students who score at or above 494 are more likely to progress to M2 without delay than students who score below 494. For reference, the percentage of successful medical students in M1 who scored a 496 (OP's score) was 93%, compared to 81% for 493 and 97% for 506 (the average score for 2018-2019 matriculants). Given that OP scored within the MCAT range associated with medical school success, what is the relevance of your comments to this thread?
Did you know that there’s more to academic performance in medical school than just progression rates? The correlation I was sharing wasn’t just in reference to progression rates; it was a correlation between MCAT scores and overall M1 academic performance. You can get awful grades and fail a course or two (and remediate) and still progress on time to the next year; there’s a difference between excelling and barely scraping by to progress on time. Sure, a 496 MCAT score doesn’t significantly lower your odds of progressing on to M2 on time—but it does lower your odds of being academically successful relative to your classmates. That’s why adcoms avoid low-scoring students if they can help it, and that’s why it’s disturbing when new DO start scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to applicants’ test performance.
 
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Did you know that there’s more to academic performance in medical school than just progression rates? The correlation I was sharing wasn’t just in reference to progression rates; it was a correlation between MCAT scores and overall M1 academic performance. You can get awful grades and fail a course or two (and remediate) and still progress on time to the next year; there’s a difference between excelling and barely scraping by to progress on time. Sure, a 496 MCAT score doesn’t significantly lower your odds of progressing on to M2 on time—but it does lower your odds of being academically successful relative to your classmates. That’s why adcoms avoid low-scoring students if they can help it, and that’s why it’s disturbing when new DO start scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to applicants’ test performance.
I’ve been trying to stay out of this, but I’ll interject right here for just this point. NYIT was founded in 1977 and VCOM 2002 - while also being the #2 in primary care.
 
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Did you know that there’s more to academic performance in medical school than just progression rates? The correlation I was sharing wasn’t just in reference to progression rates; it was a correlation between MCAT scores and overall M1 academic performance. You can get awful grades and fail a course or two (and remediate) and still progress on time to the next year; there’s a difference between excelling and barely scraping by to progress on time. Sure, a 496 MCAT score doesn’t significantly lower your odds of progressing on to M2 on time—but it does lower your odds of being academically successful relative to your classmates. That’s why adcoms avoid low-scoring students if they can help it, and that’s why it’s disturbing when new DO start scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to applicants’ test performance.
Yes, of course I realize that academic performance is multifaceted, but progression rates are an important metric of academic performance as supported by the study's assertion that M1-to-M2 progression is "the first hurdle in completing medical school with unimpeded progress."

Please provide empirical evidence for your claim that medical students who enter with a 496 MCAT "barely scrape by" and have significantly lower odds of being academically successful relative to their classmates.
 

DrStephenStrange

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Aren't Puerto Rican MD schools averaging 496 MCAT as well though?
 
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From the AAMC's validity study:

"Overall, 97% of 2016 entrants with scores from the current version of the MCAT exam did well in their first year and progressed to year 2 without delay, the first hurdle in completing medical school with unimpeded progress. [...] Medical students who entered with scores of 494 and above showed similar, high progression rates."

You're correct that the MCAT is a superb predictor of medical school performance in that students who score at or above 494 are more likely to progress to M2 without delay than students who score below 494. For reference, the percentage of successful medical students in M1 who scored a 496 (OP's score) was 93%, compared to 81% for 493 and 97% for 506 (the average score for 2018-2019 matriculants). Given that OP scored within the MCAT range associated with medical school success, what is the relevance of your comments to this thread?
In the study you quoted, slightly more than 80 % of students with a 496 mcat passed step 1 on the first attempt. Saying the same thing in a different way, 1 in 5 students with a 496 mcat FAILED step 1 on the first attempt. This is a serious red flag for residencies and will greatly impact students ability to match successfully into their specialty of choice. 1 on 5 is too high to risk the money and time for the student Imo.
 
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In the study you quoted, slightly more than 80 % of students with a 496 mcat passed step 1 on the first attempt. Saying the same thing in a different way, 1 in 5 students with a 496 mcat FAILED step 1 on the first attempt. This is a serious red flag for residencies and will greatly impact students ability to match successfully into their specialty of choice. 1 on 5 is too high to risk the money and time for the student Imo.
There's 2 known SMP's to mid tier DO schools, that have programs that with a 494 MCAT and 3.5 GPA, you get an auto-accept in the med school.
 
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There's 2 known SMP's to mid tier DO schools, that have programs that with a 494 MCAT and 3.5 GPA, you get an auto-accept in the med school.
This is true, and why I often recommend a Post Bac or SMP to pre meds. However, you have to perform well in the program. Why would you want to struggle 1st semester when you can take a Post Bac, perform well and hit the ground running in med school
BTW, the last student I endorsed for a Post Bac, had a 3.7 cGpa as a science major, with a similar mcat, at a local premed mill and wasnt able to hit the threshold for acceptance.
 

Osminog

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Please provide empirical evidence for your claim that medical students who enter with a 496 MCAT "barely scrape by" and have significantly lower odds of being academically successful relative to their classmates.
My point was that there are degrees of success in medical school beyond the bare minimum of progressing to M2 and not flunking out. I wasn't saying that all people with 496 MCATs barely scrape by in medical school.

Medical students with 496 MCAT scores have lower odds of being academically successful relative to their classmates with higher MCAT scores because there's a 0.56 correlation between MCAT score and overall M1 academic performance.

Aren't Puerto Rican MD schools averaging 496 MCAT as well though?
I suspect that the ESL factor plays a major role in this case.
 
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Medical students with 496 MCAT scores have lower odds of being academically successful relative to their classmates with higher MCAT scores because there's a 0.56 correlation between MCAT score and overall M1 academic performance.
I’m curious as to why you’re holding so strongly onto that 0.56 correlation? GPA has a 0.52 correlation to M1 performance. Are you saying that there is a statistically significant difference between them?

Second, in the report that you quoted, it states that retakers generally do 2-3 points higher. Would you be saying these same things if I had 499 MCAT?

In the study you quoted, slightly more than 80 % of students with a 496 mcat passed step 1 on the first attempt. Saying the same thing in a different way, 1 in 5 students with a 496 mcat FAILED step 1 on the first attempt. This is a serious red flag for residencies and will greatly impact students ability to match successfully into their specialty of choice. 1 on 5 is too high to risk the money and time for the student Imo.
I couldn’t find this data in that study, could you point me in the direction of those numbers?
 
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@Goro gives a nice breakdown of the new MCAT. This is from the thread New medical school bridge program(graduate) in the Pre med DO forum thread #132. Check the link http//www.aamc.org/download/493340/data/Isl2018validity.pdf As for what kind of students in the lower percentiles might get...
  • Angus Avagadro
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  • Check out slide #20 in the aamc study. I will show you the table broken down by MCAT for Step 1 pass rate
 
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Yes, very well laid out. At a below a 500, you begin to see some struggle in passing the USMLE Step 1. However, caveat being that of the approx. 200 students in this data with my MCAT score, the top 25% made 230s or better. So, it is not impossible given a strong work ethic.

I agree that not passing the first time is a huge issue, but don't screens school for those at risk with practice exams beforehand?
 
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Goro

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Yes, very well laid out. At a below a 500, you begin to see some struggle in passing the USMLE Step 1. However, caveat being that of the approx. 200 students in this data with my MCAT score, the top 25% made 230s or better. So, it is not impossible given a strong work ethic.

I agree that not passing the first time is a huge issue, but don't screens school for those at risk with practice exams beforehand?
no, because it's a seller's market we don't admit people with red flags. They are crowded up by people with better applications
 
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Goro

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Yes, very well laid out. At a below a 500, you begin to see some struggle in passing the USMLE Step 1. However, caveat being that of the approx. 200 students in this data with my MCAT score, the top 25% made 230s or better. So, it is not impossible given a strong work ethic.

I agree that not passing the first time is a huge issue, but don't screens school for those at risk with practice exams beforehand?
On top of that, having a below 500 score is a risk for failing out of medical school
 
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Yes, very well laid out. At a below a 500, you begin to see some struggle in passing the USMLE Step 1. However, caveat being that of the approx. 200 students in this data with my MCAT score, the top 25% made 230s or better. So, it is not impossible given a strong work ethic.

I agree that not passing the first time is a huge issue, but don't screens school for those at risk with practice exams beforehand?
And 40 of the 200 didnt pass according to the 80% pass rate for that group
 
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no, because it's a seller's market we don't admit people with red flags. They are crowded up by people with better applications
I dont think you understood my question; it was in reference to students already in medical school. I thought most schools required students to take some type of practice COMLEX or USMLE to screen for students who might need more preparation.
 
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And 40 of the 200 didnt pass according to the 80% pass rate for that group
Doesn't add up for me.
So many programs like VCOM and WVSOM, give those with a 494 MCAT with a 3.5 GPA in thier post-bacc program a DIRECT go into thier med school, as in without an interview.

Why would they do that if they are such a "risk" of failing?

On top of that, of the 18 people who are in my class that went this route, a quarter of them are in honors with 3.85 GPA's.
 
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@Goro - I've followed you for a long time and you always said MCAT is a poor predictor of Boards
Moreso, you noted that Pre-Clinical GPA is a better predictor

I'm curious that although STEP scores for sub-500 drops, what about COMLEX stats ?!

I can only assume FAILING BOARDS literally comes from a lack of prep.
 
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80-86% is hardly a risk
Let's not try to impose our own ideas on what a risk is or isn't. The fact is that the MCAT is a way that medical schools can evaluate relative risk. Much in the same way insurers assign risk, medical schools do too. MCAT, GPA, SMP performance, upward trends, are all ways to measure this risk. Perhaps you can argue that the MCAT is not a great reflection of board scores, but if you are only allowed to accept a limited number of students from what appears to be a limitless supply, why not minimize the risk for failure? In this way, a measure like the MCAT gives schools another tool to evaluate this risk.

The MCAT, albeit imperfect, is just one way in which medical school can screen for those who may be at higher risk for failing board exams. Remember, statistics also reflect generalizations about populations, which may or may not describe you.


Let's not be naive either, there are other reasons than just "can they handle medical school" or "to be confident they can pass boards". Why would medical schools have vested interests in minimizing their failure rates? Shouldn't they just accept as many people who are willing to pay? This line of thought doesn't work because the standards and goals set to encourage applications to these medical schools have a lot to do with metrics. ie. Residency placement, board scores etc. Accepting risky students who have the potential to deflate this number, can be detrimental towards the school's public perception. While I may exaggerate here, would you be applying to a school with only a 50% board pass rate or residency match rate? The bottom line is medical school is a business with a reputation to keep. A bad public image can be deadly for someone in the business of trying to make money. If the MCAT can be a tool that can be used as a part of the min-maxing nature of business, so be it.

I also imagine news outlets would be all over a school which has lower board pass rates, I've seen it happen with nurses! When Canada switched to the NCLEX (for RN licensure) the board pass rates took a tumble as students adjusted to the new test. When the media got involved, it directly affected the reputation of the schools that were performing poorly.
 
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Goro

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@Goro - I've followed you for a long time and you always said MCAT is a poor predictor of Boards
Moreso, you noted that Pre-Clinical GPA is a better predictor

I'm curious that although STEP scores for sub-500 drops, what about COMLEX stats ?!

I can only assume FAILING BOARDS literally comes from a lack of prep.
Not paying attention, alas.

It is a weak to fair predictor of Step scores.

< 500 perfomance is a good predictor of failing Boards and/or failing out of med school.
 
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Not paying attention, alas.

It is a weak to fair predictor of Step scores.

< 500 perfomance is a good predictor of failing Boards and/or failing out of med school.
Lol

How can it be a weak/fair predictor of board scores AND a good predictor of failing boards
 

Goro

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Lol

How can it be a weak/fair predictor of board scores AND a good predictor of failing boards
Because once you get to 500 and higher, it's predictive value declines, other than going with the rule of thumb that good test takers are, well, good test takers.

But getting below 500, you see higher rates of Board failures and/or failing out of med school. AAMC just released data on this. My pal @Angus Avagadro just posted the specific link in another thread.

a 496? one has to wonder why then schools that take applicants with such low MCAT's even bother having you take the MCAT, much like carribean schools.
You do realize that these are a handful of people out of the ~> 26000 medical students who matriculate each year, don't you???

Those exceptional people have aced SMPs, are URM, veterans, have very compelling stories, killer ECs, or meet very specific missions of some schools. A few of them might be legacies too.
 
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80-86% is hardly a risk
If one out of 5 students flunked out of med school, would that be too high a risk? Our current stats are around 2.5% leave for academic reasons, the other 2.5% leave in good standing academically, just discovered med school is not for them 20% is very high bu board failure. Especially if a school has a 95% pass rate
 
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DrStephenStrange

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A med school with that type of failure rate would get accreditation warnings ASAP from either COCA or LCME
But it's not like the whole class is filled with 496 MCAT people. So the school will never get 20% fail boards, right?
 
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Goro

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But it's not like the whole class is filled with 496 MCAT people. So the school will never get 20% failed boards, right?
Well, tell that to the med schools whose medians are close to 500...talking to you, LUCOM.

It's true that you don't have a class of 20% failings, but as a cohort, it's cruel to admit them when they have such a high risk for failure, unless they have proved themselves via an SMP.
 
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Well, tell that to the med schools whose medians are close to 500...talking to you, LUCOM.

It's true that you don't have a class of 20% failings, but as a cohort, it's cruel to admit them when they have such a high risk for failure, unless they have proved themselves via an SMP.
Oh I see,

You are saying that regardless of sub 500 MCAT (494-499), the fact that they can get above a B+ avg in these upper science type classes within thier SMP, means they are MUCH LESS of a boards fail risk, than the regular college grad trying to get into med school with a 495 let's say. And that's why schools are comfortable with matriculating these students into thier med school after they complete thier program.

Thanks for clearing that up.
 
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Well, tell that to the med schools whose medians are close to 500...talking to you, LUCOM.

It's true that you don't have a class of 20% failings, but as a cohort, it's cruel to admit them when they have such a high risk for failure, unless they have proved themselves via an SMP.
Tha AAMC study I posted earlier was referring to Step 1 failures. The majority of the bottom third at our school only takes COMLEX. I think you will see a higher board failure rate as schools require all students take the USMLE in the future. Our students in the upper third seem to do just fine on the Step 1.
 

Goro

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Oh I see,

You are saying that regardless of sub 500 MCAT (494-499), the fact that they can get above a B+ avg in these upper science type classes within thier SMP, means they are MUCH LESS of a boards fail risk, than the regular college grad trying to get into med school with a 495 let's say. And that's why schools are comfortable with matriculating these students into thier med school after they complete thier program.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Yup. They passed the audition.
 

Deecee2DO

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According to the AAMC's validity study, the correlation between MCAT performance and academic performance in M1 is 0.56, which is very high by social science standards. The MCAT is a superb predictor of medical school performance, and that's why adcoms tend to put so much emphasis on it.
This is crap lol me and several of my other classmates had sub 500 mcats all are top quartile in our class. OP dont listen to this. I had a 497 MCAT and finished M1 with a 90% average. You have to work HARD, but the MCAT doesnt mean squat. The info you learned for the test youll never use again so dont worry about it. Good luck in med school. The best predictor of success in med school is being in med school and the best predictor of success on boards are pre-clinical grades.