Advice: Non-traditional applicant

[jarwel]

Here is a little background on myself. I am 27 years old and I graduated in 2003 with a bachelor’s degree in Computer Science from a state school in Texas. I didn't start thinking about medical school until my senior year in college. As far as grades go my first three years of college are basically horrible. Semester averages bounce all over the place, anywhere between a 3.4 and a 2.1. To my credit, I did work 30-35 hours a week nearly the entire time, but I can't really use this as an excuse for my poor academic performance. Although it varies from class to class the reason I did poorly is that I skipped a lot of school. I never studied; in fact I didn't even buy the books half of the time. After a while it just seemed like a waste of money since I didn't bother to read them anyway.

I started taking my biology classes my senior year and I've taken the following: Biology I, Biology II, Biochemistry, Anatomy & Physiology I, and Anatomy & Physiology II.

I took calculus based Physics I & II back when I was a freshman.

After I graduated, I left school and took a job as a Software Engineer. About a year and a half later in 2005 and 2006 I went back to school part time and finished up my chemistry courses: Chemistry I, Chemistry II, Organic I and Organic II. I was going to apply to medical school then but I backed out of it for various reasons.

Now, almost two years later, I've decided that I still want to go to medical school and I'm going to try and apply this year. I have not taken the MCAT yet but I am studying for it now and I am hoping to make the May 31st admission. I am still working full time as a Software Engineer and also volunteering 4 hours a weak in the ER of a nearby hospital.

Here is my GPA breakdown.

Weighted (According to my school with +'s and -'s).
Non-science: 3.24
Science: 3.26

Un-weighted(medical school style).
Non-science: 3.15
Science: 3.13

Yes I know, not very good at all.

However, my GPA for my senior year(29 hrs of upper level science courses) is a 3.55.

My BCPM is a 3.60.

I've taken around 30 hrs of math and science courses since I graduated and although I took them on a part time basis, I have a straight 4.0 average.

I have A's in all of my prereqs except for a C in Physics II, but I took this class back when I was a sophomore. I have A's in all of my biology courses except for one B in Anatomy I.

I'm not sure what I can really do to improve my GPA. All of my prereqs and biology coursework are excellent. The only bad grades I have are in Computer Science courses which I don't think should even matter to medical schools. The only way I can boost my GPA is to take a bunch of "fluff" courses and earn straight A's in them all. This would take an enormous amount of time and seems rather pointless to me since I've already done well in all of the important medical school classes.

I spoke with my pre-health advisor and he suggested that I go ahead and take the MCAT. He said that I would be disadvantaged because of my GPA and that I need to score in the 30's to be competitive. I have only taken a few practice tests, but based on the results, I think that a score in this range is certainly possible.

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[Gold 5]

Hi,
Your BCMP is good, do you have an EC's that are giving you PT contact or research? I would agree that taking the MCAT this spring is your next step if you want to play the game. As you mentioned your overall GPA is a bit low for the allopathic schools but if you apply early and broadly, it might work out for you. Another issue you might run into is old grades. Once your BCMP classes are older than 7 - 10 years alot of schools want to see new grades. Perhaps they are worried that you have Mad Cow's disease and you are now stupid who knows?
Since you are new you might not be aware that there are osteopathic schools of medicine (DO) that with a good MCAT might be a better fit. These schools tend to put more emphasis on other factors such as EC's than just straight grades. If the objective of the exercise is to be a doctor, MD or DO will get you there just the same but if you are interested in a MD title then you might need to pick up your GPA via taking more classes or a masters. Masters don't count as heavy as undergrad classes (again I don't make these rules up) but it would show up as it's own line on your AMCAS app. I am assuming that it would take many more undergrad classes to pick your undergrad GPA to 3.5.
In short, take the MCAT, do well and then apply to both allopathic and osteopathic schools. You will get in somewhere

Best of luck

 

[Gold 5]

Two other quick points,

1. Look at the AMCAS site to see how your GPA is calculated. The +/- is the one I believe they use which works to your favor.

2. Sorry but those CS classes do count against you. Not that you will be programming the CAT scanner as a doctor but when you have 5,000 people applying for 100 spots in a class, you get to be very picky.

 

[njbmd]

Your uGPA is low no matter how you calculate it. Having a BCMP uGPA that is 3.60 is still below average. You might want to look into Special Masters Programs like the one at Georgetown. The up side to these programs is that if you do very well, you can earn a seat in medical school. The downside is that they are generally expensive and you HAVE to do well. If you do poorly, you have tanked your chances of acceptance anywhere because in essence, you are taking the same courses as a first-year medical student.

I don't see an MCAT score, which, is something that many SMPs require. Needless to say, you need an excellent performance here too. You need to prepare thoroughly as opposed to just relying on a few practice tests. Some people get a false sense of security and you can't afford to have to retake the MCAT. Good luck.

 

[otldoc]

that will be your ticket to the interviews.
Also, have a very compelling and focused Personal Statement. However, ace the MCAT!
Then, when the interview season comes around impress them by memorizing school's history, your best qualities(3-5) and worst(3), one very compelling story relating to medicine, and a reason for why this school and not the other school down the street. However, you must ace the MCAT!
Best of Luck!

OTLdoc

 

[njbmd]

that will be your ticket to the interviews.
Also, have a very compelling and focused Personal Statement. However, ace the MCAT!
Then, when the interview season comes around impress them by memorizing school's history, your best qualities(3-5) and worst(3), one very compelling story relating to medicine, and a reason for why this school and not the other school down the street. However, you must ace the MCAT!
Best of Luck!

OTLdoc

Unfortunately "Acing the MCAT" is not going to overcome a low uGPA and the OPs uGPA is very low. The personal statement is not going to overcome a low uGPA and it is unlikely that there will be much of an opportunity for interview invitation without raising that uGPA. Since the OP has taken many of the pre-med courses and already had many, many hours of coursework, adding addition post-bacc coursework isn't going to take a long time to see any significant progress. That overall uGPA is very, very low even coupled with your "As" in pre-med work. The undergraduate degree is killing this person. SMP is the best route to take if allopathic is desired. Osteopathic may be an option but a long shot as those schools are fairly competitive too.

 

[jarwel]

I have around 140 credit hours so attempting to boost my GPA by simply taking more classes would only be an exercise in futility. If it is possible to retake and replace my grades I could make a substantial improvement quickly, but I'm not sure what the rules are about this. I have two D's which are doing an enormous amount of damage. Simply replacing these grades alone would raise both my GPAs to around a 3.25. I also have C+’s in really easy classes like Calculus II and Physics II. If I could replace these two grades with A's I would have a 3.3-3.4 for science and non-science GPAs as well as a 3.8 BCPM. I know that the average accepted GPA for medical school is around a 3.6, however I am quite familiar with a gaussian distribution.

In terms of ECs (Extra Curriculars?) I have a decent amount of time as a volunteer in an ER, but other than that not a whole lot. I've consistently held down a 30-40 hour a week job since I was 14 years old. I didn't have a lot of free time for other types of activities.

One area that I might have a little bit of an edge in is my letters of recommendation. Some of the science courses I took had extremely low class averages. I can recall some where the class average was somewhere in the 50-60 range. Because of this it was possible to score three, sometimes even four standard deviations away from the mean. While med schools may only see this as an A+, consistent test scores in this range can really make you stand out as an individual. It is possible that my professors will mention this in my letters. I know this does not make up for a lousy overall GPA, but it may give the committee a more positive view of my academic abilities.

 

[Gold 5]

I have around 140 credit hours so attempting to boost my GPA by simply taking more classes would only be an exercise in futility. If it is possible to retake and replace my grades I could make a substantial improvement quickly, but I'm not sure what the rules are about this. I have two D's which are doing an enormous amount of damage. Simply replacing these grades alone would raise both my GPAs to around a 3.25. I also have C+’s in really easy classes like Calculus II and Physics II. If I could replace these two grades with A's I would have a 3.3-3.4 for science and non-science GPAs as well as a 3.8 BCPM. I know that the average accepted GPA for medical school is around a 3.6, however I am quite familiar with a gaussian distribution.

In terms of ECs (Extra Curriculars?) I have a decent amount of time as a volunteer in an ER, but other than that not a whole lot. I've consistently held down a 30-40 hour a week job since I was 14 years old. I didn't have a lot of free time for other types of activities.

One area that I might have a little bit of an edge in is my letters of recommendation. Some of the science courses I took had extremely low class averages. I can recall some where the class average was somewhere in the 50-60 range. Because of this it was possible to score three, sometimes even four standard deviations away from the mean. While med schools may only see this as an A+, consistent test scores in this range can really make you stand out as an individual. It is possible that my professors will mention this in my letters. I know this does not make up for a lousy overall GPA, but it may give the committee a more positive view of my academic abilities.

For Allopathic schools, they just average out the two. Osteopathic schools allow you to just count the retake for your GPA calculation. My take is that you have potential but the competition is fierce. With Allopathic schools, it will be an uphill battle that can be done in certain situations. If you are from the midwest or south, you might stand a better chance of getting into your state school since the pool of applicants is smaller then say CA. For Osteo schools, more emphasis will be placed on your experiences in medicine coming from shadowing a DO, volunteering, etc. Your MCAT will be critical for both types of school though.

 

[Nasem]

jarwel~

I am not exactly sure what weighted / un-weighted GPA is.... I graduated (also) as a computer science & math major in 2004, and my school was based on A/A-/B+/B/B- etc system and at the bottom of the transcript it says "3.01 overall gpa".... When I did the math individually for each class (meaning an A=4.0, A-=3.7, etc etc), it did come out to exactly 3.01, so I am not exactly sure what the weighted/un-weighted averages you were referring to..

In my opinion, you have a pretty good application, you have taken upper division sciences (assuming things like 300 & 400 level biochemistry, microbio, genetics, etc etc) in which EVERY SINGLE addmission school representative that I have talked to in the past has told me that these classes are looked upon VERY heavily cause they demonstrate the applicant's ability of how he will perform in med school........Bottom line, you ticket into medical school is not your GPA or BCMP, but rather a decent score on the MCATs (30+) along with those upper division sciences

As far as SMP goes, I wouldn't touch an SMP with a 10-foot pole, those are medical level classes and its not exactly easy to walk in and start gettings A's....

Here is another thing, have you concidered DO programs ? Cause your application is very good for all DO programs

good luck

 

[gman33]

If you are interested in DO schools, take the MCAT and then apply to both DO and MD schools. If you are only interested in MD schools, then I'd say you should work on your app before you start applying. You probably need an SMP to have a realistic shot at MD schools. With a good MCAT, your grades should be good enough for some DO interviews. Prepare well for the MCAT. If it's been a while since you've taken the prereqs you may need some extra time. Check out the MCAT forum for some tips.

 

[Luxian]

Hey there,
I was in close to your position. I got an engineering degree and came out with a 3.1 GPA. Plenty of science, just a bad average. I did find it to be an obstacle, but there's little you can do about it. What you can do is make sure that everything else in your package is great.

Get great letters of recommendation. These really help.
Slay the MCAT! You totally can.
Make sure you volunteer and have patient contact. This is key too.
Most importantly!!! Apply widely and early in the season. Don't believe them when they say it's a Nov deadline. You need to get in your materials in August because they start handing out acceptances in October. Don't wait till there are no spots left!

If it's any consolation, I had a 3.1 GPA and I just got into a great school. I applied to 16 places, and got interviews at 4, but all it takes is one, my friend. All it takes is one!